AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Yes, but you'll need to take the 21st Wiz level at level 21/24/27/30. If you want the EDK, you'll need 22 levels so you can take EDK at Wiz21 as one feat and Epic Conjuration at Wiz22 on another.

Same applies to Cleric/Druid/Sorc, mind.

Uberuce wrote:

Yes, but you'll need to take the 21st Wiz level at level 21/24/27/30. If you want the EDK, you'll need 22 levels so you can take EDK at Wiz21 as one feat and Epic Conjuration at Wiz22 on another.

Same applies to Cleric/Druid/Sorc, mind.

i think spell focusses dont require epic casters, just 21st level and lvl9 spells.
So in that regard you can take it as a lvl17 wiz/cleric/druid lvl18 sorc...

-> 19 wizard pre epic, lvl20 wizard somewhere in epic and use your bonus feat for the spell focus. lvl21 wizard at 24/27/30 to take the EDK or EMD.

I was under the impression that you could only take Epic Spells as Wizard Bonus Feats (rather than as a general feat)? Maybe I'm misinterpreting nwnwiki?

You can take them as general feats too, but only on an epic caster level(or epic bonus feat for palemasters).

So only 21 and above cleric/druid/mages or lvl16/19 palemasters will be able to select the feats.

MoshingChris wrote:

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

Dwarf wizzy. Chaotic neutral. No Pale Master. Ready, go.

High Int.

Wizard 1 - 30

Done

Skills? Feats? I don't know what the hell I am doing with a mage.

Depends entirely on what you want. What kind of spellcasting do you intend to do? What school? Do you want to be AC-mage, rely on DR/HP, or just stay away from spawns?

Yush, again you can't simply come here and tell us to make the best build for you. We'll give you some alternatives and you must choose which one you prefer the most. It would spare us from a lot of trouble if you could tell us what you're aiming for.

There are really thousands of viable Wizzy builds and we sure as hell won't type all of them here so you can pick your favourite.

I can help you to pick the schools already: Abjuration, Divination and Conjuration are the most useless spell schools for a Wizzy. Conjuration is naturally good if you're going for EDK.

Elaborate-Elaborate-Elaborate!

belgianbonzai wrote:

i think spell focusses dont require epic casters, just 21st level and lvl9 spells.
So in that regard you can take it as a lvl17 wiz/cleric/druid lvl18 sorc...

-> 19 wizard pre epic, lvl20 wizard somewhere in epic and use your bonus feat for the spell focus. lvl21 wizard at 24/27/30 to take the EDK or EMD.

I epic fail. Forgot about the bonus wizzie 5/10/15/20 feats and was just plain wrong about the epic focus prereqs.

I don't know what the fuck I want. I want a fucking kickass mage, and I don't know shit about making one. Just give me a goddamn good build. I'm making a stormbeard CN dwarf mage. Just give me a kickass fucking build for gods sake.

MoshingChris wrote:

High Int.

Wizard 1 - 30

Done

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

I don't know what the (censored) I want. I want a (censored) kickass mage, and I don't know (censored) about making one. Just give me a goddamn good build. I'm making a stormbeard CN dwarf mage. Just give me a kickass (censored) build for gods sake.

Purebuild wizard always works.

Add a level of rogue in for cheese flavoring, possibly.

camthrax wrote:

Add a level of rogue in for cheese flavoring, possibly.

2 if you're willing to sacrifice a feat for an entire skill progression and evasion (or whatever it's called

)

Or you could just make a Bard 29 with 1 Wizard level? That's a kickass build with Wizard in it.

Nobody's going to do all the work for you. It's your character. I know this is the build topic, but we are a role-playing server. Character concept, personality and background should be connected to the build, and more than just a poor excuse for the build.

You already know your PC's race and alignment (and therefore, a little about his personality). Clearly you have some idea of what you want. Surely, he has some good reason to become a wizard, something that's very unusual and unaccepted in dwarven society?

If you just want an easy wizard build for no effort, click Recommended whenever you level up, and go pure wizard. It will be powerful, because it's a pure wizard.

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

I don't know what the (censored) I want. I want a (censored) kickass mage, and I don't know (censored) about making one. Just give me a goddamn good build. I'm making a stormbeard CN dwarf mage. Just give me a kickass (censored) build for gods sake.

OK. Two part to this post.

