AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Well, what do faction tags represent? Do thy represent you are a member of a faction or that you are obviously a member of the faction?
I've always treated it as the latter unless someone emotes that they are not.

Again, drow houses I treat separate from this because it is a name, no a faction tag.

if you bothered to read the huge post I made, One part should stand out.

I think the one thing for "players" to think of is how easy on them it makes things to have these tags, especially in PvP instances. I've been on other servers that didn't have faction names in the tags. It is hard to put everyone hostile going through the player list, the PvP widget does make easier, but what if more than two factions are in a battle. Do you have to commit to memory or make a list of the names of people and what faction they are in...yeah basically you do, unless you send a tell and ask them if they are part of the battle(some just like to watch) and what faction they are in so you know whether to set them for hostile or not. This small point alone should take a moment of your time to think about. Of course if you ask someone and they tell you honestly what faction they are with all you have to do is write there name down in the journal and what faction they belong to, and that information could be metagamed at a later date. So having the faction above a toons head has more Pro's than Con's in my honest opinion.

Metagaming is going to happen, thats just life there is dishonest people and cheats and that's exactly what it is no matter how you slice it. It's bold faced cheating. If anything I think there should be a gold or xp penalty for someone who metagames and gets caught, maybe that would give an incentive not to cheat. So it wouldn't be a character penalty but more a player penalty, just the opposite of Dream Coins so to speak. Of course a screenshot would be needed to prove it. Say a penalty for non maxed characters of 1000xp/level and for maxed characters 100,000 gold. Yeah that seems steep but if it would cull the metagaming I'd go for it mainly because I don't cheat lol. Anyways it's just an idea.

Is it cheating? When I see a person in a faction I immediately assume:

Has no tag: Don't assume I'm in this faction unless I emote otherwise
Has a tag: Assume I'm in this faction unless I emote otherwise

Coming after them if they emote not having any markings is metagaming (and thus cheating) IMO, but otherwise it seems fair game, as the simple mechanics of NWN won't allow you to decorate your armour with holy symbols, put the symbol of you god on your cloak, let you wear that special talisman, pin that medal to your chest etc.

I would say if they are in there faction colors or armor then they are showing a symbol that indicates the tag, if not then you should treat them as you know them or do not know them whatever the case may be. If they are always helmed when showing said colors or armor you wouldn't be able to know who they were if they were in normal gear or clothing or what they look like.

If you're wearing your faction armour you should be noticeable no matter what you emote IMO, otherwise that just reeks of metagaming.

Your advice consists of:
Has no tag: Don't assume I'm in this faction unless I emote otherwise
Has a tag: Don't assume I'm in this faction unless I emote otherwise

Which is perfectly reasonable and 'safe', I just don't like it.
IMO that is like advertising you're a necromancer OOCly to a bunch of Kellies while you laugh your head off because they can't metagame that info.

Last edited by Greyweaver on Fri, Jul 24 2009, 7:14 AM, edited 1 time in total.

my advice is play it as you see it, basically. Just use common sense lol. Alright I'll put in a disclaimer...lol if they are not in there faction colors or armor you as a character...play it as you see it. Don't play it as you see as a player but as the character your playing. In summary ignore the tags lol but they are useful to players for in game situations.

Greyweaver wrote:

Just use common sense lol.

[...]

you as a character...play it as you see it. Don't play it as you see as a player but as the character your playing.

Exactly what common sense and reasonable conclusion entail is what is being debated, especially since what "you as a character" can see is totally different to what you as a player can see.

added disclaimer to last post

What's all this talk about faction colours and armours?

The only faction armours or colours I widely recognize are those of Banites, Cyricists, Salandrans and the Cordorian guards.

War Knights might be included in that list.

So if you're a "Weave Knight" I'll just presume you're wearing something that indicates it well enough, since I don't have the slightest clue as to how the armour or colours of the Weave Knights look like.

Mr Mago wrote:

What's all this talk about faction colours and armours?

The only faction armours or colours I widely recognize are those of Banites, Cyricists, Salandrans and the Cordorian guards.

War Knights might be included in that list.

So if you're a "Weave Knight" I'll just presume you're wearing something that indicates it well enough, since I don't have the slightest clue as to how the armour or colours of the Weave Knights look like.

Probably not War Knights. Our colour's change every five minutes these days. We are better known for the Tag which kinda stands out.

Mr Mago wrote:

So if you're a "Weave Knight" I'll just presume you're wearing something that indicates it well enough, since I don't have the slightest clue as to how the armour or colours of the Weave Knights look like.

