AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

What Tormak said!

I'm still rather new at this and so I have a minor build question that I need help with taking the Amian crafting abilities into account. I'm working on creating a Monk 12/Wizard 6/Pale Master 12 build and I'm not sure if it would be better damage wise to just stick with unarmed and craft some nice monk gloves or single wield a kama (won't have the room for three extra feats to properly dual) seeing as I'll be able to flame weapon, keen and GMW +2 myself. I'm sure there is some method to figure this out on my own but I'm not sure how to do it and any input would be helpful.

It would be better for power to scrap that.. Keen kamas are not hard to find, nor is keen edge wands if you had to have it. Kamas are slashing, and +3 or +4 kamas arent either. Sure strikes are cheap. You can use flame weapon scrolls..

If you really have to have pm, I wont touch it anymore, I find it a blargh class.

Seems you want some spells, Better AC, and monkedness

27 cleric/3monk
23 cleric/3 monk/4 fighter
23 cleric/6monk/1 ranger

If you can skip the spells
20 monk/10 rogue -dex
20 monk/6sd/4 fighter - dex
20 monk/5fighther/5sd - dex
25 monk/5sd

Monks have enough AC already, just 14 dex and 14 wis, can give them 55 ac... Add Cleric in there and its a beast... thought slightly cheesy, not as disgusting as a devout worhispper of (insert diety) Who happens to study arcana and be nearly a lich...
I dont know any monk orders that would sponsor that, though im not a pro at lore of course.

I'm afraid the PM is what I'm building the character around. I've never been huge on it either but I'm trying to diverge from my comfort zone with this char. And I agree with you on the odd setup of devout follower with arcane knowledge who is nearly a lich. I had in mind to make him a monk (of an evil order obviously) coming on in years and realizing his mortality breaks with the order to pursue lichdom, which would require his study into wizardy followed by becoming a pale master, that the closest I could get him to lichdom.

It's meant to be a mainly RP char but at the same time I want to be able to deal out some damage. So I'm mainly just curious if given the abilities to self buff somewhat would a kama deal more damage or would just sticking with fists since spell craft will be maxed out and I could add any of the available abilities onto monk gloves myself?

Can't keen and flame weapon a fist.

And if using fists, and not takign at least 16 levels of monk you fail

Why not take the 16 Monk, then the minimum wizard needed, and the rest PM? It sounds to me that the major focus of the build is not to cast spells, but rather revolves around the characters search for immortality. This is probably the one and only case I'd condone the PM Melee build. Because your character is specfically looking to extend his life, rather then pursue arcane studies.

Still, you'll likely get a lot of flak about the build anyway. Though a PM with graft and monk unarmed skills could work very well. As wouldn't the unarmed skills gained increase the DC of dodging a touch attack?

You would need to take the final level of monk at 30 to get tumble/disciple/hide/ms all that jazz needed ot be anyway decent.

The reason I had so many levels in wizard was me trying to justify his ability to go PM, I realize that it only requires level 3 of arcane spell casting but that seems light to me for someone who isn't really initially a caster. I figured if his intention was to become a lich to avoid death he'd have to know a fair amount of spells. Ideally the abilities from PM would be to hold off death long enough for him to find ways to become a lich, but this is going more into RP than build now.

I think my answer has been given and generally he's going to be screwed both by being rather gimped either way and people hating him for what he is both in character and out, lol. I'll do some trial runs experimenting with all the different suggestions and just see which plays out better for me in SP and then try to commit it to Amia, thanks.

Procyon02 wrote:

The reason I had so many levels in wizard was me trying to justify his ability to go PM, I realize that it only requires level 3 of arcane spell casting but that seems light to me for someone who isn't really initially a caster. I figured if his intention was to become a lich to avoid death he'd have to know a fair amount of spells. Ideally the abilities from PM would be to hold off death long enough for him to find ways to become a lich, but this is going more into RP than build now.

I think my answer has been given and generally he's going to be screwed both by being rather gimped either way and people hating him for what he is both in character and out, lol. I'll do some trial runs experimenting with all the different suggestions and just see which plays out better for me in SP and then try to commit it to Amia, thanks.

PM gives wizard spells to remember. So if you substitute your Wizard casting for PM, equals up about right. That min for PM makes sense given your character is making a hasty search. Most wizards aren't looking to extend their life straight away, but your monk enters study with that aim, which makes taking the min wizard seem reasonable to me.

IIRC though, PMs have slower spell progression compared to wizards; 17wiz =/= 14pm/3wiz.

or maybe the CBC is just wrong.

You get spells every other level... but you wont be a predominant caster... ur a meleerer without ab... and a little bit more ac

PMs get spell slots every odd level as if they'd levelled up in wizards, but recieved no free spells, no familiar progression, and worst of all, no caster levle advancement. A level 10 wizard/20 palemaster casts as a level 10 wizard.

Much to Reinard's dismay.

Thats what I meant...

You will have waht +6 or 8 ac from the pm levels.

You could be Str based and have about what upper 50s AC. No dev crit no ab and ok damage (if you hit anything)

Or could be dex based and have upper mid 60s ac? and no ab, epic dodge, or damage....

