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Meh, my characters that have a name tag of there faction have it because they are wearing an easily seen and known symbol of there faction. War Knight, Flaming Blade thing. You know them by sight and it is expected.

If you don't want people to know your character is a member of a faction, don't have the title in the name, honestly. I'll assume that it's public knowedge that people are a member of a faction if they have the title in the name.

In addition:
If you have the red wizard faction tag, and enter Cordor, expect to have a sword through your gut before you can say "I'm not a bad Red Wizard!". As it should be assumed it's public knowledge the character is a Red Wizard.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Meh, my characters that have a name tag of there faction have it because they are wearing an easily seen and known symbol of there faction. War Knight, Flaming Blade thing. You know them by sight and it is expected.

If you don't want people to know your character is a member of a faction, don't have the title in the name, honestly. I'll assume that it's public knowedge that people are a member of a faction if they have the title in the name.

That's what I assume the faction nametag signifies - you are suitably marked so that a passer by can tell even with a casual glance what you are.

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Meh, my characters that have a name tag of there faction have it because they are wearing an easily seen and known symbol of there faction. War Knight, Flaming Blade thing. You know them by sight and it is expected.

If you don't want people to know your character is a member of a faction, don't have the title in the name, honestly. I'll assume that it's public knowedge that people are a member of a faction if they have the title in the name.

That's what I assume the faction nametag signifies - you are suitably marked so that a passer by can tell even with a casual glance what you are.

Me too. Even if you emote not wearing clothes that show you as a Red Wizard. I could type my hostile reaction before you could finish emoting you are not looking like one.

A quick Q, so if someone has a faction in their name tag, is it safe to assume that denotes a rank/uniform/badge/faction insignia?

Cos its abit silly to bait for metagaming and then cry out. The names afterall are generally floating above a PC's head cos you cant recognise a PC OOCly (heads all look the same) when you should after knowing the fella or at least after seeing someone. You would recognise its the same guy you met the other day at the bread stall for example.

Sven wrote:

A quick Q, so if someone has a faction in their name tag, is it safe to assume that denotes a rank/uniform/badge/faction insignia?

Cos its abit silly to bait for metagaming and then cry out. The names afterall are generally floating above a PC's head cos you cant recognise a PC OOCly (heads all look the same) when you should after knowing the fella or at least after seeing someone. You would recognise its the same guy you met the other day at the bread stall for example.

Basically, this is what Selvec, Yurell and I are trying to say.

Even if the person is not wearing the uniform of his/her faction, we could metagame accidentally because we assumed their association would be known. And they could be too slow to type the emote of their disguise, thus nullifying our reactions if we acted hostile.

Faction names are a bad idea. Shadowflame/Drow Houses are actual names, not factions. But having things like 'Horseman' or 'Triadic Knight' isn't such a great idea.

If you do insist on having a faction name floating above your head, I feel it should be assumed that you are publically showing your affiliation with them IC, and that the knowledge is fair game to anyone who reads it.

It's very difficult to take it case by case, as some people have a tendancy not to mention whether they are wearing symbols or not until after someone has reacted to it.

Various reasons have been given for why people want them, and also why they shouldn't be there. Whatever the case, it's a huge form of metagaming and an open door for people to do it without realising it. For this reason, it either:
- Shouldn't be allowed at all, so that people are limited to their character's name and they are free to RP and show their affiliation with factions though RP.
OR
- It is allowed, with the condition that players are welcome to recognise the affiliation on sight.

In the case of Red Wizards, particularly because of Amia's history, they should deifnitely not have 'Red Wizard' in their names.

This is all just my opinion.

How would you feel about a drastic and questionable change in policy where, if you add a factional title to your name, it literally means you are IC'ly recognizeable as a member of that faction permanently? Really makes zero IC sense, but it would be amusing.

Yossarin wrote:

How would you feel about a drastic and questionable change in policy where, if you add a factional title to your name, it literally means you are IC'ly recognizeable as a member of that faction permanently? Really makes zero IC sense, but it would be amusing.

I'd go for that.
Just remember Marauth's point about Drow houeses etc.

