AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Explanation this or that.. I'm not even worrying about that part. Any IC explanation will do, or even none at all. When it's about the health of the economy, I wouldn't mind a break in character if it meant a healthier system. People break character all the time for much sillier reasons.

Positive cash flow economy, with a modest cap, wherein the average 'spending' budget would increase on a per level basis. This would include a static consumable budget, allow room for growth of wealth for getting the next set of gear/spell pages.

The way to balance it for the adventuring economy would remove the ability for high volume merchants like Othokentir and I to do what we do without DM assistance, or further development of new tools/means that do not currently exist. (Actually allowing us to run our own shop with useful items.)

All gear except epic should be purchased from the a store. Stores should carry and service a set line of weapons for each character level, suited towards the typical generic builds. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of stores offering: Tier 0, 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.5, 4.8.

Example of weapons via tier:

0 = Plain stuff like currently on starter merchants.
0.5 = +1 Attack bonus, +1/1d2 elemental
1 = +1 enhancement, +2/1d4 elemental
1.5 = +1 enhancement, +2/1d4 elemental, keen
2 = +2 enhancement, +2/1d4 elemental, keen
2.5 = +2 enhancement, +3/1d4 elemental, keen, 1d4 mass crit.
3 = +3 enhancement, +3/1d6 elemental, keen.
3.5 = +3 enhancement, +3/1d6 elemental, keen, 1d6 mass crit.
4 = +4 enhancement, +3/1d6 elemental, keen
4.5 = +4 enhancement, +4/1d6 elemental, keen, +1d8 mass crit
4.8 = +4 enhancement, +4/1d8 elemental, keen, 1d8 mass crit
5.0 = Epic loot, detailed below

Gold should be the reward of treasure. Nothing to resell. That way the parties do not have to deal with the negative emotion associated with getting 'screwed' by a bad drop, and the hassle of haggling over it.

Furthermore onto the topic of Epic loot..

I personally think a 'Portion of a reward' system should be the value added. What I mean by this is Epic loot as it stands now is broken.

The only way to make the epic loot economy function is to 'free it up' or make it earnable over time with effort comes reward, you would also have to devalue the current hoarded epic loot must be made devalued at the same time you change the economy. You do this by lowering its peak rarity and increasing the chance that the every day joe has of making it to 30 and getting it, by working for it.

I believe a crafting system should be put in place, with drops from epic bosses, to -make- epic gear.

Each boss can have a drop of 1 scrap per party member:

Boss armor scraps
Boss broken weapon parts
Boss trinket scraps

10 Trinket scraps create: Rings, Necklace, Cloak
10 Armor scraps create, Boots, Armor, Helmet, Cloak
15 Weapon scraps creates, Weapon, 2h weapon, Shield

These base items are what are needed as the 'base' for epic loot.

Once you have gathered these scraps they then must be combined with expensive items purchasable from the high end stores, such as the Abyss store and then crafted. Consider these item blueprints, moulds for reforging.

Once this has been accomplished, other expensive items purchased from the same stores can then be used to tailor the weapon how you like it. Consider these enchantments in a bottle, or special gem crystals/mythals/artifacts or whatever you want to call them that you are adding to the weapon/imbuing/enchanting. Perhaps require the use of skilled tradesmen (PC's to do it.) Giving a use for Craft weapon/armor skills.

This would allow a -steady- and specific gold drain on player characters, allowing advancement, once they have reached level 30. And also allow for crafting of multiple pieces to fit their needs.

Epic loot has, in reality, nothing to do with the inflation.

Nothing at all.

The inflation is measured by most through the increasing value of epic loot. That is a PC created market, and the inflation in it is caused by a never ending stream of incoming gold.

The inflation isn't exponential. The longer Amia exists, the more gold is put into the module.

The reason we're seeing accumulated gold, is because of time * (loot + gp - expenses).

Ever since Amia was created, the loot + gp has far exceed that of expenses.

Loot drops, do increase exponentially in value as you go up in levels.

That's why lowbies find it so hard to manage economically in the module, while epics start saving up on piles of gold.

Characters that have been here the longest, have usually had more time to save up on gp.

