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GreatPigeon
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 Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 5:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Guxx wrote: GreatPigeon wrote: You will most likely be wearing heavy armor in epic levels so your dex is a bit to high for my tastes. Id lower it down to say 8 or 10. 1 pot or even a extra little push on a geat is gonna push it to the 12 point (+1 dex mod max)...
Feel free to put extra points wherever. If you need skill points (dont think you do go intel) Id recommend con though. It creases hp, and the duration of your rage. Referring back to my original post, I don't intend to be wearing anything heavier then a chain shirt just because I feel it doesn't fit the character to be running around in a tin suit. Ach, sorry didnt see that... well plate armor is 8+1 and chain is 4+4... You will still have to be using a pot to get the maximum amount of AC. Understand for rp, just saying you are missing out on um... 2 rounds of rage per rage so uh... around 6 rages per day at extra 12 seconds each.. I know its not much but an extra 60x hp + 1 minute of rages a day works well in your favor _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Guxx
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 5:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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GreatPigeon wrote: Guxx wrote: GreatPigeon wrote: You will most likely be wearing heavy armor in epic levels so your dex is a bit to high for my tastes. Id lower it down to say 8 or 10. 1 pot or even a extra little push on a geat is gonna push it to the 12 point (+1 dex mod max)...
Feel free to put extra points wherever. If you need skill points (dont think you do go intel) Id recommend con though. It creases hp, and the duration of your rage. Referring back to my original post, I don't intend to be wearing anything heavier then a chain shirt just because I feel it doesn't fit the character to be running around in a tin suit. Ach, sorry didnt see that... well plate armor is 8+1 and chain is 4+4... You will still have to be using a pot to get the maximum amount of AC. Understand for rp, just saying you are missing out on um... 2 rounds of rage per rage so uh... around 6 rages per day at extra 12 seconds each.. I know its not much but an extra 60x hp + 1 minute of rages a day works well in your favor I know it's not the best choice build wise but pre-rebuild the character was 17 base dex wearing leather armor and I've already dropped it down quite a bit.
*Is also sad he can't keep his Wis at 10*
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 5:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Guxx wrote: Taking rogue first level was mostly because I was worried about being skill starved since I haven't taken the time to figure out how many skill points I'll have to toss around yet.
4 ranks from barb levels = 16 at level one, 92 from barb, 8 from fighter, 16 from Rogue.
Total skillz: 132. Discipline: 33, Intimidate 33, Tumble 30, UMD, 31, 5 free.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Guxx
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 5:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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MoshingChris wrote: Guxx wrote: Taking rogue first level was mostly because I was worried about being skill starved since I haven't taken the time to figure out how many skill points I'll have to toss around yet. 4 ranks from barb levels = 16 at level one, 92 from barb, 8 from fighter, 16 from Rogue. Total skillz: 132. Discipline: 33, Intimidate 33, Tumble 30, UMD, 31, 5 free. 5 Heal I guess.
Since I will have enough skill point with out taking rogue first level I'll have to make a few adjustments to the leveling order.
I'll still want to take Rogue 2, correct?
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 5:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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Rogue 2 gives you Evasion with 6HP and extra Skill Points.
Barb 20 gives you DR IV, an extra Rage, 12HP and less Skill Points.
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 6:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Yes take 2 levels of rogue but do it in epic, or take the level of rogue at levle 1... you will have 1 less AB for more skill poitns I dont honestl see a place for on this build (Im prolly wrong) Concentration is nice to have to avoid taunt however, after yuanti I dont think anything does taunt.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 6:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Frosties do, and there's alwyas the odd chance it can happen in PvP.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 7:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Not according to the mechanics, but there's some IC-thing if Shadowdancers get struck by the Light spell, they can no longer HiPS. How does the Light Spell work ICly - Does it lightens up the whole area around the target thus there would be ICly no shadows around? Jane the dancer has Light cast on her. She's near a small crate... would the light on her make the crate cast a shadow or would all the area around her be lit up - thus no shadows on any objects within the spell's range. Phantom-D wrote: If you get hit with light just cast darkness and hide. Or run around a corner since light doesn't stop corner sneaking.
Isn't there a difference between darkness and shadow? I remember once that someone told me about night time darkness isn't considered a shadow in DnD Shadow Dancers (Though technically it should be earth's shadow).
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 7:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Sokar Rostau wrote: Rogue 2 gives you Evasion with 6HP and extra Skill Points.
Barb 20 gives you DR IV, an extra Rage, 12HP and less Skill Points.
The Build is Barb 24 Rogue 2 Fighter 4
I'm just saying a pre-epic rogue level on a character that relying primarily on its AB is better of having 1 more AB than 16 extra skillpoints.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 7:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Barbies can afford it because they have 4 + int SP a level, not 2 + SP, IIRC. So unlike fighters they don't need that burst of rogue SP to top off Tumble and UMD late in the game.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 8:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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TormakSaber wrote: Frosties do, and there's alwyas the odd chance it can happen in PvP.
didnt know this, normally I skip frosties, their mages make them tough, everytime you hit them auto take damage.. I dont like this to much so I levle slightly lower aras or get a group and run to spires.