Sure, I like the idea. If you have the title, assume that the person wears a symbol that easily seen and known. That's the payment you must pay for the name change if you ask me.

But personally in this situation I think everyone should stop enforcing their will on what Talia wants for his faction. If he wants tag's, then he should get them, wither everyone agrees or not. I'm sure he's aware of what will happen if his members are caught with the known symbols.

His choice as faction leader, so everyone else pike off.

Quote:

How would you feel about a drastic and questionable change in policy where, if you add a factional title to your name, it literally means you are IC'ly recognizeable as a member of that faction permanently? Really makes zero IC sense, but it would be amusing.

I'm horribly against this. It makes no sense. If you want the faction name in your name then let that be if you dont then dont. Its still OOC information and if you wanna be a ... and metagame it then go ahead and you will get a approiate response.

Last edited by Shrewd on Wed, Jul 22 2009, 6:09 AM, edited 2 times in total.

It makes sense. Faction tag = Having a visible symbol/whatever showing on your character. And that wouldn't be permanent, but merely until you decide to take it off. Alternatively, you could always just RP either showing a symbol of the faction or not showing a symbol of the faction, and get rid of the problem from the start.

It's just my personal opinion though, not something I'm going to argue about.

Faction tags promote metagaming. No faction tags would mean this doesn't happen unless people learn about the specific characters in factions.

Btw, I'm not proposing it. I'm just asking. It is the best way to find out how people think after all, right?

Nahh it certainly makes some sense to me, it should be policy then perhaps, i think we might forgo the name above the head stuff lol but we certainly will need to get our hands some some insignia/Tattoo that we can use in game to show another character, like the drow house etc.

Marauth wrote:

Faction tags promote metagaming. No faction tags would mean this doesn't happen unless people learn about the specific characters in factions.

I like faction tags.
My Salandran has a facion tag because one can tell at a glance she is a Salandran, and this information could come in useful. Imagine if I had to emote that every time someone came by. Especially in Cordor Square.
It's a lot easier just to have the tag.

Yossarin wrote:

How would you feel about a drastic and questionable change in policy where, if you add a factional title to your name, it literally means you are IC'ly recognizeable as a member of that faction permanently? Really makes zero IC sense, but it would be amusing.

Not wearing Tinnerai colors nor having the name tag was one of the reasons why I did not have those on Auron. But when he was wearing Tinnerai colors, he would emote such or just wear clothes in their color.

I think this is not a bad idea, Yossi.

But that's the thing: People who have tags want them so that they can be publically recognised. Salandrans can do that with their robes/dress code.

If you want to show people you are something, then it's fair enough to have it in your name or bio. It makes sense for people to be able to ICly recognise a Paladin of Torm, a Cleric of Salandra, or any other public figure. These types of people publically display their symbols and beliefs for all to see. The faction tag, in this case, makes plenty of sense.

In the case of a secret organisation, or even an evil organisation that doesn't want to have alot of attention brought to them, then it makes no sense to have the faction tag.

Yossarin's suggestion makes sense on an ease-of-use level for folks who want clear cut definitions. I'd be all for it if it wouldn't split the players into the select few who could "afford" to be known as a faction member at all times and the many, many people who wouldn't want to be exposed. To mind comes about every evil organization. It's an idea, but then I'd just go one step further and banish any and all faction denotions, titles and all the other gunk from the name field. Description fields are there for a reason. And the player list is no place to be looking for anything like that.

Problem with descriptions is that they are not as easily editable as the name tag. You can do a name change easy as in game via a DM. Takes not even two minutes and the DM doesn't have to do anything but port someone.

Description changes on the other hand involve leto I believe, or involve typing out masses of information. It's not an easy thing to do in game. If you decide to join an organization at a later date, and you want people to know you are a member, then you can't just change your description with ease. Names tag's you can change easily.

xordae wrote:

Description fields are there for a reason.

They're also harder and take longer to change, and are just as metagameable.

