AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

GreatPigeon wrote:

The 16 point in skills is prolly from first level, you may not have factored that in. Humans also get +4 at first level.

Only need 28 spellcraft, your +2 int mod takes care of the rest

I'm not gonna complain about underestimating my skillpoints but I'll sure stay confused for now. And my first level is (4+2)*4 +4 = 28 Sorc's first level only lands me 8, and RDD doesn't say any multiplier.

And for Spellcraft, I am under the impression it works like Tumble. It is by per-5 invested in the skill for the +1 save / AC [respectively] regardless modifier.

Magnum Opera wrote:

Well yeah, you can tumble-dump with all those monk levels, of course. But did you bother to check your BAB with that level distribution of yours?

By "proper tumble-dump", I meant being able to do the dump without messing with what would be your max potential to deal pain and suffering. Attempting to tumble-dump with 20/8/1 means you lose out 1 BAB tops (19/1 monk/sorc pre-epic). Attempting to put 2 monk levels at lvl28 and 29? It means you're gonna take RDD pre-epic as well, which means you lose out on 1 more BAB, so at 2 BAB lost there, all of which translates to less potential damage, weaker KD ability, and weaker overall offensive presence.

I *really* doubt you really want to do that, given that monks already run with 3/4 BAB... Unless you plan on being a tank most of the time, though I doubt since you're taking RDD.

I'll get back to you on what my AB is at the end.

But I -really- haven't a clue about all this base AB stuff. Where the heck do you pull the numbers from? I'm build illiterate. If it's not in bold, simple text in the NwN description- I don't have a clue. I don't know how to calculate any of the saves or the AB.

By RDD pre-epiced, however, I can hit up the STR I'm going to need since it looks like I might be aiming at Dev Crit to get anything in the build.

Just...so many factors.

Torzeng wrote:

And for Spellcraft, I am under the impression it works like Tumble. It is by per-5 invested in the skill for the +1 save / AC [respectively] regardless modifier.

Your impressions is incorrect. Spellcraft gives a +1 bonus to saves versus spells for every 5 points of the modified score. Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft will give you +2 to saves versus spells, as well as will having an INT mod of 10, etc.

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

And for Spellcraft, I am under the impression it works like Tumble. It is by per-5 invested in the skill for the +1 save / AC [respectively] regardless modifier.

Your impressions is incorrect. Spellcraft gives a +1 bonus to saves versus spells for every 5 points of the modified score. Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft will give you +2 to saves versus spells, as well as will having an INT mod of 10, etc.

You sir aren't giving out the whole story.

The extra saves count towards the +20 skill cap on saves. Curse song will affect this aswell.

MoshingChris wrote:

The extra saves count towards the +20 skill cap on saves. Curse song will affect this aswell.

Shh, It's in the fine-print, and I'm trying to sell the skill. It's also valuable for RP and is required to cast epic spells.

Last edited by Torzeng on Wed, Aug 12 2009, 8:40 AM, edited 3 times in total.

Edit For Above: I already Love Spellcraft and knowing what you're doing with your hands and lips. I'm sold.

Luckily for me I don't know where I'd put the 2 other skillpoints leaving 12 floating if I cap at Disc, Conc, Hide, MS each at 32; tumble at 30; and Spellcraft 28 [30after mod]. 12 skillpoints to put...somewhere. And I don't see the extra's floating about until the last 3 levels unless I'm not topping off each level as I can.

Build Attempt Final Stats [gearless]:
Str 27 [Initial: 16][RDD +4]
Dex 14
Con 12 [RDD +2, initial 10]
Int 14
Wis 14 [16 racial]
Cha 8 [10 racial]
[[Another Edit: If it's worth this AB thing I should be able to drop Wis to 10 [12racial] and Dex up to 16]][[Or Wis 12 [14racial] Dex 15 if it doesn't need to be +1 modifier.]][[Heck, I can try stripping down Con too to pump at Dex if it's anything to do with BAB]]

Unarmed AB: 30/27/24/21/18
Dmg: 1-20 + 8 (Crit 19-20 /x2)
Fort 18
Reflex 16
Will 21
Base Attack 19
SR 30

*Sighs* I'm so used to running around at 15AB after improved expertise that 30 looks dandy to me.

