AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

You don't need to totally max the trap skills to use epic traps

My Imp. Two Weapon, Dev Critting Parry monster Rapier Weapon Master is proving hard to make. Should I dump the WM levels and take a few Rouge instead?

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

No, but neat fact: Mighty stacks with Darts/Throwing axes' Auto-mighty.

I tested my question about Bladethirst adding AB/Mighty to thrown weapons and here's what I found:

1) BladeThirst DOES add AB/Mighty to Thrown weapons.

2) Mighty Weapon Property DOES NOT stack with the Automighty on Throwing Axes.

I used my STR Ranger to test against some critters with no DR using ThunderClaws +3.

Base Damage: 1-6
STR Mod: 13
Enhance: +3
Mighty from BladeThirst: +4

I got a range of 17-22 Physical Damage which corresponds perfectly to the Base + STR Automighty + Enhance.
No Mighty Stacky.

AmianPlayer wrote:

I tried and guess what ... I failed

bard21/SD7/rog2.

problemo 1 : skill points. I start with 14 INT, and I still have my doubts. I try to max hide, ms, set trap(for epic traps) , disable trap(to recover them), tumble (30 ranks) and perform. Which skill to ESF? and I also need search, to actually find the traps...
problemo 2 : feats. I go offensive (weapon focuses, specializations, weap. finesse) or more passive (ESFs, Armor skin etc)?

Can that build work decently with a sword, of will I be limited to the "bow, then lure them in the trap zone" thing?
Yeah, for one more time ... I'm totally clueless =D

Take only 1 point in search, Bard song will take care of the rest.
Dont need disable trap to badly, you can put on gear for that, since your own traps are free, and you will have protection of your homies when in abyss to take out the traps. With only 21 levels of bard achieving the required. 55 perform.

33 ranks+10 cha mod... only need 12 points in gear, Easy as hell no use for ESF

I will get called stupid for this but to go the trap route Id take
armor skin, epic hide, epic weapon prof, epic set trap

Set trap skill --> 33(base ranks)+10(ESF)+10(Dex Mod)+9(bard song).. 62.... so with 1 slot on your gear you can get 67... 65 is the set trap mod... you'd be able to do it right on top of someone without err. As a human you'd get 7 skills. Also remember you would get extra skill points from SD and Rogue.

I been looking at it and need someone with an SD to say yay or nay... 7 SD gives you slipper mind (you wont have much saves anyway) but gets access to the level 7 sd store. Normally peopel take 2 rogue for evasion but SD already gets that. You can take 1 level of rogue at first level, it would give you enough skill points to max 8 skill I beleive.

Discipline, Concentration, Perform, Spellcraft, Hide, Ms, Set trap, tumble,

GreatPigeon wrote:

33 ranks+10 cha mod... only need 12 points in gear, Easy as hell no use for ESF

I will get called stupid for this but to go the trap route Id take
armor skin, epic hide, epic weapon prof, epic set trap

Set trap skill --> 33(base ranks)+10(ESF)+10(Dex Mod)+9(bard song).. 62.... so with 1 slot on your gear you can get 67... 65 is the set trap mod... you'd be able to do it right on top of someone without err. As a human you'd get 7 skills. Also remember you would get extra skill points from SD and Rogue.

Instead of wasting Epic Skill Focus on anything other than Discipline or Spot, Drink a Rogue's Cunning Potion in combat and/or Use OWTL on a ring. You'll thank yourself later.

*smacks himself* Didint even think about rogues cunning, good save man.

Ya take epic discipline instead.

*feels like an idiot*

GreatPigeon wrote:

*smacks himself* Didint even think about rogues cunning, good save man.

Ya take epic discipline instead.

*feels like an idiot*

Rogue's cunning is a Columbus' Egg. It's not an obvious solution to set-trap until someone tells you about it.

I never thought to use the potions until I realized I would be several points short of being able to set Epics out of combat with one of my characters. One with the Land is a good bonus too, if you only need +4. It's cheaper long-term.

My Ranger has the rogues cunning epic item but I never thought of it.

*ashamed*

Im kinda new to the server, But enlighten me how much Skillpoints you need to Set "Epic Traps"; And how Deadly are they really?

