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Sokar Rostau
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 Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 7:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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Hence the Ranger jokes.
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 7:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Annashi wrote: so i'd like to give amia another shot, but ive not played in a long time, and dont really wanna do the evil drow thing again. Im thinking a sneaky halfer type, but i really dont recall how to build characters -_-
so any suggestions for a sneaky little hin would be appreciated. I was never good at SD builds anyway. But I know I wants high bluff! thats all i know <,<
MAKE A DUERGAR!
By the way Anna, things have changed. The Bluff skill is only useful on NPC's. PC's can ignore the roll if they choose.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 7:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Annashi wrote: so i'd like to give amia another shot, but ive not played in a long time, and dont really wanna do the evil drow thing again. Im thinking a sneaky halfer type, but i really dont recall how to build characters -_-
so any suggestions for a sneaky little hin would be appreciated. I was never good at SD builds anyway. But I know I wants high bluff! thats all i know <,< MAKE A DUERGAR! By the way Anna, things have changed. The Bluff skill is only useful on NPC's. PC's can ignore the roll if they choose. I know its out of place but I let myself lose on the good roles  _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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xordae
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 9:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Things have never "changed". You could always just ignore any social skill rolls and just go by the quality of RP presented. Still, I don't think many people ignore the rolls because it makes you look like a bit of an arse, 'specially when it's reasonable to roll.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 9:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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xordae wrote: Things have never "changed". You could always just ignore any social skill rolls and just go by the quality of RP presented. Still, I don't think many people ignore the rolls because it makes you look like a bit of an arse, 'specially when it's reasonable to roll.
Or when someones taken epic skill focus in it.
I love rping with folk who have 100+ social skills.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Annashi
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 13:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Under your bed, boo!
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i was dissapointed i didnt see amia 2 on the nwn2 server list! but yea, im definately not playing a smelly duergar >_< i wanna be a halfer! _________________ 
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xordae
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 14:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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You're right, Moshing. It does get a little annoying when someone rolls a 122 Listen and assumes he will know every lie that your character tells. Had that actually happen. 
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HellScourge
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 16:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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Annashi wrote: i was dissapointed i didnt see amia 2 on the nwn2 server list! but yea, im definately not playing a smelly duergar >_< i wanna be a halfer! Amia 2 was cancelled. _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 18:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Leggomi Eggolas wrote: That wouldn't be an exploit, and That would be a silly way of doing it, because you can directly cast it on another creature, targeting their weapon.
Your drawbacks are the lack of bonus feats, Wisdom requirements for the spells, No heavy armor proficiency, and the fact that you have to put up with Ranger Jokes.
No can do. Tried that a few times, targeting another creature with Blade Thirst casts it on yourself, for reasons unknown to me. And yes, I tried several times, and made sure I wasn't targeting my own PC. Its still awesome though, but would be even more awesome if it gave bows keen as well. I always wanted a keen longbow.
As for Rangers joke, i feel cheated. I have played the class for 4 years, and never heard a single one I can remember.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 19:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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Really? Ah. Wiki said that it can target the mainhand weapon of a creature.
As well, a few choice samples:
Quote: Q: How can you tell a ranger tried to break into your house??
A: Your cat is camping his corpse
Q: What do you call a Fighter with no arms and no legs?
A: I don't know, but it's better than a Ranger.
Q: Why is ranger armor green and brown?
A: Green so they can find their corpse in the dirt and brown so they can find their corpse on the grass
Q: what do you call a druid that doesn't have any spells and thinks he can
melee?
A: A ranger!
You get the idea. _________________ 
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 19:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Oh.
Well, that shows that even though some people lack the capasity to play a class that requires more than 'target, click, kill, repeat', atleast have some fun when they try to, if they have a sense of self-inrony that is 
I like teh RL Ranger jokes better though:
Q: What do you call a candle inside a tent?
A: Ranger TV
Q: What is a better name for a B/C (Bæsj/Shit n' Carry)
A: Luxury for Rangers
Q: How many Rangers do you need to change a light bulb?
A: None, Rangers allways operate under sound and light diciplin
Q: But if you really, really need to change a light bulb?
A: Four. One to read the map, two to take out the sentries patrolling the area in which the aforementioned light-bulb is located, and one to use the FAC to call in an airstrike.
etc
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Kjetta
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
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DUDE! That's totally revamped Norwegian Army jokes!
