AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Last question about this, though i am trying to decide between QPR's build and Pigeon's.

What would a dev critting AA look like? :twisted:

Depends if you want epic dodge...

The AB goes down slightly, survivability goes up dramatically...

As for Dev Critting AA... WTF would you need it? You're doing 35-40 damage per hit, guaranteed hitting. And The damage on bows only goes to +5 mighty so 22 str would be the max EVER needed I beleive.

Dev Critting AA, *giggles*

Dexterity - AC, Epic Dodge, and AB out the yaz!

Also remember with 13 rogue, if you are close enough you will do 6d6 sneaks, pretty enough to kick ass alright.

The draw of a dev crit AA is no one expects it coming, generally.

Those that except devcrit will most likely have their saves around 40 anyway. Though I'd like to see a mage who thinks is save and gets sniped this way from a hilarious distance.

Ya, but the loss of AC dramatically doesnt make up for it I think, the damage doesnt go up that much.... Id take the like extra 12 AC and epic dodge over the chance of dev crit...

You have a 20 crit weapon thats x3, rule of thumb is no dev crit, You hit to often with AA's massive AB, you dont need it I think..

With My warhammer and 46AB dual wielding dev crit doesnt even trigger often enough to justify the 4 feats.

Just my 2 cents.

You have to admit this would be so entertaining...
Dev'ing AA sneaks up behind mage with no fort.
Mage has no idea that Dev'ing AA exists, let alone is behind him.
Dev'ing AA crits on first shot, mage dies.
Mage says "WTF was that?"
Dev'ing AA says "I shot an arrow into your chest and it exploded?" Or "I busted an arrow in yo' skull"

But anyway, i say that archers should be able to get Dev without the 25 str. You'd think they'd know where to hit you. (massive AB means you probably *censored* rock with a bow)

hendrack wrote:

Those that except devcrit will most likely have their saves around 40 anyway. Though I'd like to see a mage who thinks is save and gets sniped this way from a hilarious distance.

They Still will die fast and be unable to cast at all...

3 attacks a round
4 attacks with haste
5 with that archer feat thingy

Id say over 90pct hit rate easy... with 30+ damage a hit...

Wont this rape a mage anyway.. 12 secodns max of life (2 rounds)
And the mage prolly cant even cast a spell taking that much damage vs. their concentration check.

I've never played an AA but dev crit seems a waste...

jafman30 wrote:

But anyway, i say that archers should be able to get Dev without the 25 str. You'd think they'd know where to hit you. (massive AB means you probably *censored* rock with a bow)

Same case can me made with any weapon, take your keys drive away fast. Lets not give a super powered class soemthing else to kick ass with!

And Pigeon, where would they lose 12 AC? I meant having dex still as your main ability, but start with 16 or so (including wood elf stats) and start with 20 str, take bard/rdd/sorc for that +4 str, then take one great str, get dev, and still have your dex ac and that wonderful ab. But this probably isnt what im going to do, i just wanted to see whatcha guys'd say

And pigeon, i wasnt saying to add it

But just saying it would make sense if an archer had it, because then everybody would be making AA's like crazy!

Before I'd do a devcritting archer I'd do a caster cleric25/bard2/aa3 and some epic spell foci for utter ouch. Enough dmg and cleric spells on top of it. Yummy!

Dev Crit (longbow): Hawt

Dex based: Simply better

Mr.Opusty.. it would still be dex based, just with a 25/26 str :lol:

UR like missing the point bro.

This is the build topic. . .RDD automatically disqualifies it from consideration.

MoshingChris wrote:

UR like missing the point bro.

This is the build topic. . .RDD automatically disqualifies it from consideration.

Haha, alright i'll take that as an answer. And i was just trying to push the point that it can be done whilst still being a dexer.

Quote:

And the mage prolly cant even cast a spell taking that much damage vs. their concentration check.

It's not hard to get ~70-80 concentration.

