AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - *Random Topic* Evil vs Just being an *censored*

I have seen all too many evil bullies and brutes... now that being said, I'm not saying I have not or do not have one of said characters, just that not all my evil characters are. What ever happened to all the Lex Luthers and all the other evil geniuses that are evil while still maintaining some sense of civility. Too many Chaotic Evil and not enough Lawful Evil IMHO

So I challenge all you evil doers to show us yours stuff while still and be creative when it comes to being evil!

I would like to see the good characters being creative for a change.

Having played an evil character for quite a few years, with a decent insight on how other evil characters have been played, I'm inclined to say that far too many try to be the Lex Luthers and evil masterminds.

As far as I know, there are many LE out there. I even think one of the evil factions is supposed to be LE. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I think to think I offer a modicum of creativity whilst being as Chaotic Stupid as I possibly can.

'Nuff said.[/url]

I read the OP as meaning that all too often people play Evil characters, of whatever Alignment, as baby-eating mass murderers that hate everyone and think the height of entertainment is slowly disemboweling bunnies in front of little Druid girls. A casual and completely unscientific look at the Evil PCs you meet on Amia says that most of them fall into this category and there is very little variation in how Evil is played.

On the Good spectrum we have Paladins and then we have everyone else. The Evil spectrum seems to be almost entirely made up of the Paladin-type extreme with very few of the "everyone else", and by that I don't mean the distribution of LE/NE/CE.

At best, the situation looks like this:

LE: *Looks around for the Guards to be certain nobody is watching before he tucks in and eats the baby*

NE: *Casually looks around for the Guards, not really caring, as he eats the baby*

CE: *Takes the baby onto the doorstep of Waukeen's Temple and makes sure everyone is watching as he eats the baby*

That's not to say that there aren't other types of Evil out there, there are, but they seem to be few and far between.

Mr Mago wrote:

Having played an evil character for quite a few years, with a decent insight on how other evil characters have been played, I'm inclined to say that far too many try to be the Lex Luthers and evil masterminds.

As an evil mofo like Darth, i'd imagine you've seen your share of do-gooders want to make a name for themselves by taking down Darth, so i understand that all to well.

Uberuce wrote:

I think to think I offer a modicum of creativity whilst being as Chaotic Stupid as I possibly can.

whats not to like about any of your characters Rucey? the all MOOve me in their own special ways.

What would be nice to see is a evil faction (or as stated previously even a good one) without inner turmoil and disention. Can there be an actual mob boss, and the usual network or goons from the Capos to the footsoldiers?

Interesting thought, chefwudan. There was some talk before of some sort of mafia thing, with many different dons and families, all holding on to a very, very loose set of rules and guidelines.

I agree that chaotic stupid is really just stupid.

Its actually entirely possible, except we're talking about characters with highly inflated egos, megalomania, and basic insanity.

Amia dosen't have Al Capone. The far greater majority are all Dr Evils, or your basic Captain Planet villains.

I wish however, that it wasn't.

I actually sometimes feel that evil in Amia is played like the evil in Power Rangers. >_<

Yes. Cartoon references.

Hmmm.... interesting insights.

I think there's plenty of evil stuff going on... it's just that the real "evil masterminds" never put themselves out there as "evil masterminds" or else everyone would know not to trust them.

It's like the saying, "If you can't spot the patsy, it's probably you." If you don't see what all is going on it's probably because you're the pawn in the situation.

ainjyll wrote:

Hmmm.... interesting insights.

I think there's plenty of evil stuff going on... it's just that the real "evil masterminds" never put themselves out there as "evil masterminds" or else everyone would know not to trust them.

It's like the saying, "If you can't spot the patsy, it's probably you." If you don't see what all is going on it's probably because you're the pawn in the situation.