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 20:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Thats because I was a Norwegian Border Recon dude? :p
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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xordae
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 21:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Aha, not a single build related post on the entire page 41. This needs to end.
I request you get crackin' and tell me a great build that involves at least 7 levels of WM as well as a character with low STR and a lot of DEX. Sort of like a Duelist. And no, not with lots of Rogue and Knockdown. He should rely on his normal hits, and he should dual-wield shortswords.
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 21:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Shouldnt a duelist use rapier and no shield for max awesomeness?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 22:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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QPR wrote: Shouldnt a duelist use rapier and no shield for max awesomeness?
My opinion is Yes...
And still waiting on the axe using Ranger, no wm because the feats are hard to do, and Im gonna trust op and use the plate.... though metal on a wood loving person seems off in a way _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 22:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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xordae wrote: I request you get crackin' and tell me a great build that involves at least 7 levels of WM as well as a character with low STR and a lot of DEX. Sort of like a Duelist. And no, not with lots of Rogue and Knockdown. He should rely on his normal hits, and he should dual-wield shortswords.
Uberuce's Frank is like that I believe, with handaxes, though I don't know what his build is and if here really has more than 5 WM levels. Handaxes are 1d6 base damage with 20/x3, so WM 7 makes sense (as noted above). The difference is really just one 1 damage compared to the 1d8 20/x3 normal axes, but you win 2 AB when dual-wielding.
You need Epic Dodge and want dual-wield. It eats up a few feats, so Fighter and EWS sounds reasonable. For Epic Dodge you need some combination of Rogue, SD and/or Monk, so Rogue / Fighter / WM sounds like the right combo, and don't complain about the amount of skill points and the additional sneak damage! It never hurts.
Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / WM 7 sounds very doable. Rogue 19 / Fighter 4 / WM 7 can also work, has one less Fighter feat and one more Rogue feat (+1d6 sneak). If the basic feats are very tight, you can drop to Rogue 15 / Fighter 8 / WM 7, which might actually improve your BAB as well, not sure. You certainly will have enough skill points to max Parry, if you feel like it.
That's about it. For stats, STR 14, Max DEX, CON 10+, INT 14, if you can make it fit.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 22:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Well he didn;t want rogue, didnt want kd, doesnt want a duelist weapon, at least get disarm and a cocky attitude or ye have nothing left!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 22:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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What was left on that Ranger? I myself could never play a heavy armour Ranger, but for max effectiveness: Ranger 25/Fighter 4/rogue 1
Pre epic feats that are usefull: Wep focus, Blind Fight, KD, IKD, Imp critical, whatever else you want
Epic feats: Bane of Enemies, epic wep focus, more fav enemies, and if enough str: overwhelming crit and dev crit.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Deku
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 22:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
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QPR wrote: Shouldnt a duelist use rapier and no shield for max awesomeness?
I've played a char that did this before and it wasn't a gimmick char but a tier one build on an old pvp server. How? Well Kama's were banned on this particular server....
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 23:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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QPR wrote: What was left on that Ranger? I myself could never play a heavy armour Ranger, but for max effectiveness: Ranger 25/Fighter 4/rogue 1
Pre epic feats that are usefull: Wep focus, Blind Fight, KD, IKD, Imp critical, whatever else you want
Epic feats: Bane of Enemies, epic wep focus, more fav enemies, and if enough str: overwhelming crit and dev crit.
Well to use studded leather, thats Base 3 ac? and 6 max dex so 22 max dex... It would have same AC and way less strength as the other build, so less damage.
To get to 22 dex. Cats Grace +4, Sun Soul boots +2, Chultan +2 Is there any other Ranger gear that gives dex bonuses without hurting the whole gear setting for max AC and effectiveness? Im still going to need 14 int, and 14 wis _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 23:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Well, you have to decide: do you want High damge and low AC, or OK damage and high AC?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 23:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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I dont see the difference
Plate Armor - Base AC 8 - Max Dex +1
Studded Leather- Base AC 3 - Max Dex +6
Both Builds can use shields and all the same equipment.
The Plate Armor can survive with 8 Dex, The studded Leather has to have High dex. I will be using Str mainly...
I was wondering however If Using Axes, If I could get away with going dex (it will be same ac) But I would take WM if taking decent dex. The Dex will be same as STR for AC.... But axes with x4 crit. Maybe even it out a bit? Id also consider using Improved Whirlwind... Idk, not to good with this.