Feats Taken:
Blind Fight, Power Attack, Wep Focus Unarmed, Expertise [or toughness], Great Cleave, Improved Critical Unarmed, Dodge, Mobility, Overwhelming Critical, Dev Crit, Epic Weapon Focus Unarmed

Without spelling out all the levels, if RDD is better post-epic on BAB, I still need to take 4 at the edge of epic to get my str high enough for Overwhelm and Dev. Meaning my sorc is very pre-epic as well.
And I'm still quite confused what my trade of 1AC at 8RDD is for the 21st Monk level. 1 AC or ?

Magnum Opera wrote:

Could you break down to us your levelling progression?

Whew...okay dokie. Human Base Aasimar

1] Monk 1 [cleave free] Blind Fight, Power Attack
2] Monk 2
3] Monk 3 Wep Focus UnA
4] Monk 4 +1Str
5] Sorc 1 [lore 8]
6] RDD 1 Expertise
7] RDD 2
8] Monk 5 +1Str
9] Monk 6 Great Cleave
10] RDD 3
11] Monk 7
12] RDD 4 +1Str, Imp Crit UnA
13] Monk 8
14] RDD 5
15] Monk 9 Dodge
16] RDD 6 +1Str
17] RDD 7
18] Monk 10 Mobility
19] Monk 11
20] Monk 12 +1Str
21] Monk 13 Overwhelming Critical
22] Monk 14
23] Monk 15
24] Monk 16 +1Str, Dev Crit
25] Monk 17
26] Monk 18
27] RDD 8 Epic Weapon Focus UnA
28] Monk 19 +1Str
29] Monk 20
ECL + 1 Capped 30.

Magnum Opera wrote:

A 3/4 BAB progressor with:
26 STR + EWF + Epic Prowess
should be getting the max potential of 32 AB...

Edit: and oh, I daresay flatten down that STR to a 26 or kick it up to a 28. Instead of initial 16 STR, maybe drop it to 15 and make it CON 14.

1) I don't have Epic Prowess as thats only +1 AB to all attacks instead of +2 AB for focusing. And I only get 3 Epic feats, not 4.

2) Yeah... Probably should do that with my Str. For kicks I could drop in +1 Cha before my sorc level and get to use the 1st levels spells. *cough*

Could you break down to us your levelling progression? A 3/4 BAB progressor with:

26 STR + EWF + Epic Prowess

should be getting the max potential of 32 AB...

Edit: and oh, I daresay flatten down that STR to a 26 or kick it up to a 28. Instead of initial 16 STR, maybe drop it to 15 and make it CON 14.

Torzeng wrote:

And I'm still quite confused what my trade of 1AC at 8RDD is for the 21st Monk level. 1 AC or ?

The trade-off vs. your current scheme would be 2 more AB and 1 more point of SR for 1 less AC. An excellent trade, would you not say so?

EDIT EDIT: My bad, that's just 1 BAB loss. I'd be inclined to chase that AB even though it comes at the expense of that 1 AC. What you really have to weigh is are you willing to forgo RDD @ early levels (for RP, maybe playability) for max potential AB?

20 monk
1 Sorc
7 rdd
1 monk

In that order case closed
1 ab > 1 ac.

You AB is more imporant...

Attack Bonus
16- pre epic
5 - epic
14 - str mod (if str is 26 base)
1 - wf
2- ewf
5- gloves
1- aid (potion)
1- bless (potion)
45 Final... not to bad considering you will ahve 5 attackes instead of 4

A pure fighter would be 49, 44, 39, 34
You as an unarmed monkey are 45, 42, 39, 36, 30

If you notice, though his first and 2nd attack are highter. your 3rd attacks are the same, your 4th is higher and you have a 5th.

AC -
+4 robes
+8 dex mod 14 base dex
+8 wisdom mod 14 base wis
+5 boots
+4 cloak
+4 amulet
+4 monk levles (20/5)
+6 tumble
+2 armorskin (maybe?)
+4 haste ( Cheap pots, I run around chugging them all day)
+10 base
59 ac with haste, 55 without... Sounds tasty enough to me
Then dont you get 1 bonus ac from RDD... So 56/60 ac

Get you some good gloves and damage is pretty too,
1d20+14(belt brings that to 16 doesnt it, free weapon spec)+ 1d6,1d6,1d6 (glove damamge) + 5(power attack on low ac mobs or with a tasty bard in the party)...