Always felt spires were easier for me. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 10:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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TormakSaber wrote: Barbies can afford it because they have 4 + int SP a level, not 2 + SP, IIRC. So unlike fighters they don't need that burst of rogue SP to top off Tumble and UMD late in the game.
In future I PM Pepsisaber with the General Gist of what i am trying to say so it can be said in one post rather than four.
/Mosh-Fail
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 17:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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You're right, I read the pre-Epic 19 Barb and didn't do the maths. In that case there's no reason not to take Rogue 2 for Evasion.
Taking a level of Rogue at about 17 as a mid-range Tumble/UMD dump would help boost your AC for early Epic - +4 from Tumble and another +4 from Sun Souls (or +5 if you can fit in some UMD to your early Epic equipment).
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 18:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Sokar Rostau wrote: You're right, I read the pre-Epic 19 Barb and didn't do the maths. In that case there's no reason not to take Rogue 2 for Evasion.
Taking a level of Rogue at about 17 as a mid-range Tumble/UMD dump would help boost your AC for early Epic - +4 from Tumble and another +4 from Sun Souls (or +5 if you can fit in some UMD to your early Epic equipment).
Iffy i'd say. My Barbie doll (same build minus the Dev Lick and Exotics) had no issue gettig to 22 without UMD, Tumble. Albiet that was in a very good party, with skilled players who knew their roles.
UMD actually wont help much at 17 because likely you'll be wearing +4 AC +2con boots which you can buy relatively early on. Flame weapons not going to be much of a help against those fire giants either. The Tumble dumpage isn't really needed there when you can wait until 22 and invest for 25 ranks (5 AC) and grab max BAB.
My suggestion
1-20 Barb
21 Fighter: Great Str 1, Epic Weapon Focus
22 Rogue: Tumble and UMD
23 Fighter: Overwhelming
24 Barb: Thundering Rage
25 Fighter:
26 Barb:
27 Fighter: Weapon Spec, Epic Weapon Spec
28 Rogue: Tumble UMD
29 Barb
30 Barb: Dev Lick, Initmidating Rage
Thundering Rage is way too awesome to have languishing at the end of a Barb build while Dev Crit wont get that much value PvMly in areas such as the Abyss.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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ainjyll
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Posted: Wed, Jul 15 2009, 22:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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ticket wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Not according to the mechanics, but there's some IC-thing if Shadowdancers get struck by the Light spell, they can no longer HiPS. How does the Light Spell work ICly - Does it lightens up the whole area around the target thus there would be ICly no shadows around? The light spell is cast on a specific target. For a basic example, imagine the SD is basically a lightbulb for the duration of the spell. ticket wrote: Jane the dancer has Light cast on her. She's near a small crate... would the light on her make the crate cast a shadow or would all the area around her be lit up - thus no shadows on any objects within the spell's range.
Use my example from above. Get a lamp and remove the shade so you just have a bare lightbulb. Now take a small box and move the lightbulb around it and try to find a spot for the lightbulb to sit in shadow. You can't do it. The only shadow the lightbulb may cast is underneath it and since a SD can't HIPS into their own shadow, that doesn't do much good.
Of course, Bioware's game engine will allow a SD to HIPS regardless of the condition of light, so this is basically a "on your honor" thing when dealing with SD's IG. _________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Jul 16 2009, 5:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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That's a nice way of looking at it for amia but it's technically untrue in PnP. In Amia though, yes, you are exactly right.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, Jul 16 2009, 10:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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26 others/4 bard build on the stove. I've already taken Save boosts (strong soul, luck of heroes, great fort), IKD, toughness and blind fight, as well as dev crit prerequisites. Still, I have 3 feat slots left and I can't carry them to epic.
A 4 bard build would have a bardsong that would give:
+1 AB
+2 Damage
+1 Fort
+1 Will
I was thinking maybe taking lingering song and extra music, giving me a 15 round pseudo-prayer usable 8x/day... or do I have better uses for those feat slots? I'll have abysmal 17 Will, 13 Reflex final so other save boosts seem more of a waste... Skill Foci and/or Improved Disarm perhaps?
Any ideas, thoughts and/or suggestions?
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Jul 16 2009, 10:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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26 others?
Oh you mean 16 PM and 10 Fighter? Or 16 Fighter 10 PM.
Its usually helpful to add in what these other levels are so folks can actually get a look in at your build for the purposes of you know, helping.
Wasting feats on something like that is a no no in my book.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 10:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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MoshingChris wrote: 26 others?
Oh you mean 16 PM and 10 Fighter? Or 16 Fighter 10 PM.
Its usually helpful to add in what these other levels are so folks can actually get a look in at your build for the purposes of you know, helping.