Would i be called a Powergamer if i made a Bard 28(Blackguard2) for the Charisma Modifier to My save rolls?

And how much UMD do you really need to have to be able to use "All" Amia's items?

And rangers? . . . Any idea to make one?

The Incognitos wrote:

The parry element is only to be used in 'duels' (PvP and 'bosses' really). In the 'mobs' situation I'd go with KD, sneak damage and lots of attacks(lesser creatures not deserving of the full attention of the great Gulio Ceaser). How would this go? I know that I can't block all of the attacks in a 'flurry' which is why I went for Epic Dodge. How would this fly against a single opponent do you think?

I have two parry-heavy characters in Amia. First out is Benny Blackfoot, ranger 9/assassin 8/rogue 1 wielding a rapier of thunder and a cortesan blade. In areas where there are animals, like Forest of Despair and Forrstakkr, he dominates an animal and use it as the killer tank. Occupying the enemies with parry and riposts. When the opponent gets stunned from the weapons, I must hurry to break up the parry and do ordinary sneak attacks. as long as Benny don't get swamped, he has no real trouble to solo any area suitable for his level. Parry + sneakattacks + weapons with stun is a killer combination.

The second is Carl Coll, a pure level 29 ranger with a panther companion and specialised in a double edged sword. As long as the enemies stands in front of him, he can parry just about anything attacking him and his cat. The problem in the spire are the dismissal of the cat and the blade walls he always end up standing in when parrying. Beholders, yuan-tis, illithinds and raptors are much better prey for him. Has he had any big problems geting to 29? Oddly, barbarians kills him a lot more easy than the giants, probably 'cause they get a lot of crits with their axes and crits (natural 20:s at least) can't be parried. Together with the fire axe throwers these barbarians are a menace to get through. The undead in Castle Mourn is a bad choice too since they can't be sneaked by the cat. Otherwise, all melee enemies I have met in Amia have been parried one way or the other. Ranger + panther + parry is a killer combination.

In both cases, it's important to reduce the amount of enemies attacking at once to make the parry skill worthwhile. The terrain must be used in the parriers advantage to make sure only 1-2 enemies can attack at once.

I cant tell you the DC for the traps, but i know the Epic Sonics do 120 damage each. Its the equivalent of throwing a very angry bear 90 mph at their groin/thigh area. As for the Bard 28 BG 2, does it really matter if you would be a powerfamer or not?

Anywho, welcome to Amia!
*locks the exit*

Muspelkvist wrote:

Im kinda new to the server...

Hi. Welcome.

Quote:

But enlighten me how much Skillpoints you need to Set "Epic Traps"; And how Deadly are they really?

65 is the DC to set Epic Traps. If you take maximum ranks, you can set a trap out of combat only if your Dex Mod is 12 or Higher. Clearly you'll need some trap-setting equipment if you want a good chance to set traps in combat.

They're good for pretty heavy elemental Damage, in the 100s range, and a DC 30 Save versus status effect.

Quote:

Would i be called a Powergamer if i made a Bard 28(Blackguard2) for the Charisma Modifier to My save rolls?

No, because you didn't take 4 pre-epic levels in a full BaB class for the extra attack, and didn't take at least 3 BG levels for the -2 Saves aura.

The Charisma trick is fairly common. If someone calls you a powerbuilder, so what? It's your character, not theirs.

Quote:

And how much UMD do you really need to have to be able to use "All" Amia's items?

You need between 1 and 32 ranks depending on your charisma modifier, available buffs, and how much you're willing to invest in UMD equiptment. Keep in mind, that your modified score only has any effect in multiples of 5: IE 5, 10, 15, 20 ranks etc.

Quote:

And rangers? . . . Any idea to make one?

Using strength as a base is better for pure or nearly-pure class rangers. Dual wielding is optional but a good idea, as Rangers are not known for high defenses and really are only good for one thing: doing damage.

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

Quote:

And rangers? . . . Any idea to make one?

Using strength as a base is better for pure or nearly-pure class rangers. Dual wielding is optional but a good idea, as Rangers are not known for high defenses and really are only good for one thing: doing damage.

