AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hey, id be all for weakening those animal companions and those darn branches that just keep on giving. The summons got weakened so why not companions

Because they are already squishy as it can get. Considering most enemies cause 40 or more damage.

corypx wrote:

if you gave me the sheet it would be so much faster for both of us

vampires domination gaze: will that be changed at all to be usefull abit or at least last more then like 12 sec if not just fail 100 times.

spectre Shadow attack: will that also maybe see a change?

over all, will all the skills we have see a formula change in terms of damage but most of all DC for success.

Construct shapes, will they get a locked in con so they dont have like no HP

I'm sure I will think of more later.

Can be changed to be useful, yes.

Wraith no lonmger has the Shadow Attack at all.

Construct shapes have locked con. All shapes have locked stats for all 3 physical stats. Some of the caster shapes give mental stat boosts.

TormakSaber wrote:

Some of the caster shapes give mental stat boosts.

ah like the effect of mindflayers +8int and +2wisdom I assume.

I've got a question - Since some of the previously weaponless forms are gaining a weapon, will the properties of the pre-shift weapon merge over like they did before with forms that had weapons?

Tormy Mc Tormerson wrote:

and we're looking at merging held weapons with creature weapons, so unarmed forms no longer suffer.

Yus, yus.

I do not know the first thing about shifters but from the looks of it..I want one.

divinesaint wrote:

I do not know the first thing about shifters but from the looks of it..I want one.

just do what most people do, PM skeletor.

I'm in love... I tried making a shifter, but i got very bored with only being able to shift into Wyrmling, and being virtually useless. And at first i was going to make him into a guy that had almost all forms, then realized most of them sucked. Now, they *censored* rock! Well... to the point of handiness :lol:

So i may consider leveling him!

TormakSaber wrote:

I was trying to invoke my inner Billy Mays and get you excited!

You needed to post everything in CAPSLOCK.

Having said that, I too want to make a shifter.. I wonder if there are any Mulhorandi gods that support druids... Hrm.

camthrax wrote:

Having said that, I too want to make a shifter.. I wonder if there are any Mulhorandi gods that support druids... Hrm.

you dont have to be a druid IC

I would roll one now just for the undead forms.. dat spectre.. great fungineering anyway, though I reckon I'll stick with my human rogue/SD and test out the mauling capabilities of the giant tiger if it goes live

corypx wrote:

camthrax wrote:

Having said that, I too want to make a shifter.. I wonder if there are any Mulhorandi gods that support druids... Hrm.

you dont have to be a druid IC

That's not how I role.

Just want to go on record as saying that Krunk the Underdark Shifter existed before I saw this. Am going for 3 sets of Epic Forms now. Damn fine work.

camthrax wrote:

corypx wrote:

camthrax wrote:

Having said that, I too want to make a shifter.. I wonder if there are any Mulhorandi gods that support druids... Hrm.

you dont have to be a druid IC

That's not how I role.

I wont lie you kind of lost me, whats wrong with not being a druid IC on a class thats not ment to be druid only and was only put that way because NWN was lazy.

Because, I'd have druid levels.

However, this is the discussion for the new shifter forms, so let's leave it at that. I'm happy to discuss my viewpoints on msn, if ya really want to.

Looks interesting.

TormakSaber wrote:

corypx wrote:

if you gave me the sheet it would be so much faster for both of us

vampires domination gaze: will that be changed at all to be usefull abit or at least last more then like 12 sec if not just fail 100 times.

spectre Shadow attack: will that also maybe see a change?

over all, will all the skills we have see a formula change in terms of damage but most of all DC for success.

Construct shapes, will they get a locked in con so they dont have like no HP

I'm sure I will think of more later.

Can be changed to be useful, yes.

Wraith no lonmger has the Shadow Attack at all.

Construct shapes have locked con. All shapes have locked stats for all 3 physical stats. Some of the caster shapes give mental stat boosts.

What does 'locked stats' mean? No bonuses from gear? No bonuses from enchantment?