First off, the DM side; Tone it down. You can't honestly expect a good deal of help when you start screaming demands and requirements at people as though they were your meaningless subordinates. Check your attitude.

Second part; Here's where I'm actually going to help you.

Wizard 29/Fighter1 with a Dwarf base. Straightforward.
INT at 18 at start.
CON as high as you're comfortable with, without gimping your other stats. Minmax however much you want.

Level up INT to 20, then put all you can into CON.

In pre-epic, go pure Wizard.

You get 7 feats in pre-epic as any other person does, plus 5 for being a wizard.
Extend Spell
Maximize Spell
Empower Spell
Silent Spell
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Toughness
Scribe Scroll (for making money by scribing for others, or to have spare spells like Timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, or other spells on hand)

In epic, you get the ordinary 4, plus three more from Wizard, and one from Fighter
Epic DR 1 (3/-)
Epic DR 2 (6/-)
Epic DR 3 (9/-)
Epic Skill Focus (Discipline)
Epic Spell Focus (Conj)
Epic Spell Focus (Necro)
Epic Spell: Epic Dragon Knight
Epic Spell Penetration

Take your Fighter level at 29 to max out your Discipline.

Only skills you'll really need are Discipline, Concentration, Spellcraft. The rest is meaningless.

It's nothing amazing, but it'll stand pretty damn well for a mage.

Last edited by Yurell on Sun, Aug 30 2009, 10:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Isn't Scribe Scroll free and automatic? Or is that one of the bonus five for being wizard?

...Oop. My bad.

I'm used to making divine casters as of late.

IT's a free feat, anyway.

I'd drop Silent and Epic Penetration (and that free Scribe Scroll) for Epic Enchantment Focus, but that's me. Epic Evocation Focus is nice, too. Depends on what you want to do. They're the disabler schools, so.

You know what, I'm sorry, I'm in a bad mood, and tired of the "1-30" done, replies. I don't know what skills to pick, spells to pick, feats to take, I know absolutely nothing. I've had a rough night and I apologize for taking it out on everyone

Well, the above build is one that equips DR/Regen stuff, casts Premonition and Acid Sheathe, and lets spawns kill themselves attacking you. Well, I guess it's better not to get hit and let other PCs do the dirty work, but that's how it gets by when it's targetted.

There's a huge RP difference between a summoner with a dragon, a necromancer who deals with undead, and an enchanter who has no qualms dominating other people's free will. There are many ways to play a wizard, but you can't go wrong if you go 30, or 29/1. Feats are pretty intuitive, too: don't take fighting feats, take caster feats.

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

You know what, I'm sorry, I'm in a bad mood, and tired of the "1-30" done, replies. I don't know what skills to pick, spells to pick, feats to take, I know absolutely nothing. I've had a rough night and I apologize for taking it out on everyone

As far as spells to pick, you're going to end up with them all anyway from scrolls, just make sure you grab Timestop and IGMS since I'm not quite sure how likely you are to find scrolls for them.

On a 20 Int base, you're really not looking at terribly high DCs either way.

If it were my recommendation, I'd instead go with the usual 12-14 Con, no damage reduction, 30-32 Int base and as much Greater Foci as you can stuff in.

1-30 Wizard (Unf Unf) wrote:

Dex - 14
Con - 14
Wis - 8 or 10
Int - 18
Str - 8 or 10
Cha - 8

All ability points go into Int from here on.

Levels 1-20:

Extend, Empower, Maximize, Spell Penetration, Greater Penetration.
3 x Spell Focus, 3 x Greater Spell Focus.

Enchantment, Necromancy and Evocation are the most obvious choices.

Levels 20-30:

5 x Great Int, Epic Mage Armor, Your Pick (Recommend either Epic Spell Focus in your favourite school or another Epic Spell).

How long does Flesh to Stone last on Amia? PC casting spell on
i) Monster
ii) PC
iii) Summon / familiar

Yurell wrote:

How long does Flesh to Stone last on Amia? PC casting spell on
i) Monster
ii) PC
iii) Summon / familiar

Permanent
Rounds/level
Permanent

...

I think. Don't quote me.

Just a quick question...
Could you be like a super coolio rogue mage and hide while casting if you have silent spell?

Nopes. There's a very short list of things you can do that don't break stealth, and casting of any description isn't on it. Even a mage with AutoSilent and AutoStill III would come out of stealth to wave his or her arms around.