Wasting feats on something like that is a no no in my book.
Well yeah, or probably just 26 fighter, dunno really. but I'd like some general thoughts about the situation, not just for one build in particular since I seem to find myself in that bind a lot of times. If you're a meleer that already has the essentials and still have surplus 3 feats or more and you have 4 bard, would the mini bard song be of any real use or would it be something that you'll inevitably shove down the bottom of your loot-packed backpack? On what feats would those slots be better spent on?
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 11:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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ainjyll wrote: ticket wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Not according to the mechanics, but there's some IC-thing if Shadowdancers get struck by the Light spell, they can no longer HiPS. How does the Light Spell work ICly - Does it lightens up the whole area around the target thus there would be ICly no shadows around? The light spell is cast on a specific target. For a basic example, imagine the SD is basically a lightbulb for the duration of the spell. ticket wrote: Jane the dancer has Light cast on her. She's near a small crate... would the light on her make the crate cast a shadow or would all the area around her be lit up - thus no shadows on any objects within the spell's range. Use my example from above. Get a lamp and remove the shade so you just have a bare lightbulb. Now take a small box and move the lightbulb around it and try to find a spot for the lightbulb to sit in shadow. You can't do it. The only shadow the lightbulb may cast is underneath it and since a SD can't HIPS into their own shadow, that doesn't do much good. Of course, Bioware's game engine will allow a SD to HIPS regardless of the condition of light, so this is basically a "on your honor" thing when dealing with SD's IG. *Flaps his cloak like Dracula and jumps into it's shadow*
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 13:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Magnum Opera wrote: MoshingChris wrote: 26 others?
Oh you mean 16 PM and 10 Fighter? Or 16 Fighter 10 PM.
Its usually helpful to add in what these other levels are so folks can actually get a look in at your build for the purposes of you know, helping.
Wasting feats on something like that is a no no in my book. Well yeah, or probably just 26 fighter, dunno really. but I'd like some general thoughts about the situation, not just for one build in particular since I seem to find myself in that bind a lot of times. If you're a meleer that already has the essentials and still have surplus 3 feats or more and you have 4 bard, would the mini bard song be of any real use or would it be something that you'll inevitably shove down the bottom of your loot-packed backpack? On what feats would those slots be better spent on? The bard song 4 is enough to help with bosses, and you get to find the bard songs in game that give you lich song and greaterstone skin...
Id encourage you to play 20 bard though as they are freakin awesome... _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Okay, so I have very very little experience with bards, and since the depature of my casual PC in the form of Xal, I'd like to start a new PC in the form of a Bard/SD character, or simply a roguish bard. I'm usually content to forge on ahead with wild abandon, but I'm completely lost when it comes to magic, espically bards.
It's probably an easy build, and I'm not to fussed about PvP value, just fun. I'd like to take at least 20 Bard. I'd probably be more then willing to go 30 Bard and skip on the other stuff. Any idea's?
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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DAmnit Selvac... that was my next goal was a bard /sd.... well do you want lingering song or not really...
bard 20/ sd 10 (most sneakiness)
bard 20/ sd 6/ fighter4 (most damage)
bard 20/ sd 6/ bg4 (best saves)
Those are the ones that im condidering, lingering song is to awesome to pass imho...
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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GreatPigeon wrote: DAmnit Selvac... that was my next goal was a bard /sd.... well do you want lingering song or not really...
bard 20/ sd 10 (most sneakiness)
bard 20/ sd 6/ fighter4 (most damage)
bard 20/ sd 6/ bg4 (best saves)
Those are the ones that im condidering, lingering song is to awesome to pass imho...
From what little I know about such things, I've heard Lingering Song is pretty much needed for an effective bard. Curse Song, Extra Music and Lingering Song beinging the essentials of any bard build. I could be wrong, probably am. As I said, I'm not so good with magic spells. I'm probably the only person on Amia who some how screwed up an pure Sorc build. 
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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xordae
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Lingering Song is rubbish when you could have Lasting Inspiration. Make that a simple 23 Bard / 7 SD split to nick a free Slippery Mind, forgo LS for LI. 21 Bard / 2 BG / 7 SD if you wanna pick up Cleave and get better saves.
To clarify: Lingering Song adds 5 Rounds to every Bard song, making it last 15 Rounds. But Lasting Inspiration makes your song last 10x longer without counting Lingering Song. So in the latter case you are looking at a difference of 100 Rounds to 105 Rounds.
Last edited by xordae on Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:15 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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The real builders will come in here and rescue you soon enough, which im looking forward too.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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xordae wrote: Lingering Song is rubbish when you could have Lasting Inspiration. Make that a simple 23 Bard / 7 SD split to nick a free Slippery Mind, forgo LS for LI. 21 Bard / 2 BG / 7 SD if you wanna pick up Cleave and get better saves.