Yea ainjyll has a point, If they were an evil master mind you wouldn't know it....in less there's a spell to revive a pile of ashes. :twisted:

Ressurection, but that's another topic entirely.

fireprooftroll wrote:

Interesting thought, chefwudan. There was some talk before of some sort of mafia thing, with many different dons and families, all holding on to a very, very loose set of rules and guidelines.

I agree that chaotic stupid is really just stupid.

Its actually entirely possible, except we're talking about characters with highly inflated egos, megalomania, and basic insanity.

Amia dosen't have Al Capone. The far greater majority are all Dr Evils, or your basic Captain Planet villains.

I wish however, that it wasn't.

I actually sometimes feel that evil in Amia is played like the evil in Power Rangers. >_<

Yes. Cartoon references.

Just make Al "The NPC" Capone.

Make him the Dorne of the evil guys.

To be frank, you have three chioces, evil and let everyone know and hate you, and see mass conquer plans fail.

Evil and noone know, having the useual friends and planning mass conquer through secrecy and maybe one day seeing -something- but you wont really feel the appreciation. After all its happening all the time and here this topic is.

Hybrid of the two, i think ray fits into it but then again i somehow think people believe ray to be an old past it fart who does nothing but ramble on about the good old days . Though some people do roleplay him as a legend believing the ramblings and such!

Either way i think amia has plenty of lex's just people dont invest time to find them.

I'm actually fairly certain there is a major NPC crime boss, that a good many people seem to know about.

The Cobbit wrote:

I'm actually fairly certain there is a major NPC crime boss, that a good many people seem to know about.

Guess I'm out of the loop for once.

Only well-known enough to be a threat within a small sphere of influence. Get to be too well-known and you may attract the attention of bigger and badder sharks that want a piece of your empire.

That is really all that needs to be said on the subject. Anything further is metagaming to the general public.

so back on topic!

I think the true problem is, evil has much more comptition, every evil faction out to get the big slice, and after wasting al;l resources to take control there quickly sent to the bottom of the pile by good.

Shame really, i think there are more evil players than good on the server

In my opinion, evil is harder to play. Simply because you're either in confrontation a lot or trying to hide your true motives. It's not an easy thing. Good's have it easy in comparison. A good just has to... well... be nice and sweet and huggy huggy lovey dovey and that's enough to be good. An evil takes a lot more, especially if you care about not pissing people off and being a total jerk. There are just as many goods and neutrals who are bullies and suck at plots as there are evils. The difference is, they don't ever get called on it. Either that or they never get a chance or give themselves a chance to shine in such a way. Mind, there's nothing wrong with being a bully, imo. It's just about doing it in a fashion where you, as a player, don't make yourself out to be a jack ass of a person.

Evil has extremely self destructive tendencies.
If its not someone in the faction trying to take over, its fighting with another evil faction over some "respect" problem.

fireprooftroll wrote:

Evil has extremely self destructive tendencies.
If its not someone in the faction trying to take over, its fighting with another evil faction over some "respect" problem.

Or having every goody-good on the server all of the sudden taking a great interest in what you happen to be doing.

Here's the difference between a good plot and an evil plot.

Good plot fails and some other goody-good comes along to help.

Evil plot fails and some other baddy-bad points and laughs.

Part of the game experience is conflict. Good has some infighting, but most of it is just different ways to get from A to B and will usually have no problem working together for a common goal... basically selfless. Evil is out for it's own ends and will only work together for as long as both parties have something to gain. As soon as one party finds a better route or a better deal... they're gonna kick the feet out from under their temporary comrade and run for the hills... basically selfish.

Instead of seeing more evil masterminds, I'd like to see more reluctant heroes. More characters who, if seeing something evil happening, don't just run over and stick their nose into what's going on. If that was to happen, you'd see more evil things happening.

With my drow matron, I have to be so careful in my planning with anything that happens on the surface. If I'm not careful, I end up with half the freakin' server breathing down my neck in a matter of minutes. Chalk it up to "epic boredom" or whatever, but it really does make me keep everything much more hush hush than I would otherwise.

