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Uncle-Opustus
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 Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 16:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Yes? Can be other levels too, but the Divine grace/Dark blessing as a sorcerer is the main thing.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 17:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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That's not what makes a Paladhoom.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Ts_
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 17:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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(wrote this a few minutes ago, and now added this note to stress my prophetic abilities)
Paladhoom = Sorcerer 28 / Paladin 1 / Monk 1 or something. As Tormak would probably tell you (or not), it's not just the powerful class combo (high-level sorc, awesome saves, evasion and access to lots of skills), it's also some special combat routine that needs twitchy fingers and player skill. I guess gear also helps.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 17:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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That's the closest anyone's come, yes, but that's not exactly it, no I'm not telling.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 19:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Though I generally dislike RDD as a class and know uberuce dislike them even more, Im curios if it could be used to make a decent Green Dragon'ish char without being cheesy. As I see it, there are two options for a green dragon'ish char. Either lots of druid and Dragon Shape, or Ranger/something/RDD if RDD can be changed to GDD.
So, how would one make a decent Ranger/RDD. It does not need to be awesome, njust not a total party leech. Im guessing something like Ranger 16/Bard4/RDD10 for 4 attacks per round, as many Ranger levels as possible, and tumble and UMD spread evenly around char developement?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Swallow the Stars
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 19:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Location: Southeast (USA)
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QPR wrote: Though I generally dislike RDD as a class and know uberuce dislike them even more, Im curios if it could be used to make a decent Green Dragon'ish char without being cheesy. As I see it, there are two options for a green dragon'ish char. Either lots of druid and Dragon Shape, or Ranger/something/RDD if RDD can be changed to GDD.
So, how would one make a decent Ranger/RDD. It does not need to be awesome, njust not a total party leech. Im guessing something like Ranger 16/Bard4/RDD10 for 4 attacks per round, as many Ranger levels as possible, and tumble and UMD spread evenly around char developement?
Honestly.. there are four different amounts of Ranger a person should want to take - if taking it at all. 25 levels, 21 levels, 9 levels, and 1 level. 16 is sortof.. bleh.
_________________
Espiel Callahan
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 19:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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That I know, still, Ranger is the only class that fits the concept, aside from druid.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 20:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You lose the free wings and acid stuff, but I would do 25 ranger/1 bard/4 RDD. This however loses the lategame tumbledump so you're probably really looking at 24 ranger/2 bard/4 RDD.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2009, 22:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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I'd still consider 25/1/4, though. The goodystuff you get on level 25 ranger is really comparable to +3 AC.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 0:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: I'd still consider 25/1/4, though. The goodystuff you get on level 25 ranger is really comparable to +3 AC.
Pet Ac goes up? What lese? I just woke up am I missing the obvious? _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 4:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Sidebar has the skinny:
Familiars and Animal Companions
The summoned creature gains the following benefits:
• Armor Class +1 / 2 CL
• Claw Enhancement +1 / 5 CL
• Regeneration +1 / 5 CL
• Attack Bonus +2 / 5 CL
• Universal Saving Throw Bonus +1 / 5 CL
• Resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage
• 1st – 10thCL: 5/-
• 11th – 20th CL: 10/-
• 21st – 30th CL: 15/-
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Thanks 
forgot about the pet getting +5 claw, saving throw, and all that other jazz.
The boar seems kind of weak right now, friends bear at same level is way stronger. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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You also get an extra epic feat at 25 Ranger, but rangers aren't tight on feats anyway.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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If im not mistaken, rangers get epic feats at every 3rd and 5th level? Also they get all the dual wielding feats for free. Im using kukri's going fordev crit, but debating using hand axes instead to get the x3 crit
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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Go handaxes. Kukris are ugly weapons that smell.
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Was thinking that but sense he was going dev crit, eh, was going to spam and pray for 1s. He is pvm, dont care much for pvp. 25 ranger, 3 monk, 2 assasin is plan. Gotta get with Kjetta to get in wth hte Hoarites.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Bobo_Underhill wrote: Kukris are ugly weapons that smell. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 8:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Is kukri better then Kama? That is the question *rubs stubble* I was debating handaxe for the non dev damage, Im dual wielding and using the monk levels of course for free cleave,evasion, tumble and AC _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 9:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Meh...
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 9:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Shup, Im not superbuilder like you mr. tater
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Dual-wielding kukris is one of those things that automatically makes people think 'PvP Happy Assclown'. Just the way of the world.
And the weapon model is hideous.
There's also a reasonable number of people that think Devcrits when you're normally scoring under 100 for damage make you look like an idiot. That build's crits will actually overlap a few of the more dedicated damage cannons' regular hits, and that would have me retiring the character instantly and permanently in a fit of shame.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Yeah true.... but they do go poof when you crit!
Yurrel telling me on MSN about that, I suck with the numbers but hand axes still give good AB since they are tiny or small weapon... That x3 crit does look pretty nice however.