Those characters have often gathered a collection of epic items, which they sell off to new characters, and buy from new players, further increasing their wealth.

Gaining 2-3 million gp isn't difficult. A lot of new characters have more than 1½ million by the time they're level 30.

So, with that, the solution is simple.

Nerf the loot + gp (or increase the expenses) and you'll eventually reach a level where it all balances out.

At the same time, implement something that drains the gp of those already wealthy.

Soon, you'll have a healthy economy.

Nekhy wrote:

The work is hardly an issue, it's the bitching and whining that is the major issue. The staff is more than ready to do some fixing, once you the playerbase think you're ready to accept the unavoidable sting that follows at first.

You could avoid the sting entirely with a creative solution, in that you want to make the people who need to be affected want to be affected.

I sy come up with some DM event to implement the changes to fix the inflation, and make it all IC. That way people will just have to Roll with the Punches.

I don't know where anyone said Epic loot is the cause, its just the object that shows inflation first hand.

The attrition of gold spending exists because there is nothing useful for post level 20 character that have abyss loot to buy from the module.

Spending money -is the issue-.

My earlier post, the portion outlining epic loot would work, quite nicely. It has several bonuses:

1. Gets people adventuring, with something to work for.

2. Gets people who are adventuring to lay down cash that dissapears out of the economy.

3. It rewards people who are adventuring with post lvl cap advancement.

4. Draws money out of the economy because there is something desireable to do with it -other- than just buying potions.

5. There's no fighting over loot. People earn, and make what they want eventually. A time, and gold sink. This fosters group adventuring as well.

The only way I could think of maybe improving it is to make the drops of scraps not trade-able, and them auto-dispensed to each party member on boss kill. The final product could be once its been 'moulded' could possibly be tradeable. Scrap requirements could also be increased to where its something that is more closely in line, considering everyone is getting 1 scrap each kill.

Maybe 15 for jewelery/armor and 20 for Weapon. Keeping in mind thats just for the base item, and you're spending probably around a million gold per each 'enchantment' you'd be adding to it. As long as these enchantments were on par with what is capable of epic loot that exists at the moment with mythalling.

Neus Scario wrote:

You could avoid the sting entirely with a creative solution, in that you want to make the people who need to be affected want to be affected.

There's plenty of ways to soften the hit, but I seriously doubt it can be avoided entirely. But that's just because of how people are, not just Amians. Some will be happy, some will settle for it eventually, and some will be angered and quit banging doors.

Even the DM staff is not unanimously happy about harsh methods (far from it), while we agree that it would be good to do something about it. What that something is, is the next step in discussion, if we decide to proceed.

Neus is right though.

There's no need to flat out strip all characters of their gp, when there are indeed ways to creatively have the characters spend the gp themselves.

With the players knowing that there is a huge money reform on the horizon, I wonder how many of these people would have their characters spend all their GP out of free will towards some cause, instead of just hoarding it ("In three months everyone spent their money and mine will have 10x the value!"). A thing that you can't prevent them from doing, unless you force the decision in which case... I don't see why there has to be a player decision in the first place.

Also I agree with the people that say epic loot doesn't have anything to do with it, the prices for epic loot are merely the symptom of too much cash in the system. The cash comes from regular drops and merchants who pay for them.

Someone is going to end up at the bad end of the stick if that happens. Anyone above the 'limited Cash floor' is going to take it.

I do not want me to be that person. I would take it, only if my means/purpose of RPing my Merchant PC is not taken away in the process, that is my largest concern.

If the changes take that away that viability, it will affect me in a way I am not okay with. I'm completely willing to try to help.. but this is something I did for a good amount of time. It renewed my interest in the server to all-time-high levels. If that is taken away it will be a very bitter pill.

If it is balanced evenly, it can be 'fair' by a direct shrinking of the hoard overall and increase coin rarity. Hoarded items would self-adjust in gold price over time, if the cap of gold is not too low.

I suggested several months ago that all NPC merchants have a buy-cap of 10,000. It's a simple solution that doesn't require a massive overhaul of the system we have, but at epic levels it keeps high-value drops from having too much influence on cash influx.

The problem is with money not leaveing the economy.