I concur. High STR, uberfuzzybutt companion, an AE'd tank, and the right favoreds all make for a spiffy damage output. Mine doesn't even have Bane of Enemies yet or any good gear for that matter and he can dish out some nice damage. I'd say a minimum of 25 ranger, I'm going for a pure 30 and I'm hopeful it'll work out, but 25 mixed with a bit of fighter/rogue/etc is a commonly recommended mix.

Thanks for the quick replies, folks.
Useful tips, I think I can make the build/character now. Though, there was another question up there, by my last post. Please don't hit me with a stick for asking too much. But I know you enjoy playing with them builds :-p

Quote:

Can that build work decently with a sword, of will I be limited to the "bow, then lure them in the trap zone" thing?

I really like the traps idea. Still, I think it's a bit too passive, as a tactic.
Plus, I havent really seen a bard in PvP action. So, can that bard enjoy some melee coolness?

Your damage will be low with sword, since you are going dex based, bow is your best bet, remember the archery feats, point blank and/or rapid shot should help....
Or short sword with weapon finesse. Your damage wont be to sexy, but it should have decent enough ab and with enough tricks to be tasty. Rember the SD levels make everyone flat footed so your AB is up another 5+ points

Shold still work though

I'm build testing that dwarven bard 26/ cot 2 / ftr 2, and I've come upon a few questions. What would those last 2 feats I get at 30 be best put towards, is lingering song even worth taking and what would it be best replaced with if not, and do you think having absolutely zip for concentration might be a bad thing? Oh and I chose dwarven waraxe as a weapon. I'm planning on using that and a shield, most likely the large shield from Triumvir with no arcane spell failure. Any thoughts?

sylvan_shadow wrote:

I'm build testing that dwarven bard 26/ cot 2 / ftr 2, and I've come upon a few questions. What would those last 2 feats I get at 30 be best put towards, is lingering song even worth taking and what would it be best replaced with if not, and do you think having absolutely zip for concentration might be a bad thing? Oh and I chose dwarven waraxe as a weapon. I'm planning on using that and a shield, most likely the large shield from Triumvir with no arcane spell failure. Any thoughts?

Go Greataxe, spend DC's on monkey Grip, and say's he's playing his "axe".

sylvan_shadow wrote:

I'm build testing that dwarven bard 26/ cot 2 / ftr 2, and I've come upon a few questions. What would those last 2 feats I get at 30 be best put towards, is lingering song even worth taking and what would it be best replaced with if not, and do you think having absolutely zip for concentration might be a bad thing? Oh and I chose dwarven waraxe as a weapon. I'm planning on using that and a shield, most likely the large shield from Triumvir with no arcane spell failure. Any thoughts?

I like concentration on my bard, especially if you plan on being melee bard... You should get some I thinks.. if not enjoy failing mass hastes and such

I went for greatsword, partly because I hate sub-100 Devcrits unless unarmed, and I wanted 15-20 threat more than 18-20. I'd not spend the feat on Exotic, because if memory serves, you simply can't afford it.

Bard1/Ftr1, then take the first CoT level late in pre-epic. Might as well be at level 20; Bard levels are always useful, but the CoT only adds the base Fort, which isn't very important until PvP/bossfighting later.

1 Power Attack
Ftr1: Cleave
3 Extend Spell
6 Curse Song
9 Weapon Focus
12 Maximise Spell
15 Improved Crit
18 Great Cleave

21 Armourskin
24 Lasting Winspiration
27 Great STR
30 Epic WF

Bard23: Epic Skill: Perform
Bard26: Epic Skill: Discipline
Ftr2: Overcrit
CoT2: Devcrit

There's a pretty good case to be made for swapping Epic Perform or Discipline for Lasting Winspiration, and freeing up the general feat slot for Epic Fort.

Last edited by Torzeng on Tue, Aug 11 2009, 6:34 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Ooooh, I feel strange turning to the build topic. I think for my second time, finally. I've not made a new character in so long...

I'm seeking to make a human-base Aasimar. It's actually a PC somebody else has roughly designed along with a full family tree. So the blood is divided into Aasimar and 1/8th of a T'ien Lung dragon. Which pushes me to think I should take some RDD levels in there all nice and proper. So in fiddling, I would like to do an RDD/Monk/1sorc build.