To clarify: Lingering Song adds 5 Rounds to every Bard song, making it last 15 Rounds. But Lasting Inspiration makes your song last 10x longer without counting Lingering Song. So in the latter case you are looking at a difference of 100 Rounds to 105 Rounds.
Not really keen on making the character evil, I have a boring law bound character, an evil duergar and I'm hoping to make a roguish CG bard. So I'll probably forgo the BG for that 23 Bard/ 7 SD build.
As I'm building from ground up, any suggestions on beginning stats and level progression? I'm thinking of going the Blade/Small sheild combo with parry for flavour. That sheild offers a +5 to AC with a +4 small sheild, and it's to much for me to not go for.
Edit: Heading to bed.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 14:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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I dont like slipper mind... Your will save is like 18 at max inepic, and thts with a few gear giving bonus...
Correct me if Im wrong but If the save is 35 and you have only 18... good lucks trying to save that again...
Id take 1 fighter in there instead... It gives you martial weapons and an extra feat in epic....
If not takign fighter, you can take ranger (give you dual wield, AE, set trap, hide, ms...allows you to take SD wiuthout using up all your skill points)
10 sd also gives you epic dodge though (with 25 dex) Would be interesting to get epic dodge on your roguelike duelist.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Crimmage
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 16:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Location: Where you are
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I'm afraid on what my build is going to turn out like, hence why I am posting here.
What I've got so far, is 4 Fighter / 19 Rogue / 7 Weapon Master
For weapon, I went with a heavy flail, mostly because they are cool.
This is on a human build:
16 Strength --> 22
12 Dexterity --> 13 (Yeah, I really messed up here, should've gone 15 strength, 13 dex, would've ended up with one more ability point.)
12 Constitution
14 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
12 Charisma
1 Rogue: Feats Expertise and Iron Will (Iron Will is mostly for an IC perspective.)
2 Fighter: Weapon Focus Flail, Knockdown
3 Fighter: Toughness, (I cannot recall what this feat is >_<)
4 Rogue +1 Dex
5 Fighter
6 Fighter: Weapon Specialization, Dodge
7 Rogue
8 Rogue +1 Strength
9 Rogue: Mobility
10 Rogue
11 Rogue
12 Rogue: Spring Attack / +1 Strength
13 Rogue
14 Rogue: Crippling Strike
15 Rogue: Whirlwind Attack
16 WM +1 Strength
17 WM
18 WM: Imp Crit (Heavy Flail)
19 WM
20 WM +1 Strength
21 Rogue: EWF: Heavy Flail
22 Rogue: Improved Evasion
23 Rogue
24 Rogue: Epic Prowess / +1 Strength
25 WM
26 Rogue: Slippery Mind
27 Rogue: Epic Skill Focus: Intimidate (For Roleplay Reasons)
28 Rogue +1 Strength
29 WM (For Discipline/Taunt Dump)
30 Rogue: Not sure what to take, most epic feats are subject to change. Probably epic weapon specialization here. (Improved Sneak Attack? I don't think so. Maybe?)
_________________
I am currently engrossed in sewer drainage.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 16:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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For a Sneak-heavy WM, I would go Ftr6/WM7/Rogue17. You can't take Epic Spec on anything but a CoT or Fighter level, so you'd need at least one Ftr in epic, and there's no reason not to take two, since Rogue18 does bugger all.
Taunt isn't a WM skill, it's Barbarian, Bard, Blackguard and Paladin that get it with full ranks.
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TheUltimateSin
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 16:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Georgie
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ticket wrote: BlackDahlya wrote: Mainly, it needs to have:
- Drow
- Dual-Wielding DEX Based
- Epic Dodge
- Epic Focus on Hide & Spot
- HiPS Idea
- Able to solo-hunt in case I couldn't find someone to help me, since this will be a self-rebuild. It would take me forever to make a rebuild with DCs. Drow... check
Dual-wield DEX Based... check
Epic Dodge... check
Epic focus Hide & Spot... check
HiPS... CheckSolo-hunt... If you're patient enough and pick sneakable enemies, maybe.Quote: Rogue(13), Fighter(8), Shadowdancer(7), Drow
STR: 8
DEX: 19 (26)
CON: 12
WIS: 13
INT: 14 [16] Drow bonus
CHA: 8 [10] Drow bonus
Rogue(1) Ambidexterity
Rogue(2)
Rogue(3) Weapon Finesse
Rogue(4)
Rogue(5)
Rogue(6) Two-Weapon Fighting
Rogue(7)
Rogue(8)
Rogue(9) Weapon Focus
Rogue(10) Crippling Strike
Fighter(1) Improved Critical
Fighter(2) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Dodge
Fighter(3)
Fighter(4) Weapon Specialization
Rogue(11) Mobility
Rogue(12)
Shadowdancer(1)
Shadowdancer(2) Toughness
Shadowdancer(3)
Shadowdancer(4)
Fighter(5) Epic Skill Focus: Hide
Fighter(6) Epic Weapon Focus
Shadowdancer(5)
Shadowdancer(6) Epic Skill Focus: Spot
Fighter(7)
Fighter(8) Epic Weapon Specialization
Rogue(13) Epic Dodge, Improved Evasion
Shadowdancer(7) It has 13 Wisdom only but more HP (270 up to 450). Not sure if this is an improvement over your own build to be honest. My version runs around with 39 AB dual wielding. It's more SD (HiPS) centric though so you hit things flatfooted. Pros: Slightly more skills. Gets Crippling Strike, Improve Critical & Improve two weapon fighting faster. Epic weapon specialization. Maxes out Hide, Move Silent & Spot Skills @ 31. Gets a bonus feat - Slippery Mind. Cons: Gets hit by XP penalty earlier. 1 Less AB. Improved Evasion comes late. Anyways I'm sure the others could pick it apart better. Firstly, Epic Dodge requires Defensive Roll as well as Improved Evasion, So you'd probably have to lose the Cripple.