WonWon wrote:

DarkAngelGirl wrote:

I don't know what the (censored) I want. I want a (censored) kickass mage, and I don't know (censored) about making one. Just give me a goddamn good build. I'm making a stormbeard CN dwarf mage. Just give me a kickass (censored) build for gods sake.

OK. Two part to this post.

First off, the DM side; Tone it down. You can't honestly expect a good deal of help when you start screaming demands and requirements at people as though they were your meaningless subordinates. Check your attitude.

Second part; Here's where I'm actually going to help you.

Wizard 29/Fighter1 with a Dwarf base. Straightforward.
INT at 18 at start.
CON as high as you're comfortable with, without gimping your other stats. Minmax however much you want.

Level up INT to 20, then put all you can into CON.

In pre-epic, go pure Wizard.

You get 7 feats in pre-epic as any other person does, plus 5 for being a wizard.
Extend Spell
Maximize Spell
Empower Spell
Silent Spell
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Toughness
Scribe Scroll (for making money by scribing for others, or to have spare spells like Timestop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, or other spells on hand)

In epic, you get the ordinary 4, plus three more from Wizard, and one from Fighter
Epic DR 1 (3/-)
Epic DR 2 (6/-)
Epic DR 3 (9/-)
Epic Skill Focus (Discipline)
Epic Spell Focus (Conj)
Epic Spell Focus (Necro)
Epic Spell: Epic Dragon Knight
Epic Spell Penetration

Take your Fighter level at 29 to max out your Discipline.

Only skills you'll really need are Discipline, Concentration, Spellcraft. The rest is meaningless.

It's nothing amazing, but it'll stand pretty damn well for a mage.

Alternatively take epic skill focus: Spellcraft... Boosts your saves against magic.

Spellcraft's boost is subject to the +20 saves cap, so it's only worth two mythal slots for +2 uni saves, or if you take the fairly reasonable view that they go in priority of Fort, Fort, Fort, Fort, Fort, Will then Reflex, it's only worth 2/3 of a mythal slot for +3 Fort.

Not worth an epic feat, in my Humbledore.

Allright.

I'm "probably" gonna be loathed for saying such, but i'd like to make a Sorc / BG Build.

Also, i'd like to fit in either 2 levels of Rogue, or 2 Levels of Monk. To get the Evasion and the Tumble bonus.

Why? - Becaus i'm sick of loosin' every battle as a wizard. Im "never" prepaired against other players. And happily springs around with PvM spells.

Now. Ive thought something like

26Sorc + 2Bg + 2Monk Or 2 Rogue.

Should i take Monk early levels so i can get Cleave For free, and not waste 2 Feats for Powerattack + Cleave?

I recon they can be used better?

Feats i calculated i would get are
Spell focus + greater spell focus + Epic spell focus
Empower spell
Extended spell
Spell penetration + Greater spell penetration
Still spell

I'm thinkin' of going
Epic Mage armour
Dragon knight summon
Epic Spell focus (conjuration)
Automatic Still spell 1-2-3
And "hopefully" Greater ruin?

Im unsure if this will work or not. I hope so?

Thoughts?

Ps - It's a rebuild

'Rebuild from what?"

I refuse to help, sorry.

I don't think going BG/Rogue is going to give you an edge against wizards/sorcs unless you keep dying from necromancy spells? If you wish to excel in spellbattles against other mages, stock up on abjuration spells (keep scrolls of greater spell mantle stocked up), get a dragon and keep your timestop spell handy. Its not usually a saving throw that takes you out, its usually Bigby's/timestop/IGMS that wastes you and whomever gets that off first after releasing dragon or Mords. The BG might help you save against the dragon fear mind, but mind blank does it better.

BG comes in handy for saves (against necromancers or dev. critters), rogue is not even any good against evocation because, IGMS and Bigby's don't get evasion saves...but str. stats and HP.

Mage battles are paper/scissor/rock exercises. Rebuilds aren't going to win you much of an edge against a 29/1 built mage.

Remember: Mords THEN Bigby. Not the other way around.

Muspelkvist wrote:

Should i take Monk early levels so i can get Cleave For free, and not waste 2 Feats for Powerattack + Cleave?