Noone has to "presume" anything. You can probably just send a polite Tell asking them if they look like they would be wearing something identifiable as such.

I don't really support the nametags, but I also don't see the reason to refuse people the chance of having them if they really want them.

However, that does not mean we should start assuming everyone with them wants you to know what they are. We should still try to be polite, realistic, and stay IC without Metagaming. Sending a Tell asking about it is probably the best way to do it.

Mr Mago wrote:

What's all this talk about faction colours and armours?

The only faction armours or colours I widely recognize are those of Banites, Cyricists, Salandrans and the Cordorian guards.

War Knights might be included in that list.

So if you're a "Weave Knight" I'll just presume you're wearing something that indicates it well enough, since I don't have the slightest clue as to how the armour or colours of the Weave Knights look like.

You should add the Kellies to that list. Along with the Salandrans and to some extent the banites, they're probably the easiest to recognize, unless something has changed very recently.

I just ignore name tags and RP what my character knows.

Heehehe wow this really did spiral into a interesting conversation didnt it, it be good to get some "official" clafifacation and the topic locked as i would really like Valkin Re-named sometime soon, but not if im going to get DM & players using it against me lol.

The faction name is just another OCC tool to see who of your faction is online and help with PVP conflict and i supose like i said befor it premoptes the faction and allow s certain "prepsitge" to them

I wanted to have all the members of my "inner" circle at least (renamed) so that others of the faction know who to get "Help" from and RP when requyired.

But really you cant say Factions names are IC ya might as well say we all are wearing names tages...i mean the name is there to right..

For what its worth, I've come to the conclusion that people will metagame just about everything and every telltale sign you have. If you want to field a faction presence, team up as a large group, dressed the same and walk about the lands. That usually gets heads turning.

Of course, it does work both ways.

For example, if my char is wearing a cape with a skull on it, I tend to get loads of grief off the goody-goodies screaming "cyricist!" and being actively hostile, until I have to tell them ooc that it's just a cape, the reason why it has a skull on it is because it looks cool.

Then about disguises, it's also quite easy to get around that even if they are in a proper disguise, example:

SPOT: You notice the person in front of you is consistently avoiding your gaze and has a slight nervous tick (he rubs the back of his neck when speaking). It is obvious to you that he is lying about who he is.

INDIMIDATE: you threaten the person with bodily harm, brandishing your sword, he reveals he is a Banite. Being a Triadic Knight, you decide to kill him.

One could ignore the opposed skill checks however, but you could argue that the other person is quite justified using their character's abilities. Elves for example could possibly "smell" the unease of the person they are talking to (keen senses). A wizard could charm you and have you reveal your alignment.

Even disregarding that, I could even say I have "seen" the character beforehand wearing the clothes of said faction, and they'd have no way to prove me wrong.

in reality, I feel the titles are moot anyway. One should ALWAYS have to perform a hostile action to provoke pvp. Simply being of one faction should not be justification for being attacked by a character of an opposing faction.

Past actions of you or your organization coming back to haunt you is a perfectly valid RP reason in my humble opinion.

Avidgamer wrote:

One should ALWAYS have to perform a hostile action to provoke pvp. Simply being of one faction should not be justification for being attacked by a character of an opposing faction.

I'm sure the Banites won't touch the guy wearing the symbol and colors of a Cyricist who manages to make his way into their inner sanctum and sit down to drink black tea. He's not performing a hostile action.

Yes Yossarin, they'd slay him fast... But because this is Amia and we dont wanna hurt feelings.. You cant kill them IC without their OOC permission correct?

If not its griefing or some other by-law?

I'm sure the Banites won't touch the guy wearing the symbol and colors of a Cyricist who manages to make his way into their inner sanctum and sit down to drink black tea. He's not performing a hostile action.[/quote]

But I did, and they didnt!

GreatPigeon wrote:

You cant kill them IC without their OOC permission correct?

Wrong. Used to be a rule, but not for ages. If they're being a bastard ICly, feel free to curbstomp them (so long as there's been sufficient RP ad you've given the a way to back down, of course).

Avidgamer wrote:

For example, if my char is wearing a cape with a skull on it, I tend to get loads of grief off the goody-goodies screaming "cyricist!" and being actively hostile, until I have to tell them ooc that it's just a cape, the reason why it has a skull on it is because it looks cool.

I know trying to tell one of my characters that the Holy Symbol of Cyric was just to make your cloak 'look cool' wouldn't earn any endearment.

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