So I gots a question. I fight folks all the time, and as in any fight, heal pot chugging makes me roll my eyes. Now, this is just a standard practice in Amia anymore, so this isn't a complaint, more along the lines of a curiosity. Because, cheesy as it is, there's one class that makes it even cheesier.

If palemasters are allowed the traits of an undead creature, IE being immune to sneak attacks and crits...why does a heal pot heal them? Why wouldn't it hurt them, or at the very least, react with the part of them that has become undead and not heal them as much? Or..some such. Just curious.

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It probably would hurt them. But it's not really viable to penalise someone like this when you can't get negative energy pots.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

because simple fact.. they aren't undead.. they are undead try hards. are you saying drawven defenders don't get sneaked.. shoudl they have to do the same thing.. they take a pentatly in becoming totally ass at spell casting.. and only the lame "fighter"ones.. who are like "OMG.. Stand still you barn" can actually be effective so next class to flame? Rdd..

According to the 3.5 Libris Mortis a PM doesn't become undead, therefore Heal shouldn't harm her / him.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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still trying

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

If we were comparing them to straight undead, they should also only have .5 attack progression.

Just get a mage and kill the melee PM. Gtg.

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

Getting a mage kills every thing. They are the universal answer to everything.

so true.

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Gianan Wing - Wandering Priest of Akadi
Rente Galenson - Halruaan Wizard

Bless weapon should do more damage to pms... or maybe allows them to be crit, that would be neato

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

I think it's rather simple to script the Bless weapon to deal damage versus Palemasters. Then again, I don't know much about scripting. Nothing at all, truth be told.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

I do think that something needs to be done about the concept of a caster who has focused so heavily on necromancy that he decides to graft a skeletal arm to himself... And then picks up a scimitar/tower shield. I don't really see the RP connectivity with that.

NO cheese No cheese No cheese! *parades around in his undies holding a sign*

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Really, I think its best to just live and let live. The build is already poor in PvP. Not sure why witch hunts for it to be nerfed is needed. And besides, RP can always be justified. Dont see why a player's PC's RP has to be subjected to policing by another player. Abit ludicrous.

Indeed rp can be justified... and I know a few whom do... but its not just a few there are hords of these melee palemasters and most are of some strange neutral alignment... I think people should indeed just go for a nice necromantic pale master instead of a 18-20 crit weapon dev-critter.

they could fear death or want more power, if anyone played Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn the person named Bodhi intentionally became undead(vampire) and palemaster is a close as undead as most people will ever get on Amia.



also its good in PVP, with the rate people chug heal potions, players lose about all burst damage because of no sneak attack or crits on them, so the defence it gives you more outways the loss of attack power.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I wasn't trying to incite a "witch hunt" or anything, but I don't believe that the character is built for RP cool-points so much as "I'm tired of getting dev critted, screw this, I'ma build a PM fighter."

You're right though, offensively they have a habit of sucking something fierce.

Just saying, that ideally, it would take some measure of necromantic knowledge to graft a bone arm onto yourself and be considered, to any point, undead. It isn't as simple as buddying up with a vampire and saying "Hey dude, vamp me up so's I can throw a punch a lot better." It was my understanding that a Palemaster was the epitomy of necromantic razzle-dazzle, and I can't fathom the RP justification of that same individual becoming a swordsman. I think it's just another lame method of making your character hard to kill.

If I'm just flat-out wrong, alright, and again, I'm not trying to incite a riot. Just saying that I think it's silly.

You musn't have saw that Fighter/Bard/PM, DEV critter, with 45+ AB and 55+ AC unbuffered. Don't ask me how they did that, I don't know myself, but they did..

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

I know a few melee PM type characters in game and they RP their characters quite well. Just because not everyone sees that role play doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I don't enjoy going up against anyone with that type of build but I give them credit for building their character as strong as they have. As long as it flows with the rp and doesn't conflict with alignment or how they play their alignment what diference should it make?

The builds that irritate me are the characters that worship a good aligned deity and play a PM or the ones that worship an evil deity and play a Champion of Torm because they have a neutral morality and can take the classes with it.