It works
And that last rdd level comes late enough to max spellcraft as needed.

Mkk once more I arrive....it's been awhile.

So as you may have guessed I tend to stick to mages and this time I was thinking of something abit diffrent...but not 'too' much.

A cleric...with a touch of 'something'.

ftr? ab
bg? saves
cot? (i heard it was good...)
rog, tumble dump,umd?

Over all idea? A caster cleric that doesn't die in two hits. (mostly cleric though)

---rambling below---

Race/Mulan human +1wis? lvl30 Or am I better with Aasimar ecl1 +2wis +2cha? lvl29

Needs:
Good saves (charisma trick?)..might be worth upping cha on cleric?
Very Nice Ac (if possible)
Damage doesn't need to be spectacular. (but it could be...maybe? zen archery?)..should I be thinking 'monk'?
Wisdom focus if possible for spells. (9th lvl spells)

Optional Possibilities:
Hellball
Greater Ruin
EDK with epic focus conjur.

I'm leaning towards the EDK...am I being silly with that?
Can I fit in an epic evo with an epic conjur?..or would that make me weak everywhere else?

Also there's the issue of domains...should I go with the domain summons? or try a strength/war domain? or perhaps a travel for haste? Animal for summon buff?

...guidance, i seek guidence...I feel like i'm all over the place.

Please pick a god and such first, then I will build around that...

That being said...

26 cleric/2 bg/2 rogue

26 cleric/2pal/2 rouge

Are the saves models

Im not much into caster clerics, but the most effective use a ranged weapon and zen archery.

You can really just work on 2 stats then, wisdom +cha, instead of wisdom, cha and str.

If you're making a cleric, I suggest making one for Khem. A lot of cool religous RP going on there currently. Unless you're keen on going rogue, that would mean making a cleric of either Lathander, Kelemvor, Hoar, Oghma (I suspect Iron won't be able to keep his dirty hands away from Khem), Tempus, Garagos or one of eight Mulhorandi gods.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Please pick a god and such first, then I will build around that...

That being said...

26 cleric/2 bg/2 rogue

26 cleric/2pal/2 rouge

Are the saves models
These all can be substituded for 26 cleric/3(bg or pal)/1 monk as well
Im not much into caster clerics, but the most effective use a ranged weapon and zen archery.

You can really just work on 2 stats then, wisdom +cha, instead of wisdom, cha and str.

*edited my own statement to include monkeys*

Kjetta wrote:

If you're making a cleric, I suggest making one for Khem. A lot of cool religous RP going on there currently. Unless you're keen on going rogue, that would mean making a cleric of either Lathander, Kelemvor, Hoar, Oghma (I suspect Iron won't be able to keep his dirty hands away from Khem), Tempus, Garagos or one of eight Mulhorandi gods.

What Kjetta said! The Orthodox Church of Oghma will certainy expand into Nes'ek, if not make it the main seat of its power!

Hows about this idea for fixing my broken character... :idea:

Gnome Ranger(21)/Paladin(5)/Rogue(4)

Dual Wield, Bane, Bladethirst+5,Divine Might/Sheild+8, some sneak attack, nice pet...

Or 21/4/5 - +d6 Sneak, -Extra Turning....

The AB should be OK on that I think? And damge won't be bad, even if DEX based?

Good? Bad? Ugly? :shock:

That's Ranger25/Pally4/Rogue1, although I'd rate Pally16/Rogue13/Ranger1 a lot hawter for your needs. Admittedly it's a bit worse. Can send you the specifics of the latter if you want!

Please do! I cant work it out. Can't get the DEX high enough.

On the other one...why only 1 Rogue level? Trading away Divine Graced Evasion and Uncanny Dodge for.....?

Plainly because that 25th Ranger level is better. And you can always use a ring of Improved Evasion!

GreatPigeon wrote:

20 monk
1 Sorc
7 rdd
1 monk

In that order case closed
1 ab > 1 ac.

You AB is more imporant...

