AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I've been working on a back-story and basic description for a new character and I wanted to say that he was mostly human. Meaning that his actual in-game race is indeed human but that somewhere distantly down his bloodline is tiefling blood. The only indicator of this that shows up in him is he has jet black eyes, something of a family trait for generations now. Realize that he has no other tiefling traits or abilities nor do any others show up in his parents or their parents.

So my question is whether or not this is permissible seeing as it's a physical characteristic of a genetic mutation that would be in his bloodline but he would still in all purposes be considered human by the game standards; or is that trait so recessive that unless he had enough of the demon/devil/etc. blood in him to retain that characteristic he would in fact be a tiefling?

I just don't want to go ahead and run with that idea to later find out I was wrong because even though I believe the majority of Amians would forgive the error and run with it, it would sure bug the hell out of me.

Tiefling subrace is when the genetic characteristics of ancestral outsider blood actually manifest themselves, hence the stat adjustments and the inherent darkness casting.

A very simply thing like eye colour I don't see as enough of a manifestation to qualify as *requiring* tiefling....though there's nothing set in stone as to how much manifestation you'd *have* to possess if you took tiefling.

Quote:

though there's nothing set in stone as to how much manifestation you'd *have* to possess if you took tiefling

That's where I get confused myself, if an actual tiefling (which I don't want my char to be) can have little to no obvious signs of their heritage could someone so far removed from the corrupting blood still bear one of the benign physical characteristics of one? It'd be nice if some uber nerd out there had compiled a list of the D&D genes that were dominant and recessive so I could just work this out myself

1/1000th demon blood is enough to make a tiefling. You would be a tiefling.

Balls! Question answered, thank you, this thread can be locked now.

MM wrote:

Planetouched is a general word to describe someone who can trace his or her bloodline back to an outsider, usually a fiend or celestial.
The effects of having a supernatural being in one's heritage last for many generations. Although not as dramatically altered as a half-celestial or a half-fiend, planetouched still retain some special qualities.

I don't have a strong opinion on the matter, but that's what the sourcebook says.

I was under the impression that the traits may very well not manifest (ie/ skip generations), which would make you entirely the base race, since the subrace has the ability traits and inherent spell-like darkness, no matter what.

Sure that's incorrect?

Cori wrote:

I was under the impression that the traits may very well not manifest (ie/ skip generations), which would make you entirely the base race, since the subrace has the ability traits and inherent spell-like darkness, no matter what.

Sure that's incorrect?

I was under that impression too. But that's what the MM says *shrugs*

Don't take my word for it, but if I was playing as a character with a drop of tiefling blood I'd treat it the same as Dragon Disciples. With arcane enlightenment they could probably amplify that blood the same as a Dragon Disciple would, though to a greater extent as to be classified as a Tiefling in the races instead of a human.

Then again, I've been wrong quite a few times before.

The Silent Whisper wrote:

Don't take my word for it, but if I was playing as a character with a drop of tiefling blood I'd treat it the same as Dragon Disciples. With arcane enlightenment they could probably amplify that blood the same as a Dragon Disciple would, though to a greater extent as to be classified as a Tiefling in the races instead of a human.

Then again, I've been wrong quite a few times before.

Actually PnP has feats for this for Planetouched with which they can enhance their bloodline(Grow wings even). IF I remember right. Requires the subrace as a beginning anyways and then can be used to gain more abilities past that. Practically the same as RDD but a thousand times better implementation since it does not require yet another prestige class number 21349439732983568235.

Silvarus wrote:

Then again, I've been wrong quite a few times before.

Actually PnP has feats for this for Planetouched with which they can enhance their bloodline(Grow wings even). IF I remember right. Requires the subrace as a beginning anyways and then can be used to gain more abilities past that. Practically the same as RDD but a thousand times better implementation since it does not require yet another prestige class number 21349439732983568235.[/quote]

Abysall/Demonic Heritor feats.
Abyssal Heritor feats are a concept introduced in the Fiendish Codex I (FC I) page 82

Some are pretty nifty, combined with other feats can you make yourself quite an aerial combat type too. Not to forget that the more Abyssal Heritor feats you ahve, the stronger they are.
+1 Ac for every 2 heritor feats, or 2/-Elect for every feat are just examples. Pretty fun overall.

HellScourge wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Actually PnP has feats for this for Planetouched with which they can enhance their bloodline(Grow wings even). IF I remember right. Requires the subrace as a beginning anyways and then can be used to gain more abilities past that. Practically the same as RDD but a thousand times better implementation since it does not require yet another prestige class number 21349439732983568235.

Abysall/Demonic Heritor feats.
Abyssal Heritor feats are a concept introduced in the Fiendish Codex I (FC I) page 82

Some are pretty nifty, combined with other feats can you make yourself quite an aerial combat type too. Not to forget that the more Abyssal Heritor feats you ahve, the stronger they are.
+1 Ac for every 2 heritor feats, or 2/-Elect for every feat are just examples. Pretty fun overall.