My fiddling about with the system makes me think I should take, at final lvl 29 [ECL 30] a total of 20monk/7RDD/1Sorc. I would still get +4 str, +2 con, and +2AC this way. I'm quite open to suggestion however on that part. Cannot take lvl 8 of RDD because I don't want to have to cough DC's to Leto off wings. I'm told T'ien Lung dragons are more serpentine, wingless.

Then with the monk, I don't know if I should go Str or Dex build. I'm more hopeful to be a Hide/MoveSilently though as part of the character's design fitting their behaviors. I should have H/MS and Tumble, and if there is spare skillpoints, would it be more worth spellcraft [sets of 5 for the +1saves] or heal given the tankskill of Monks?

Right now I need ideas on:
Str or Dex?
Starting Stats?
Hows the Level Balance?
And Feat suggestions would be excellent. It's my impression I would want Blind Fight, Dodge, and Mobility, with Whirlwind suggested to me but I've been unimpressed with it before since it [seems to?] leave you Flatfooted loosing Dodge AC. Going high enough Dex, I liked the idea of Circle Kick.

Please help!

*Minor Edits*

I'm not a build master, but is there a particular RP reason for the sorceror? I was under the impression that bard is better.

Yurell wrote:

I'm not a build master, but is there a particular RP reason for the sorceror? I was under the impression that bard is better.

Lawful Monk.
Bard Is Unlawful only.

LN Character.

Oh I remember what I am now! An idiot!
My apologies

Anubis wrote:

I've planned out a Monk, but Im stuck on the last feat on 30th.

It's either:

Epic Weapon Focus; Kama

or

Epic Skill Focus; Disc

I don't know which I'd need more. Im guessing the Wep foc since I hardly ever do PvP on Amia.

Disk? Is that like... Shuriken?

Morene Armande wrote:

Anubis wrote:

I've planned out a Monk, but Im stuck on the last feat on 30th.

It's either:

Epic Weapon Focus; Kama

or

Epic Skill Focus; Disc

I don't know which I'd need more. Im guessing the Wep foc since I hardly ever do PvP on Amia.

Disk? Is that like... Shuriken?

Disc = Discipline.

@RDD-Monk, at ECL 29 you can get 21/7/1 Monk/RDD/Sorc, last monk for tumble dump. Personally I'd go more monk though.

Epic Skill Focus: Discipline.

Edit: Ninja'd

Torzeng wrote:

Ooooh, I feel strange turning to the build topic. I think for my second time, finally. I've not made a new character in so long...

I'm seeking to make a human-base Aasimar. It's actually a PC somebody else has roughly designed along with a full family tree. So the blood is divided into Aasimar and 1/8th of a T'ien Lung dragon. Which pushes me to think I should take some RDD levels in there all nice and proper. So in fiddling, I would like to do an RDD/Monk/1sorc build.

My fiddling about with the system makes me think I should take, at final lvl 29 [ECL 30] a total of 20monk/7RDD/1Sorc. I would still get +4 str, +2 con, and +2AC this way. I'm quite open to suggestion however on that part. Cannot take lvl 8 of RDD because I don't want to have to cough DC's to Leto off wings. I'm told T'ien Lung dragons are more serpentine, wingless.

Then with the monk, I don't know if I should go Str or Dex build. I'm more hopeful to be a Hide/MoveSilently though as part of the character's design fitting their behaviors. I should have H/MS and Tumble, and if there is spare skillpoints, would it be more worth spellcraft [sets of 5 for the +1saves] or heal given the tankskill of Monks?

Right now I need ideas on:
Str or Dex?
Starting Stats?
Hows the Level Balance?
And Feat suggestions would be excellent. It's my impression I would want Blind Fight, Dodge, and Mobility, with Whirlwind suggested to me but I've been unimpressed with it before since it [seems to?] leave you Flatfooted loosing Dodge AC. Going high enough Dex, I liked the idea of Circle Kick.

Please help!

*Minor Edits*

That's an awesome character idea. Don't take circle kick, waste. Will you be fighting unarmed?
EDIT: In fact that's one of the most awesome ideas I've seen in ages. Can I make one too? Serious question, with an idea that cool I feel I should ask, otherwise it's like copy write infringement. You've made the Hidden Dragon, someone needs to make a Crouching Tiger.