Secondly, gonna be a dex-based with max tumble, AoO's are not really a problem, and you get Uncanny Dodge so you need neither dodge nor mobility
Thirdly, you need to take a class with full BAB on a level with at least 16 BAB to get 6 attacks per round dual wielding.
One other thing, mind I dont have any SD's but I'd probably limit the SD to 6 to keep the HiPS and take Ftr lvl 28 for the discipline.
I'd actually prefer Rng instead of Ftr, you'll never really miss EWS with those sneak dice and you get kick-ass bonus to hide from feats and spells from Rng, especially in wild areas. You get fewer selectable feats but you get all the two weapon feats for free. Maybe go Rng15/SD10/Rog (or Sin  )3. Of Course, that build would lower damage. Its really up to you whether you want stealth or damage.
Rng 15 will up your hide by +24 on spells alone and +28 in wild areas with trackless step. It also gives you +4 bonus to spot, listen, damage, and taunt v. favored enemies.
starting stats for the Rng build would be as follows:
.........ELF........DROW
str---->12------>12
dex--->18------>18
con---->12----->12
wis----->14----->14
int----->12------>14
cha---->8------->10
But it would really be no problem to lower Rng lvls for more rog(sin) just don't go lower than 9 Rng if your using two weapons because dual wield does not count for Imp Two-Weap fighting as a selectable feat.
Another thing to remember about the Rng is in epic lvls you can use favored enemy feat for other feats. You will only get 10 feats not counting favored's to spend.
That's 7 pre-epic feats for Weap focus, Weap finesse, skill foc hide, skill foc spot, imp crit, Blind fight, toughness.
Taking Rng 10-15 in epic lvls would give you 5 epic feats: Epic weap focus, Epic Skill hide, Epic skill spot, Great Dex I, Epic Dodge; but would cost you two races of favored enemies.
Anyway that's my take on it.
_________________
"Solomon Grundy stronger than all, Superfriends." -Solomon Grundy
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 17:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Selvec Darkon wrote: xordae wrote: Lingering Song is rubbish when you could have Lasting Inspiration. Make that a simple 23 Bard / 7 SD split to nick a free Slippery Mind, forgo LS for LI. 21 Bard / 2 BG / 7 SD if you wanna pick up Cleave and get better saves.
To clarify: Lingering Song adds 5 Rounds to every Bard song, making it last 15 Rounds. But Lasting Inspiration makes your song last 10x longer without counting Lingering Song. So in the latter case you are looking at a difference of 100 Rounds to 105 Rounds. Not really keen on making the character evil, I have a boring law bound character, an evil duergar and I'm hoping to make a roguish CG bard. So I'll probably forgo the BG for that 23 Bard/ 7 SD build. As I'm building from ground up, any suggestions on beginning stats and level progression? I'm thinking of going the Blade/Small sheild combo with parry for flavour. That sheild offers a +5 to AC with a +4 small sheild, and it's to much for me to not go for. Edit: Heading to bed. 23 Bard/6 SD/1 Ranger is by far the best. The damage will make you cry yourself to sleep, but I think it's nice enough with a bard buffed manticore and level 9 summon. Uce has one, feel free to copy!
EDIT: I take that "by far the best" away, because all these have their own special flavours. Fixed a typo too.
20 Bard/10 SD works as well. Epic Dodge is a huge <3
And of course, if you're awesome enough, you'll drop the silly SD and go 20 Bard/10 Rogue. Now that's rogueish! Also your damage wouldn't have to suck balls, especially in a party. And once again, Epic Dodge which is lovely. _________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
Last edited by Uncle-Opustus on Fri, Jul 17 2009, 17:39 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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maglorine
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 17:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: And of course, if you're awesome enough, you'll drop the silly SD and go 20 Bard/10 Rogue. Now that's rogueish! Also your damage wouldn't have suck balls, especially in a party. And once again, Epic Dodge which is lovely.
