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Uberuce
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 Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 21:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Gold dwarf Bard26/Cot2/Ftr2 with Devcrit. Accept no substitute.
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 22:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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I would like a Caster Druid.
I'm inclined to think it's a lost cause. Having monk is an option, if not preferred (Monk Actually Makes RP sense for the character I have in mind: Wow!). Shapeshifting is optional, but not preferred over spellcasting. Human (any subtype) is preferred. Any Epic Feat is Optional (Except Epic Spell: Mummy Dust).
I want to use Conjuration/Evocation with at least Greater Spell focus or none at all. I've looked over the Druid Spell List, and these two spell schools are particularly important. Unfortunately I won't get as many of these spell caster feats as a wizard would, and lack Buffing/Debuffing ability. No haste on a druid is particularly crippling as a caster. I thought about being a cornersneak mage with Camo/MassCamo/OWL, but I have no idea if this build will survive.
Can this be done? Will it survive? Any pro-tips to making it effective?
_________________ 
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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sylvan_shadow
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 22:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
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Huh, not a bad idea by any means, but how will that break down stat wise? I'm pretty sure I'm going to need 18 str to start and I'll probably need 16 cha if I want 6th lvl bard spells. A breakdown would be really appreciated. Hate to bug ya but I'm used to straight up fighters, rogues, and spellcasters. I'm going to search to see if such a thing exists already. Thankee!
_________________
Amand Saelir - Blade dancer, master of the arcane
Haelar Stoneskull - Man-pretty Gold Dwarven Stonesinger
"Duty is heavier than a mountain, death is as light as a feather" Borderland Saying from Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Toughness is silly and Rogue13/Fighter16/Ranger1 would be a good bit better. But surely, any Rogue13/Fighter16/Some other class, is better. I'd personally go with more Rogue.
I considered the Ranger level for dual wield but with that can I take Imp. Two weapon fighting? The extra attack from that is very important for the riposte attack from parry(or is it?). The big question is will the BAB be high enough for parry and can parry work in PvP and PvM?
The other big one is will Epic Dodge avoid the attack that would be Parried or the attacks that get through the parry? If the case is the latter then this could be an actual workable dualist and a great spy hunter/ nobleman's champion character.
Would ESF Spot be better then Toughness and Epic Toughness? If this works then I can finally make Gulio Ceasar(I stole the name and parts of the personality from a Spike Milligan book so this will be a very fun character to play), the greatest swordsman in the history of the fishing village of Whelks Rest. _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Uberuce wrote: Gold dwarf Bard26/Cot2/Ftr2 with Devcrit. Accept no substitute. And whats the point of 2 Cot instead of antoher 2 fighter for the 6 damage rucey? Leggomi Eggolas wrote: I would like a Caster Druid.
I'm inclined to think it's a lost cause. Having monk is an option, if not preferred (Monk Actually Makes RP sense for the character I have in mind: Wow!). Shapeshifting is optional, but not preferred over spellcasting. Human (any subtype) is preferred. Any Epic Feat is Optional (Except Epic Spell: Mummy Dust).
I want to use Conjuration/Evocation with at least Greater Spell focus or none at all. I've looked over the Druid Spell List, and these two spell schools are particularly important. Unfortunately I won't get as many of these spell caster feats as a wizard would, and lack Buffing/Debuffing ability. No haste on a druid is particularly crippling as a caster. I thought about being a cornersneak mage with Camo/MassCamo/OWL, but I have no idea if this build will survive.
Can this be done? Will it survive? Any pro-tips to making it effective?
No go total wis, take zen archery,
Ffolk or Mulan, 26 druid, 3 monk 1 ranger (for spot, discipline, maxing hide/ms, and can be used for epic weapon focus or spell focus I beleive).
Use a crossbow, or bow, doesnt matter I dont think (if druids can). Use subrace Mulan or Ffolk, to get the +1 wis, Your AC will be purty, nothing much will hit you. Have EDK if you want, if not have elemental swarm, and a super piggy/teddy/kitty.
Hmm....
Thats sounds right, for stats I would (oh shite I lost my builder program thingy). So I cnat help with stats, Id take Wis to its max to start of course, minimize charisma, 12 str, 14 dex, 12-14 intel, and put rest (if any) into con...
Idk... but 26/3/1 Sounds pretty tasty..
AC- 60 with haste
AB- Not sure how many spare feats but it wil be above 40
Remember you will have a summon that has 50+ AB in front of you, and you can buff him insanely good.