The Incognitos wrote:

That's an awesome character idea. Don't take circle kick, waste. Will you be fighting unarmed?
EDIT: In fact that's one of the most awesome ideas I've seen in ages. Can I make one too? Serious question, with an idea that cool I feel I should ask, otherwise it's like copy write infringement. You've made the Hidden Dragon, someone needs to make a Crouching Tiger.

Yes. Unarmed. Only.
I'm guessing Circle Kick is a waste because it's only +1 free attack in a round?

Uhm... Build wise nobody can stop you. But the PC is a character I'm making for somebody else's family tree. I'm not sure what part you're exactly asking about.

Magnum Opera wrote:

@RDD-Monk, at ECL 29 you can get 21/7/1 Monk/RDD/Sorc, last monk for tumble dump. Personally I'd go more monk though.

Oh, right... My counting was off. Whoops.

I'm still toying with the order to take the levels to max dumps, excpecially depending how my Int is for skill points. Since RDD can take Spellcraft, I'm partially wondering if that is worthwhile if I have the intellect for it. I'm very unsure how to build well, however.

Torzeng wrote:

The Incognitos wrote:

That's an awesome character idea. Don't take circle kick, waste. Will you be fighting unarmed?
EDIT: In fact that's one of the most awesome ideas I've seen in ages. Can I make one too? Serious question, with an idea that cool I feel I should ask, otherwise it's like copy write infringement. You've made the Hidden Dragon, someone needs to make a Crouching Tiger.

Yes. Unarmed. Only.
I'm guessing Circle Kick is a waste because it's only +1 free attack in a round?

Uhm... Build wise nobody can stop you. But the PC is a character I'm making for somebody else's family tree. I'm not sure what part you're exactly asking about.

If I make one like this it would be a Kara Tuan. The only other character from that region I've wanted to make has been a 'samurai' but the katana doesn't exist and I'm a weapon purist. This gives me Enter the Dragon(!). Also may give a monk build that can use a quarterstaff and be tough, maybe even dev crit quarterstaff.

[last spam]

@Incognito: Technically, I don't see anything that I could say that justifies me stopping you from making a character. Short of acknowledging there is no special link, knowledge, or acknowledgement of yours and my PC proir in-game interactions.
Take a whack at the build, which is a loose template right now, and go for it. Just as long as it's cool and understood the PC I'm making already has a background made for them by somebody else. So no connections.

Torzeng,
Please note that circle kick is the most devilishly annoying feat ever created. If you make the mistake of taking it you will be circle kicking yourself in the arse until you rebuild it away. You have been warned.

Yarp, it's evil. The reason it sucks is that you target someone else for the kick and then swap to fighting them for the next round, until you get another Circle Kick, and then you target some other monster etc etc.

Any one critter will plainly stop doing any damage in return once it's dead, so after your first kill, the mob is now doing 5/6 of its DPS. Kill another, it's doing 2/3, then half, then 1/3 then 1/6, a pretty sterady reduction throughout the duration of the battle. Crits and so on mean it's a pretty messy graph, but over enough fights it'll even out.

With Circle Kick, the whole lot of them stay alive and swinging at you until very late when there's a sudden dramatic string of Cleaves and kills. That's not compensated by only one extra attack per round, not when you already have between 5 and 8, depending on Flurry and Haste.

That's your best case scenario, when every creature in the mob is equal. Much more likely is the case where there's casters or other types of special attackers who you want to disable with KD spam first, or there might be Sneak Attackers who you really want to face toe-to-toe.

Maybe on an ultra lowbie server, Circle Kick might be good, but when you expect to have a zillion attacks/round for most of your career, it's truly awful.

Torzeng wrote:

[last spam]

@Incognito: Technically, I don't see anything that I could say that justifies me stopping you from making a character. Short of acknowledging there is no special link, knowledge, or acknowledgement of yours and my PC proir in-game interactions.
Take a whack at the build, which is a loose template right now, and go for it. Just as long as it's cool and understood the PC I'm making already has a background made for them by somebody else. So no connections.

I understand that. I just thought I'd ask so you didn't discover in game that there was a 'build clone' running around; especially considering that this is a somewhat creative build.