If i got a PC merchant and pay 3 million for a Perfect Mythal, that 3 million didny go anywhere, just changed hands.

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

I suggested several months ago that all NPC merchants have a buy-cap of 10,000. It's a simple solution that doesn't require a massive overhaul of the system we have, but at epic levels it keeps high-value drops from having too much influence on cash influx.

Yup. That's an easy solution.

I might even go as far as to say that there should be a 5'000 gp cap.

Most of the +4 bin is between 10-15k in value atm, when sold to an NPC merchant.

A year ago or so now, I guess, I put together a very large post about this with options. I've come to realize that the most extreme option is actually the only "fix" to inflation.

You may say, "Yes, we can" but the minute you realize micromanaging the economy's inflation through the proper measures would also nerf your mechanical numbers, you'll be whistling a different tune.

Dwagin wrote:

Someone is going to end up at the bad end of the stick if that happens. Anyone above the 'limited Cash floor' is going to take it.

Totally. I've got a merchant PC myself and it would really sting. Merchant PCs aren't exclusively about the big-time money, but money here is direct reward for their RP. For those people, it sucks. There's just no convenient way to let people keep their rewards and still rectify the economy with a strict hand.

I was advocating taking all the money, anyways. No cash floor. *cough*

As already stated, the problem is that there is more gold put into the module than what is taken out, and thus you will have inflation no matter what you do. Its like the bank printing more and more bills, which only results in each bill being worth less.

To keep inflation at zero you would have to have a fixed amount of gold in the module, which would be quite impossible.

As I see it, any attempt to decrease inflation will cause more whining than its worth really.

Darth wrote:

Most of the +4 bin is between 10-15k in value atm, when sold to an NPC merchant.

Um.

Maybe with no appraise.

>.>

I've merchanted things to the gnome before for 40k gold.

..Probably could manage upwards of 60 for some.

Most average at 15-20k+ for +4 bin.

cept the new random items.

Yossarin wrote:

You may say, "Yes, we can" but the minute you realize micromanaging the economy's inflation through the proper measures would also nerf your mechanical numbers

What's that suppose to mean?

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

I suggested several months ago that all NPC merchants have a buy-cap of 10,000. It's a simple solution that doesn't require a massive overhaul of the system we have, but at epic levels it keeps high-value drops from having too much influence on cash influx.

This sounds good!

(I don't care if its OCC its a solution)

Well, it's a perfectly legitimate IC solution too. Merchants go "I don't have that much Cash on Hand, or I get taxed too much if I pay more than this. Take it or leave it, final offer."

Best part is that PC merchants will be able to offer competitive Buy-Prices for gear.

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

I suggested several months ago that all NPC merchants have a buy-cap of 10,000. It's a simple solution that doesn't require a massive overhaul of the system we have, but at epic levels it keeps high-value drops from having too much influence on cash influx.

That just leaves the issue of those who already have millions of gold - they'll be the only ones that can afford epic gear since they'll be the only ones with vast stockpiles of money, and since they'll be trading amongst eachother the money won't go down very quickly, leaving a vast gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

That said, it's a better solution than nothing.

What of just saying that gold isn't gold but instead the far more common worth a lot less, copper pieces or what ever unit of currency is the lowest amount?

herkles wrote:

What of just saying that gold isn't gold but instead the far more common worth a lot less, copper pieces or what ever unit of currency is the lowest amount?

That drops your money by two orders of magnitude.
Those surviving alright on 20k now only have 200 gold, not enough for the potions they use. They only lose 19 800 gold, though - the guy with 20 mil is brought down to 200k and loses 19 800 000 gold.

To me that doesn't seem fair.

Note in this example, I'm toward the poor end of the scale

It's already almost impossible to fix the economy in a way that makes it interesting again, I can gaurantee it's impossible to do so in a fair way. Someone will lose out. C'est la vie.

That's the issue with capitalism - you get money for the work you do, so in essence you deserve the money you got.

I hate the thought that Player A who worked really hard for their money loses 100 times as much money as Player B who did sod all and their money was just a side effect of levelling.
And in this example I'd be Player B.

That's why you don't just flat out remove the gp from characters.