Attack Bonus
16- pre epic
5 - epic
14 - str mod (if str is 26 base)
1 - wf
2- ewf
5- gloves
1- aid (potion)
1- bless (potion)
45 Final... not to bad considering you will ahve 5 attackes instead of 4

AC -
+4 robes
+8 dex mod 14 base dex
+8 wisdom mod 14 base wis
+5 boots
+4 cloak
+4 amulet
+4 monk levles (20/5)
+6 tumble
+2 armorskin (maybe?)+4 haste ( Cheap pots, I run around chugging them all day)
+10 base
59 ac with haste, 55 without... Sounds tasty enough to me
Then dont you get 1 bonus ac from RDD... So 56/60 ac

It works
And that last rdd level comes late enough to max spellcraft as needed.

That does show a lot better AB. Wow.
I won't pretend I can pre-plan the AC factors as well from equipment.
The +2 Armor Skin is impossible. I have 29 levels +1ECL. And I rolled out that I may as well go Dev Crit to have any "oomph" to the build feats. Otherwise it is such a hogposh that most look wasted to me.
Or, if I took the Armor Skin, I drop 2AB feat.

Sure takes a lot of lvl grinding before I get to really RP the heritage fairly [in my mind]. Although it does -just- make it still to hit 23/25 STR on time to roll the Overwhelm/Dev Crit out.

*EDIT*

Block building the Monk levels over the pre-epic as you showed, with all the same factors as my other design tests, I do only come out with 1 AB higher and 1 SR higher.
But now my skills take a hit because I go 8 levels in Epic where I can't increase my Hide/Move Silently, and I get delayed on those last 2AC-Tumble. The AC I wager to need more than the +spell save on Spellcraft dumping given I'll be building an SR.
Although it delays my multiclass penalty until Epic levels, I don't think the order of levels has any strong advantage to favor for unless I'm missing something.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Please do! I cant work it out. Can't get the DEX high enough.

On the other one...why only 1 Rogue level? Trading away Divine Graced Evasion and Uncanny Dodge for.....?

For.... 1 feat, summon to always be +5 weapon, another +1 regen on summon, another 30 hp on summon. Effective +1 ab, +1 ac i beleive on summon.. And if your dex based there is a nice armor that gives improved evasion anyways for when you need it over those pesky traps and such!

Also damage would be disgusting either... You would have... Say-.....
1d6(base weapon)+4(str bonus Id hope you can get to it)+1d8(element damage on it)+2d6+5(favored enemy bonus)+ 5 (blade thirst)...
Id use a x3 weapon just for those bigger critical hits....

@Torzeng... Consider maybe dropping dev crit? you will have 19-20 crit range.. and a dc of 38? Only if monsters roll a 1 will you dev them for the most part. Saves you 2 feats. Armor skin, and prowess maybe? More AB in long run means more damage over dev crit?

Last edited by Torzeng on Wed, Aug 12 2009, 21:10 PM, edited 3 times in total.

On About Feats: *EDIT*

Pre-Epic:
Blind Fight [Must]
Power Attack [Dev]
Weapon Focus [Must]
Great Cleave [..eh...required for Dev]
Expertise [Back-Up]
Improved Critical [Does it really matter? Again, Dev]
Dodge [Sure, for mobility]
Mobility [Meeles have to move near mobs a lot after all]

Epic:
Epic Weapon Focus [Must]
Overwhelming Critical [Dev...]
Devistating Critical [Had no better ideas]

That's the list of what I have been taking so far and how I feel about them.

Yellow: Very open to suggestions.
Orange: Pretty darned sure I want these.

However, building for Whirlwind doesn't seem plausable to me. I've tried it before and even buffed out by a pure-sorc I've yet to see it do any good. The pre-epics expecially leave me befuddled however.

If I were to ajust out of Dev Crit; I would take right now:
Pre-Epic, trade Great Cleave for Toughness [+29hp]
Epic: Overwhelm for SR feat, Dev for Armor Skin.

The Improved Critical seems more for kicks, but I can't figure what I can replace it with thats good to have.

Torzeng, on any of my characters Ive never even touched expertise, I value DPS/AB to much, that 5 ac is not worth the loss of AB. If you need to use expertise, imho, you will get killed anyway by mobs, because it will take you that much longer to kill the spawn.

Power attack and cleave are pre reqs for great cleave as well...