Regardless a mage would have 2 rounds... 1 of which he is in shock from taking 40+ damage a hit from a archer. Still I just dont think it would be worth the dev crit.

The main problems with dev on the archer is that A) It takes a lot of feats. And B) Unless focusing more on str (which wouldn't be fun!) You would get a 32 dc for dev, which means only those with a veery low fort would fail it.. *shrug*

In terms of build survivability, the dex-based archer is always gonna be better than the devcrit archer. Higher ac, higher ab, epic dodge? I'll take it over the slim chance of a an auto-death any day.

However, it's entertaining to watch a healpot chugging twit roll a one on dev save and auto-lose. I imagine it would be twice as satisfying if you could do it from half the map away.

I'd probably have to afk for ten minutes just to get over the giggle-fit.

I dont think you can heal pot through an AA.... the AB Damage is to high, 200 points of damage a round without hitting one crit...

Would be easier sticking your head between your legs and sucking ass for air if you wanted to survive... The AA kill plan is bigby scroll/spell.. running headlong into them and hope your damage beats theirs.

I remember a build far down into the depths of this thread, Bard/AA/Fighter that had melee and ranged weapon focus, with one of them having dev-crit, which seemed pretty cool and actually more than a trick build. Of course ranged-wise, it's subpar when compared against pure AA's, but IMO more than makes up for it with a competent melee presence.

AA + Point blank shot = Melee..... Right?

If you are an archer, you want to be as far back as you possible can be. ranged combat is all about the target not being able to hit you.

An AA with 13 rogue levels for epic dodge gets 6d6 bonus being up close and would still have good enough AC me thinks, you can fall back if you need to, but you'd have 50 AC I think and epic dodge, good enough for pvm.

IIRC, Point-blank shot only negates the AB penalty you receive while plinking branches while in melee range. Your enemies will be able to deliver AOO's to you, so that's what your Epic Dodge is gonna be for (that and when you're distancing from a charging enemy).

Having that melee option in exchange for some ranged power still seems pretty handy (KD/IKD?), especially in tight spots.

I'm thinking of making a druid character, and part of me wants to go with pure Druid. But what are the benefits and downsides? Will I be screwed when hunting alone if I don't mix in something? If so, what?

I only played a druid in the single player game years ago, and I seem to recall them not being...that strong.

Get zen archery, and you can even aim for dragon shape if you want. As for not being that strong, Druids can solo the world!

You have your spells, a kickass summon, an AE'd pet, and a summon monster IX/EDK. You wont have any trouble with anything I dont think.

If you want to mix there is a few options.

You can take 1 ranger, for spot/discipline at level 30

Take 3 levels of monk for AC (Get pointed at and jeered cheese)

There are other options of course, I personally think they are the most viable.

This is the build I used, provided by The Cobbit via Ruce.

Wood Elf

STR 18 > 26
DEX 18
CON 10
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 8

Fighter 9/Bard 1/AA 10 > Fighter 12/Bard 2/AA 16

(Fighter)
1: Point Blank Shot / Power Attack
2: Weapon Focus Longbow
3: Weapon Focus Longsword
4: Weapon Spec Longbow
6: Weapon Spec Longsword / Cleave
8: Improved Crit Longbow
9: Improved Crit Longsword
(Bard at 10, UMD/Tumble dump)
(AA)
12: Great Cleave
15: Rapid Shot
18: Called Shot
21: Great STR
Fighter 24: Overwhelming/Devastating Crit Longbow
AA 25: Epic Weapon Focus Longbow
Bard 27: Overwhelming Crit Longsword, skill dumps
Fighter 29: Epic Weapon Spec Longbow
AA 30: Dev Crit Longsword

It's not the most efficient build ever, and it's actually 15 AA not 16 with one extra fighter level in epic. But, I've never played a character that got so many WTF's from other players. Dev with your bow usually get's you a WTF tell or party chat shout out, but when you do it again with your long sword and tower shield out. . . well. . . you're gonna have your fair share of requests to bare someone a child.