Sounds awesome, if not a tad OP.

HellScourge wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Quote:

Then again, I've been wrong quite a few times before.

Actually PnP has feats for this for Planetouched with which they can enhance their bloodline(Grow wings even). IF I remember right. Requires the subrace as a beginning anyways and then can be used to gain more abilities past that. Practically the same as RDD but a thousand times better implementation since it does not require yet another prestige class number 21349439732983568235.

Abysall/Demonic Heritor feats.
Abyssal Heritor feats are a concept introduced in the Fiendish Codex I (FC I) page 82

Some are pretty nifty, combined with other feats can you make yourself quite an aerial combat type too. Not to forget that the more Abyssal Heritor feats you ahve, the stronger they are.
+1 Ac for every 2 heritor feats, or 2/-Elect for every feat are just examples. Pretty fun overall.

Thanks for source confirmation and clarifiaction. I was unsure where I had read of them. I remember similar being available for Aasimars. Checking the books.

EDIT: Only found the general heritage feats from the manual of the planes.

nwn2 has included some iirc

Yep, they have.

As Cori says, planar blood can manifest (and often does, I reckon) unpexpectedly in a family with no unusual members for several generations. The exact results of different kinds of half-planar, planetouched and normal parent crossbreeding are explained briefly in Races of Faerûn, the Planetouched introduction. (Page 112.)

Technically, when your planar blood manifests, you would be Tiefling. But could consider treating it like elves: even if you mechanically have to be one or the other (Human/Tiefling or Moon Elf/Sun Elf), that doesn't mean you might not share some traits of the recessive heritage. That Moon Elf might have copper hair, and I'd say that Human might very well have black eyes as part of a genetic mutation that has carried over into the mundane side of their family. It might not be a direct cause of the fiendish heritage, but rather a natural trait that was originally, generations past, caused by the Tiefling blood. These are the kind of details that are up to player creativity, so it's pointless to explain them in any detail in the rule books.

TormakSaber wrote:

1/1000th demon blood is enough to make a tiefling. You would be a tiefling.

No! I want to be half demon/half dragon/half celestial/half tiger/ and Im taking PM levels to cause I hate my blood and I wanna kill it so I becoem half half-dead

JUST BE HUMAN AND BE UNIQUE

Quote:

That Moon Elf might have copper hair, and I'd say that Human might very well have black eyes as part of a genetic mutation that has carried over into the mundane side of their family. It might not be a direct cause of the fiendish heritage, but rather a natural trait that was originally, generations past, caused by the Tiefling blood.

That's what I was originally thinking but I didn't want to go ahead with it and have people always telling me that if my character has black eyes he has to be tiefling.

Quote:

No! I want to be half demon/half dragon/half celestial/half tiger/ and Im taking PM levels to cause I hate my blood and I wanna kill it so I becoem half half-dead

JUST BE HUMAN AND BE UNIQUE

First off, hilarious, and secondly I am trying to be human more or less, I just liked the idea of having black eyes for my evil (and eventually PM >.>) character and since tieflings can naturally have them I was trying to see if it would make sense for a long descendant to have them without actually being considered a tiefling since he'd have no other traits like darkness innately or resistances.

The OP's tax dodging. He doesn't want the ECL penalty.

So long as he's not going to say later that he wants the mechanical Tiefling subrace because he's 'been one all along' I dont see any trouble with him having black eyes because someone's piddled in the gene pool way way back. There have been stranger things in Amia even with the 'normal' subraces.

Silvarus wrote:

HellScourge wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Quote:

Then again, I've been wrong quite a few times before.

Actually PnP has feats for this for Planetouched with which they can enhance their bloodline(Grow wings even). IF I remember right. Requires the subrace as a beginning anyways and then can be used to gain more abilities past that. Practically the same as RDD but a thousand times better implementation since it does not require yet another prestige class number 21349439732983568235.

Abysall/Demonic Heritor feats.
Abyssal Heritor feats are a concept introduced in the Fiendish Codex I (FC I) page 82

Some are pretty nifty, combined with other feats can you make yourself quite an aerial combat type too. Not to forget that the more Abyssal Heritor feats you ahve, the stronger they are.
+1 Ac for every 2 heritor feats, or 2/-Elect for every feat are just examples. Pretty fun overall.

Thanks for source confirmation and clarifiaction. I was unsure where I had read of them. I remember similar being available for Aasimars. Checking the books.

EDIT: Only found the general heritage feats from the manual of the planes.

I can list some of the feats from the manual if required, I am quite sure it is there.

I just took a look and the list of the feats starts at page 84. 82 introduces them though.
There are not a lot of them either too. I am quite sure someone made some costum ones too once.