If I understand this right, base physical stats won't carry over to the shifted forms? (like currently, getting 26 STR and having it carry over to kobold form)

I believe it means the forms have physical stats, and you get hose stats when you shift into the, regardless of whether it was six or sixty prior.

Dwagin wrote:

What does 'locked stats' mean? No bonuses from gear? No bonuses from enchantment?

you can have three kinds of stats in a way, all effected by bonuses from gear /enchantment

locked:the form gives you a set stat
none:uses your out of form stats
enhanced: it adds a set number to a stat but uses your base

Mindflayer forms stats are
Str -
Dex 19
Con -
Int +8
Wis +2

the Str and Con would be "none" as they are effected in no way by the form, Dex is 19 would count as "locked" because no matter what your dex is out of form, its counted as if its 19, and Int and wisdom are "enhanced" what ever your stats were out of form were now get +(x) and like all the types gear and buffs then get added on top.

Magnum Opera wrote:

If I understand this right, base physical stats won't carry over to the shifted forms? (like currently, getting 26 STR and having it carry over to kobold form)

Right. Sorry Dev Critter Kobolds.

TormakSaber wrote:

Magnum Opera wrote:

If I understand this right, base physical stats won't carry over to the shifted forms? (like currently, getting 26 STR and having it carry over to kobold form)

Right. Sorry Dev Critter Kobolds.

well they would still have the feat and could dev crit, so not a full loss.

camthrax wrote:

Having said that, I too want to make a shifter.. I wonder if there are any Mulhorandi gods that support druids... Hrm.

A lot of them do, actually: Anhur, Isis, Osiris, and Sebek all do.

Dunno why Geb and Set aren't, pretty stupid if you ask me.

Probably has to do something with poison, and undeath, at least in Set's case.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

camthrax wrote:

Having said that, I too want to make a shifter.. I wonder if there are any Mulhorandi gods that support druids... Hrm.

A lot of them do, actually: Anhur, Isis, Osiris, and Sebek all do.

Dunno why Geb and Set aren't, pretty stupid if you ask me.

Most excellent. Set supports Undead.

Everyone likes a happy tormy!
These forms seem koolkarrots.
Do they have any weaknesses? They seem almost too powerful naow

Dwagin wrote:

Probably has to do something with poison, and undeath, at least in Set's case.

Poison is natural though, look at Talona, Mistress of Poison and Disease. She's a Druidic goddess. Also, Set has the desert, drought, rot, snakes and poison in his portfolio. He does have evil magic but nothing about necromancy or undeath in his portfolio. True, he does support it and that's probably why he doesn't support Druids. But, meh, look at Rillifane Rallathil, Angharradh, Fenmarel Mestarine and Deep Sashelas. They support Druids and they back undeath (Baelnorn).

Anyway, I think it would be neat if Set supported Druids. There would be a lot of conflict within his people, calling each other heretics and such. And that would make Set happy too, being god of betrayal, hate, destruction, murder and ambition. ::Shrug::

TormakSaber wrote:

Magnum Opera wrote:

If I understand this right, base physical stats won't carry over to the shifted forms? (like currently, getting 26 STR and having it carry over to kobold form)

Right. Sorry Dev Critter Kobolds.

Hmm, too bad. Well at least I can focus on the WIS to get a lot of forms.

On another note, how will equipment enhancements work with shifted forms? Will stat bonuses stack properly now like how normal PCs get them?

Magnum Opera wrote:

On another note, how will equipment enhancements work with shifted forms? Will stat bonuses stack properly now like how normal PCs get them?

They should not work like that.
Most shifters have around 10 on all physicall stats, purely due to the large amount needed in WIS.

If all their physical stats get a boost to 20, thats already +10STR, +10DEX, +10CON...
Letting the items merge as with a regular PC that would mean they can boost each of these stats to +22 (+10 from the shift and +12CAP) with ease... at least now they need a bit of work for it.

So, if I understand correctly, Bioware shifter mechanics will be retained, right? (armor boni merging, stat bonus stacking, etc)

The mechanics of merging won't be affected but what merges may change.