If you must do it go ahead.

You will think the build is good as you level the monk levels, then realize all of a sudden... omg what do I do.

I think you are porably looking at 13 BAB +5 for epic +12 (str or dex) + 5 gloves.. Right?

TormakSaber wrote:

PMs get spell slots every odd level as if they'd levelled up in wizards, but recieved no free spells, no familiar progression, and worst of all, no caster levle advancement. A level 10 wizard/20 palemaster casts as a level 10 wizard.

Much to Reinard's dismay.

Question old Saber.

Why hasn't Amia gone the route of a few other servers i've played on and counted PM levels to the CL of Necromancy spells?

It's been looked at, but rewriting a whole school's worth of spell scripts didn't look too pretty in terms of work/result.

Wouldn't you just have to make..

int nCasterLevel = GetCasterLevel(OBJECT_SELF);

into something like..

int nCasterLevel = GetCasterLevel(OBJECT_SELF) + PM GetLevelByClass mumbo-jumbo;

Admittedly I can't do scripts, just had a look in the Toolset right now and it didn't seem so complicated. The variable is set before each spell is calculated, which means there is exactly one place times 19 Necromancy spells where you'd have to alter something. If I'm on the right track here then I'd even do it myself... <_<

It can't be that simple. If it was, surely it'd have been done by now?

This is a Character Build Forum, not a Scripters Forum, go do that shit somewhere else! GARH

Anyhow Im startin to get that itch, nobody wants things looked at today?

Its a pertinent question pertaining to builds so it belongs here. Anything Imho that gives PM's another option besides XPM XBard XFighter or 20 Wizard 10PM.

The best pm, option dont do it!

I met one pm, who acted like (i thought they) should. Stinks, no care for life, nasty breath, talked about their hacking away of their arm, or there arm rotting off...

Mehbe, someone can rp a severe case of leporusy? (buthcered that)

Just need some quick advice on pre-epic feats on my monk:

So far i have Luck of heroes, Blind Fight, WF:fists, and Dodge as general feats in addition to all the monk ones. On level 12 I will take imp crit, but that leaves me 3 feats (9, 15 and 18) I dont really know what to do with. I guess i will take great fort on one of them, higher saves is allways good, and perhaps burn the last two on toughness for extra hp and a skill focus maybe. Or called shot, though i doubt i will get to use it much.

So, any feats i have overlooked that is vastly better for a str monk than those I listed?

Disarm and Improved Disarm.

MoshingChris wrote:

Its a pertinent question pertaining to builds so it belongs here. Anything Imho that gives PM's another option besides XPM XBard XFighter or 20 Wizard 10PM.

I know a couple. But they add a whole new level of cheese and powerbuild aspect to it, which even goes beyond what has been posted in this thread.

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

Disarm and Improved Disarm.

That would have been quite cool and fit my char quite well. Only problem is that he doesent have the required int score for it.

Which takes me back to scratch. i will take great fortitude at level nine, but have no idea for level 15 and 18.

So, I'm 16/3 Cleric/Monk.

I should take Monk as my final pre-epic level, yes? Takes longer to get 9th spells back, but am I right to think it means +1 Saves and AB? Do I read the progression right?

Yeah, thats right Iron. Go to 16/4.

As a cleric with extended Divine Power, you'll actuallly be better with only 3 base attacks, not four.

4 Monk Levels wont give 4 attacks though.

Oh, right, I was thinking the 16/4 with full BAB. My bad. 4 monk then, yes.

Ok I has a build I could use a bit of help with.

I'm going Rogue/Assassin/Shadow Dancer

And I have an AC problem. My AC is 21 and I'm wearing light armor (leather armor +1) but if I go with a higher AC armor without getting heavier armor feats it won't help any, cause I'm also using my Dex bonus and Tumble bonuses.

So the question is: Is there a way to up my AC without using magic items or waiting til I gain 5 or more levels? Is there a feat that can help or something?

Where fullplaters get a lot of their AC immediately, dexers have a bit of a curve as they level of their dexterity and get dexterity boosting items. Don't worry, it's going to go up as you level and move into better gear and higher dex scores. You're only in leather +1. Don't sweat it. A full plate tank in full plate+0 and tower shield+0 is looking at 10 + 9 (8+1 dex for armor. Might not even have that. Hell, might have -1 from 8 dex or -2 if Tuigan!) + 3 Tower shield for 22 AC. But his dex isn't going to go up, so at this point he's relying entirely on magic items to boost his AC. You're not immediately going to hit his stride but you'll catch up, surpass, and then cement your role with Epic Dodge.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_class

Well, you should find every source of AC from that.

I'll toss this in here just because nobody i've seen plays one and i -might- make one. What do you guys think of a 11bard/2rogue/17AA? One thing: I dont want cleric cheese, i want these classes :wink:

Wood elf sound good so i can get a easier 5 strength modifier?
Was thinking starting stats..

8 (10) str.
18 (20) dex
10 (8) con
8 (8) wis
12 (10) int
14 (14) cha
--->() is from racial scores

I think thats what i tested it with, maybe slightly different.