Ops gonna pop in here any moment and say Plate Armor, then leave isn't he.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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QPR
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 23:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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If you are making a str ranger, go all the way and use plate. Plate also gives more AC than studded: 8+1= 9, while studded is 3+4=7.
Cloth is ofcourse superior when having more than 18 base dex, being 0+X.
If you can afford teh feats to go Wm, sure, but I dont know just how much more worth the extra multiplier on the axe really is.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 1:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue
Tuigan Subrace
19 STR, 7 dex, 10 con, 14 wis, 14 int, 8 cha
Code: Pre-Epic Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Knockdown
Improved Knockdown
Weapon Focus
Improved Crit
Epic Feats:
Bane of Enemies
Overwhelming Crit
Devastating Crit
Armor Skin
Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec
Epic Weapon Spec
2 Ranger Feats (Epic Skill Focuses or FE?)
5 Total Favored Enemies
Will have 7 skills? 4 Ranger, 2 Intelligence, 1 Human
Discipline, Concentration, Spot, Heal, Animal Empathy, Tumble, UMD
^^ Good Choices? _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 2:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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If you're taking spot ranks, take Epic Spot Focus.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 2:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Can rangers craft blade thirst wands?
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 2:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yes, but it won't give you the +5 goodiness, just the Keen, which is still pretty coo'.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 2:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Nice.
@Great Pigeon: Screw Epic spot, take craft wand. *Nodnod*
But the right choice would probably be Epic Spot & Epic prowess on your extra feats. Or Epic Spot & Craft Wand.
Craft Wand Ranger could make some big bucks with these:
Camouflage (+10 hide)
One with the land (+4 hide & move silently)
Blade thirst (Keen!)
Invisibility purge (Staple PvP spell that could surprise your enemy)
Freedom of movement (No need for freedom gear, frees up slots for more mythalling goodies)
Mass camouflage (+10 hide)
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 3:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Ok no spot ranks then... What is another option to take then.. Wont be good sneaker, wont have hips... And cant take hide and ms.... But is this a good set up other then that, anyone have anything to add?
Warhammer or Axe? I can make the warhammer keen so.... Its the same, just curious what is better in game. What has best gear support and what has the least creatures with DR...
I was actually suprised that I had enough room to put Dev Crit in there and still be fairly effective overall. What about extend spell? I couldnt find room for it.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 4:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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You have 8 pre-epic feats on a Tuigan due to human bonus feat at 1.
You'll also get one more in pre-epic as a fighter bonus feat because you -need- heavy armor proficiency early because of the 7dex
19 Ranger 1 Fighter in pre-epic.
Bludgeoning is undoubtedly the best physical damage type PvM and the worst damage type PvP.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 5:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Having a VERY hard time choosing feats... and especially classes/levels/ feats for epic. Hard to get weapon spec/ews... but also get bane of enemies early...
Edit: This is what I ended up with
Level 1 Ranger
Level 2 Fighter
Level 3-24 Ranger
Level 25-27 Fighter
Level 28 Rogue
Level 28-30 Ranger
Feats
Level 1. Power Attack, Cleave
Level 2. (fighter bonus feat) Disarm
Level 3. Wf
Level 6. Knockdown
Level 9. Imp Knockdown
Level 12. Imp Crit
Level 15. Blind-Fight (imp disarm instead?)
Level 18. Great Cleave
Level 21. Overwhelm Crit, (ranger bonus feat) Ewf
Level 24. Devastating Crit, (RBF) Bane of Enemies
Level 25. Armor Skin
Level 27. WS, EWS
Level 30. Craft Wand, Epic Prowess (Insert Skill here)
Do Rangers need extend spell?
Non buffed it will have 26 str, 7 dex, 10 con, 14 int, 14 wis, 8 cha (will be using straight str+con gear)
War Hammer/ Battle Axe.... For you Lore Nazi's Tuigan are like mongols, do these work for choice of weapon or another choice?
I could drop Armor Skin for another Epic Ranger choice (requires shuffling things up a bit)
What skills should I use. I gain 7 I beleive.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 8:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Rangers dont need extended spell, no. All your usefull spells are turns or hours/level, so at Ranger 15+, they last all day.
Also, get Bane of Enemies as quickly as possible.
But now you are into a metal-can-clumsy-no-stealth-no-spot-no-trap-thug type, so I leave the rest to Opustus.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 8:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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I thought disarm isn't allowed in Amia? Unless you're a DM.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 9:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It's allowed, that's simply Ruce's polite suggestion to everyone. I would never let a rule go through that restricts feats or skills or whatever to DM only. That's patently silly.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 9:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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But isn't it worse than pick pocket as it allows people to take out epic items? *shrugs* I'd never use it.
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xordae
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 9:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Thanks for your replies. Yeah, Rogue makes for the most powerful augmentation as a Duelist, but I wanted to stay away from that for a reason. I wanted no sneak attacks. Sneak attack reliance forces you towards a certain style of play where you either knock down, incapacitate or otherwise distract your opponent so you can land sneaks. And you feel like a klutz when you don't have that additional damage.
To take this away, I though about something like.. 12 Fighter / 11 Monk / 7 WM, DEX based. No Epic Dodge here, but you get a +2 AC and poison and disease immunity on top. Epic Weapon Spec makes up a large part of the damage, I'll just have to see if the AC will be decent.
A face-on DEX fighter is a rarity and I wanted to see how he fares. Improved Disarm and Called Shot are both pretty mean feats and I planned on those, too. IKD is a given thanks to Monk.
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Kjetta
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 9:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
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How about Monk 6, WM 7, Paladin 17? Not sure if it works, but if you go dex based with rapier and no shield, at least you get a bit of ac bonus from wisdom? DC Request something with Owl Insight castings and you're good to go. Paladin get taunt as a class skill too. Seems fitting.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
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Ts_
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 10:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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xordae wrote: at least 7 levels of WM as well as a character with low STR and a lot of DEX. Sort of like a Duelist. And no, not with lots of Rogue and Knockdown. He should rely on his normal hits, and he should dual-wield shortswords. Ts_ wrote: Rogue 17 / Fighter 6 / WM 7 GreatPigeon wrote: Well he didn;t want rogue, didnt want kd, doesnt want a duelist weapon, at least get disarm and a (censored) attitude or ye have nothing left!
I was aware of that ... But Rogue is a nice class, and you won't be sneaking in a duel anyway, and nobody forces you to use KD ... So it doesn't hurt you at all and adds nice PvM options. And you should not be DEX-based without Epic Dodge, so the Fighter/Monk/WM is out. Besides, Epic dodge is the equivalent of a back-flip onto the table in one of those pirate tavern brawls, so you must have it as an epic duelist. (Imho, a "Duelist" is mostly a "Haha, you can't hit me" build to give you plenty of time to emote complex combat emotes and to ridicule your opponent.)
Most interestingly though, dual-wielding + EWS + WM actually result in a nice damage output even without high Strength and even without sneaks. With improved two weapon fighting you're looking at 6 attacks / round (without haste). A STR-based sword+board will do about 6 more damage / hit (STR 26 instead of 14), but your two additionals attacks should compensate that (at -2 AB, though), plus you have infinitely more defense.
The problem is: The feat requirements are just insane ... You need/want about 14 preepic feats not counting the Rogue bonus feats for Epic Dodge (see below). Rogue 13 / Fighter 10 / WM 7 has _almost_ enough feats, but you need to make some sacrifices. And this is without IKD and without Disarm.
So, Fighter 12 / SD 10 / WM 8 might be good. Sadly (imho), you lose all the sneaks but get slippery mind and one more fighter feat. With HIPS you can get out of most duels easily, should they not turn out in your favor, just like all SDers. You're not a perfect hider, though, (Hide 107 if you can fit in the epic skill focus and +50 gear). A dedicated spotter should catch you quickly again.
Anyway, just to give you an idea, what feats you need.
in preepic:
Weapon master requirements (6 feats)
dodge, mobility, expertise, spring attack
weapon focus, whirlwind attack
dualwield:
ambidex, twf, itwf
absolutely necessary general skills:
weapon finesse, blind fight, Weapon Spec
That's 12 feats that you must not avoid.
not strictly necessary feats are: (you can squeeze in at most 2 of these)
Improved Crit, Knock Down, IKD, Disarm
In epic the ideal set would be:
Epic Dodge
Epic Weapon Spec
Epic Weapon Focus
Armorskin
Epic Skill Focus Spot
Epic Fortitude
optional: Epic Skill Focus Hide
6-7 epic feats ... That's somewhere between 19 feats and 22 feats that you would want in total.
Let's look at what you have as Fighter 12 / SD 10 / WM 8.
human: 8 feats + 4 epic feats.
fighter 12: 7 feats
So that's 19 in total. So the core should fit, but you have to make a choice between KD, Disarm, the epic skill focuses etc.
Since you don't have sneaks, Hide isn't so important to you, it's just the getaway option. You can drop it and just take SD for Epic Dodge and once in a while to break your opponents attack chain. (You still can run around with 80+ Hide/Move failry easily, which makes life hard for most people but dedicated Spoters that would catch you even with ESF Hide.)
Just take Disarm from the "not strictly necessary" list and there you have it. A very well defended Epic dodging hipsing duelist WM with dualwield and disarm, decent damage and absolutely no sneaks (and no UMD).
I would rather do Rogue 13 / Fighter 10 / WM 7 for a little more PvM usuabilty, but Zoro would take SD ... (and exotic weapon prof for the whip, but that's strictly inferior to taking Disarm directly).
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 10:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Kjetta wrote: How about Monk 6, WM 7, Paladin 17? Not sure if it works, but if you go dex based with rapier and no shield, at least you get a bit of ac bonus from wisdom? DC Request something with Owl Insight castings and you're good to go. Paladin get taunt as a class skill too. Seems fitting.
That sounds nice. I'd go for dual wield hand axes and it could be a killer.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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The trouble with going DEX without Sneak Attack is that there's precious little else that grants damage and Epic Dodge, and that's a must-have.
Ts_ guessed well about Frank, he's Ftr6/WM7/Rogue17. That can't dualwield without item feats, but he's built to be a capable face-on fighter so he uses a shield most of the time anyway.
Obviously, Plan A is cornersneaking, but just being a WM/Ftr with Epic Dodge makes him better than most at duelling. Damage is 25/hit and crits for 100.
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xordae
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 12:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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The build I made got to 62 AC buffed & hasted, had about 45 AB (meh) and better damage than a DEX Monk, though still underwhelming. It's really a little short on every corner. I'd rather have 2 more Fighter levels cause Feats are rare and one more Monk level to get 22 SR for free too.
You get the Wisdom bonus to AC too if you dual-wield, by the way. Was mulling over a Paladin build myself, but there really aren't many Stat points to spare for Charisma, and the Divine Feats would take up another three, while Paladin gets no bonus feats. This is near impossible to all deposit within a single build. Would have to ditch the WM.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 13:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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QPR wrote: Rangers dont need extended spell, no. All your usefull spells are turns or hours/level, so at Ranger 15+, they last all day.
Also, get Bane of Enemies as quickly as possible.
But now you are into a metal-can-clumsy-no-stealth-no-spot-no-trap-thug type, so I leave the rest to Opustus.
Since I am taking 1 level of fighter, in pre-epic level 24 is the earliest I can get Bane of Enemies... I cant find a way to get it any earlier. Can Op or Ruce give my build up there the once over please? _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 13:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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GreatPigeon wrote: QPR wrote: Rangers dont need extended spell, no. All your usefull spells are turns or hours/level, so at Ranger 15+, they last all day.
Also, get Bane of Enemies as quickly as possible.
But now you are into a metal-can-clumsy-no-stealth-no-spot-no-trap-thug type, so I leave the rest to Opustus. Since I am taking 1 level of fighter, in pre-epic level 24 is the earliest I can get Bane of Enemies... I cant find a way to get it any earlier. Can Op or Ruce give my build up there the once over please? Quote: Level 30. Craft Wand
NO! drop disarm for craftwand in pre-epic. Jeebus lad wasting an epic feat like that.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Ts_
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 13:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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xordae wrote: The build I made got to 62 AC buffed, had about 45 AB (meh) and better damage than a DEX Monk, though still underwhelming. It's really a little short on every corner. I'd rather have 2 more Fighter levels cause Feats are rare and one more Monk level to get 22 SR for free too.
You should just ask yourself where you want to be on the PvP ladder and how useful you want to be in PvM, and if you care about your party.
The Rogue / Fighter / WM will do decent damage in PvM and additionally has some nice Rogue skills. It should do okay in PvP with KD, but you're mostly competing against the tankly dev-critting types, because high-sneak SDs and mages will probably kill you quickly.
The Fighter / WM / SD, that I suggested, will do a lot less damage in PvM, since SD doesn't add much damage if you can just as well flank for your sneaks, and you don't sneak anyway, so it's basically 10 wasted levels in PvM. Similarly, in PvP you're no longer competing against tanks, because you might not hurt them enough to kill them (definitely, if heals are allowed). However, you can always escape or drag out fights until the opponent is bored.
The Monk / Fighter / WM runs away instead of pressing F1, but doesn't have much damage either, so don't expect to kill anyone. I would rate it similarly to the Fighter / WM / SD for most things ... Defense in PvM (where you don't want to run away) will be good due to the AC, even if you lack Epic Dodge. (Btw, 22 SR won't mean a thing in PvP, even if it cannot be reduced. Drow and Smurfs run around with 29 SR after Mordy!)
A combat-oriented str-based monk (something like Monk 20 / Fighter 5 / WM 5 ?) will do more damage in general than the two non-sneak builds above and has AC comparable to any other tank, and might kick your butt in combat because you cannot run away from that one, and might not be able to hide reliably. Of course it's not what you want, but it tells you where the non-sneak builds sit in the PvP ladder: Below tanks, below STR-based monks, maybe equal to DEX-based monks, but with no outstanding feature whatsoever.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 14:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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MoshingChris wrote: GreatPigeon wrote: QPR wrote: Rangers dont need extended spell, no. All your usefull spells are turns or hours/level, so at Ranger 15+, they last all day.
Also, get Bane of Enemies as quickly as possible.
But now you are into a metal-can-clumsy-no-stealth-no-spot-no-trap-thug type, so I leave the rest to Opustus. Since I am taking 1 level of fighter, in pre-epic level 24 is the earliest I can get Bane of Enemies... I cant find a way to get it any earlier. Can Op or Ruce give my build up there the once over please? Quote: Level 30. Craft Wand NO! drop disarm for craftwand in pre-epic. Jeebus lad wasting an epic feat like that. *slaps self in head* Oh snaps Id new that would happen. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 15:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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TormakSaber wrote: If you're going to do rogue 1, you may as well do bard 1. The point of Rogue is generally the Rogue 2 for Evasion. Not really. Rogue gives you 1d6 sneak, which Ranger has more use than any non-sneaky character. And bards with only 8 Charisma and no skill in Perform are a bit bleh. Also grants you a couple of more skill points, which isn't really that important. With bard you get Spellcraft, but it's NEVER worthwhile enough for a ranger, because you have so much better use for those skill points; Set trap and AE are the skills you won't usually get as high as you'd like to, so putting them there is a plan. Even dropping a few points in MS and Hide makes you a capable cornersneaker, even though you waddle in a full-plate. Naturally it's useless against those who have maxed their detection skills. If you max Spellcraft instead of Spot as a ranger, you deserve a slap. GreatPigeon wrote: Since I am taking 1 level of fighter, in pre-epic level 24 is the earliest I can get Bane of Enemies... I cant find a way to get it any earlier. Can Op or Ruce give my build up there the once over please?
Nawp. Just take it at your 23rd Ranger level. I just went straight 23 Ranger -> 4 Fighter -> 1 Rogue -> 2 Ranger, with my own wee chubby treehugger. _________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 15:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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ticket wrote: Kjetta wrote: How about Monk 6, WM 7, Paladin 17? Not sure if it works, but if you go dex based with rapier and no shield, at least you get a bit of ac bonus from wisdom? DC Request something with Owl Insight castings and you're good to go. Paladin get taunt as a class skill too. Seems fitting. That sounds nice. I'd go for dual wield hand axes and it could be a killer. It's a disaster. And even though I'm not a DM, I have to express my opinion: That Owl's Insight 1/day sounds too powerful when it's meant for a build like that. I'd understand if it was only for Spot-buffing purposes, but meh. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Arcane9999
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 16:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Location: Retired from Amia
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A build related question for you guys!
I'm thinking about making a melee sorcerer type of character..
How does sorcerer, blackguard, fighter sound? Any advise?
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HellScourge
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Posted: Mon, Jun 29 2009, 17:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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Sorcerer, BG and PM?
Well, your AB will not be to good, but you will be immune to sneak attacks, crits. Have +6 AC and some nice saves
i take it you want to get at least level 9 spells, yes?
That would be 17 sorc, 3 BG, 10 PM?
Feel free to drop PM though... I am not sure sure if Sorcs can even become PM's, or if that is just bards and wizards.
Alternatively, 5 Fighter levels, 3 BG at least, and the rest sorcerer. 22 Most probably.
Take the 2 fighter/3 bg levels pre epic for 4 attacks per round.
The other 2 fighter levels and sorc levels for automatic silent spell 3, also push in some epic spells, like mummy dust or DK.
it should come out with some neat AC, although you will miss out 5 AC from tumble.
_________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...]
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