Improved Whirlwind is where the love is at!

Azrael wrote:

A cleric...with a touch of 'something'.

ftr? ab
bg? saves
cot? (i heard it was good...)
rog, tumble dump,umd?

Over all idea? A caster cleric that doesn't die in two hits. (mostly cleric though)

---rambling below---

Race/Mulan human +1wis? lvl30 Or am I better with Aasimar ecl1 +2wis +2cha? lvl29

Needs:
Good saves (charisma trick?)..might be worth upping cha on cleric?
Very Nice Ac (if possible)
Damage doesn't need to be spectacular. (but it could be...maybe? zen archery?)..should I be thinking 'monk'?
Wisdom focus if possible for spells. (9th lvl spells)

Optional Possibilities:
Hellball
Greater Ruin
EDK with epic focus conjur.

Also there's the issue of domains...should I go with the domain summons? or try a strength/war domain? or perhaps a travel for haste? Animal for summon buff?

...guidance, i seek guidence...I feel like i'm all over the place.

I'd be happy to send you Weston's Build, created by Dwagin!

He's Human Mulan, Cleric 21/ Monk 6 / Pally 3 [cha trick].

His AC has potential for 70 with Improved Expertise, Tumble Dump, Wis Mod, Divine Shield and gear you can buy off Vendors. Possibly higher too. So around 60AC even a little low on the gear or not running Divine Shield.

Damage is lower, AB is just enough. Sometimes he can work with Expertise instead of Improved at lvl 23 right now.

But it is a build made -highly- for Survival and -low- for killing. However, Level 30 sees GR for a good shot off at undead/badguy splattage. With Epic Focus Conj for the GR. [think it was, have to double check].

Interested? I'll PM it to you.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Torzeng, on any of my characters Ive never even touched expertise, I value DPS/AB to much, that 5 ac is not worth the loss of AB. If you need to use expertise, imho, you will get killed anyway by mobs, because it will take you that much longer to kill the spawn.

Power attack and cleave are pre reqs for great cleave as well...

Improved Whirlwind is where the love is at!

Oops, I have it from human quick to master. Forgot to type it in; Power attack. Cleave is monk gained.

And wha? Improved Whirlwind? ... Well then it might not be as sucky if it can upgrade. I'm still unsure, nor do I know what feats I would need to take.

You dont need Dodge/Mobility when you have tumble. Mobility is near pointless with 14 ranks in tumble and no armour check penalty. I think it helps when youre chugging heal pots though.

Improved Expertise is excellent if you have something to bulk up the ab. It's a bards best friend. Also Imp Expertise using SD's are very useful, as you get some nice AC to allow for dodging while waiting a few rounds to HIPS. Let us also not forget that add in some Bard Song, and the fact that maxing Dex as an SD or rogue is easy as pie, means that you have a nice AB even with IMP expertise.

Remember, anywhere else HIPS spammage isn't possible. It's just because Amia is using default bioware for this.

Thanks everyone for the imput. I forgot about looking at altering my 2 initial feats, which I've settled on how I'm going to balance towards what should give me some survivability and still keep up a better AB [although 1 short of my optinal]. Now to finalize everything else about the PC.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Improved Expertise is excellent if you have something to bulk up the ab. It's a bards best friend. Also Imp Expertise using SD's are very useful, as you get some nice AC to allow for dodging while waiting a few rounds to HIPS. Let us also not forget that add in some Bard Song, and the fact that maxing Dex as an SD or rogue is easy as pie, means that you have a nice AB even with IMP expertise.

Remember, anywhere else HIPS spammage isn't possible. It's just because Amia is using default bioware for this.

Theres never a good Use for Imp Expertise and its Griefy to use it in PvP if your not going to be able to Win whilst using it.

@Torzeng

Dodge/Mobility will have it's uses but Tumble certainly reduces it by a lot. I myself would be inclined to drop dodge/mobility for something else such as save boosts like Strong Soul and Luck of Heroes or maybe even Toughness since you feel lacking in HP.

I agree with Pidge though, Dev Crit would be sub-par. IMO Epic Prowess and Armor Skin, though a bit bland, would be superior.

Oh, and Improved Whirlwind would be terribly unwise, if not impossible to get for a STR focused build. It has a req of 21+ dex (I forget). It would seriously gimp a 3/4 progressors offensive potential.