Torzeng wrote:

And Feat suggestions would be excellent. It's my impression I would want Blind Fight, Dodge, and Mobility, with Whirlwind suggested to me but I've been unimpressed with it before since it [seems to?] leave you Flatfooted loosing Dodge AC. Going high enough Dex, I liked the idea of Circle Kick.

Please help!

*Minor Edits*

Take Blind fight, forget the rest of the feats. You may consider taking Dodge, but that's questionable.

High Dex with no real damage bonuses is a lousy idea. You will cry for those 40 damage crits. I'd consider a STR-based Monk25/RDD4/Sorc1, or even dropping RDD!

I'm playing Gnome Rogue/Paladin at the moment. Knocking on Level 20. Rog/Pal should be awesome but she's pretty bad. Hardish to take down, but the AB is awful.

A certain someone mentioned an idea to me yesterday....

I think it was Paladin16/Rogue13/Ranger1 with Epic Dodge? I'm not sure what the Ranger level was for though. And I dont know about stats, levelling order, and so on...I've got a char building spreadsheet open and I can't see how it works. Am I supposed to be scratching Divine Might?

Opustus? Help! :shock:

Torzeng, i also want you to know that i have made a build already almost identical, except human so 22/1/7 monk/sorc/RDD... I did not copy you, i made it before reading this post and its level 8 to boot. Just wanted you to know

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

I'm playing Gnome Rogue/Paladin at the moment. Knocking on Level 20. Rog/Pal should be awesome but she's pretty bad. Hardish to take down, but the AB is awful.

A certain someone mentioned an idea to me yesterday....

I think it was Paladin16/Rogue13/Ranger1 with Epic Dodge? I'm not sure what the Ranger level was for though. And I dont know about stats, levelling order, and so on...I've got a char building spreadsheet open and I can't see how it works. Am I supposed to be scratching Divine Might?

Opustus? Help! :shock:

Ranger is so you can dual wield on spawns, and to max spot, hide, ms, discipline, at level 30 most likely

Should have taken as much pally as you can in pre-epic... maybe 16 paladin/4rogue... Then taken the 9 levels of rogue, you could then get epic dodge at level 29... You could get epic dodge at 27, but it would mean a loss of 1 ab..

I dont know your dex or charisma scores but Id see as getting epic dodge would have 26 base dex when done, and Id hope for 16 or 18 base charisma...

AC Should make you near impossible to hit, damage... well.. you're dex based.. unless you're sneaking its non existant.

On a cha based... never ever scratch div might!

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

And Feat suggestions would be excellent. It's my impression I would want Blind Fight, Dodge, and Mobility, with Whirlwind suggested to me but I've been unimpressed with it before since it [seems to?] leave you Flatfooted loosing Dodge AC. Going high enough Dex, I liked the idea of Circle Kick.

Please help!

*Minor Edits*

Take Blind fight, forget the rest of the feats. You may consider taking Dodge, but that's questionable.

High Dex with no real damage bonuses is a lousy idea. You will cry for those 40 damage crits. I'd consider a STR-based Monk25/RDD4/Sorc1, or even dropping RDD!

Dropping RDD would be tough. I also like that thought of +2con for the retroactive HP. Given I counted levels wrong, I was thinking fixing my count with 20monk/8RDD/1sorc since wings are lvl 9th, not 8th, and then I pick up +1natural armor. Don't think there is enough difference with the 20 to 21st monk level and I won't need a second sorc level.

More to consider given what I've been told to edge away from. Coolbeans... I think.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

I'm playing Gnome Rogue/Paladin at the moment. Knocking on Level 20. Rog/Pal should be awesome but she's pretty bad. Hardish to take down, but the AB is awful.

A certain someone mentioned an idea to me yesterday....

I think it was Paladin16/Rogue13/Ranger1 with Epic Dodge? I'm not sure what the Ranger level was for though. And I dont know about stats, levelling order, and so on...I've got a char building spreadsheet open and I can't see how it works. Am I supposed to be scratching Divine Might?

Opustus? Help! :shock:

It's a gimmick build. Too tired to think at the moment, and I'm not even sure if that's the optimal version, but sounds like it to me.