Personally, i find that build would be -very- fun. PvM would be probably archer mostly though.

@Ideatahs,

Pidge got most of it. Full Druid or 29/1 Druid/Ranger split would be best, the latter allowing you to get Dragonshape and EDK+Conjuration ESF (if you go with subrace with WIS bonus), + dumps. I think you can also nudge in a tumble-dump, but I forget.

Druid 28/rogue 1(monk1)/ranger 1
Druid 26/monk 3/ranger 1

Rogue gives umd, monk gives evasion at level 1

I like the druid 26/monk3/ranger 1, for powerbuild if you dont cheese

Rucey has a 29 druid/1 ranger i beleive.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Druid 28/rogue 1(monk1)/ranger 1
Druid 26/monk 3/ranger 1

Rogue gives umd, monk gives evasion at level 1

I like the druid 26/monk3/ranger 1, for powerbuild if you dont cheese

Rucey has a 29 druid/1 ranger i beleive.

Imo 28/1/1 Druid/Ranger/Tumble or UMD-dump looks like the best split. As I recall, they'll eventually shutdown monk AC in shifted form. Also, I believe that's the split for the Double Dragon setup.

drow morningstar WM.
18 str
14 dex
12 con
8 wis
14 int
8 cha

how do I go about this?

Go bog-standard 10 Fighter/2 Tumble-andor-UMD dump/16 WM.

Magnum Opera wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

Druid 28/rogue 1(monk1)/ranger 1
Druid 26/monk 3/ranger 1

Rogue gives umd, monk gives evasion at level 1

I like the druid 26/monk3/ranger 1, for powerbuild if you dont cheese

Rucey has a 29 druid/1 ranger i beleive.

Imo 28/1/1 Druid/Ranger/Tumble or UMD-dump looks like the best split. As I recall, they'll eventually shutdown monk AC in shifted form. Also, I believe that's the split for the Double Dragon setup.

Double dragon requires 19 start wisdom and 30 levels. So Ffolk or Mulan are your best bets.

Edit: Also while it may seem awesome the Double Dragon is nearly useless on Amia. Very few places where one dragon operates freely let alone two. You'll get more use out of your uncrittable DR/- whore earth elemental.

If I'd had my time again to do my Druid, I'd have gone Druid28/Rogue1/Ranger1. It's a Druid29/Ranger1, and while the crossclassed Tumble isn't that bad, given the 700HP/62AC it already gets, the lack of UMD is a pain in the arse.

I have a question regarding Monk/Druid type outfits. I've got a 26th level svirf Druid and am looking for a few minor classes to add for the final level or two (e.g., ranger, rogue, monk, whatever works).

I assume, when the new changes kick in, monk AC will be disabled but that won't affect a level or two of monk taken anyway. Are there any other major penalties that will be given or is that it?

RP wise, she's LN and this alignment is compatible with both Callurduran and Segojan, plus Callurduran has an order of Deep Stone monk order so it appears in this instance, there's no incompatibility RP wise (one of those rare exceptions in FR).

Build wise, one gets some cool feats (evasion for instance) and skills like hide/ms + discipline which to me, helps with the earthy RP in an Underdark setting. It also helps a bit on saves, etc.

So two questions really:

1. Would DMs frown upon the RP justification for this? and
2. What penalties would there be?

20 percent penalty for Multiclassing.

If you are planning on taking 2 monk you may aswell take 2 Rogue on that build and net yourself a few points in UMD and more skillpoints.

Think Id go 2 rogue, dont know how many skill points you have.

1 monk/1 ranger if you want discipline/spot.

Ranger also gives you a feat (albeit from a limited selection)

No one really cares about Monk until you take 3 levels of it btw.

My initial plan was:

26Druid/1ranger (level 27)/1rogue

The ranger netting a bonus feat on that level + skill pts into discipline (one of the druid's big weaknesses). Going toe to Toe with a warrior is going to get a Druid killed though, so I often think its simply better to hide and let the big critters do the talking. Its good for when you're running away, not to get KD'ed.