You can max 6-7 skills. Spot, Discipline, Spellcraft, Concentration, Tumble, Set Trap ( im in love with traps), _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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sylvan_shadow wrote: Huh, not a bad idea by any means, but how will that break down stat wise? I'm pretty sure I'm going to need 18 str to start and I'll probably need 16 cha if I want 6th lvl bard spells. A breakdown would be really appreciated. Hate to bug ya but I'm used to straight up fighters, rogues, and spellcasters. I'm going to search to see if such a thing exists already. Thankee!
If you dont haev 6th level bard spells nobody loves you.. try to get 18 cha, its another mass haste which goes a long way in epic levels, dont take exrta music or lingering song, they are nice for pre-epic, but waste in epic ( I know I have both). _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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The Incognitos wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Toughness is silly and Rogue13/Fighter16/Ranger1 would be a good bit better. But surely, any Rogue13/Fighter16/Some other class, is better. I'd personally go with more Rogue. I considered the Ranger level for dual wield but with that can I take Imp. Two weapon fighting? The extra attack from that is very important for the riposte attack from parry(or is it?). The big question is will the BAB be high enough for parry and can parry work in PvP and PvM? The other big one is will Epic Dodge avoid the attack that would be Parried or the attacks that get through the parry? If the case is the latter then this could be an actual workable dualist and a great spy hunter/ nobleman's champion character. Would ESF Spot be better then Toughness and Epic Toughness? If this works then I can finally make Gulio Ceasar(I stole the name and parts of the personality from a Spike Milligan book so this will be a very fun character to play), the greatest swordsman in the history of the fishing village of Whelks Rest. Parry is broken, dont rely on it, its supposed to be super awesome but it fails badly,
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Parry - read how ugly it is
No, with 1 level of ranger you dont get the improved 2 weapon fighting, you get only 1 offhand attack, So you'd have 5 attacks with epic dodge, a decent sneak modifer, and good ac...
You will still be very very handy in a fight...
I saw something somewhere, dont knwo if it would work but its similar to what you have, way less feats *tight as a... im not saying* but its 10 ranger, 13 rogue, 7 wm... Using daggers or short swords to not cheese and be gay with rapier or kukri... *shrugs*
Dont use parry
[/rant] _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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swe_west_coast
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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Parry isn't as bad as you might think in lower levels. Especially if you have a character with few attacks and low AB. In that case, you parry most of the incoming blows and since the riposte roll has nothing to do with your AB, only about how many points you have in the parry skill, it can make your day and make it possible for you to hurt impossible opponents. A character with wizard/sorc/druid/ranger levels with a panther can stall the melee opponents and let the cat take out the enemies with sneak attacks. This works particularly well in an area like FoD when hunting werewolves, hunting beastmen or in Minmir bridge hunting ogres. After level 20, it's usefulness dwindles drastically though. Furthermore, parry is completely useless against opponents with ranged attacks or groups where some opponents have ranged attacks. If you're getting swamped, then parry wont help you much either if the enemies have 3+ attacks/round and you don't (i.e. trolls and you're for instance a level 5 rogue/druid).
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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I've been thinking, and gone though the whole 59 pages(almost) in this thread...
And i got stuck with an idéa of a Rogue24/Shadowdancer6 build,
Where Strenght is the major attribute and ultimately, Getting Dev.Crit Dart.
The Race is a halfling(strongheart), Hence only 22Rogue(6Shadowdancer) = Level 28.
I've been testing it a little, it's an easy build. But i lack Feats...
I spend all feats i have to get Dodge/Mobiltiy(For the shadowdancer class), and Powerattack + Cleave + Greater cleave + Imp.Critical(dart) + Overwhelming Critical + Devastating critical + Point Blank shot.
But i do NOT have enought Feats Pre Epic to get Rapid shot. Wich would "Really" help leveling.
Nor do i have enought feats to get the Feat to use shields. (Since you can use shields with darts)
There it is, and it's grim.
Any idéas, and Toughts?
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Sun, Aug 09 2009, 23:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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GreatPigeon wrote: No go total wis, take zen archery,
Ffolk or Mulan, 26 druid, 3 monk 1 ranger (for spot, discipline, maxing hide/ms, and can be used for epic weapon focus or spell focus I beleive).