True, they're just as easy to metagame. I meant that Yossarin's "I belong to X faction and am recognizeable at all times" belongs in a description field. Brandings, symbols and etc. People who don't wear disguises.

xordae wrote:

True, they're just as easy to metagame. I meant that Yossarin's "I belong to X faction and am recognizeable at all times" belongs in a description field. Brandings, symbols and etc. People who don't wear disguises.

Ah. Well, the thing is, why would you have it in the name if it can't be recognised? That just teases people OOCly as surely as sending a paladin a tell listing every baby you've eaten.

Yurell wrote:

xordae wrote:

True, they're just as easy to metagame. I meant that Yossarin's "I belong to X faction and am recognizeable at all times" belongs in a description field. Brandings, symbols and etc. People who don't wear disguises.

Ah. Well, the thing is, why would you have it in the name if it can't be recognised? That just teases people OOCly as surely as sending a paladin a tell listing every baby you've eaten.

I'm going to do that right now! :twisted:

Yurell wrote:

xordae wrote:

True, they're just as easy to metagame. I meant that Yossarin's "I belong to X faction and am recognizeable at all times" belongs in a description field. Brandings, symbols and etc. People who don't wear disguises.

Ah. Well, the thing is, why would you have it in the name if it can't be recognised? That just teases people OOCly as surely as sending a paladin a tell listing every baby you've eaten.

Exactly. It should be there for people who want to be publicly recognized as a part of a certain faction. If you don't, then it shouldn't be there.

I've always considered faction tags offshoots of these:

Just an OOC way of showing off what you're part of. Sure it's metagameable, but what isn't?

Yurell wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

How would you feel about a drastic and questionable change in policy where, if you add a factional title to your name, it literally means you are IC'ly recognizeable as a member of that faction permanently? Really makes zero IC sense, but it would be amusing.

I'd go for that.
Just remember Marauth's point about Drow houeses etc.

Drow houses are usually recognised by their colours, aren't they?

Recognised by people who know their colours, atleast.

Anubis wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

How would you feel about a drastic and questionable change in policy where, if you add a factional title to your name, it literally means you are IC'ly recognizeable as a member of that faction permanently? Really makes zero IC sense, but it would be amusing.

I'd go for that.
Just remember Marauth's point about Drow houeses etc.

Drow houses are usually recognised by their colours, aren't they?

Recognised by people who know their colours, atleast.

Yes, although colours aren't mandatory, just like any noble house.

I personally am moving towards the last of the Eternal Order who have faction tags to slowly remove them. There are a few benefits, but the drawbacks outweigh them I believe. The largest factor is the intentional or unintentional metagaming (people just act differently if they see the tag flying around).

Its just not nice to rub that information under their nose, so either they regognize the group by uniform of symbols written in the bio's or they dont. I believe most groups use it as a uniform subsitute and to make some commericial for their own faction. If a new player who likes knights sees seven people on with the "Triadic Knight" tag, it will of course work wonders.

Hmm. So... for now on, I'll start responding to characters with faction tags above their heads, as if they showed an IC obvious affiliation to their faction.

Watch out, anonymous Defenders and Triadic Knights.

well...the Traidic Knights have got a rather obvious uniform...each deity has it's own colors with the three symbol on it and with a little symbol of Kohlingen. If anyone would spot one and they know the meaning of the symbols then they would obviously think that the he or she is probably connected to Kohlingen or to the Triadic faith or both.
So far as I've seen it, the so called fake TKs did not even copy it properly so one can easily tell the difference.
This is the only reason why we have a nametag and I could live without the nametag.

To tell the truth, the nametags on the Triadic Knights are working.

Because, as Lutra just stated, they're intended to be outright public about it, and I suppose wouldn't mind if other players would recognize them for it.

There's a reason Sam doesn't wear the uniform very often?!

...or have the nametag...

But seriously, don't take it upon yourself to purposefully annoy people just to try to get them to think like you, Mago. If they want to accidentally be metagamed sometimes, it's their choice. You don't need to do it, too, just to make a rude point.

Just met a triadic knight with nametag in the spires who was emoting *does not wear triadic outfit* everytime because shes a "scout". Made me smile inwardly.