Quote:

I'd be happy to send you Weston's Build, created by Dwagin!

He's Human Mulan, Cleric 21/ Monk 6 / Pally 3 [cha trick].

His AC has potential for 70 with Improved Expertise, Tumble Dump, Wis Mod, Divine Shield and gear you can buy off Vendors. Possibly higher too. So around 60AC even a little low on the gear or not running Divine Shield.

Damage is lower, AB is just enough. Sometimes he can work with Expertise instead of Improved at lvl 23 right now.

But it is a build made -highly- for Survival and -low- for killing. However, Level 30 sees GR for a good shot off at undead/badguy splattage. With Epic Focus Conj for the GR. [think it was, have to double check].

Interested? I'll PM it to you.

Just curious, why 3 pally? 1 pally is for divine grace 2 for immunity to fear. 3? Turn undead? One already gets that for Cleric i believe? Dropping two and shifting that to cleric nets an epic feat I think.

Magnum Opera wrote:

@Torzeng

Dodge/Mobility will have it's uses but Tumble certainly reduces it by a lot. I myself would be inclined to drop dodge/mobility for something else such as save boosts like Strong Soul and Luck of Heroes or maybe even Toughness since you feel lacking in HP.

I agree with Pidge though, Dev Crit would be sub-par. IMO Epic Prowess and Armor Skin, though a bit bland, would be superior.

Oh, and Improved Whirlwind would be terribly unwise, if not impossible to get for a STR focused build. It has a req of 21+ dex (I forget). It would seriously gimp a 3/4 progressors offensive potential.

Wasnt implyin to use improved whirlwind on that build, saying whirlwind sucks by comparison. As for the imroved whirlwind... its awesome at least in the OC. My dual wielding wm monk had 8 attacks a round... So I got 8 attacks a round at the person in front of me, and then whatever was close i got 1 attack at full AB against... It was pretty bitchin honestly.

25 Cleric/3 Monk/2Paladin looks goody-goody slick and nice.
26 Cleric/3 BG/1 Rogue is naughty and nasty.

*26 cleric/2 BG/2 rogue

Tormie is right,
Said that about 15 posts up and nobody touched it...

Regardless 26/2/2 is by far the strongest build

The only reason to go 3 BG is for aura oof despair if you're going dev cleric, otherwise you want 2/2, yes. but I'd sooner go 25/3/2 than 26/3/1. I just like Evasion, is all, and mass skill points at leve 1. AB hardly matters with extended Divine Power.

Yush. Dev crit is only reason to ever take 3 BG, other then looking cool I guess. And being metagamed and all.

But that 26 cleric is another free feat, so its worth it imho.

*EDITED*

Id also say that 27 cleric/2pal(bg)/1monk - If you can live without UMD... The 27 cleric would be preferable to me for casting clerics. Using summons, at level 27 cleric I beleive all the summons get a pretty good boost dont they, especially that yummy death summon.

Being a viable support cleric and running in with Aura of Despair and Battleside up makes that Wizard with 41 DC wails now effectively 44DC wails go. . .yay!

Quote:

If you can live without UMD...

As a cleric/monk this si slighlty easier as you grba two of your big classes but UMD isd a monumental loss. Period.

True Tormie, I hurt on non UMD, but as a cleric you wouldnt need very many wands.

But I wouldnt do a non UMD unless I had something really spiffy lined up.

Which is why I stuggle to come to grips with why no smarmy bugger has made a Travel and Trickery domain Cleric with craft wand.

You'd have more cash than Prescia inside a month because all the divine classes can use them without the need for UMD. (Exluding CoT of course)

Magnum Opera wrote:

@Torzeng

Dodge/Mobility will have it's uses but Tumble certainly reduces it by a lot. I myself would be inclined to drop dodge/mobility for something else such as save boosts like Strong Soul and Luck of Heroes or maybe even Toughness since you feel lacking in HP.

I agree with Pidge though, Dev Crit would be sub-par. IMO Epic Prowess and Armor Skin, though a bit bland, would be superior.

Oh, and Improved Whirlwind would be terribly unwise, if not impossible to get for a STR focused build. It has a req of 21+ dex (I forget). It would seriously gimp a 3/4 progressors offensive potential.