Use a crossbow, or bow, doesnt matter I dont think (if druids can). Use subrace Mulan or Ffolk, to get the +1 wis, Your AC will be purty, nothing much will hit you. Have EDK if you want, if not have elemental swarm, and a super piggy/teddy/kitty.
Hmm....
Thats sounds right, for stats I would (oh (censored) I lost my builder program thingy). So I cnat help with stats, Id take Wis to its max to start of course, minimize charisma, 12 str, 14 dex, 12-14 intel, and put rest (if any) into con...
Idk... but 26/3/1 Sounds pretty tasty..
AC- 60 with haste
AB- Not sure how many spare feats but it wil be above 40
Remember you will have a summon that has 50+ AB in front of you, and you can buff him insanely good.
You can max 6-7 skills. Spot, Discipline, Spellcraft, Concentration, Tumble, Set Trap ( im in love with traps),
Druids won't get longbow proficiency, and unless I change my mind, he's not going to be an elf.
Unless I want to take that Ranger Level Pre Epic (A waste, in my opinion and contrary to the point of taking the ranger level) I won't be able to get any normal weapon proficiencies unless I sink a feat on a pre-epic monk level. No pre-epic weapon proficency= No pre-epic weapon focus feats. It matters little because I intend the character to fight with spells + pets, and possibly a quarterstaff if combat occurs at all.
Hasted AC is little consolation given the character can't self-haste.
Since Druids only get bonus feats at levels 24, and 28, I thought of a few options:
25/5 Druid Monk for the maximum benefits of having a pet and the extra point of Monk AC.
27/3 For Maximum caster level (Nature's Balance is no substitute for Mords)
25/3/2 Druid Monk CoT, For a great Wisdom and Save boost.
24/6 Druid Monk, For extra movement speed. _________________
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Forgot to mention.
Darts get the + Damage from Strenght, Shurikens Doesnt. Hence i use Darts.
Also, I got a BIG AttackBonus problem. At Epic levels i "Barely" have 30:ish attackbonus, Whats the use of Dev.Crit when i cannot hit? Is there any Ranged weapon that "Do" get improved AttackBonus from Strenght? Rather than Dexterity?
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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Muspelkvist wrote: Forgot to mention.
Darts get the + Damage from Strenght, Shurikens Doesnt. Hence i use Darts.
Also, I got a BIG AttackBonus problem. At Epic levels i "Barely" have 30:ish attackbonus, Whats the use of Dev.Crit when i cannot hit? Is there any Ranged weapon that "Do" get improved AttackBonus from Strenght? Rather than Dexterity?
No, Sadly. The only way I can see covering the massive AB problem that a Dart-Dev-Critter would have would be to use Cleric instead of a rogue/shadowdancer, Paladin or Barbarian, or use Truestrike and abuse HiPS like it was going out of style. I don't know if you'll want to end up doing the latter. _________________
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Leggomi Eggolas wrote: Muspelkvist wrote: Forgot to mention.
Darts get the + Damage from Strenght, Shurikens Doesnt. Hence i use Darts.
Also, I got a BIG AttackBonus problem. At Epic levels i "Barely" have 30:ish attackbonus, Whats the use of Dev.Crit when i cannot hit? Is there any Ranged weapon that "Do" get improved AttackBonus from Strenght? Rather than Dexterity? No, Sadly. The only way I can see covering the massive AB problem that a Dart-Dev-Critter would have would be to use Cleric instead of a rogue/shadowdancer, Paladin or Barbarian, or use Truestrike abuse HiPS like it was going out of style. I don't know if you'll want to end up doing the latter. Goddamnit...
Mighty only adds Damage, Not AttackBonus, Right?
Thought about Shortbows instead of Darts(Even tho it would miss them)
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Leggomi Eggolas wrote: I would like a Caster Druid.
I'm inclined to think it's a lost cause. Having monk is an option, if not preferred (Monk Actually Makes RP sense for the character I have in mind: Wow!). Shapeshifting is optional, but not preferred over spellcasting. Human (any subtype) is preferred. Any Epic Feat is Optional (Except Epic Spell: Mummy Dust).
I want to use Conjuration/Evocation with at least Greater Spell focus or none at all. I've looked over the Druid Spell List, and these two spell schools are particularly important. Unfortunately I won't get as many of these spell caster feats as a wizard would, and lack Buffing/Debuffing ability. No haste on a druid is particularly crippling as a caster. I thought about being a cornersneak mage with Camo/MassCamo/OWL, but I have no idea if this build will survive.