You have the characters trade it in for something else, or spend it or something worthwhile, that still gets the gp out of the module.

Mr Mago wrote:

That's why you don't just flat out remove the gp from characters.

You have the characters trade it in for something else, or spend it or something worthwhile, that still gets the gp out of the module.

I agree with that, but the main problem is slowing the inflow.

There are existing gold sinks. Potions, Scrolls, Equipment, Healing Kits, Donations, Building Materials etc. It's not as if there's not enough to spend money on.

It's a material balance problem. Input - Output = Accumulation. Disco's Idea would be to remove accumulation altogether. Mine would be to reduce input.

If gold input goes down, Accumulation will either decrease or "output" will. Either people have less gold, or people have less healing potions and magic scrolls.

Even if we slow the rate of accumulation of gold down... over time, as long as people continue to hunt with the same 1 year old character and save gold, we'll return to the same state of things.

Those same players that can play in the player economy, will. Those who can't, won't. I don't see any problems with it to be honest - there's nothing to fix. If you want epic loots, you save up enough money to be able to buy them. A WF scimitar just went up for 3M, for example.

What else would you need gold for? NPC merchants don't raise prices. All a level 30 would need for gear, they will get in their course of going to 30. Factions with 6-10 people won't have a problem with purchasing something for 20M. My main toon runs around with just ~250K and it doesn't bother me one bit.

A single run at Spires yields about... 200k*
So that's roughly 15 Spires run for a WF Scimitar, spread it out in 5-8 resets(days), and it's manageable. Congrats, you are now a proud owner of a WF scimitar.

*30 spawn points x 6 mobs a spawn = 180 creatures.
5% of which would drop a loot = 9 loots
25k per loot = 225000
less 25k worth of potions = 200000

The last auction I bought from was to Warrick. For 3 million gold pieces to be spent on South Cordor. That cash is gone. Completely.

Now I totally agree with this. I will boss hunt. I will sell epic loot. I will donate that cash from that epic loot straight back into my PC's chosen home (Djedet). With the right RP should the DM's reward my time + effort in boss hunting + selling + time + RP with improvements to where my character lives. I believe so, but i am not a DM.

Do i think you should pay an upkeep of gold for your faction area. Yes I do especially if your faction area has NPC guards.

Do I think the Market boxes should have a 5 thousand gold surcharge or gold/per level charge to open. Yes I do.

Do i think that loot should be capped on sale. Yes i do. Capped to 15000 + Appraise +/- Racial Bonus.

Getting 200gp from a monster drop? Try getting 20gp for a firegiant.

DM markets offering interesting items and DM auctions with no gold limit on price.

Should I have to go out and hunt, repeatedly, just to support my RP? Whether it be a faction area, merchanting it up, or simply RPing?

I'd certainly hope not.

That's why it's generally better to decrease income, rather than increase expenses.

WonWon wrote:

Should I have to go out and hunt, repeatedly, just to support my RP? Whether it be a faction area, merchanting it up, or simply RPing?

I'd certainly hope not.

You do anyway, its an inherent part of an Adventure RPG. If your in a faction it means you are by and large competing against other factions. That means you need to be looking for gold, to buy arms, to get epic loot from bosses etc etc etc.

Regardless i do believe that a CAP on item sales is a good idea. 10 -15k and those that invest in Appraise get a bonus on top of that.

Increasing tertiary / non-required expense is typically the key. Something for people to spend their money on to make something else easier, -however-, without making it a requirement.

EG. Pay X gold and get PrettyDamnGoodBuffY for DurationZ. Relative to the gold paid.

Mr Mago wrote:

That's why it's generally better to decrease income, rather than increase expenses.

If this double posts apologies.

You can't decrease income significantly to make a difference. If you do people with 5 million + will just hold onto it. Rather than spending 8 hours farming loot, they'll spend 16 hours farming loot.

The only way to significantly effect the economy is to increase expenses and decrease income until you reach a minor profit equilibrium.

I do recall one thing though that i was hugely in favor of.

Remove the gold cap on death. Enough boss hunters i know just respawn when they die and take the 40k hit.

I wouldn't mind seeing a gp cost added for the use of raise dead scrolls. At least for ECL 30.