Xaviera wrote:

So long as he's not going to say later that he wants the mechanical Tiefling subrace because he's 'been one all along' I dont see any trouble with him having black eyes because someone's piddled in the gene pool way way back. There have been stranger things in Amia even with the 'normal' subraces.

That.

In fact, one of my human chars has a hair color and eye color that match exactly. I say this is because his clan was secluded to the point where it became a domanant trait among them. No harm, no foul to anyone else.

Silvarus wrote:

HellScourge wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Quote:

Then again, I've been wrong quite a few times before.

Actually PnP has feats for this for Planetouched with which they can enhance their bloodline(Grow wings even). IF I remember right. Requires the subrace as a beginning anyways and then can be used to gain more abilities past that. Practically the same as RDD but a thousand times better implementation since it does not require yet another prestige class number 21349439732983568235.

Abysall/Demonic Heritor feats.
Abyssal Heritor feats are a concept introduced in the Fiendish Codex I (FC I) page 82

Some are pretty nifty, combined with other feats can you make yourself quite an aerial combat type too. Not to forget that the more Abyssal Heritor feats you ahve, the stronger they are.
+1 Ac for every 2 heritor feats, or 2/-Elect for every feat are just examples. Pretty fun overall.

Thanks for source confirmation and clarifiaction. I was unsure where I had read of them. I remember similar being available for Aasimars. Checking the books.

EDIT: Only found the general heritage feats from the manual of the planes.

I'm right for once? 0.o

Dark Immolation wrote:

Xaviera wrote:

So long as he's not going to say later that he wants the mechanical Tiefling subrace because he's 'been one all along' I dont see any trouble with him having black eyes because someone's piddled in the gene pool way way back. There have been stranger things in Amia even with the 'normal' subraces.

That.

In fact, one of my human chars has a hair color and eye color that match exactly. I say this is because his clan was secluded to the point where it became a domanant trait among them. No harm, no foul to anyone else.

Aye, strangeness and uniqueness inherited generations ago doesn't hurt anybody, so long as one doesn't go asking for advantages later.

And doesn't start calling themselves a tiefer without being one.

But it is rather more up to the dm's as to whether it's okay or not. Right now there's Tormak seemingly as a "no - take the subrace", and I'm inferring that Iron is a "yes, it should be fine to have the eyes without the subrace".

The rest of us are merely peanut gallery offering our opinions and suggestions.

Yurell wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Xaviera wrote:

So long as he's not going to say later that he wants the mechanical Tiefling subrace because he's 'been one all along' I dont see any trouble with him having black eyes because someone's piddled in the gene pool way way back. There have been stranger things in Amia even with the 'normal' subraces.

That.

In fact, one of my human chars has a hair color and eye color that match exactly. I say this is because his clan was secluded to the point where it became a domanant trait among them. No harm, no foul to anyone else.

Aye, strangeness and uniqueness inherited generations ago doesn't hurt anybody, so long as one doesn't go asking for advantages later.

Similar situation with my drow, and it was DM approved. I think as long as there's no extra power and it's just little manifestations (like an odd eye color), it should be okay.

Yeah, the only thing I really wanted was the eye color and in the bio saying mostly human, more because I thought it sounded cool and not as a reference to being a tiefling and avoiding the ecl penalty. Hell I don't even need to say the mostly human part, like I said I just thought it sounded nifty. I had no intention of him delving into his demonic side and later becoming a tiefling or even him going around claiming he's an honorary member since his great great whatever grandpappy was or some such. I was just trying to have an in-game justification for him having black eyes and being human. I don't like holes either in character's back-stories and information or in plots, it irks me, so if there was some rule saying that black eyes automatically equaled tiefling regardless I was going to nix the idea and just give him dark eyes and call it soup.

Since there's some divided DM opinions on the matter, why not file it like a short special race requestjust so they have some documentation with your explanation/agreement that you're not going to say at some later date that you want to rebuild with the Tiefling subrace, etc, etc. I dunno if they actually like that sort of thing for something apparently minor like this, but hey, that's seems to be the due process and if nothing else, they seem to like due process.

But personally, I'd believe that from someone aliased after a binary and a part of the winter triangle. I mean, how cool is that.

If you want, it can be brought up on the DM forums without need for an actual request. It's not really limited to this character, but a general question: should DMs micromanage eye colour?

YES. ABSOLUTELY.

TormakSaber wrote:

YES. ABSOLUTELY.

I agree. (If your talking about micromanagement)

First its eye colour, then people are using Metallic Skins on their characters and saying at some point in the past there forefather got Humped by a Golem, but they are in fact still human.

No, it's fine to have black eyes. Tormak was joking about having to submit a request to do such.

IronAngel wrote:

No, it's fine to have black eyes. Tormak was joking about having to submit a request to do such.

And obviously my Sarcasm Generator doesn't translate well into text.

Question about distant bloodlines

Who is online