Can this be done? Will it survive? Any pro-tips to making it effective?
Could go Ffolk druid, with the following stats after subrace adjustement:
str: 12
con 12
dex: 12
int: 12
Wis: 18
cha: 8
You wont be a fighter, but can do quite well with ranged weapons if taking zen archery. Take 3 levels of monk for AC, or go 28 druid/ranger!/rogue1 for tumbledump and wep profiencies and extra feat. As a caster you will be very good, you will have an awesome companion, but your AC and non ranged AB will suck.
With Monk your AC will be grand, but much more cheesy.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Oh, and go for throwing axe. Just because it makes you much cooler than anyone else.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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Muspelkvist wrote: Goddamnit...
Mighty only adds Damage, Not AttackBonus, Right?
Thought about Shortbows instead of Darts(Even tho it would miss them) No, but neat fact: Mighty stacks with Darts/Throwing axes' Auto-mighty. Quote: Could go Ffolk druid, with the following stats after subrace adjustement:
str: 12
con 12
dex: 12
int: 12
Wis: 18
cha: 8
You wont be a fighter, but can do quite well with ranged weapons if taking zen archery. Take 3 levels of monk for AC, or go 28 druid/ranger!/rogue1 for tumbledump and wep profiencies and extra feat. As a caster you will be very good, you will have an awesome companion, but your AC and non ranged AB will suck.
With Monk your AC will be grand, but much more cheesy.
I don't really have any sort of archer in mind. The Caster Levels of that build are Sublime, but as you say, AC is a problem. _________________
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 0:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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@ Leggomi, out of everythign you suggested me thinks that the 26 druid/3monk/1ranger is still by far the best balanced build. Great spells, the summon only lose like 2ab and 2 ac from a level 30 druid. You can get spot.
Even without haste you have 56 AC dude... 56 ac rocks when you have An AE pet
Super Summon with (my piggy has 54ab, a druids with 2 more cl and better spells proll has 57)
Elemental or EDK
Your damange will not be insane yourself, but pet dishes 40-50s all day, elemental is 25-35, AE pet is to soak up damage and get sneak attacks (my strategy at least)
I really think its good. Dont have to worry about your personal AB rivaling a fighters... because your summon is better then WMs Just a smaller crit range.
AB should be 40ish, Im telling you, you wont be the damage cannon anyway, I have 39 ab on my ranger at level 30 when unbuffed dual wielding using basic hammers, and I dont miss in most epic areas even still, with your crossbow or bow you will have 4 attacks aroind still (rapid reload feat). And be kicking ass. Remember druid gets SR, and aura of vitality, and maxed bulls/cats/endurance... Thats +9 to your pets core stats (and yours if you wanted)
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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xordae
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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I made the same build as you're looking for just the other day, Leggomi.
Druid (30), 18 Wis to begin with, up Wis at every opportunity. Would suggest at least 12 Int so you can get 15 Tumble (3 AC).
Pre Epic:
Focus Evoc
Greater Focus Evoc
Focus Conj
Greater Focus Conj
Extend Spell
Spell Penetration
Zen Archery (if not, switch for Metamagic or Greater Penetration)
Epic: (my build)
Great Wis x 5
Dragonshape
Alternative Epic: (all-out caster)
Great Wis x 3
Epic Focus Evoc
Epic Focus Conj
Epic Spell: Dragon Knight (actually you could ditch this for something else)
Dragonshape is a freebie here. +5 Wis effectively means +2 bonus to all your spell DCs, Alternative Epic gets +3. This build rocks, it can solo the Spires early on and can take on the Abyss with very little help. Screw that filthy multiclassing, you want those CLs.
Last edited by xordae on Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:38 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Grapeshot
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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Doesn't it take 4 monk lvls to get the wisdom ac benefits? Or is the Amiawiki page wrong?
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jafman30
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: The Land of Confusion.
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It does grape... It does indeed.
_________________
--MAINS--
Xanon .: Talonite!
Xiladei .: Amethyst Dragon Disciple.
Ryth .: Returning Elven Archer. Missing for some time.
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maglorine
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Leggomi Eggolas wrote: Muspelkvist wrote: Goddamnit...
Mighty only adds Damage, Not AttackBonus, Right?