As in, someone uses a raise dead scroll on you when you're max level, and you're docked with 20k, or something similar.

The problem, as always, with the respawn button, is that exceedingly few actually use it.

Most would just rather log onto a different character, and wait for a reset before logging in again, in order to get a free raise in the entry.

MoshingChris wrote:

Do I think the Market boxes should have a 5 thousand gold surcharge or gold/per level charge to open. Yes I do.

So no one uses the boxes, and just do what they used to do, standing around?

MoshingChris wrote:

Do i think that loot should be capped on sale. Yes i do. Capped to 15000 + Appraise +/- Racial Bonus.

I agree with the idea, not necessarily the numbers.

MoshingChris wrote:

Getting 200gp from a monster drop? Try getting 20gp for a firegiant.

I agree with this to (again, in principle).

As for faction areas, I don't mind paying gold to expand them, but paying gold to upkeep them sounds a little harsh.

Mr Mago wrote:

The problem, as always, with the respawn button, is that exceedingly few actually use it.

Most would just rather log onto a different character, and wait for a reset before logging in again, in order to get a free raise in the entry.

I say just apply the penalty as an autoraise if you log in to the entrance dead.

As for removing the 40k cap, I agree with this too - then you can have the Morgan and Sons or whatever it is charge for deposits and withdrawal if you like.

Yurell wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

The problem, as always, with the respawn button, is that exceedingly few actually use it.

Most would just rather log onto a different character, and wait for a reset before logging in again, in order to get a free raise in the entry.

I say just apply the penalty as an autoraise if you log in to the entrance dead.

As for removing the 40k cap, I agree with this too - then you can have the Morgan and Sons or whatever it is charge for deposits and withdrawal if you like.

no the cap should stay and as for the geting raised on server restart they should not have to pay.

we test stuff and changes are on going peoplee should not have to get screwed for a oversight, anyone remember when they made mimics and it ate all your items?,underwater zones and you would drown(I was undead form I died afew times helping test and they fixed it)

as for the on reset I'm cheap I would lay where I died for 10hours if I had to till someone finds me but we dont have that option.

We'll ignore the latter point for now, and focus on the former - removing the cap.

Removing it would a) drain money from the economy, b) allow for other means to drain money fro the economy (bank charges at Morgan and Sons' is an example) and c) punish everyone equally for a respawn, instead of a lvl 30 who at the moment has no penalty (40k is pittance).

I would even be happy with the cap disappearing upon attaining ECL 30.

Can you please state why it should not be removed?

Yurell wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Do I think the Market boxes should have a 5 thousand gold surcharge or gold/per level charge to open. Yes I do.

So no one uses the boxes, and just do what they used to do, standing around?

People still use rentable houses and they have a large gold charge on them?

Five thousand is a tad excessive sure.

But i don't think 50 -100gp/level to use boxes that you can effectively camp the entire reset is gonna bust the bank of any character. Or a slow gold drain of 2gp/minute will bust the bank on any character.

By the way, here's the previous topic on the Amian Economy - Worth Adjusting? All 12 pages of it.

And another one with 6 pages of comments on Utterly sick prices

FYI.

Yurell wrote:

We'll ignore the latter point for now, and focus on the former - removing the cap.

Removing it would a) drain money from the economy, b) allow for other means to drain money fro the economy (bank charges at Morgan and Sons' is an example) and c) punish everyone equally for a respawn, instead of a lvl 30 who at the moment has no penalty (40k is pittance).

I would even be happy with the cap disappearing upon attaining ECL 30.

Can you please state why it should not be removed?

why should reaching level 30 mean you should have to pay a ungodly amount, and like I said your forcing them to respawn, let me sit in a zone for 10hours dead I dont care, and like I said bugs happen and testing your screwing over level 30s.

lower the gold coming in and it will slowly weed out peoples money and DMs know what people want if they want to lower a select persons gold they know how to entice the person to do it willingly.

the people who are poor are offen the ones sitting around doing huggle crap, a fat person is not going to lose weight sitting on his butt its how he got there, why should poor people become less poor doing the same thing.

heal potions are what 3k each, if the player needs to shave off 24mil thats 8000 heal potions, 10 a stack so 800 stacks, each box could hold 14stacks so what 58 boxxes to hold all the potions.