I find the most interesting kind of evil character is the one that doesn't think of him/her -self as evil.

I've been on both sides in encounters with such characters and they've always been incredibly satisfying.

I think a huge problem with evil is the "look at me" factor. People want to be the supervillain but an important thing to keep in mind is that a given plot can't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry that signs up as one. As a result, I tend to play more modern forms of evil... A controversial example might be a guy that, though cool to have a beer with, regularly beats his wife.

But I'll state it again: the real problem is that people want to be villains, while evil is not exclusively comprised of them.

Logicality wrote:

I find the most interesting kind of evil character is the one that doesn't think of him/her -self as evil.

This is how I RP my evil characters. They were born and raised Lolthites. The way they view the world is a reflection of their culture, not their personal choices. In their minds, they're simply fulfilling the wishes of their Goddess and doing what their culture views as right.

OOC'ly, I know that they're evil little twits and deserve anything that a goody good happens to give them if they get caught. But IC'ly speaking, they're merely doing what they feel is "right".

I will put emphasis on the fact that what is "right" is not always what is "good".

Logicality wrote:

I find the most interesting kind of evil character is the one that doesn't think of him/her -self as evil.

I know my Bhaalyn doesn't. She's fanatically loyal to her deity (otherwise she wouldn't be preparing to do something that seems incredibly stupid), but she doesn't see the act as evil, merely proper worship.

I would actually find a character more interesting in that he is evil, knows he is evil, doesn't bother rationalizing this to himself, but simply accepts that his humanity is lost, his morals are gone, and his view of the world is not socially acceptable.

... Not to toot my own horn or anything. *ahem.*

my evil character know's there is no good and evil, and that they are just different points of views. His point of view just happens to find killing people rather interesting, so he doesn't feel any remorse for it...I mean,he is a Longdeath monk after all.

TormakSaber wrote:

I would actually find a character more interesting in that he is evil, knows he is evil, doesn't bother rationalizing this to himself, but simply accepts that his humanity is lost, his morals are gone, and his view of the world is not socially acceptable.

... Not to toot my own horn or anything. *ahem.*

Get out'a my head! (JK)

that would be interesting.

I do think the OOC bully/jackass thing goes all three ways, whether evil, good, or even neutral.

The main times I've observed OOC hard feelings from people who feel they're being bullied by stronger characters, are the occasions that involve pvp.

Nothing says "I'm a griefing jerk" better than approaching someone's character, giving the bare minimum amount of RP and an 'IC out' before mashing their build into the ground with yours. Everyone has a responsibility to RP with whoever your confronting, whether your a paladin halting a necromancer with undead servant, a gang of epic level bandits robbing passersby, or a bored neutral mage observing a conflict between other characters.

I play a villain who often preys on strangers (for entirely IC reasons, I don't do it to provoke bad feelings, though this is sometimes unavoidable), but I always give luxurious amounts of RP and multiple 'IC outs' so people feel I am trying to RP with them, in this way of predator and victim, and not looking for excuses to stomp their character.

I took up this style of villainous RP because I predicted I could involve more people with it, even if overall failure was inevitable. Many people prefer the highly secretive, "we need to speak alone" type of villain RP, which is fine. I just find it involves less people, and I like being able to interact with the entire server.

I think there's room for visible and invisible bad guys on Amia, as long as the RP is up to scratch.

Personally I find the passive, neutral characters who are present during good/evil confrontations to come across as the biggest bullies during pvp. The ones who stand there, not RPing at all, then come out with the epic spells once pvp starts, without contributing to or furthering the story at all.

Not talking about neutral characters who take a firm side against good/evil and embellish it with their own RP, mainly talking about mercenary types. I think they have the power to ruin stories with the lack of drama and tremendous amount of pvp firepower they bring to the overall good vs evil theme.

Sound post, Vaylek.

However, moreso than invisible/tolerably visible evil characters on Amia, I've seen players who use the "evil" alignment to thinly veil their desire to have a bigger e-peen than others on the intarwebz.