Thought about Shortbows instead of Darts(Even tho it would miss them) No, but neat fact: Mighty stacks with Darts/Throwing axes' Auto-mighty. Does Bladethirst add AB+Mighty to thrown and ranged weapons now, like it does for GMW? I remember seeing a thread discussing it once recently but can't recall the outcome and the spells thread doesn't say but it's not been updated for a variety of changes I know are complete.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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I say druids should get elephant skin spell from NWN2. +10 AC.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Grapeshot
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 1:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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jafman30 wrote: It does grape... It does indeed.
So you are looking at a 25 druid/4 monk/1 ranger build and open to greater dispel and looking at loosing another caster lvl. To me it would look like it would be better to go 29 druid/ 1 tumble/disc dump class. I don't have my caculator but a full tumble dump class plus medium armor, shield and cats grace potion would have to be close to wisdom bonus provide by monk. Those 4 caster lvls will be big on spell dc
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Grapeshot wrote: Doesn't it take 4 monk lvls to get the wisdom ac benefits? Or is the Amiawiki page wrong? No jafman30 wrote: It does grape... It does indeed. Read above maglorine wrote:
Does Bladethirst add AB+Mighty to thrown and ranged weapons now, like it does for GMW? I remember seeing a thread discussing it once recently but can't recall the outcome and the spells thread doesn't say but it's not been updated for a variety of changes I know are complete. Im pretty sure it does, bring a bow to my ranger and we can test it  Grapeshot wrote: jafman30 wrote: It does grape... It does indeed. So you are looking at a 25 druid/4 monk/1 ranger build and open to greater dispel and looking at loosing another caster lvl. To me it would look like it would be better to go 29 druid/ 1 tumble/disc dump class. I don't have my caculator but a full tumble dump class plus medium armor, shield and cats grace potion would have to be close to wisdom bonus provide by monk. Those 4 caster lvls will be big on spell dc NO... you need 3 levels to get monk AC on Amia, and 4 levels gets you access to the bestest monk shop (which you can get another monk to buy out of for you).
26 Druid/3 Monk/ 1 Ranger _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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How the Moshing Chris would do it (and shamelessly similiar if not exactly the same as the Salmon Cow)
Mulan: Worshipper of Osiris, Hathor, Anhur or Perhaps Sebek.
Start 19 Wisdom
29 Druid 1 Ranger
Pre-epic feats 20 Druid:
Extend Spell, Maximise Spell, Zen Archery, Spell Focii: Evo and Conj, GSF: Evo and Conj, Empower Spell or Silent Spell.
Epic Feats 9 Druid 1 Ranger: Great Wisdom 4, Epic Conjuration, Epic Dragon Knight, DragonShape
Very Tanky Party that after spells your running at 1500hp w/ AE and a manticore bump that to 2000hp. You Take Epic Conjuration on your Ranger level and max out that spot.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Exactly, in other words take Ruce/OP build, whose was it?
But he was specific about wanting those monk levels!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Selvec Darkon wrote: I say druids should get elephant skin spell from NWN2. +10 AC.
Monk /Druid with 70AC before dragonshape? NAY! _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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GreatPigeon wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: I say druids should get elephant skin spell from NWN2. +10 AC. Monk /Druid with 70AC before dragonshape? NAY! Rp behind monk/druid is nonexistant.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Doesnt mean it doesn happen, and I beleive there is some order of druidic monks... though I personally giggle about it.
Leggomi wanted a druid/monk so Im on that still.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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GreatPigeon wrote: The Incognitos wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Toughness is silly and Rogue13/Fighter16/Ranger1 would be a good bit better. But surely, any Rogue13/Fighter16/Some other class, is better. I'd personally go with more Rogue. I considered the Ranger level for dual wield but with that can I take Imp. Two weapon fighting? The extra attack from that is very important for the riposte attack from parry(or is it?). The big question is will the BAB be high enough for parry and can parry work in PvP and PvM? The other big one is will Epic Dodge avoid the attack that would be Parried or the attacks that get through the parry? If the case is the latter then this could be an actual workable dualist and a great spy hunter/ nobleman's champion character. Would ESF Spot be better then Toughness and Epic Toughness? If this works then I can finally make Gulio Ceasar(I stole the name and parts of the personality from a Spike Milligan book so this will be a very fun character to play), the greatest swordsman in the history of the fishing village of Whelks Rest. Parry is broken, dont rely on it, its supposed to be super awesome but it fails badly, http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Parry - read how ugly it is No, with 1 level of ranger you dont get the improved 2 weapon fighting, you get only 1 offhand attack, So you'd have 5 attacks with epic dodge, a decent sneak modifer, and good ac... You will still be very very handy in a fight... I saw something somewhere, dont knwo if it would work but its similar to what you have, way less feats *tight as a... im not saying* but its 10 ranger, 13 rogue, 7 wm... Using daggers or short swords to not cheese and be gay with rapier or kukri... *shrugs* Dont use parry [/rant] The parry element is only to be used in 'duels' (PvP and 'bosses' really). In the 'mobs' situation I'd go with KD, sneak damage and lots of attacks(lesser creatures not deserving of the full attention of the great Gulio Ceaser). How would this go? I know that I can't block all of the attacks in a 'flurry' which is why I went for Epic Dodge. How would this fly against a single opponent do you think? _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 2:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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I guess it might work, Ive heard lots of nasty about parry, tested it offline and it was nasty....