You need 13 Rogue for Epic Dodge unless you've learned a new trick and are holding out on the rest of us.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 17:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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*slaps self silly* Yes. Please, ignore me. Too used to the thought of going 20 Monk/10 Rogue and grabbing Epic dodge. Kind of automatically think that 10 Rogue means Epic dodge. But it does not! Feel free to hate me. *sobcut*
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Celina
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 20:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2009
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Time for a few questions:
I have begun working on a wizard build, but before I get to far I was wondering what sort of end-game equipment is there?
I dont expect a full list, but my thoughts are based on some unusual (for the PWs I am used to at least) gear already in lowlevel shops.
Feats on items: How common is this? Spell focus / penetration is fine, but do I risk wasting feats when I at level 25 stands at a shop and see they sell items with greater foci / pene? maybe even epic?
And in the same line: Arcane spell failure "removal" on medium / heavy armor and shields is this in the end-game? So far I have seen a few mediums with - 20 % spell failure (base 30%).
Also looking for any other advice based on gear / equipment for wizards / pale masters specific for Amia. 
Thank you in advance 8 
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 20:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: Feats on items: How common is this? Spell focus / penetration is fine, but do I risk wasting feats when I at level 25 stands at a shop and see they sell items with greater foci / pene? maybe even epic?
You won't see anything above the basics since they don't actually exist as bioware properties.
Feats on items are 'semi common'. The notable ones are Knockdown, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot (neither can be use dto qualify for AA), and Improved evasion in the +5 loot.
As far as items go, +4 is easy to ge,t endgame, and +5 is the ideal. As a wizard, you get to just Epic Mage Armor everything which means with the mythal system you have the most freedom of pretty much any character in existence when it comes to your gearset.
Arcane Spell Failure exists on items, yes. But you'll either need to work with what's there or make a DC item request.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Celina
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 20:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: Quote: Feats on items: How common is this? Spell focus / penetration is fine, but do I risk wasting feats when I at level 25 stands at a shop and see they sell items with greater foci / pene? maybe even epic? You won't see anything above the basics since they don't actually exist as bioware properties. Feats on items are 'semi common'. The notable ones are Knockdown, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot (neither can be use dto qualify for AA), and Improved evasion in the +5 loot. As far as items go, +4 is easy to ge,t endgame, and +5 is the ideal. As a wizard, you get to just Epic Mage Armor everything which means with the mythal system you have the most freedom of pretty much any character in existence when it comes to your gearset. Arcane Spell Failure exists on items, yes. But you'll either need to work with what's there or make a DC item request. Sadly no epic wizard levels for me, so no epic mage armor 
Apart from that, could you eloborate on the Arcane spell failure options? Is it present to a degree where you can null out the effect of wearing medium or heavy armor as well as shield without the use of Autostill III? If so, is it through the crafting or only a few select pieces?
I might add I am building a necromancer 19 Wiz / 10 PM / 1 something i havent decided yet.
Feats:
extend, empower, maximize, blind fight, Epic Spell penetration, Autostill III
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 20:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Smelly AC Palemasters. I still say someone should make my Epic Damage Reduct III PM build for a giggle.
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Celina
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 21:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2009
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Uberuce wrote: Smelly AC Palemasters. I still say someone should make my Epic Damage Reduct III PM build for a giggle.
Hmm AC build? Hardly.. there are much better versions, such as the Bard /PM/ RDD etc.
But I need something to stay alive long enough to actually enjoy a few maniacally laughs as I raise one undead minion after the other and send them to their death yet again..
And should I ever venture into some RP-PvP, this toon has close to zero survivability with the gimped TS against all those hipster monks without at least the change to evade an attack now and then.. 
But thats another topic.. and hints / clues / etc. I need to know about gear / feats / etc specific for Amia?
Ohh and a followup question: The race-given SR, can it be lowered by Mords, or does it work like monks diamond soul?
(What we really need is a test mod with a leveler and a shop with all the amia gear  )
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xordae
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 21:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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There are Medium Armors with 0% ASF, as well as a Large Shield. You might ditch all those Still feats and just go with that, though the armor requires some UMD to use unless you're an Elf.
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Celina
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 21:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2009
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xordae wrote: There are Medium Armors with 0% ASF, as well as a Large Shield. You might ditch all those Still feats and just go with that, though the armor requires some UMD to use unless you're an Elf.
So do I understand the crafting system correct, that I can take for instance that medium armor and remove whatever positive effects it has on it (besides the ASF) and then add my own custom powers to it?
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xordae
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 21:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Indeedy. With an armor, the maximum is four powers. One being occupied by ASF, you could then proceed to add, for example.. +4 AC and 1 Int. Or +3 AC +2 Universal Saves.. the sidebar is pretty thorough about this.
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Phantom-D
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 21:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
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Light stops HiPS.
Just because a Shadow Dancer activates the Hide Mode doesn't mean he is HiPSing.