But as with any gameworld that has a peak population of over thirty, this is to be expected. Nothing inherently wrong with Amia, it's to do with sheer numbers.

Kudos to those who can play various evil archetypes and play them well. However, said people seem to be a minority.

average evil character wrote:

rawr i'm a big level 30 half orc with a shiny red sword and i want to pvp you to hell and back, but i'm going to pretend to have an rp reason for it because otherwise i'd get banned

OOC jerks are OOC jerks no matter what alignment they play (although they do tend to play evil). But that doesn't mean that being evil => being a jerk.

There's a big difference between OOC jerks and IC jerks - the latter are great fun.

Yes, I completely agree. However...

Yurell wrote:

(although they do tend to play evil)

Is the unfortunate point of my relatively pointless ramblings.

Anyway, evil is cool, yo. Evul isn't.

Logicality wrote:

Yes, I completely agree. However...

Yurell wrote:

(although they do tend to play evil)

Is the unfortunate point of my relatively pointless ramblings.

Anyway, evil is cool, yo. Evul isn't.

Yup, that's the point :D

Anyway, I think most people can tell whether they're playing an evil character or being an arsehat.

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

Dev Disco wrote:

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

That's a cool idea for a novel or movie, but I don't think you could pull it off successfully on Amia. Being a beuracrat would require a lot of RP with DM's I imagine, and few people play invalids

No, it just means using pickpocket in a different way and accept that you'll be killed on sight if you ever leave Cordor.

Ask Craig... he remembers me doing this on another server.

Yurell wrote:

Anyway, I think most people can tell whether they're playing an evil character or being an arsehat.

Not at all. A lot of our regular problems stem from people being unable to tell or having hugely different ideas about this. These different narratives clash all the time.

Those who avoid most of the fallout either play mostly neutral characters or within circles of people they know OOCly, I've come to realize.

I'm the master of being an arse. Who says you need to be evil to be an arse?

My Orog's as civil as they come considering I'm the only orog player on the server surrounded by a sea of Drow. Not to mention that cannibalism's borderline ban material and all the goblins think they're better and mess up the heirarchical chain... there's no other way to be an evil orc.

Dev Disco wrote:

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

"Road usage taxes." sounds still better than "Armed Highway robbery."

What? Those armed men? They are here for my protection of course of vigilante bands of armed robbers.

The trouble is that unless you reach over across the internet and alters the game of the other person, then you can't interact with them ICly either.

If you're an Ebil doing some villainy, that interaction is by definition going to be disruptive and antagonistic.

You can't be an IC bad guy without acting like an OOC bad guy too. All you can do is hope the other person understands why you're doing it: because if you don't, then nothing ever happens.

Notice that this applies to DMs too. The difference is that DMs have the luxury of being able to create a mechanically level-appropriate bad guy NPC in a few minutes, so they don't have anything like the unwillingness to let it be permakilled.

That's important since the basic plot of every DnD type thing is: Bad guy wins battle. Good guys band together. Good guys go back for round 2. Good guys win war. Bad guy dies.

That is also why you pretty much need to have a good PvP character or crew, or be much higher levelled in order to be the bad guy. There's just more goodies than bad, so you're going to lose when they get their act together, but if you don't win that first battle, nothing much happens.

The sad fact is that if you're just a griefy horse's arse with a PvP powerbuild, you can use that reasoning. The acid test is how cheerful you are about getting whupped in the end.

TormakSaber wrote:

I would actually find a character more interesting in that he is evil, knows he is evil, doesn't bother rationalizing this to himself, but simply accepts that his humanity is lost, his morals are gone, and his view of the world is not socially acceptable.

... Not to toot my own horn or anything. *ahem.*

The Green River Killer

Bad guys win battle?

When does this happen? I did not get my memo on this "winning" part for evil. Bad guys don't win, they just get beaten up.

Your evil is clearly doing it wrong, as they say.

HellScourge wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

"Road usage taxes." sounds still better than "Armed Highway robbery."

What? Those armed men? They are here for my protection of course of vigilante bands of armed robbers.

"You know this fee is very reasonable, don't you? I could of course give your previous tax records a review if you are doubting my word..."

Dev Disco wrote:

HellScourge wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

"Road usage taxes." sounds still better than "Armed Highway robbery."

What? Those armed men? They are here for my protection of course of vigilante bands of armed robbers.

"You know this fee is very reasonable, don't you? I could of course give your previous tax records a review if you are doubting my word..."

That sounds like one of my forum RP characters (another forum).

well once playinga subtle evil i can say.. it is ever so often ruined by metagamming, when I kepted Keri's alighment secret for the longest time.. no one even suspected her.. I started stating in tells and such.. suddenly she's on a list of evil chars. if you wish to play evil on amia, you have to be ready to play it half heartedly. you put your full heart into it will rip it out and eat it before your eyes

Dev Disco wrote:

HellScourge wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

"Road usage taxes." sounds still better than "Armed Highway robbery."

What? Those armed men? They are here for my protection of course of vigilante bands of armed robbers.

"You know this fee is very reasonable, don't you? I could of course give your previous tax records a review if you are doubting my word..."

I remember the character all too well Disco

I think the problem is that it was another server and the same thing I cant see happening on Amia. Different player base, different setting.. though i am welcoming anyone to prove me wrong.

Craig deathwalker wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

HellScourge wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

I personally prefer evil bureaucrats. The type that extorts money from their own invalid mother and makes sure it's legally acceptable as 'taxation'.

"Road usage taxes." sounds still better than "Armed Highway robbery."

What? Those armed men? They are here for my protection of course of vigilante bands of armed robbers.

"You know this fee is very reasonable, don't you? I could of course give your previous tax records a review if you are doubting my word..."

I remember the character all too well Disco

I think the problem is that it was another server and the same thing I cant see happening on Amia. Different player base, different setting.. though i am welcoming anyone to prove me wrong.

In fact I pulled that off, with some epics, newbies, all different *nod nod*

So, myth busted!

What ticks me off after reading this thread is that people will just assume "Oho, he's evil, he is bound to do something terrible some time in the future. We'll now ostracize him." I don't know if you had that happen to you, I've never had it happen to me. But it would flat out give me rage to have them take an alignment and reduce your character to that. There's a whole lot more going on than just alignment. Paladins murder people that aren't worthy of life in their eyes, and bad guys come home to their apartment after a robbery and help that sick lady next door with rearranging her furniture, because they always hear her cough at night and feel bad. Or whatever.

I've never had to keep an alignment secret, because I think it's a retarded concept. No one but the player knows about alignment, and ideally the player just plays the character and does not, outside of this, try to alter the impression that his character makes on the world. The character may try to create a false impression of himself, if he has ulterior motives or a naughty plan or something. But this is not a symptom of evil, merely of a character with a secret.

TormakSaber wrote:

Your evil is clearly doing it wrong, as they say.

Well... no. If Evil's losing then they're doing it right.

It means that they've scared enough people to be ganged up on. As they say it doesn't matter how big you are, if you frighten enough people to cause a mob you've signed your own lynching.

Uh the "Subtle Evil" Or "Alcapone Evil" doesn't exist on amia because you can't permakill PC. <-(Period)

I think one should not generalize evil and good. Many evil characters have very different methods and goals, and it depends on those if its correct if they are being ganged up upon. Being evil does not mean your character wants to be known as an evil git. Someone taxing a orphanage so the children die of starvation is clearly doing evil, even if he himself believes he is doing it for the good of the law and society, as its the law.

Some evil characters might even act for the "common good". I could even imagine evil members of the Triadic church, believing they are doing the work of the light without being actually part of it as they are mislead or just far too tainted.

Random Topic Evil vs Just being an censored

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