Lol!
Thats almost what I am doing.

Luck of Heroes and Strong soul.
The Dodge/Mobility mix I would need to trade in for Toughness and 1 more feat, but not a clue what my 2nd would be.
Ditto on the Prowess and Armor skin.

Jas wrote:

Just curious, why 3 pally? 1 pally is for divine grace 2 for immunity to fear. 3? Turn undead? One already gets that for Cleric i believe? Dropping two and shifting that to cleric nets an epic feat I think.

Uhm... *Checks the build* Pally 3: (Cha bonus = saves, Smite Evil)
Thats how it shows.
I'll forward send the full document in a PM to you instead of cluttering here with how long it is. But you'll see a full run-down of the idea; again, Dwagin made it for me. So I'm not a wiz as to all the why's.

MoshingChris wrote:

Which is why I stuggle to come to grips with why no smarmy bugger has made a Travel and Trickery domain Cleric with craft wand.

Really? I had thought that it still counted as an arcane wand.

Oh and sure Torzeng, more to look at the better, I have a general grasp of things just not the specifics. As monk you get speed on that build and the defense is through the roof. The caster level suffers a little as a result, but it's worth a look anyway. Sounds like you've got EDK on it as a survivor build. *summon and watch* >.>

I've got lots of builds to go over and test, ty to all. *hands out cookies*

There is still the issue of cleric domains however, and which are viewed as some of the best.

p.s. I've learned to survive without umd, so I'm not addicted to it

...and yes I let this go for a day or so to hear the debates, it's the good part about these forums.

Torzeng wrote:

Lol!
Thats almost what I am doing.

Luck of Heroes and Strong soul.
The Dodge/Mobility mix I would need to trade in for Toughness and 1 more feat, but not a clue what my 2nd would be.
Ditto on the Prowess and Armor skin.

Great Fortitude? You can never go wrong with more saves. Or perhaps instead of Toughness, take the Disarm/Improved Disarm line. You've already the INT for it, and I hear it works most excellently for an unarmed warrior.

Yurell wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Which is why I stuggle to come to grips with why no smarmy bugger has made a Travel and Trickery domain Cleric with craft wand.

Really? I had thought that it still counted as an arcane wand.

Nope. If its crafted by a cleric its a divine spell thus wand.

Is this right?

I believe Flame Weapon works on animal companions - but, if it has more than one creature weapon (Bite/Claw/Claw) it will only apply to one?

I'm considering Boar for Ranger/Paladin/Rogue. It would be reskinned so the choice of pet is purely mechanical. I think Boar is the best choice? It only has one weapon and has only slightly less strength than Bear.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Is this right?

I believe Flame Weapon works on animal companions - but, if it has more than one creature weapon (Bite/Claw/Claw) it will only apply to one?

I'm considering Boar for Ranger/Paladin/Rogue. It would be reskinned so the choice of pet is purely mechanical. I think Boar is the best choice? It only has one weapon and has only slightly less strength than Bear.

"Branch of Giving" provides fire or cold damage to companion attacks. One weapon on Boar is a bit of an advantage, but the bear and panther have their advantages too.

The Branch affect all creature weapons because it's to-character damage(this is my own name for it, dunno if there's a Bioware one), which has the side effect of bypassing DR and not being boosted by vulnerabilities. Divine Might people suffer this too since they really should see the Divine damage vulnerability that most Amian undead have, but they don't. Battletide, Divine Favour and the Amia custom prayer system also get this weird limbo, but that doesn't matter nearly so much since almost nothing is immune/vulnerable to Magic damage.

Thus, you are perversely enough better off giving your fuzzybutt the Iceberry flavour of Branch when going to the likes of the Frozen Wastes. It'll do exactly the same amount of damage as Fire would, but the Branch also gives 10/- to cold. Vice versa for the Spire and similar toasty places.

The flame weapon and iceberry stack...

The berry that just keeps on giving...

Does anyone find that one damage type (slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning) does better than the others?

bludgeoning tends to be superior since most other mudane damage types is either slashing or piecering

ZenMonkey47 wrote:

Does anyone find that one damage type (slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning) does better than the others?

Bludgeon (just slightly) > Pierce >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slashing.

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