I don't think I'll bother to remove the tag from Gagis.

There is no way he will ever be unrecognizable.

Andarial wears the frostmaiden tag proudly. I mean. Just look at her. She screams it.

I'm in agreement with the "if it's obvious at all times then put it in your bio" camp.

If you dont, you have the option of wearing or not wearing the appropriate colours or cloak or whatever. But if I actually saw, let's say, a member of the EO wearing their armour and emoting "is not wearing EO armour" I'd be tempted to smack them.* If I saw a drow wearing black and gold I would assume they were Tinnerai.

Xavi's bio is pretty clear that she's a Sharessin and is identifiable by the tattoo on the back of her hand. I have had people ask if she's still recognizable as such when wearing gloves but that's the opposite of metagaming.

* This comment was inspired by the post above about the Triadic knight but I am not saying this ever happened to an EO or Triadic or anyone else.

Mind that triadic knight I mentioned did indeed wear other armor and all that disguise stuff. But as I told the player, its rubbing even unintentional metagaming under your nose, especially if you're into "scouting" for evil.

hendrack wrote:

Mind that triadic knight I mentioned did indeed wear other armor and all that disguise stuff.

I had assumed that was the case. But yes, having the tag opens you to metagaming. I often watch the scene with my POV pulled way back and identify people by their floaty names alone.

You can still always get into the "oh I'm disguised" "gee, sorry, didnt notice" "that's all right" "just forget the last 3 comments, everyone" regardless.

certain factions are actual names. for instance House Tinnerai, is a noble house and Tinnerai is the last name for drow houses. Lualyrr Tinnerai is her name. Lualyrr is her first name, and tinnerai is her last name. however this applies to all factions that names are changed by joining them, like the shadowflames, or other noble houses.

When Amareth Norre'altin was a councilor of Winya I never thought to place up "Amareth Norre'altin, councilor of Winya Ravana" because that is a bit silly IMO. That sort of information can be founded out ICly.

Anubis wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

I think the faction belongings in your name is the most utterly stupid feature Amia has ever had.

And I blame the Shadowflames for being the originator.

As far as I knew, your last name is changed to Shadowflame if you join, rather than having it as a faction tag, since my one has his last name added to Shadowflame like a double-barrel, so it's Seth Dracross-Shadowflame. Well, he was born into the family, but it's the idea I got from it.

Nope Shadowflame is not a last name.

Xaviera wrote:

I'm in agreement with the "if it's obvious at all times then put it in your bio" camp.

The bio is a lot larder to change, though, and takes a lot longer to respond to change. Plus not everyone reads the bios of everyone they're walking past, so someone could have a giant neon sign flashing TRIADIC KNIGHT above them and someone who was looking for said knight could completely miss it.

Xaviera wrote:

If you dont, you have the option of wearing or not wearing the appropriate colours or cloak or whatever. But if I actually saw, let's say, a member of the EO wearing their armour and emoting "is not wearing EO armour" I'd be tempted to smack them.*

If you see the characters in the armour, I don't think they can just emote away that fact and still retain the mechanical advantages. That sounds rotten to me.

Meh, to each his own. I chose to not have them, personally. I emote if there are symbols shown to a certain faction or faith. But that's just me. I'm not going to tell people how they should show that their character is a part of a faction or a faith. Let them decide for themselves.

Let's just use common sense and open our eyes, I say.

*Sheyva ~Triadic Knight~ walks down the street wearing a skimpy, form-fitting outfit.*

"Look, a pretty girl!"

*Sheyva ~Triadic Knight~ walks down the street wearing a set of clothing and armor in Tyrran colors.*

"Look, a Triadic Knight!"

Why is this so hard? (I don't wanna consider those who are in uniform and say they're disguised, it's a horribly stupid thing to do.)