Why in the world would you want Power Attack and Cleave on that build? Rogue nets you more skills to dump into (a trap setting sorc, maybe?), skills that'll any day be more fun to toy with, and make more sense, than having a mage that is able to cleave the next kobold, after killing the first one... One level 30. <.<

Oh, and keeping in mind that it's a sorc, it might actually matter very little with the rogue levels, as I doubt you'll have that many skill points to distribute. I could be wrong, though, so let the ball stay in the air a while longer.

Dakotaen wrote:

Muspelkvist wrote:

Should i take Monk early levels so i can get Cleave For free, and not waste 2 Feats for Powerattack + Cleave?

Why in the world would you want Power Attack and Cleave on that build?

I'm no builder, but I would guess it's so they can take the BG levels.

Bingo! My fail.

Dakotaen wrote:

Bingo! My fail.

That's okay. It's in there with my monk / bard multiclass >.>

Sorc/Monk/BG is a filthy combo and I hope you'll feel dirty. I know I did. Now it's a 21 Sorc / 9 BG and he can even hit stuff with his sword. I recommend you un-cheese it.

TormakSaber wrote:

I refuse to help, sorry.

Yarp on the second day Dog said "Let they who cheese, milk their own cows"

I've got a Svirfneblin wizard that I'm planning to rebuild and I'm hoping to get some help from the buildmonkeys. I'm planning to go 20 wizard/8 palemaster, though I'd like an assassin level in there for appraise, umd and tumble.
What I'm asking is: would it be possible to do without weakening the overall build too badly?

Also, I'd like to know how I should actually take the levels in both the wizard/pm/assassin build and the wizard/pm build.

Oh, and by the way.

MoshingChris wrote:

Yarp on the second day Dog said "Let they who cheese, milk their own cows"

Blessed are the cheesemakers!

Palemaster's worthless if you're not going 10 levels. Even then it's still worthless to a caster.

TormakSaber wrote:

Palemaster's worthless if you're not going 10 levels. Even then it's still worthless to a caster.

Not going to remove her prettyful bone arm for roleplay reasons so.. I'll just go something like 22 wizard/6 pm? Might get an epic spell if I time the levels right.

No, I mean, "go 18 wizard/10 palemaster".

You go 0, 10, or 16 PM. There's no real middleground.

The only point to Palemaster is being immune to critical hits. If you're not going to have that, do yourself a favor and just play a real mage.

TormakSaber wrote:

No, I mean, "go 18 wizard/10 palemaster".

You go 0, 10, or 16 PM. There's no real middleground.

The only point to Palemaster is being immune to critical hits. If you're not going to have that, do yourself a favor and just play a real mage.

I'm not getting rid of the arm, due to her own personal story that involves her own gelatinous cube familiar, so I will stay 6 pm. I appreciate the help you provided, though.

Um, you do realize that 10 palemaster keeps the arm, too, and gives you the death touch. And also gives you immunity to criticals and sneaks which is the *only* reason it's worth taking and destroying your magic casting capability.

I don't think Torm is saying that you get rid of your bone arm. Instead get the 10th Palemaster level... It would be the better build.

So for your character maybe go 19 wizard/10 PM/ 1 Assassin (Bard would be better imo though). If you don't want the 10th PM level, maybe go 23 Wizard/ 6 PM/ 1 Assassin and nab a couple of epic spells.

TormakSaber wrote:

Um, you do realize that 10 palemaster keeps the arm, too, and gives you the death touch. And also gives you immunity to criticals and sneaks which is the *only* reason it's worth taking and destroying your magic casting capability.

Mhmm, I understand that.

ticket wrote:

I don't think Torm is saying that you get rid of your bone arm. Instead get the 10th Palemaster level... It would be the better build.

So for your character maybe go 19 wizard/10 PM/ 1 Assassin (Bard would be better imo though). If you don't want the 10th PM level, maybe go 23 Wizard/ 6 PM/ 1 Assassin and nab a couple of epic spells.

Yes, yes.. I know. And I would do that if I didn't have my +2 ECL.

would a 5druid/11shifter/14dwd be worth checking out? EDIT: if at all possible?
it would be difficult to get a high wis for some epic shapes AND get con for extra dr, so it might mean picking one over the other... but there doesn't seem to be a set wis score needed undead.

Make it 18 Wiz / 10 PM or 17 Wiz / 1 Assa / 10 PM, otherwise you're shooting yourself in the foot

let me guess, 22 levels for epic dragon/epic conjuration?

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