PvP is kinda lame to me anyway, most peopel start buffing in conversation thats leading to pvp (can you just knock them on their bloody arese when this happens?)
And Handaxe damage?
Blade thirst is free keen and GMW +5 (at high enough levels, its kinda sorta rangery, like hatchet, but without the queer kid) Im guessing Damage is.... 1d6+(str mod of oh say 14)+5(gmw)+1-8(flame scrolls)+1d6(weapon elemental damage)... I have to be missing something... Oh yeah Bane of Enemies 2d6 and +5 damage per hit...
Would my ranger be better off going Dev Crit or Dex (dont think its fitting to get epic dodge on him, lost to much stuff? x3 crit makes up for some good damage + the pet... I figured Dev Crit at levle 30 having 51 AC while dual wielding if full buffed with pots on self no haste.
The dex build i liable to hve anoyher 6-7AC I beleive... *shrugs* And 10 less damage per hit, and of course no Dev... Helps _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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I'd go Str even if you didn't take Dev. It's not honestly that great, when you're dealing critical strikes of 250 already.
My dwarven waraxes dual-wielding ranger dwarf deals about 180 damage to regular mobs, but that's beefed up to 250 when he fights against his favoured enemies. I think I've even done a 280.
Or then I'm screwing up with numbers and getting confused with the hundred characters I have.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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xordae
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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Look at it this way: If you fill up Dex enough to wear Studded Leather, you get 3 AC for free. While a full Dex build gets no AC for free (cloth has no bonus). I believe the usual consensus is that you start with decent Dex (15 Dex + 3 from Sun Soul boots fills up the Dex Mod) but max out your Strength.
Also the most awesomest Druid/Ranger armor is Studded Leather, if it is still in the module.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Will use monk levels for free cleave and AC so cloth is the way to go, has great armor for takign advantage of dex and wis.
Never seen the ranger/druid gear Id like to before I build though..
@ Op- really *jaw drops* Id consider using 1 hander and shield, but kind of like using the dual wield feats.
I didnt know about hte massive damage with no dev crit... Having 10 less STR bonus, unless Im wrong gives 30 less damage? Is that worth getting say 6 more ac? Or since the best ranger armor....
Whats the ab penalty for dual wielding handaxes? -2 each hand, How about battleaxe/dwarven waraxe? A ranger with an axe is sounding great though.
I wanna see the ranger gears! *runs to forest lookign for druids*
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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GreatPigeon wrote: @ Op- really *jaw drops* Id consider using 1 hander and shield, but kind of like using the dual wield feats.
I didnt know about hte massive damage with no dev crit... Having 10 less STR bonus, unless Im wrong gives 30 less damage? Is that worth getting say 6 more ac? Or since the best ranger armor....
Whats the ab penalty for dual wielding handaxes? -2 each hand, How about battleaxe/dwarven waraxe? A ranger with an axe is sounding great though
The best ranger armour? Actually, the best choice is to get a set of gloves with Ambidexterity and Two-weapon fighting and wear a full-plate. This doesn't disable your Improved two-weapon fighting feat.
I would never swap Str to Dex as a Ranger, because I'm a damage-o-holic.
You will dual-wield AND sword 'n' broad. It's easy to swap into shield + weapon in combat, when you need to. It's also easy to swap back. You'll reach a feasible AC 51 when you use a shield.
Dual-wielding handaxes gives you a -2 penalty, dual-wielding the bigger axes mean a -4 penalty. You can hit a barn door with that AB, I recall having AB 45 even when I dual-wielded those tewwibly heavy axes. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 10:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Hmmm well... He is gonna be a Hoarite (planned) Axes look friggin awesome. Sounds good. If I took monk however I get the free cleave (smiles with glee and same AC)
*snaps* I think it wuold be hard to max out dex, wis, and str... Im going full plate route I guess. Offer some stats and help for that? Complete different then what I ahd planned.. dont need monk now, but Id like tumble and UMD... 25 ranger 5 rogue? Or 28 ranger 2 rogue ( more feats less skills)
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 11:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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So i'm thinking of making an out and out undead hunter. 21 Ranger 5 Fighter 4 Paladin. Div Might/Shield/Epic Weapon Spec/Bane of Enemies + Craft Potion or Wand wielding a warhammer.
Is the 6 damage from EWS worth nerfing the pet so severely?
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 11:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Id guess no, as I assume the pet gets more then 6 damage per hit if you have 4-5 more CL 25 is good.... Can you do 25 Ranger 4 pally, 1(tumble)
Edit: I do really like this build idea however
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 12:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: My dwarven waraxes dual-wielding ranger dwarf deals about 180 damage to regular mobs, but that's beefed up to 250 when he fights against his favoured enemies. I think I've even done a 280.
Crits like that need an x4 mod, so you're a Ranger/WM, I suppose (in which case an 19-20/x2 weapon would have been better than a 20/x3 waraxe, or you need WM 7).