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Grapeshot
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 3:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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Grapeshot wrote: Doesn't it take 4 monk lvls to get the wisdom ac benefits? Or is the Amiawiki page wrong?
No
Then the amia wiki page must be a be outdated. It does say 4 there.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 5:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Wrong pidge.
I made a Parry Bard, tested offline against my Brothers Dev WM, and it frankly kicked the WM's arse for seven minutes.
I then made a Dev Parry Bard. 29/1 Bard/Fighter. Armed with a scimitar. Typically what happened was 80 parry meant i auto-parried the first attack and Dev'd on the Riposte. 9 times out of 10 my brothers WM was down in less than than a minute because he could only get through my 64AC and Parry on his top attack which i constantly riposted.
A stillborn devver or a Cleric Devver would undoubtedly beat it, but then Bards have alot of other tricks to take down either of those two.
Its a nice supplemental skill, which i believe only works well enough on a Bard to be of any use (Seff hasted, Bardsong, Imp Invisi-ed AC) because you don't have to invest skill ranks on your gear set into getting a decent score. (Base 33, Epic Focus 10, Dex Mod 6, 18 song).
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 5:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Huh, i tried offline for bad results, I will take another look, epic dodge might make it work pretty good to, but Id agree on a bard much more powerful.
Dual wield, kama parry supah-monk time?
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 5:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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GreatPigeon wrote: Huh, i tried offline for bad results, I will take another look, epic dodge might make it work pretty good to, but Id agree on a bard much more powerful.
Dual wield, kama parry supah-monk time?
Its only worth it if you only have to invest one power slot on your gear and can get it to 80.
Dex based monk wielding Kamas with epic parry gloves would indeed work. 20/5/5 Monk/Fighter/SD.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 7:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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GreatPigeon wrote: Uberuce wrote: Gold dwarf Bard26/Cot2/Ftr2 with Devcrit. Accept no substitute. And whats the point of 2 Cot instead of antoher 2 fighter for the 6 damage rucey? It plainly can't afford all the feats. _________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 7:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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MoshingChris wrote: Wrong pidge.
I made a Parry Bard, tested offline against my Brothers Dev WM, and it frankly kicked the WM's arse for seven minutes.
I then made a Dev Parry Bard. 29/1 Bard/Fighter. Armed with a scimitar. Typically what happened was 80 parry meant i auto-parried the first attack and Dev'd on the Riposte. 9 times out of 10 my brothers WM was down in less than than a minute because he could only get through my 64AC and Parry on his top attack which i constantly riposted.
A stillborn devver or a Cleric Devver would undoubtedly beat it, but then Bards have alot of other tricks to take down either of those two.
Its a nice supplemental skill, which i believe only works well enough on a Bard to be of any use (Seff hasted, Bardsong, Imp Invisi-ed AC) because you don't have to invest skill ranks on your gear set into getting a decent score. (Base 33, Epic Focus 10, Dex Mod 6, 18 song).
And if you n00bs feel like doing this build the right way, you use lé halberd. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 8:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Actually thats incorrect. Ashraf uses a Halberd. But your minimum armor class safety net is 68 to be rolling 20's against anything but str based Barbs, Paladins, Clerics and 16+ Weapon Masters. That requires a +4 towershield from what i recall.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 8:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Well, as long as you don't use a scimitar, was my point. But you'll be wanting to wield a two-hander with that juicy strength score.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 8:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Uncle-Opustus wrote:
It plainly can't afford all the feats.
Correct potato is correct. You can presumably get EWS and Devwibble if you go Bard20/Ftr4/CoT6, but I wub my caster levels and the Bard25 watershed too much.