Any ideas on feats/skills and level progression?

I'd lower dex and raise str/con. You will get AB in the sky anyway. 16 dex at creation will be plenty actually.

Take into consideration that also means 1 less ac *shrug*
But those (6?) ability points would be pretty handy. So, lets say i put it in str and con/ bring con up to a ten, and str up to a 14, whilst dex goes to 16. Sound better?

If you have 18 dexterity in the character creation screen when making wood elf, you'll have 18 dexterity after the subrace changer. Moon elves already have +2 Dexterity as a racial bonus., and -2 constitution.

I'd consider dropping some bard for more rogue, 'cause it'll serve you a bit better. That said drop some points from Charisma, and put it into strength or constitution.

Doh! Forgot, thanks Bobo! So, thinking of trading something for Harper Scout actually, for the RP. Bard/AA/HS? Or a different base class? And don't you HAVE to have atleast ten in a base class? Or am i dreaming up loads of crap?

jafman30 wrote:

Doh! Forgot, thanks Bobo! So, thinking of trading something for Harper Scout actually, for the RP. Bard/AA/HS? Or a different base class? And don't you HAVE to have atleast ten in a base class? Or am i dreaming up loads of crap?

Just so you know, Harper really is only for RP. I had Harper levels once.

Id puke if you made a HS.... If you want an odd 'lame' class taht works well with bard please consider PDK first...

I know for the rp... But you dont have to be a HS to be a Harper do you?

Take Rogue instead in the least, You can do a lot more with rogue levels. Sneak attacks on top of AA, if you are close enough are pretty damn sexy.

Muahaha! Ok so back to rogue/aa/bard. Feats skills and level progression?

TormakSaber wrote:

Where fullplaters get a lot of their AC immediately, dexers have a bit of a curve as they level of their dexterity and get dexterity boosting items. Don't worry, it's going to go up as you level and move into better gear and higher dex scores. You're only in leather +1. Don't sweat it. A full plate tank in full plate+0 and tower shield+0 is looking at 10 + 9 (8+1 dex for armor. Might not even have that. Hell, might have -1 from 8 dex or -2 if Tuigan!) + 3 Tower shield for 22 AC. But his dex isn't going to go up, so at this point he's relying entirely on magic items to boost his AC. You're not immediately going to hit his stride but you'll catch up, surpass, and then cement your role with Epic Dodge.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_class

Well, you should find every source of AC from that.

Thanks guys!

HS can be a very practical class, but only one level of it is ever taken.

jafman30 wrote:

Muahaha! Ok so back to rogue/aa/bard. Feats skills and level progression?

Well, I would go bard6/Rogue4/AA10 pre-epic, and end up with bard6/Rogue5/AA19 at 30, or switch around abit on the AA and rogue levels if you wish more sneak attacks. No point taking more than 6 bard levels as far as i can see. To meet the AA req, you will need to take 6 bard and 3 rogue for BAB 6, then take AA until level 16, rogue tumble and UMD dump on 17, AA again all the way to 26, rogue tumble and UMD dump at 27, AA rest

As for skills: Hide, MS, Tumble, UMD, and whatever else you can fit in. Unsure wether AA's get dicipline or not. And some perform to match your bard levels.

Edit feats: Well, AA's have lots of feats to spend. WF:longbow, Rapid Shot, point Blank, Imp Crit and Called shot are musts. Weapon finesse if you feel like having a sword and board in reserve. Whatever else you can squeeze in pre-epic wont matter much i think. Except Blidn Fight, should be taken.

Post epic: 2x Great Dex on your AA bonus feats, epic WF longbow, epic prowess, armour skin and something else for the last one.

@ AA Bard Rogue

If your taking Rogue don't bugger about. Take 13 (at least) and get epic dodge.

Which bonus rogue feat would be best for a dual weilding strength based rogue/fighter/CoT?

I was thinking either
Crippling Strike - Painful debuff
or
Improved Evasion - Increased survivability.
or
Slippery Mind - I have the will of a sad kitten, so it just means I fail my save twice.

I can pick one of them at level 16, and the other mid epic.

Crippling Strike, Improved Evasion and- Oh, strength based. Crippling Strike, I'd say.

Oh, I got one more question.

Any tips on how to make my AB go up? other then + weapons.

I duel wield so I have Ambidexterity and Two weapon fighting.

Should I get improved two weapon fighting?

ZenMonkey47 wrote:

Which bonus rogue feat would be best for a dual weilding strength based rogue/fighter/CoT?

I was thinking either
Crippling Strike - Painful debuff
or
Improved Evasion - Increased survivability.
or
Slippery Mind - I have the will of a sad kitten, so it just means I fail my save twice.

I can pick one of them at level 16, and the other mid epic.

In that case the mid-epic one can also be an Epic Skill Focus, so bag one of them, mostly likely Epic Discipline. It'll do you more good than Epic Hide or Spot.

MoshingChris wrote:

@ AA Bard Rogue

If your taking Rogue don't bugger about. Take 13 (at least) and get epic dodge.

13 rogue, 2 bard, 15 aa I think works?

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