Last edited by Selmak on Mon, Aug 03 2009, 5:54 AM, edited 1 time in total.

You don't have equipment damage and repair bills.

Not like you want that in NWN anyway, but expenses incurred because of adventuring do make some kind of sense.

My suggestion would be to tax any items which go in the chest slot of your inventory, based on level requirement. The higher the level requirement, the higher the cost. So, clothing and armour which don't have any magical properties would cost 1 GP.

This tax would be assessed just once for each reset that a character is logged in. However until you pay your tax, merchants will only offer half price for your stuff. If you're hard up and have tax to pay, they know they can get it off you for less. If you have enough to pay, then you can pay your tax and then go see merchants to get your normal rate for loot.

The reason I suggested just the chest slot items is because although it's possible to carry around lots of different expensive armour, in practise the average player might only need one or two, and maybe some assorted clothes. If they really need to store more armour there's always Morgan's.

Obviously if you didn't go adventuring all the time, you wouldn't need to sell things to a merchant all the time and thus you wouldn't need to pay tax every reset. It's crude, but an effective way of making your adventuring time cost something.

corypx wrote:

Yurell wrote:

We'll ignore the latter point for now, and focus on the former - removing the cap.

Removing it would a) drain money from the economy, b) allow for other means to drain money fro the economy (bank charges at Morgan and Sons' is an example) and c) punish everyone equally for a respawn, instead of a lvl 30 who at the moment has no penalty (40k is pittance).

I would even be happy with the cap disappearing upon attaining ECL 30.

Can you please state why it should not be removed?

why should reaching level 30 mean you should have to pay a ungodly amount, and like I said your forcing them to respawn, let me sit in a zone for 10hours dead I dont care, and like I said bugs happen and testing your screwing over level 30s.

lower the gold coming in and it will slowly weed out peoples money and DMs know what people want if they want to lower a select persons gold they know how to entice the person to do it willingly.

the people who are poor are offen the ones sitting around doing huggle crap, a fat person is not going to lose weight sitting on his butt its how he got there, why should poor people become less poor doing the same thing.

heal potions are what 3k each, if the player needs to shave off 24mil thats 8000 heal potions, 10 a stack so 800 stacks, each box could hold 14stacks so what 58 boxxes to hold all the potions.

You completely ignored the question. First of all, I asked what is wrong wit removing the cap in itself, ignoring the forced respawn. And only affecting level 30s was a concession I was willing to make.
Your only defence so far has been that the game occasionally bugs. A reasonable response, were it not for the fact you don't have to have that money on your person - I believe Morgan and Sons can store gold. If not, I'm sure that an equivalent can be made.

Yurell wrote:

You completely ignored the question. First of all, I asked what is wrong wit removing the cap in itself, ignoring the forced respawn. And only affecting level 30s was a concession I was willing to make.
Your only defence so far has been that the game occasionally bugs. A reasonable response, were it not for the fact you don't have to have that money on your person - I believe Morgan and Sons can store gold. If not, I'm sure that an equivalent can be made.

lets see if you remove the cap then people who are not powerbuilds and die alot are screwed and you think lowbies have it bad now with high levels in thier zone, you people wont get past level 20 because high people will all be raping mid level zones.

as I'm sure you have looked at lot of the B-mia threads people looking around and get PWNED you think removing the cap would help that.

I have never used Morgan and Sons I have a faction base if I needed to place my stuff away I would do so there, but because of the muling rule that would be kind of hard to IC store my stuff without braking a rule.

The problem with Amia's economy currently (and why it is so damned hard to fix) Is that jobs are NOT mandatory to, well, live. Sure, those forest guys wouldnt have to get money to live.. but really, we would have to base the whole *censored* server on jobs and regular crap without doing something drastic(sp?). And seeing as though Amia is an RP lite server, no jobs or actual sleep schedules needed... well its not going to happen.