The rogue nets UMD/tumble or hide/ms in the skill pts side + sneak attack d6 (with Improved KD already, this works well).

But 2 rogue might give a different edge with tumble and UMD...dunno...with double the skill pts + evasion...

More I think about this...the more 2 Rogue seems best...since skill pts aren't banked up (she heals for a whopping 71 pts per basic healkit though!).

Thanks for all the tips and hints. I think I'll go full Druid then, for the kickers.

I didn't think Dragon Shape was possible to recieve within level30 though? Is it worth it?

Discipline > Evasion. Ranger/Rogue or Monk/Rogue would be the way to go.

True, true..buuut, 5 tumble = 1 more AC pt + not so many attacks of opportunity or hide/ms a little higher is good for a svirf to hide from most of those pesky blind as a bat warrior dev critters. If a dev can handle both a prismatic dragon + Rock + third animal + disabler or damage spells on top, she'll have no chance of out running them forever, so best to cornersneak...plus UMD gives you just enough arcane buffs to bump up your other buffs...

The Druid spellcaster doesn't have Greater Sanctuary (unless on a scroll) so you won't last long without a back up plan.

soundofastream wrote:

True, true..buuut, 5 tumble = 1 more AC pt + not so many attacks of opportunity or hide/ms a little higher is good for a svirf to hide from most of those pesky blind as a bat warrior dev critters. If a dev can handle both a prismatic dragon + Rock + third animal + disabler or damage spells on top, she'll have no chance of out running them forever, so best to cornersneak...plus UMD gives you just enough arcane buffs to bump up your other buffs...

The Druid spellcaster doesn't have Greater Sanctuary (unless on a scroll) so you won't last long without a back up plan.

Well yeah, that's why you still take 1 Rogue/1 other, so that you still get Tumble, UMD, and some other stuff.

Ranger: Extra feat, +4 Hide/MS outdoors
Monk: Evasion, Cleave, Monk UBAB while shifted (I think)

Either seems pretty nice for your setup. Monk boni are awesome by themselves for a shifting character, but the Ranger level gives you a feat slot that's been deprived of you thanks to ECL. The outdoor stealth boni would be pretty useful as well.

Ideatahs wrote:

Thanks for all the tips and hints. I think I'll go full Druid then, for the kickers.

I didn't think Dragon Shape was possible to recieve within level30 though? Is it worth it?

Yes, but I'd dispute that there's much of a sacrifice to be made; due to Amia's spell changes a Druid with Great Spell Focus Evocation and the superultrawhored WIS is already an extremely formidable asset to a party.

Someone joining my party said they'd heard of my uber new Druid build when I was levelling it up. There is nothing special about Kelbrun at all at that point; I was just casting the good disabler/offensive spells that they all have, albiet with +2DC compared to the folk without Great Focus. I say +2 since there's items with Evo focus around.

What Dragonshape does is give the Druid the leatheriness to tank for his pets, rather than vice versa. It's only at very high epic that the critters are nasty enough that it becomes necessary to do this; before that point you're better off hanging back and dropping Sunburst and Earthquake.

If I'd liked his RP at all, I'd still be playing him.

Hmm...Magnum, you've just thrown me back to my original plan...guess I'll go 1rogue + 1 either ranger or monk...got a short time period in which to decide I guess since, I'm only intending to explore the Underdark on B rather than go to epic uber spot to level up. I did the last level by mushroom farming and brewing and gathering 'shrooms lol...its amazing how 1xp rats add up too hehe!

I'd personally go Druid26/Rogue1/Ranger1, if that helps.

I'd do a combination of rogue/monk. UMD, tumble, and UBAB progression is just too good to pass up if you plan on wildshaping and actually doing anything.

Do the human subraces retain the human skill bonuses?

The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Who is online