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AmianPlayer
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 8:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: GMT+2
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GreatPigeon wrote: Dont worry about dual wield, its not needed. Using a bow would work well with the pvp trap plan. You HiPs set traps, keep doing this, then shoot and lure!
Dont worry about damage on the bard... Bard = HEY DUDE COME TO ABYSS WITH ME.
Bard Song rocks. Im pretty sure Bards get hide/ms as a skill.
Skills could be Discipline, Concentration, Hide, MS, Set Trap, Disarm Trap, Spellcraft, and 1 point in everything else! huzzah Bard Song!
I can play with it some, but let the real builder have first crack at it I reckon, They've not even given me my junior builders card yet!
Thanks for the quick reply.
I'll build the char and play with it myself :-p But be my guest... =D
How about lvl progression, at least pre-epic?
_________________
-Starless_Day_Dawning.
[*]Naethar Olderon
[*]Risenth Zagavar
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 9:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: MoshingChris wrote: Wrong pidge.
I made a Parry Bard, tested offline against my Brothers Dev WM, and it frankly kicked the WM's arse for seven minutes.
I then made a Dev Parry Bard. 29/1 Bard/Fighter. Armed with a scimitar. Typically what happened was 80 parry meant i auto-parried the first attack and Dev'd on the Riposte. 9 times out of 10 my brothers WM was down in less than than a minute because he could only get through my 64AC and Parry on his top attack which i constantly riposted.
A stillborn devver or a Cleric Devver would undoubtedly beat it, but then Bards have alot of other tricks to take down either of those two.
Its a nice supplemental skill, which i believe only works well enough on a Bard to be of any use (Seff hasted, Bardsong, Imp Invisi-ed AC) because you don't have to invest skill ranks on your gear set into getting a decent score. (Base 33, Epic Focus 10, Dex Mod 6, 18 song). And if you n00bs feel like doing this build the right way, you use lé halberd. So how does A Dex Based Epic Dodger factor in here? Parry is a Dex based skill so with there is the massive bonus to parry gained from that. Will Epic Dodge avoid the first attack to get through the Parry wall? If so then you are looking at, for a 'flurry' of five attacks; 1st; parry, 2nd; Epic Dodge, 3rd; parry. Is this correct? If so it is not until the 4th attack that they even get a shot at your AC(And that is made at the AB of their 4th Attack). Then the 5th attack is parried leaving one for the riposte which is made at full AB. Seems like good odds to me. Am I missing something? _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 9:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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xordae wrote: I made the same build as you're looking for just the other day, Leggomi.
Druid (30), 18 Wis to begin with, up Wis at every opportunity. Would suggest at least 12 Int so you can get 15 Tumble (3 AC).
Pre Epic:
Focus Evoc
Greater Focus Evoc
Focus Conj
Greater Focus Conj
Extend Spell
Spell Penetration
Zen Archery (if not, switch for Metamagic or Greater Penetration)
Epic: (my build)
Great Wis x 5
Dragonshape
Alternative Epic: (all-out caster)
Great Wis x 3
Epic Focus Evoc
Epic Focus Conj
Epic Spell: Dragon Knight (actually you could ditch this for something else)
Dragonshape is a freebie here. +5 Wis effectively means +2 bonus to all your spell DCs, Alternative Epic gets +3. This build rocks, it can solo the Spires early on and can take on the Abyss with very little help. Screw that filthy multiclassing, you want those CLs.
While playing a Pure Druid looked attractive, I don't wish to spend much time in Dragon Shape if at all, and I remember horror stories about playing a non-dragon shaping pure druid from another player a while ago. Monk seems a sort of a literal godsend for this concept, as it actually does both fit the diety I had and mind and gives the boosts for run-speed and AC. _________________
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 9:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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As far as I know, incoming attacks pass through concealment, then AC, then Epic Dodge, then Parry, so Epic Dodge will just remove once chance to Riposte.
I've never used it live, but it looks like its best use is facing melee Clerics and Shadowdancers - Parry mode stays active if you don't move, so the usual flatfoot Knockdown from GS/HiPS will bounce off, and if you happen to be a Devcritter, you will look more badass than anyone ever if you Parry+DevRiposte a prancer that fast.
Any sensibly equipped Cleric will have the Fort to giggle at Dev, but they can kiss three attacks goodbye so the pace of the fight slows right down, which is bad news for the stoppystarty padres.