Wow the Red Wizards really opened a can of worms with this one lol seems it's something that been on the burner pre- Red Wizard faction and people just needed a thread to post there comments on it. I myself didn't like the idea of having a faction name floating above my toon, but it does help I've found in organizing parties on a player level and seeing just how many of your faction is on. It's also easier in a PvP situation to know who to hostile as well. For those of you that don't know I mostly play Rose Dal'lorn, she recently was promoted to Death in the horsemen....that's OOC information by the way :roll:

from what I've seen that last little clause means NOTHING to some, and it's sad really it's actually more fun to pretend you don't know something you actually do as a player. It has it's pro's and cons I see where Talia is coming from though, if a character is "obviously" in some kind of disguise and helmed it should be figured that character is in disguise or being discriet in his/her presence. Colors for denoting faction is fine but some newbies...like myself lol may just like the color's purple and black...It's been my favorite color combo since high school and it looks cool....but at the same time I wasn't playing a cyracist and was confronted by some because of the colors I wore. In summary I don't think there is anyway to show that you are a member of a faction ...accept maybe insignia's that would compete with some peoples ability to Metagame. Basically I'd have to say as I always do it's just a game, if your character don't know play it like that. Just like Roses Bio which never needs to be updated by the way, because all it says is this..."What you see is what you get RP and find out

" Really shouldn't make a mountian out of a molehill just play it as it lies...even if they are...lying lol.

Faction Tags are an invitation to metagame information. When a player adds a faction tag to their character's name, they lose all right to get angry if their alliance to said faction is metagamed. They can politely inform the person that they're in disguise, but you can't really get too mad.

It's basically wanting your cake and wanting to eat it, too and you know what they say about that.... you can't do it. Players add the Faction Tag to their characters name so the character gets some sort of recognition. Whether through the faction itself as being a member or through public acknowledgment of their affiliation. When the decision is made to add that Faction Tag, I feel that something is done to mark that character as a member of that faction (a badge, ritual branding, tattoo, etc.).

That mark may be easily covered up or removed, but a DM can also be easily contacted and the Faction Tag removed for a bit as well. Basically, my point is that if you invite meta, get meta and then get mad about it, you really need to learn the concept of causation and perhaps a little logic.

That's like saying someone who bought a new MP3 player and got mugged deserved it because s/he invited others to steal it.

It looked more like, someone bought a new MP3, top of the range in plain sight of everyone, showing it off and bragging how good it was, then having it stolen, which would then sort of mean that they had it coming, to me.

But that's my opinion.

What Ain said seemed quite reasonable to me...

So people with faction tags are all arrogant braggarts?

If that's really what the people on this server think, I'd rather get rid of mine.

Sorry. That wasn't what I ment.

Factiontags do invite metagaming, unfortunately, and not always do the players who ask to have theirs added realise/know this.

I agree to the point of they shouldn't really get mad if someone metagames them, due to their tag because it is in a way advertising who you are, and as stated by a few people above, they thought that people with tags would be obvious members of X faction, therefore accidently metagaming.

Though if someone RP's being under guise, then IMO they do have the right to be annoyed, or angry if meta'd.

My other post wasn't ment to offend at all, I appologise if it did.

I just ment if it's shown off then certain things become more likely. Just like say for example, telling someone OOC'ly in a tell or whatever that you're a Sharran, it's likely to be metagamed, which similar has happened on various occasions.

I'm very much with ainjyll on this, but that doesn't mean people who have faction tags for their characters are anything. I had the names of my drow characters changed multiple times to reflect their association with different houses. It's nice.

But if you first put something there plain as day for every player to read, and then expect the players to feign obliviousness when you are disguised or don't want to be recognized, you put the player in a schizophrene position. You expect him to NOT act based upon what he knows. He will either act upon it and anger people because he metagamed, or he will so go out of his way to not discover this obvious OOC information with his character that it gives nametagged people a free pass for win-RP.

There simply is very little middle ground here. The player knows, and he'll either see to it that the character does, or that he doesn't. No uncertainty and no poking in the dark needed. If your character has a tag and somehow people know this tag even if you're wearing pure white full plate armor, you should really really think about whether or not you asked for it to happen.

I'm surprised the tags are so tempting, considering the staggering amount of metagameable content already present in characters, the module, NWN, and D&D as a whole.

Faction Named chandge

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