Light adds an automatic -20 to hide (That or Faerie fire, not sure)
So you can corner sneak and go into Darkness to hide naturally, not HiPS.
I've never heard a DM say Light stops natural activations of the Hide Mode but it could be another house rule.
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TheUltimateSin
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Posted: Fri, Jul 17 2009, 23:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Georgie
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Celina wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Quote: Feats on items: How common is this? Spell focus / penetration is fine, but do I risk wasting feats when I at level 25 stands at a shop and see they sell items with greater foci / pene? maybe even epic? You won't see anything above the basics since they don't actually exist as bioware properties. Feats on items are 'semi common'. The notable ones are Knockdown, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot (neither can be use dto qualify for AA), and Improved evasion in the +5 loot. As far as items go, +4 is easy to ge,t endgame, and +5 is the ideal. As a wizard, you get to just Epic Mage Armor everything which means with the mythal system you have the most freedom of pretty much any character in existence when it comes to your gearset. Arcane Spell Failure exists on items, yes. But you'll either need to work with what's there or make a DC item request. Sadly no epic wizard levels for me, so no epic mage armor Apart from that, could you eloborate on the Arcane spell failure options? Is it present to a degree where you can null out the effect of wearing medium or heavy armor as well as shield without the use of Autostill III? If so, is it through the crafting or only a few select pieces? I might add I am building a necromancer 19 Wiz / 10 PM / 1 something i havent decided yet. Feats: extend, empower, maximize, blind fight, Epic Spell penetration, Autostill III Switch the wiz and PM lvls and you will get epic spells. PM15 qualifies for them.
_________________
"Solomon Grundy stronger than all, Superfriends." -Solomon Grundy
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ainjyll
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Posted: Sat, Jul 18 2009, 0:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Celina wrote: (What we really need is a test mod with a leveler and a shop with all the amia gear :idea: )
That is an awesome idea! Someone tell Disco, because I know he never looks at this thread.
Ruce... PM me your DR III PM build and I'll do it. *shrug* Would probably be fun. _________________ "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sat, Jul 18 2009, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: xordae wrote: Lingering Song is rubbish when you could have Lasting Inspiration. Make that a simple 23 Bard / 7 SD split to nick a free Slippery Mind, forgo LS for LI. 21 Bard / 2 BG / 7 SD if you wanna pick up Cleave and get better saves.
To clarify: Lingering Song adds 5 Rounds to every Bard song, making it last 15 Rounds. But Lasting Inspiration makes your song last 10x longer without counting Lingering Song. So in the latter case you are looking at a difference of 100 Rounds to 105 Rounds. Not really keen on making the character evil, I have a boring law bound character, an evil duergar and I'm hoping to make a roguish CG bard. So I'll probably forgo the BG for that 23 Bard/ 7 SD build. As I'm building from ground up, any suggestions on beginning stats and level progression? I'm thinking of going the Blade/Small sheild combo with parry for flavour. That sheild offers a +5 to AC with a +4 small sheild, and it's to much for me to not go for. Edit: Heading to bed. 23 Bard/6 SD/1 Ranger is by far the best. The damage will make you cry yourself to sleep, but I think it's nice enough with a bard buffed manticore and level 9 summon. Uce has one, feel free to copy! EDIT: I take that "by far the best" away, because all these have their own special flavours. Fixed a typo too. 20 Bard/10 SD works as well. Epic Dodge is a huge <3
And of course, if you're awesome enough, you'll drop the silly SD and go 20 Bard/10 Rogue. Now that's rogueish! Also your damage wouldn't have to suck balls, especially in a party. And once again, Epic Dodge which is lovely. I actually like the sound of 20 bard and 10 rogue. The focus would never be on HIPS, which is what I want since I hated the HIPSing tactic with my old SD. Felt like cheating. The 20 Bard is win anyway given that it's 20 bard, and 10 rogue for the epic dodge sounds nice. It allows me to sneak attack the way I want, and I can still hide and disable traps.
Sounds really nice actually, while also being ideal for RP. Again though, what would be the starting stats for that and level progression? I'd like to maximize skill points for flavour while still being competant in a fight.
@Celina & Ainjyll: The idea of a build module did come up once. I believe it was shot down for a decent reason. I think it was because this isn't a PvP server, and also some of the items in Amia are not avaliable due to location. It was a lot of work for very little decent reward. We have enough powerbuilds without encouraging it by adding item effiency and such.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Grapeshot
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Posted: Sat, Jul 18 2009, 2:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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So far I am lvl 8 on my build. I have 7 barb and a fighter lvl. On my last lvl i tried to take weapon spec on my bastard sword. I already have weapon focus (bastard) and my base attack is above 4 so why would it not let it be one of the selections. (yes it was a fighter level i was going to try and take.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Jul 18 2009, 5:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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ainjyll wrote: That is an awesome idea! Someone tell Disco, because I know he never looks at this thread.