I don't doubt Mosh's test, but I suspect that his Devcrit Bard could just beat the crap out of his brother's WM by normal combat a lot quicker.
Druids...my guy is a Ffolk Druid29/Ranger1 Dragonshaper, but outwith the Abyss and bossfighting, he's actually better playing as a caster. With the humungo WIS modifier and Epic Evocation, his Earthquake/Sunburst spam is pretty brutal, and between DR from spells, decent HP and enough AC to block an acceptable percentage of flak, he can run doom circles safely enough.
Now that he's got Dragonshape, he's got a massive margin of error in terms of survivability.
Last edited by Uberuce on Mon, Aug 10 2009, 10:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 10:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Dev is the only way to do it. Oh and also it doesn't work against SD's.
You parry the first shot and they epic dodge the Riposte. Basically your looking at the most boring pvp possible
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 10:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Redo that DWD Rogue with epic dodge and the DR...
Give it parry!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 11:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Right. What Skills should a bard take?
Let's say he's a Human, with an Int Score of 12.
he's getting 24 Skillpoints at the first level, to max out 6 Skills.
I count Preform (1) Tumble(2) UMD(3) Spellcraft(4) Then i have two left. Should i, In your opinion, Try the "Parry" settings to further annoy the Weaponmasters, and go for the rest in +Healing, Or Anything else?
Ive got a few Question marks about how the Abilities should look on character Creation.
I've chosen a Durpari (+2Cha)(-1Str)(-1Con)
And The guy looks like
Str - 13 (will be 12)
Dex - 14
Con - 13 (will be 12)
Wis - 8
Int - 12
Cha - 16 (will be 18 )
Should i get Dev Crit on him, and lack spellslots? Or Go all out Charisma and put (level 3 blackguard) in the end?
Anything to survive those pesky Dev Critters!
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 11:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Way to burst my bubble Uce... if Parry comes after Epic Dodge then it's all kaput.
Looks like Gulio Ceasar is going to be a Dev Critter. He won't be a Bard. Maybe Parry built Fighter/WM. I know Ranger will give me the dual wield but it just doesn't fell right and I want the Imp. Two Weapon Fighting.
I do love the image of Dev. Riposte also.
EDIT: With the Dev Crit. Fighter/WM build is there any point in having Imp. 2 weapon Fighting or would a ranger level do the same thing?
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 12:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Muspelkvist wrote: Right. What Skills should a bard take? Well, Uce has a level 30 bard blueprint somewhere here, but I made mine for Durpari bards, as they're the most popular ones: Quote: The Bogplain Popstar
Starting stats:
14 STR
10 DEX
14 CON
8 WIS
14 INT
16 CHA
Starting stats after activating the Durpari subrace:
13 STR -> 20 by natural ability increases
10 DEX
13 CON
8 WIS
14 INT
18 CHA
Pre-epic feats: Weapon Proficiency (martial), Knockdown, Extend Spell, Curse Song, Weapon Focus (longsword), Improved Critical (longsword), Maximise Spell, Improved Knockdown
Epic feats: Epic Weapon Focus (longsword), Armour Skin, Blind Fight (yes, it's worth an epic feat),
Epic bonus feats: Lasting Inspiration (23 bard), Epic Skill Focus: Perform (26 bard), Epic Skill Focus: Listen (29 bard)
Skills: Perform 33, Discipline 33, Listen 33, Concentration 33, Tumble 30, UMD 15, Spellcraft 29, Taunt 11, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Set Trap 1, Disable Trap 1, Pick Lock 1
It's the dummy's guide! Of course it can be altered to your own liking. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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AmianPlayer
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Posted: Mon, Aug 10 2009, 12:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: GMT+2
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I tried and guess what ... I failed
bard21/SD7/rog2.
problemo 1 : skill points. I start with 14 INT, and I still have my doubts. I try to max hide, ms, set trap(for epic traps) , disable trap(to recover them), tumble (30 ranks) and perform. Which skill to ESF? and I also need search, to actually find the traps...
problemo 2 : feats. I go offensive (weapon focuses, specializations, weap. finesse) or more passive (ESFs, Armor skin etc)?
Can that build work decently with a sword, of will I be limited to the "bow, then lure them in the trap zone" thing?
Yeah, for one more time ... I'm totally clueless =D
_________________
-Starless_Day_Dawning.
[*]Naethar Olderon
[*]Risenth Zagavar
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