Necromancers are evil and CoT are supposed to be given power from a good natured diety. So a chaotic neutral worshipper of Sune should not be allowed to be a PM in the same way a chaotic neutral worshiper of Cyric should not be allowed to be a CoT.

But as long as they have some type of RP supporting Their build I can't really fault a person for building that way. Afterall This is a game. Some people play to have fun and be social and others play to win. Either way if your character is killed by one of these or one of these builds don't forget all you have to do is ressurect, brush some dirt off you and be on your way. It's not like there is corpse looting after PVP on Amia. All you do is loose a little time and maybe gain some interesting RP from the fight.

Why should all these things happen? A PM is not undead, does not have the vulnerabilities of an undead.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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One thing that grates on my nerves is when people take the PM class for their cheese build, and just ignore any conflict lore or RP with it. I have no issue with you resorting to the gutter of building and making the PM melee build, but don't ignore the RP & lore that goes with it. After all, we typically should be able to see the disgusting changes to your outward appearace E.G. Undead-like Skin, Skeletal hand, Bad breath, Overbearing need to wear black robes. etc etc.

Edit: Also, as an example of conflict lore. If you serve Kelemvor, and have a PM class, you cannot claim the hand is a gift from Kelemvor and the skin doesn't exist. As the class is a complete conflict on Kelemvor's lore I believe. Espically how those feats are gained. Yuck.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

16 fighter/2 bard/12 pm

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Yeah, if you get the bonuses you have to live with the penalties - bone arm, mummified skin etc.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Stock answer, reposted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've sometimes been tempted to make a character that actually roleplays what 95% of melee Palemaster/RDDs do OOCly.

"Yeah, I started off as a skald, y'know, bit of magic, bit of song, plenty of swordplay, the one day I saw this skinny old geezer in a robe get knifed right in the throat by a bandit that had nipped up behind him. Doddery git that he was, he barely even flinched! I know my around good knifework, believe you me, and that bandit had the blade right into his voicebox, just as slick as you like.

I said to myself "I gotta learn how he did that, that'd be brilliant in a scrap" and after he turned the bandit into a little puddle of burnt grease, I got talking to him and he sent me in the direction of Tarkuul.

So, I spent a fair bit of time in the library and laboratories there, and I gotta tell you, it's a bit grim what you need to do; chopping up dead blokes and grafting chunks onto you. But, there's backstabbers everywhere and bloody great lads with the muscle to shove a sword right through your breastplate and come sticking out the other side, so sod it, I wanted some of that Deathless Mastery, so the Tarkuul books called it, and I'd do whatever it takes to get it.

I didn't really want to rush into it, as you might expect. While I was in among them books I found another little snippet I liked the sound of a bit more. Turns out those big bastards with the scales and wings and such that you see cuddling in the rain in Cordor square got it when their grandpa was buggered by a dragon or somesuch, but the juicy bit is that all of us skalds probably got drop of it somewhere too. So I went back 'ome to see me Nan and asked her about her Nan and it turns out there's an old rumour of a Red what took a fancy to one of us, back in the day.

That was a damn sight more easy to swallow than the malarkey with the dead fellas; all I had to do was get into a dragony frame of mind, say a few prayers, that kind of thing. Soon as you know it, I'm eatin' like a bloody horse, assuming horses have a taste for extra-rare lamb and undercooked chicken. Started biting my tongue all the time, mind. Bit of extra canine going on, which I could without, frankly, but I kick like a mule, so call it a trade.

Had to get all my armour refitted, the amount of beef I'd been putting on. Got hellish funny looks from the blacksmith when he was lookin at my skin up close. Said he could see scales on it, but I just smiled at him and told him not to ask. He shut up right quick after that.

So that was all lovely, and I was a good strong fella in a barney, but that ain't much use when there's a sword stick out your eye socket, so time came as I had to stick my chin out and get tore into the undead stuff.

Then I stepped it up a lot, and I got more and more leathery around the chops, which were already looking a bit girzzly. And then the books said I had to hack my whole bloody arm off. I looked all over the library to see if I could take a finger, or even a leg instead, but it's gotta be the arm, and it's gotta be the whole thing. Horrible, really. I can still feel my old arm itching from time to time, but scratching the new one does bugger all.