Ruce... PM me your DR III PM build and I'll do it. *shrug* Would probably be fun. I just made my own levelling module. NPC who gives 435,000 XP and a bucket of gold, and has a shop with typical non-uberloot gear for an epic, and some generic monsters of roughly Abyssal standard.
Anyway, you really don't need a PM for that PM, silly rabbit. Nothing but INT and CON for stats, raise CON to 21 by level 20, then take Epic DRIII, with the last feat going whereever you like. Epic Discipline after a skilldumping single Ftr level, probably, since your spell DCs won't be great on the non-whored INT.
If you've gone gnome, you get the CON nice and easily, so you can afford to raise CHA up to the point that taking a Bard level means you don't suck like a prison bitch in his third day of withdrawal.
For sillystupid defensive maging, go Wiz10/Bard1/PM19 on gnome and get Epic Mage Armour as well.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jul 18 2009, 6:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: xordae wrote: Lingering Song is rubbish when you could have Lasting Inspiration. Make that a simple 23 Bard / 7 SD split to nick a free Slippery Mind, forgo LS for LI. 21 Bard / 2 BG / 7 SD if you wanna pick up Cleave and get better saves.
To clarify: Lingering Song adds 5 Rounds to every Bard song, making it last 15 Rounds. But Lasting Inspiration makes your song last 10x longer without counting Lingering Song. So in the latter case you are looking at a difference of 100 Rounds to 105 Rounds. Not really keen on making the character evil, I have a boring law bound character, an evil duergar and I'm hoping to make a roguish CG bard. So I'll probably forgo the BG for that 23 Bard/ 7 SD build. As I'm building from ground up, any suggestions on beginning stats and level progression? I'm thinking of going the Blade/Small sheild combo with parry for flavour. That sheild offers a +5 to AC with a +4 small sheild, and it's to much for me to not go for. Edit: Heading to bed. 23 Bard/6 SD/1 Ranger is by far the best. The damage will make you cry yourself to sleep, but I think it's nice enough with a bard buffed manticore and level 9 summon. Uce has one, feel free to copy! EDIT: I take that "by far the best" away, because all these have their own special flavours. Fixed a typo too. 20 Bard/10 SD works as well. Epic Dodge is a huge <3
And of course, if you're awesome enough, you'll drop the silly SD and go 20 Bard/10 Rogue. Now that's rogueish! Also your damage wouldn't have to suck balls, especially in a party. And once again, Epic Dodge which is lovely. I actually like the sound of 20 bard and 10 rogue. The focus would never be on HIPS, which is what I want since I hated the HIPSing tactic with my old SD. Felt like cheating. The 20 Bard is win anyway given that it's 20 bard, and 10 rogue for the epic dodge sounds nice. It allows me to sneak attack the way I want, and I can still hide and disable traps. 20 bard/10 rogue does not give epic dodge... you need 13 rogue to meet the requirements... Shame on you Opustus... And Selvak you only need 1 rogue level to disable traps and hide if you dump at the right time. Grapeshot wrote: So far I am lvl 8 on my build. I have 7 barb and a fighter lvl. On my last lvl i tried to take weapon spec on my bastard sword. I already have weapon focus (bastard) and my base attack is above 4 so why would it not let it be one of the selections. (yes it was a fighter level i was going to try and take.
You need 4 levels of fighter to take weapon specialization. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Celina
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Posted: Sat, Jul 18 2009, 6:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2009
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TheUltimateSin wrote: Celina wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Quote: Feats on items: How common is this? Spell focus / penetration is fine, but do I risk wasting feats when I at level 25 stands at a shop and see they sell items with greater foci / pene? maybe even epic? You won't see anything above the basics since they don't actually exist as bioware properties. Feats on items are 'semi common'. The notable ones are Knockdown, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot (neither can be use dto qualify for AA), and Improved evasion in the +5 loot. As far as items go, +4 is easy to ge,t endgame, and +5 is the ideal. As a wizard, you get to just Epic Mage Armor everything which means with the mythal system you have the most freedom of pretty much any character in existence when it comes to your gearset. Arcane Spell Failure exists on items, yes. But you'll either need to work with what's there or make a DC item request. Sadly no epic wizard levels for me, so no epic mage armor Apart from that, could you eloborate on the Arcane spell failure options? Is it present to a degree where you can null out the effect of wearing medium or heavy armor as well as shield without the use of Autostill III? If so, is it through the crafting or only a few select pieces? I might add I am building a necromancer 19 Wiz / 10 PM / 1 something i havent decided yet. Feats: extend, empower, maximize, blind fight, Epic Spell penetration, Autostill III Switch the wiz and PM lvls and you will get epic spells. PM15 qualifies for them. Yes I considered doing that, but that would completly kill my already very low spell penetration.. 1d20 + 10 + 6 
I might have to toy around with it a bit, epic mage armor would be nice..
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