Alright, I'm considering remaking a character, as either a cleric or a wizard. But I can't decide which one, or a general build. Bearing in mind he's stuck as half-elf, and that I'm intending to play an Oghmanyte...

What would some decent builds be for a cleric or a wizard, bearing in mind I'd prefer to be doing melee combat rather than ranged?

Wait wait mairacle... melee wizard? :shock:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

And Feat suggestions would be excellent. It's my impression I would want Blind Fight, Dodge, and Mobility, with Whirlwind suggested to me but I've been unimpressed with it before since it [seems to?] leave you Flatfooted loosing Dodge AC. Going high enough Dex, I liked the idea of Circle Kick.

Please help!

*Minor Edits*

Take Blind fight, forget the rest of the feats. You may consider taking Dodge, but that's questionable.

High Dex with no real damage bonuses is a lousy idea. You will cry for those 40 damage crits. I'd consider a STR-based Monk25/RDD4/Sorc1, or even dropping RDD!

I made the 25/4/1 build with Dev Crit Quaterstaff... it looked frigging awesome. It also still manages to get a base Wis of 18 which makes him a dead eye with ninja stars!

The Incognitos wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

And Feat suggestions would be excellent. It's my impression I would want Blind Fight, Dodge, and Mobility, with Whirlwind suggested to me but I've been unimpressed with it before since it [seems to?] leave you Flatfooted loosing Dodge AC. Going high enough Dex, I liked the idea of Circle Kick.

Please help!

*Minor Edits*

Take Blind fight, forget the rest of the feats. You may consider taking Dodge, but that's questionable.

High Dex with no real damage bonuses is a lousy idea. You will cry for those 40 damage crits. I'd consider a STR-based Monk25/RDD4/Sorc1, or even dropping RDD!

I made the 25/4/1 build with Dev Crit Quaterstaff... it looked frigging awesome. It also still manages to get a base Wis of 18 which makes him a dead eye with ninja stars!

I'm still toying with what I can do making it a 20m/8rdd/1s. the 21st monk level doesn't look like it gets anything nifty, so I'd rather take 8th RDD for +1natural AC [I messed up my counts bad, wings are 9th not 8th level].
The hope with 8 RDD is getting the +4 Str, +3nat AC, and +2 Con for a little added protection in making a Str-build. Expecially given that the Aasimar subrace is going to add +2Wis for 1 more AC from monk feat bonus, the +2Cha just means I get to use my silly little sorc Orisons for light.
I looking into the Dex build style thinking I might like the high-end AC but I could easily see the lack of dmg. I'm trying to create a balance of some modest AC with still good punching power.

Bah, I've no clue about builds. But does a wizard need to be fighting with a ranged weapon such as a crossbow? I've a sorcerer who fights with a rapier. Thus why I need advice. I'm beginning to lean more towards cleric though.

Torzeng- An aasimar rdd? I wash my hands of you sir

Mairacle-Do a fighting wizard right its called Bard... or make a cleric and kicketh da asses

Torzeng wrote:

I'm still toying with what I can do making it a 20m/8rdd/1s. the 21st monk level doesn't look like it gets anything nifty, so I'd rather take 8th RDD for +1natural AC [I messed up my counts bad, wings are 9th not 8th level].
The hope with 8 RDD is getting the +4 Str, +3nat AC, and +2 Con for a little added protection in making a Str-build. Expecially given that the Aasimar subrace is going to add +2Wis for 1 more AC from monk feat bonus, the +2Cha just means I get to use my silly little sorc Orisons for light.
I looking into the Dex build style thinking I might like the high-end AC but I could easily see the lack of dmg. I'm trying to create a balance of some modest AC with still good punching power.

Difference between 21 monk vs 8 RDD is that:

1) 21 monk means 1 more AC ( 2 AC points in tumble-dump vs. 1 more natural from RDD);
2) 1 more BAB (you can pure monk 20 pre-epic for flat 15 BAB);
3) and 1 more SR(you never know when it'll make a difference).

with 20/8/1 split, you can't tumble-dump properly, and if you do try to tumble-dump, you'll definitely lose 1 BAB and monk save progression (unless you've already set your heart on taking RDD levels pre-epic; you lose the BAB anyway), though the save progression is a bit debatable.