TormakSaber wrote:

The mechanics of merging won't be affected but what merges may change.

that will be nice, seeing how we are assuming people will now go for 5druid 17+shifter (for the kobold/drow and lizardfolk at least) the only thing that will make one more diffrent then the others is gear.

corypx wrote:

the only thing that will make one more diffrent then the others is gear.

- and feats / skills
- and whatever 3rd class taken
-- monk for Unarmed, (improved) evasion, IKD, tumble, discipline...
-- fighter for bonus feats
-- CoT for all shapes
-- rogue for umd, tumble, sneak
-- ...

belgianbonzai wrote:

corypx wrote:

the only thing that will make one more diffrent then the others is gear.

- and feats / skills
- and whatever 3rd class taken
-- monk for Unarmed, (improved) evasion, IKD, tumble, discipline...
-- fighter for bonus feats
-- CoT for all shapes
-- rogue for umd, tumble, sneak
-- ...

if you look I said assuming 5druid/17+ shifter, and I would also assume tormaks making higher then 17 shifter worth it so lets say 20, 5 levels of a diffrent class would make a diffrence but not as much going from a (shield,armor,helm) of 25+ gear to a (shield,armor,helm,rings,neck,belt,boots,cloak and maybe weapon) of 25+ gear

Shifter + Druid levels have always been used to calculate dice numbers for the different shapes' special attacks. I'd assume they kept it that way, because it's pretty much the only handle to reward going high-level in either class.

If i recall correctly the formula rewards taking more shifter levels too.

I know crappy, worthless shifters need some love, but with an update, there will be a huge influx and no one will ever be restricted by race ever again. Remove the racial gates because everyone is everything!

I have a split opinion, neither of which will probably be taken into account, but they shouldn't get too much love, because too many shifters makes for the reputation of RDDs

It's practically impossible for shifter to become the next RDD. Seriously.

yeah most people will not like the shifter classes even when it is fixed.

corypx wrote:

yeah most people will not like the shifter classes even when it is fixed.

I don't think that's a fair comment at all.

Yurell wrote:

corypx wrote:

yeah most people will not like the shifter classes even when it is fixed.

I don't think that's a fair comment at all.

people like being diffrent and custom, shifter you are the same as the next, you could be a master of longsword but your form will use the weapon thats superglued in its hand, you can only change your looks with paying DCs and when they are done with it you will have tons of forms worth useing.

thats why I dont think some people will like shifters, you lose the major custom aspct that you have with other non-shapechanges classes.

Assuming ALL classes, can be built into something reasonably okay, people will only play Shifters because they'd play them anyway.

Remember, you have to be comfortable roleplaying it too. Roleplaying a freak, doesn't get you a great many friends, that's why there's not a million palemaster/bard/RDDs around, despite the build being quite a strong contender.

People whom choose to roleplay a character just for the build, will end up with a cardboard cutout PC and quickly get bored of it. Shifter fads will come and go. Those whom play shifters and enjoy it, will still be around.

Quote:

Roleplaying a freak, doesn't get you a great many friends, that's why there's not a million palemaster/bard/RDDs around, despite the build being quite a strong contender.

... I... uh...

Well. You're wrong, heh.

oops? are there a million palemaster/bard/RDD's around then? Guess I don't run into them enough XD

soundofastream wrote:

oops? are there a million palemaster/bard/RDD's around then? Guess I don't run into them enough XD

No, they just aren't a good build.

Oh, I thought you meant "Palemasters and RDDs" by the slashes. not the build Bard/RDD/PM. Which as said isn't entirely very good, and very easy to do badly.

Might I add we're not going to overpower them (or try to), just make them better then they are now.

Which means that the unused shapes get pushed up to be on par with the used shapes, mainly.
Basically, you could say, a shifter will stay as strong as he is now. Only, they will get better through versatility, due to the fact that you will have a ton more choices in shapes to pick from and be usefull. (not just gargoyle/kobold/flayer/risen lord/dragon)

My first character was an attempt at shifter, because I love the idea of being a jack of all trades. I quickly scrapped him however upn finding him to be pretty much blah for a new player.

Who know's with these changes I may even consider going shfiter now.

this is good.

A Shifter is never late.

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