But i do think that those merchant buy caps are good. Maybe just reduce the buying of every item, and have it rather so that certain merchants just dont have the money to buy items? e.g. Hilrash can spend max of 100,000gp on any single item, and for some unknown reason hates every single race 10% more?

corypx wrote:

lets see if you remove the cap then people who are not powerbuilds and die alot are screwed and you think lowbies have it bad now with high levels in thier zone, you people wont get past level 20 because high people will all be raping mid level zones.

as I'm sure you have looked at lot of the B-mia threads people looking around and get PWNED you think removing the cap would help that.

I have never used Morgan and Sons I have a faction base if I needed to place my stuff away I would do so there, but because of the muling rule that would be kind of hard to IC store my stuff without braking a rule.

Okay, so your defence is that non-powerbuilds (mineself would belong in this category) have a tendency to die a lot. Now, let us have a look at the process - unless one is a 'powerbuild' one in unlikely o have more than 400 000 gold until the mid-teens, so the change would not affect these people.

Now the question is - does one need to carry more than 400 000 gold with them? What would you send it on? Most PC merchants would be happy to wait for you to go to the bank, so that's not a problem.

Using Morgan and Sons to store the excess makes sense, and should one choose not to, I see no reason why they should avoid these penalties which otherwise benefits the economy in ways I have already detailed.

Quote:

a) drain money from the economy, b) allow for other means to drain money fro the economy (bank charges at Morgan and Sons' is an example) and c) punish everyone equally for a respawn, instead of a lvl 30 who at the moment has no penalty (40k is pittance)

c) is especially important because it is the 'top end' that is providing most of the income.

Edit: I'd thought I'd add an addendum - How much money do these non-powerbuilds have if removing the cap hurts them so much?

Selmak wrote:

snip

This hurts dedicated PC merchants more than anyone else. Most of the wealth of epic farmers comes from PC trades, not selling to merchants anyway.

Elective cash sinks that enable people to get useful things out of them. So far I've not seen many suggestions that foster this.

There are a few ideas that come to mind:

Paying cash to use the portal wand/Using a portal wand portal instead of mythals.

Allow customized description Name/editing as an IC service for items, expensive.

'Gambling' for items, ALA Diablo II.

Faction Stronghold upgrades, be they guards/merchants.

My previous Epic item crafting dealio.

'Bob the Plane Striding Merchant', that sells tier 4.5kit, that appears somewhere in the module, think the Abyss store, but never inthe same place, stock it with gravy things, but also with high prices to make it more of a 'Ooh I found him!' thing, opposed to something to resell.

Player run town/city. Taxes, Income, outlay, founding government. et al. I could see this working somewhere on B especially.

Yurell wrote:

Quote:

a) drain money from the economy, b) allow for other means to drain money fro the economy (bank charges at Morgan and Sons' is an example) and c) punish everyone equally for a respawn, instead of a lvl 30 who at the moment has no penalty (40k is pittance)

c) is especially important because it is the 'top end' that is providing most of the income.

Edit: I'd thought I'd add an addendum - How much money do these non-powerbuilds have if removing the cap hurts them so much?

40k is not a pittance to some level 30's, FYI, I know some people who habitually only manage around 300-400k total.

You wouldn't want to hear the apocalyptic fit I'd throw if I died and lost 2,000,000gp.

Dwagin wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Quote:

a) drain money from the economy, b) allow for other means to drain money fro the economy (bank charges at Morgan and Sons' is an example) and c) punish everyone equally for a respawn, instead of a lvl 30 who at the moment has no penalty (40k is pittance)

c) is especially important because it is the 'top end' that is providing most of the income.

Edit: I'd thought I'd add an addendum - How much money do these non-powerbuilds have if removing the cap hurts them so much?

40k is not a pittance to some level 30's, FYI, I know some people who habitually only manage around 300-400k total.

Ah, but don't forget - it is still only 10% of your gold, meaning that if you have under 400k you are not affected at all by the change.

Dwagin wrote:

You wouldn't want to hear the apocalyptic fit I'd throw if I died and lost 2,000,000gp.

Then I would ask why you, aware of this rule (presumably in this hypothetical situation), were carrying 20 millions gold on your person? You could have deposited most of it at Morgan and Sons', and there is nothing in a dangerous area that would require such a large sum.

Inflation on amia

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