Also, IIRC, tumble AC counts against touch attacks, natural AC doesn't.

Like Opustus said, 25/4/1 would've been best but since ECL 29 prevents you from getting that, IMO 21/7/1 would be your best alternative.

*Shakes fist* I have a bard. He's pure.

Anyway, I'm going for cleric, I suppose. I've had thoughts on cleric/CoT/Fighter, fighter for Epic Weapon Specialization. Any suggestions on level combos?

mairacle_ninja wrote:

*Shakes fist* I have a bard. He's pure.

Anyway, I'm going for cleric, I suppose. I've had thoughts on cleric/CoT/Fighter, fighter for Epic Weapon Specialization. Any suggestions on level combos?

Erm, perhaps 25 Cleric/4 Fighter/1 CoT? CoT for saves mod pre-epic or maybe to get EWS in epic.

Magnum Opera wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

I'm still toying with what I can do making it a 20m/8rdd/1s. the 21st monk level doesn't look like it gets anything nifty, so I'd rather take 8th RDD for +1natural AC [I messed up my counts bad, wings are 9th not 8th level].
The hope with 8 RDD is getting the +4 Str, +3nat AC, and +2 Con for a little added protection in making a Str-build. Expecially given that the Aasimar subrace is going to add +2Wis for 1 more AC from monk feat bonus, the +2Cha just means I get to use my silly little sorc Orisons for light.
I looking into the Dex build style thinking I might like the high-end AC but I could easily see the lack of dmg. I'm trying to create a balance of some modest AC with still good punching power.

Difference between 21 monk vs 8 RDD is that:

1) 21 monk means 1 more AC ( 2 AC points in tumble-dump vs. 1 more natural from RDD);
2) 1 more BAB (you can pure monk 20 pre-epic for flat 15 BAB);
3) and 1 more SR(you never know when it'll make a difference).

with 20/8/1 split, you can't tumble-dump properly, and if you do try to tumble-dump, you'll definitely lose 1 BAB and monk save progression (unless you've already set your heart on taking RDD levels pre-epic; you lose the BAB anyway), though the save progression is a bit debatable.

Also, IIRC, tumble AC counts against touch attacks, natural AC doesn't.

Like Opustus said, 25/4/1 would've been best but since ECL 29 prevents you from getting that, IMO 21/7/1 would be your best alternative.

You can tumble dump properly, I just created a test build. 14 intellect mind you, so +2 mod for all the skillpoints I need.

What I got at the moment: [ECL+1 Aasimar]
str 16
dex 14
con 10
wis 14 [+2 racial = 16]
int 14
cha 8 [+2 racial = 10]

Went STR build, so RDD added in +4 Str and +2 Con, and +3 AC; -1 AC Amia ajustments.

I calculated for 190 skillpoints with 20/8/1 and seemed to end at 206. Which still perplexes me.

So my skills ended at:
Conc 32
Disp 32
Hide 29
Move Silently 29
Lore 8
Spellcraft 30
Tumble 30
Which adds up to 190, and my test PC on single-player still had 16 points leftover that I missed somewhere.

Final Levels to do the dumps properly where 8thRDD at level 27, spellcraft 30. Then Monk 19th and 20th level at 28/29 respectively. All my other RDD levels are wrapped up by lvl 17.

The 16 point in skills is prolly from first level, you may not have factored that in. Humans also get +4 at first level.

Only need 28 spellcraft, your +2 int mod takes care of the rest

Well yeah, you can tumble-dump with all those monk levels, of course. But did you bother to check your BAB with that level distribution of yours?

By "proper tumble-dump", I meant being able to do the dump without messing with what would be your max potential to deal pain and suffering. Attempting to tumble-dump with 20/8/1 means you lose out 1 BAB tops (19/1 monk/sorc pre-epic). Attempting to put 2 monk levels at lvl28 and 29? It means you're gonna take RDD pre-epic as well, which means you lose out on 1 more BAB, so at 2 BAB lost there, all of which translates to less potential damage, weaker KD ability, and weaker overall offensive presence.

I *really* doubt you really want to do that, given that monks already run with 3/4 BAB... Unless you plan on being a tank most of the time, though I doubt since you're taking RDD.

The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Who is online