Getting all bony and leathery certainly helped in the battle department, but I was getting a little slow on my feet, so I went back to the skalding when I was almost done, to sharpen up my footwork, see?

Anyway, when I was almost all trained, and a couple of days after I'd done some heavy grafting work in the lab, my heart stopped. At first I was thinking, "Bloody hell, I'm only twenty-seven, what's all this?" but when I didn't keel over, I reckoned I must have got that Mastery thing right. Heart started back up again after an hour or so, mind. Still stops by itself every so often, which feels bloody strange but it doesn't slow me down much.

Not been so lucky with the ladies lately, sad to say. I can't say I'm surprised; between the scales on me dry old skin and the big chunks of bone in my gob as much as on my noggin, and that arm that'll kill you if you touch it wrong, I'm not too pretty any more.

And between you and me? It costs me a fortune in aftershave because, frankly, I smell terrible these days. "

Also, just to point this out, if you have mummified skin you are NOT going to be a pretty person. I'm sorry, but no race would consider mummified skin to be pretty, minus a few necrophiliacs. You can have all the CHA in the world, but that will not cover up the disgusting things you did to your skin to get it mummified. Translate your CHA to talking skills or something.

I've seen a few PM builds running around like this claiming they are great looking. It makes it worse when someone's character goes along with it, dispite the fact that this person would probably be uglier then Uce after an all night binge. (xD).

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

Ruce, you always make me laugh. Nice graphic storytelling.

@ Selvec - I agree completely.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

I declare myself 'ruggedly handsome' in such circumstances.

Hey! He's actually quite attractive after the fourtieth beer...

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Mostly Retired

40th beer? Id be in a stupor, or in a strangers house by then...

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

He's Australian. One of their beer's is the equilivent of ten normal beer's.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

My record of "still being able to form a tangible sentence" Is 29 beers (Victorian Bitter, thankyouverymuch).

I'm much better at spirits, though.

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Mostly Retired

That's one of us drinking is equivalent to 10 normal people drinking. Common misunderstanding of the adage.

And melee PMs smell; you would think that the backstory ideas come before the character class decisions.

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Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...

Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin

Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.

the_incognitos@live.com

You obviously pulled that out of nowhere. Cos if you actually tried making it, you'll realise that you need at least 3 bard levels to take PM levels.


that said, the ab of melee PMs are more often then not, crap. what usually occurs is "quaff truestike, attempt dev crit", which fails when anyone concerned enough about PvP gears up fort. Then it becomes "quaff heal pot till you get bored and run away"

Well I am no PM master myself but does the bone skin feat make your skin like bone or what the heck?

I was about to make a IC research results how my charecter gained the bone skin feat and was gona explain it like the bone under the skin got thicker, not really showing that much on the surface but the person would look more paler than before. But are they in truth mummified? <.<

Anyhow, you know some mages do use armors + shield, there is even a feat to allow that without arcane penalty. But I agree with the fact that lore is a must behind any build.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

just make it 14 fighter then, the ab wont be to bad i dont hink... take most the fighter levels preepic of course. You get im guessing 19 bab, say 14 str bonus, +wf, +2ewf, +1 prowess, +1 aid, +1 bless, +5 weapon = 44ab? Its not pwnage but when most melee types have 57ish ac with haste still can hit often enough i guess.

Survivability vs Damage

Cheese to beat Cheese...
Im tired of seeing rapier/scim wms, out of teh 200+ i seen on server (just a number I pulled from nowhere) Ive seen maybe 2 that 'act' like a wm, wither with the ki, or acting like its part of them.

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

From the Libris Mortis:



These are the only specified appearance changes.[/quote]

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

As far as heal pots go in PVP that is something you really need to discuss before the fight.
As far as the build goes their are by far many more builds out there that are far more powerful.

Having an "Cheese" Palemaster build I still feel my weapon master is still by far my strongest character.

Correction: Champions of Torm just need to be non-evil. In other words, neutral characters can become CoTs.

And don't forget that the PnP class' name is Divine Champion or Champion of [God's Name Here, Regardless of The God's Level As Long As You Are Not Evil Aligned].

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BlackDahlya

Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath