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Re: DevCrit

Ideatahs wrote:

Thing is, on all other servers I've played, the feat has been banned. And when reading through here, it sounds as if I'll be in a giant disavantage as a scimitar WM if I don't take it.[...] Any general tips on which feats are MUSTS on this server, as a meele fighter? :)

If you care about PvP you need a fortitude of at least 40. 20 of that comes from your custom gear, some more from your CON modifier and many people take Epic Fortitude to be as safe from DevCrit and Death spells as possible. There is more to PvP, but Fortitude never hurts, I've been told.

If you just care about PvMob, then you don't "need" much. Blind Fight is a non-obvious essential feat. If you go for WM and DevCrit, you'll already be fitted with many good feats. Add the usual +AB feats (Weapon Focus, Epic WF, maybe epic prowess), Epic Weapon Spec for more damage and then Improved Knockdown, if it fits.

There are some more detailed listings of usual fighter feats in this thread somewhere, too.

Regards, Ts

Thanks for the tips..! I wonder - How high is considered a 'good' AB as far as fighters go here?

My 16 WM runs 49 AB with 38 STR and 19 pre epic BAB, Epic Focus, but no Epic Prowess. I consider it dully average, but apparently it's towards the high end as far as unbuffed AB goes. I can run Power Attack on pretty much anything in the module, even without AB buffs.

Personally I don't take any rogue pre epic on an weaponmaster and made one of my poor friends who just strted nwn do the same thing.. relised fterwards maybe I should of let him take a rogue to give him an easier time. but like me I knw he's perfectionist so he will have a better time in the end when he see's his fort save and ab

and i think that 49 does check out, because I think mari has prowess and a +5 weapon of dhoom and she runs 51 ab unbuffed. if she can't hit nothing fully buffed...somethinsg wrong and it's time to run

Karvo only had 45 unbuffed and nothing bothers him in the module except bosses really.
It was always his AC that killed him.

Really Evil Pigeon wrote:

Personally I don't take any rogue pre epic on an weaponmaster and made one of my poor friends who just strted nwn do the same thing.. relised fterwards maybe I should of let him take a rogue to give him an easier time. but like me I knw he's perfectionist so he will have a better time in the end when he see's his fort save and ab

and i think that 49 does check out, because I think mari has prowess and a +5 weapon of dhoom and she runs 51 ab unbuffed. if she can't hit nothing fully buffed...somethinsg wrong and it's time to run

Torin's 49 with the +5 AB weapon. What he's missing is: 40 STR, Epic Prowess, and 20 pre epic BAB, for 52 AB.

Cleric with all the weapon prof and ab feats is better then all the other crap. They can make themselves even more uberness.

Aslong as you get a year to buff up, or don't get hit with dispels. A WM goes "one two three GO" and chopchopchopchop all day all week all year.

GS then buff

But other then that very true.

GS is not a failsafe.

Very true, I think too many people focus on how "good" a build is when buffed up, instead of how good it is in a 1-2-3 situation.

When I think buffed up, I think PvM, when I think 1-2-3 Go, I think PvP!

Have to agree, clerics are only good when they're buffed making them PvM only most of the time. And although they can run at a max of around 56-58 AB buffed, it's still no match to a buffed barbarian or paladin AB.

Agreed on all counts. PVP is lame to me so I dont worry about it. Clerics rock for PVM. Yes ticket of course those classes pwnage on a Cleric when buffed. But they cant buff themselves either.

Paladins self buffs their Ab to 55 range and Barbarians too with just a single click of rage.

Bring in a barbie drum and maybe a cot class on the paladin and they're looking at 60 AB with some more room to grow.

A cleric can solve their AB woes temporarily with a casting of Divine Power. If they're going to get slammed with a lot of spell energy, there's Spell Resistance. They are useful in PvP, but not if they have to hang around buffing all day, and not unless they've prepared spells that will actually help them or their friends.

It is true that a weapon master can do a lot of damage with their weapon of choice, but they can also stand around saying they're Henry VIII if they get their Mindblank potion dispelled and subsequently get affected by a mind-affecting spell. Every class should be able to suffer disadvantage as well as take advantage of their class features, otherwise everyone would pick The One Class.

ticket wrote:

Paladins self buffs their Ab to 55 range and Barbarians too with just a single click of rage.

Bring in a barbie drum and maybe a cot class on the paladin and they're looking at 60 AB with some more room to grow.

I so screwed Karvo up then hehe. He only has like 49-50 ab with rage.

Ok, I've got one for ya. I have a paladin but i cant decide what to take. i know for a fact 15 paladin for holy sword, then either 10CoT/5WM or 8CoT/7WM. The advantages of 10CoT are the slightly improved divine wrath, and one more to all saving throws. The 7WM will give me Ki Critical, which would bring me to a 13-20 critical with my longsword, provided the longsword is keen.
Also, should i try and get dev crit? Hes lvl 17 now, and he is getting his last WM feat next level (whirlwind attack) Then i am going to start on WM. So, theoretically i could get Dev crit too? I have every pre-epic requirement for it. And the levels right now for are 14Pala/3CoT. just incase you want to go into detail on whether i can or cannot get dev crit. Hes human and obviously STR based.

GreatPigeon wrote:

ticket wrote:

Paladins self buffs their Ab to 55 range and Barbarians too with just a single click of rage.

Bring in a barbie drum and maybe a cot class on the paladin and they're looking at 60 AB with some more room to grow.

I so screwed Karvo up then hehe. He only has like 49-50 ab with rage.

I don't think you have messed up, that is a decent amount with just rage, IMO. Though there is likely a way you could get it higher.

IF I ever rebuilt him ya i could improve it, but of ocourse lots of my characters are that way... ive rebuild and never finished working on them *shakes head* Im a lazy man

jafman30 wrote:

Also, should i try and get dev crit? Hes lvl 17 now, and he is getting his last WM feat next level (whirlwind attack) Then i am going to start on WM. So, theoretically i could get Dev crit too? I have every pre-epic requirement for it. And the levels right now for are 14Pala/3CoT. just incase you want to go into detail on whether i can or cannot get dev crit. Hes human and obviously STR based.

So, you got/will get all the required feats for Dev Crit and would have the required STR to get Dev Crit? Seems there's no reason NOT to take it.

Unless you've sacrificed some must have feats for your WM... then you could have a problem then. What will you lose out when you take Dev Crit? What are your choices?

I havent done a test yet, i'll do it right now and get back to you with the results one what i can/cannot take.

Alright... so this is kind of epic. Heh. I dont get Dev cause i forgot i had to start with 16 str instead of 18 so i cant get it without sacrificing a large portion of my feats for it. But i can get Overwhelming crit at lvl 28 or 27. But heres the fun part: with only a REGULAR longsword equipped (when my lvls are 15Pala/10CoT/5WM) after all my buffs i got a 53 ab. Thats no armor, rings, amulets, etc... just a regular longsword. That makes me happy, im going to go with that.
(and my damage isn't half-bad either!!)
Thanks for the help. I guess i coulda found that out on my own, ah well!

jafman30 wrote:

But i can get Overwhelming crit at lvl 28 or 27.

I would really recommend you not get Overwhelming Critical. The feat is rather... underwhelming. Its only use is as a prerequisite for devcrit.

Could have been worse, it could be Epic Dirty Fighting.

As it stands it does stack with Massive Criticals (and Thundering Rage) so it isn't all that bad, if you're a WM with a high crit multiplier weapon it's even better... up to 5d6 on a Scythe.

On a Longsword WM it's dealing 3d6 extra damage on a Critical Hit and since a WM is all about those Critical Hits, if you don't have Dev Crit I would have to call it useful.

It's 2d6 on a x3 weapon, a scythe would get 4d6.

Taking it Devless for the extra dash of damage is exactly the kind of dumb but fun thing I tend to do for myself but advise against for everyone else.

Before, it didn't work with massive crits which made it sort of useless. Now, it's just another splash of damage, neat if you for some reason (other than Dev) have taken Great Cleave.

Uberuce wrote:

It's 2d6 on a x3 weapon, a scythe would get 4d6.

Taking it Devless for the extra dash of damage is exactly the kind of dumb but fun thing I tend to do for myself but advise against for everyone else.

AFAIK the in-game description, which is, as you say, 2d6 on a x3 weapon, is wrong. It's 1d6 per crit multiplier, so 3d6 on x3 and 5d6 on x5.

Well, golly. I just went by NWNwiki, but I'll go and beat the bejesus out of some training dummies with Stillborn and a mundane greataxe. *hugs 19 doses of Ki Strike per day*

If I crit for more than *scribble* 170, then it's got to be 4d6.

Last edited by ticket on Thu, Jul 09 2009, 8:33 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I only wish my Long Death 18Cleric/5Monk/7WM (Scythe) had the feats to reach overwhelming critical... :cry:

But anyways I think overwhelming is well worth it to be honest, especially on WMs. I even once considered making a WM with no Dev but had overwhelming, just so the amazing damages it's capable of doing always shows up - bragging rights. ^^

Mind I came in NWN post 1.69 so maybe then it didn't stack with massive critical on the weapon... but even then, it's still nice as it'd free up a space in your weapon for vampiric regen.

Oh and Sokar's right, from the nwnwiki:

Quote:

Despite the game description, overwhelming critical actually adds an additional 1d6 for a total of (critical multiplier)d6 extra damage.

If you can take overwheln at 27 or 28, you hsould have enough feat space for greater str and dev at 30?

Karvo started with 16 str i beleive and i got dev... i dont know what i did, but he sacrificed ab though.

Uberuce wrote:

Well, golly. I just went by NWNwiki, but I'll go and beat the bejesus out of some training dummies with Stillborn and a mundane greataxe. *hugs 19 doses of Ki Strike per day*

If I crit for more than *scribble* 170, then it's got to be 4d6.

I don't know what Ki Strike has to do with it... but Overwhelming Critical only adds 1d6 on a Ki Damage Critical, regardless of the multiplier.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

Uberuce wrote:

Well, golly. I just went by NWNwiki, but I'll go and beat the bejesus out of some training dummies with Stillborn and a mundane greataxe. *hugs 19 doses of Ki Strike per day*

If I crit for more than *scribble* 170, then it's got to be 4d6.

I don't know what Ki Strike has to do with it... but Overwhelming Critical only adds 1d6 on a Ki Damage Critical, regardless of the multiplier.

Ki-Strike gives you max damage, allowing the build monkeys to test things like the exact amount of crit damage out...
*bows*

If overwhelm crit does that, then it sucks big time.

WM pvp method... spam Ki Strike eventually you will roll a 20 or high enough to crit and kick said person's ass?

ticket wrote:

Oh and Sokar's right, from the nwnwiki:

Quote:

Despite the game description, overwhelming critical actually adds an additional 1d6 for a total of (critical multiplier)d6 extra damage.

Gack...didn't read it properly.

Stllborn is my bragging rights WM. I refuse to make a scythe-wielder that isn't actually a farmboy by history, so he's not as good as NWN allows, but he's still a regular 260-280 critter, depending on what Flame Weapon can do at the time.

There's something almost touching about the times he runs with a low-damage Devcritter and they say 'LOL I get more Devs than u.'

GreatPigeon wrote:

Sokar Rostau wrote:

Uberuce wrote:

Well, golly. I just went by NWNwiki, but I'll go and beat the bejesus out of some training dummies with Stillborn and a mundane greataxe. *hugs 19 doses of Ki Strike per day*

If I crit for more than *scribble* 170, then it's got to be 4d6.

I don't know what Ki Strike has to do with it... but Overwhelming Critical only adds 1d6 on a Ki Damage Critical, regardless of the multiplier.

Ki-Strike gives you max damage, allowing the build monkeys to test things like the exact amount of crit damage out...
*bows*

If overwhelm crit does that, then it sucks big time.

WM pvp method... spam Ki Strike eventually you will roll a 20 or high enough to crit and kick said person's ass?

Ki Strike is a Monk Feat allowing an unarmed Monk to bypass DR.

*admoonished* I thoguught it was ki-critical my bad...

Uberuce wrote:

ticket wrote:

Oh and Sokar's right, from the nwnwiki:

Quote:

Despite the game description, overwhelming critical actually adds an additional 1d6 for a total of (critical multiplier)d6 extra damage.

Gack...didn't read it properly.

Stllborn is my bragging rights WM. I refuse to make a scythe-wielder that isn't actually a farmboy by history, so he's not as good as NWN allows, but he's still a regular 260-280 critter, depending on what Flame Weapon can do at the time.

There's something almost touching about the times he runs with a low-damage Devcritter and they say 'LOL I get more Devs than u.'

Haha Ruce, yeah but your consistant higher damage is better in the long run i think at least..

Sokar's just being nazi. We all understood what Uce meant.

Hi everyone,

I'm going to be making a new character. Elven Monk/Divine class. Probably Good aligned.

So the guidelines are:
Must be at least 21 monk levels
Any Elven Subrace
To include Pally or COT.

Not entirely sure where to focus his abilities. How much in what stats, etc. Monks are completely foreign to me. Can anyone help?

Narhethi wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm going to be making a new character. Elven Monk/Divine class. Probably Good aligned.

So the guidelines are:
Must be at least 21 monk levels
Any Elven Subrace
To include Pally or COT.

Not entirely sure where to focus his abilities. How much in what stats, etc. Monks are completely foreign to me. Can anyone help?

Divine Might + Epic Dodge would be nice.

21 Monk 4 Pally 5 SD is workable and the Divine Might aspect pulls your damage out of Subpar levels.

Also your going for a non-elven diety if you go divine class.

Can't really give you hints and tips on starting stats atm.

I dont think Div Might is all that good. Most monk have low Cha to maximize their AC... Instead of Charisma Id rather put those points in STR for all day damage.

I wouldn't put Divine Might on anything that doesn't have something to uberise AB.

Clerics, Bards, Barbarians, Arcane Archers and Paladins have it sewn up.

This one is for Uce and MoshingChris, and whoever else sees a way to make it better.

Previously, this was meant to be only Rogue/CoT, but the CoT bit will hardly fit the character's personality and story, which makes me uncomfortable since I obviously took it purely for powerbuilding purposes, RP not considered. Thus, I decided to dump it.

The idea with the new build is to fit the RP and personality while trying to make it powerful or efficient. I made it Rogue/Fighter/SD

Mainly, it needs to have:

- Drow
- Dual-Wielding DEX Based
- Epic Dodge
- Epic Focus on Hide & Spot
- HiPS :idea:

- Able to solo-hunt in case I couldn't find someone to help me, since this will be a self-rebuild. It would take me forever to make a rebuild with DCs.

I made and tested one with what I think would be the best gear I could afford.

Quote:

Rogue 13/Fighter 9/SD 6

AB 41/36 (One Weapon. Odd, though, since I got Ambidexterity, Weapon Finesse, 2-Weapon Fighting, Improved 2-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization) 39/34 (Dual) 35/30 (Unarmed)
AC 48
Fort 17
Reflex 28
Will 12
BAB 21

STARTING STATS

STR 8
DEX 20 (26 or 27 final)
CON 8
WIS 14
INT 14 (16)
CHA 8 (10)

LEVEL PROGRESSION

Lv1-ROGUE, Stealthy
Lv2-FTR, Weapon Finesse
Lv3-FTR, Ambidexterity, Dodge
Lv4-FTR
Lv5-FTR, Mobility
Lv6-FTR, KD
Lv7-FTR, 2-Weapon Fighting
Lv8-FTR, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization
Lv9-FTR
Lv10-ROGUE
Lv11-ROGUE
Lv12-ROGUE, Improved 2-Weapon Fighting
Lv13-ROGUE
Lv14-ROGUE
Lv15-ROGUE, Skill Focus (H)
Lv16-ROGUE
Lv17-ROGUE
Lv18-ROGUE, Improved Evasion, IKD
Lv19-ROGUE
Lv20-ROGUE, Epic Skill Focus (hide)
Lv21-SD
Lv22-SD
Lv23-SD
Lv24-SD, Epic Skill Focus (spot)
Lv25-SD
Lv26-SD
Lv27-ROGUE, Epic Dodge, Crippling Strike
Lv28-FTR (Discipline dump)

SKILLPOINTS

ROGUE: Disable Trap (31), H/MS (31), Search (31), Spot (31), Tumble (31), UMD (31)
FIGHTER: Discipline (31), Concentration (30)
SD: H/MS, Spot, Tumble

Yes, HiPS can be dumped and the SD levels can be balanced between Fighter/Rogue or just Fighter. I just got SD in case I need to hide from immediate danger. Without HiPS, I would need to run and Corner Sneak, which cannot necessarily happen... say, in the Abyss.

Can any of you make the build above better than that, if you keep the same levels of Rogue/Fighter/SD?

If not, feel free to make it better with only Rogue/Fighter, though I have a feeling that WM can also make it better.

Consider taking 9 ranger over 9 figher (and no epic weapon spec) ?

Fighter 9 = 5 bonus feats

Ranger 9 = 3 bonus feats (ambidex, two-weapon, improved two-weapon), trackless step (+4 hide and ms in wilderness), 2 favored enemies (just a bonus of course), an animal companion (cool for RP), and with 14 wis you get level 1 and level 2 ranger spells. That nets you camoflague, ultravision and cats grace. Not too shabby. + more skills.

You would lose 2 feats. Skill focus H and Weapon spec, most likely.

Kjetta wrote:

Consider taking 9 ranger over 9 figher (and no epic weapon spec) ?

Fighter 9 = 5 bonus feats

Ranger 9 = 3 bonus feats (ambidex, two-weapon, improved two-weapon), trackless step (+4 hide and ms in wilderness), 2 favored enemies (just a bonus of course), an animal companion (cool for RP), and with 14 wis you get level 1 and level 2 ranger spells. That nets you camoflague, ultravision and cats grace. Not too shabby. + more skills.

You would lose 2 feats. Skill focus H and Weapon spec, most likely.

I see your point and I did consider taking ranger. Got fighter for extra feats which now I see was useless because of the Ranger's Dual-wield. :P

But... what about AB and AC? Will it be the same? Worse? Better?

Narhethi wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm going to be making a new character. Elven Monk/Divine class. Probably Good aligned.

So the guidelines are:
Must be at least 21 monk levels
Any Elven Subrace
To include Pally or COT.

Not entirely sure where to focus his abilities. How much in what stats, etc. Monks are completely foreign to me. Can anyone help?

If you were willing to drop monk levels to 20 (and there really isn't any reason not to), on page 11 there's a devcritting Monk 20 / Fighter 4 / Champion of Torm 6 build saved from the first thread.

The build has more pre-epic feats than it knows what to do with, so switching the race from human to elf and dropping a level of fighter if you really want Monk 21 would work.

EDIT: On second look, you can't drop the fighter level without running out of epic feats. You would either have to take Monk 20, or be a Wood Elf.

BlackDahlya wrote:

But... what about AB and AC? Will it be the same? Worse? Better?[/color]

Same. Both Fighter and Ranger are full bab progression, and neither get any special ac boosts. Same saves and hp also, btw, both have fort as primary save and d10 hp per level.

Kjetta wrote:

BlackDahlya wrote:

But... what about AB and AC? Will it be the same? Worse? Better?[/color]

Same. Both Fighter and Ranger are full bab progression, and neither get any special ac boosts. Same saves and hp also, btw, both have fort as primary save and d10 hp per level.

Good. Thank you for the suggestion. ^^

Np! Also. Looks like you forgot to take a feat in 21. Epic Weapon Focus?

EDIT: Eh, and you have an epic feat in level 20. Something's up!

Kjetta wrote:

Np! Also. Looks like you forgot to take a feat in 21. Epic Weapon Focus?

EDIT: Eh, and you have an epic feat in level 20. Something's up!

Most likely, I managed to miscalculate something when taking notes on Notepad. xD

I'm basically looking for a cool build for a Frostmaiden of Auril. The general premise is to have -some- sort of spell casting, whether it is cleric or bard or wizard or sorc, and basically be pretty badassery.

I'm definitely looking to be very resistant to dev-crit and have some SD-smackeroo protection. Mostly PvP rather than PvM. Melee type.

I've explored...
monk9/Rog5/BG16
cleric19/Bard1/RDD10
cleric 29/rog1
rgn 21/rog5/bg4
brd22/RDD4/bg4

But really, I'm not sure what to get. Dev crit is a plus, but what I really want is extreme survivability vs all the PvP builds out there, while I chug true strike and whip them till they're on the floor.

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