Candidates for lots and lots of damage: Ranger 25 / WM 5 or Ranger 21 / WM 5 / Fighter 4 for even more damage or Ranger / WM / Divine Mighter.
Damage vs. non-favored enemies that Opustus could do:
Base weapon: 1d10
Elemental on Weapon: 1d6
Wonderforged: 1d10
STR mod 14 (base STR 26)
Blade Thirst 5
Flame Weapon 1d12
Power Attack 5
= 28 to 62, avg 44.
That crits for 176 on average, so your number is correct.
Favored enemy with Ranger 21 adds +5 +2d6, so 12 on avg, 17 max. That means you can crit for up to 320 damage against a favored enemy, 220 on average.
I guess when you're dual-wielding those axes, the average damage output against a FE with 40 AC is close to 500 damage / round ... I hate you.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Deku
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 12:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
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You can add elemental damage to a wonderforged weapon? 
Damn I didn't know that. I'm such a noob.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 12:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Ranger / WM / Divine Mighter
I want this... but with shield as well please, Its soooo up my alley
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 12:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Deku wrote: You can add elemental damage to a wonderforged weapon? Damn I didn't know that. I'm such a noob.
Actually, I don't know either. You might have to subtract the elemental damage and add a Bard Song to compensate. Somewhere in general discussion someone explained the possible combinations of weapon bonus damage in detail ...
My point was simply to explain how you get to that kind of damage.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 13:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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This being for the.... Ranger/WM/Div Might+Div Shield
Good
21 Ranger/ 5 wm/ 4 paladin
21 Ranger/ 7 wm/ 2 cleric
Evil
21 Ranger/ 5 wm/ 4 BG
Is this accurate as per my options?
No Tumble or UMD however  [/u] _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 13:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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GreatPigeon wrote: Ranger / WM / Divine Mighter
I want this... but with shield as well please, Its soooo up my alley
Shield doesn't matter, Ranger can always switch to dual-wielding when they feel like it.
Feats are very very tight. Divine Might needs 3 preepic feats (Power Attack, Cleave, Divine Might), WM needs another 6, plus you want Blind Fight and Improved Crit. That's 11 feats ... That will eat some of your epic feats, no doubt. Necessary epic feats would be BoE, EWF, Armorskin. As a ranger, you would have to push two Favored Enemy level into epic to take EWF or BoE instead of a FE, so you will have only 3 FEs then.
Human: 8 feats preepic, 4 in epic, 2 Ranger feats + 3 FEs. A little ugly.
Divine Shield would make things even harder, I guess, and remember that you can use both Divines only 3 + CHA modifier per day in total.
The Ranger 21 / WM 5 / Fighter 4 has more feats, needs less feats, and deals +6 damage all day whereas a buffed divine mighter deals +8 or +10 (bae CHA 14 or 18) not all day.
Feats for a human would be: 8 preepic (WM feats, IC, Blind Fight), 4 in epic (BoE, normal Weapon Spec, Skill Foucs, Epic Fortitude), 3 fighter in epic (Armorskin, EWF, EWS) + 5 FEs.
The two additional FEs can help a lot more than a bit more Divine Might damage, I think, although the Divines will be helpful against bosses.
The easier-to-level variant takes 1 Fighter in preepic, to have the heavy armor proficiency earlier. You trade Epic Fort for Great Fort then, I guess, so in total you lose about 1 Fort for a bit more AC in your teens.
Just my thoughts.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 14:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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meand Divine shield....  _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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xordae
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 18:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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The Divine feats don't need Cleave, only Power Attack.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 20:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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xordae wrote: The Divine feats don't need Cleave, only Power Attack.
Good point. I've been looking at Blackguards for too long ... So, the adjusted builds:
Ranger 23 / WM 5 / Cleric 2 is the easiest for divine might & shield, it doesn't have the saving throw bonus, though. Ranger 23 is another FE or bonus feat, so you could end with both divines and 4 FEs.
Ranger 21 / WM 5 / Paladin 4 has 3 FE and both divines.
Ranger 21 / WM 5 / BG 4 has 3 FE and still has to cut a feat somewhere to get Divine Shield. You see, crime doesn't pay.
Of course, you can drop Epic Weapon Focus (taken as Ranger bonus feat) for a Favored Enemy, but you cannot take new FEs as general feats. So you're Ranger level is a pretty hard bound for the number of FEs you have, unless you start as a Gold Dwarf, which comes with a useful FE as bonus feat, but loses the Human 1st level bonus feat, so it doesn't really matter much.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 20:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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If using a x3 crit weapon, axe fo-sho. Is it worthwhile to go WM?
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 20:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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GreatPigeon wrote: If using a x3 crit weapon, axe fo-sho. Is it worthwhile to go WM?
WM will always make you hit harder, no matter what weapon you use (against things that are not crit-immune).
However, WM disturbs the balance between the various crit modifiers.
20/x3 usually adds twice the damage on a 5% chance, so that's like 10% more damage.
19-20/x2 adds the damage only once, but on a 10% chance, so it's also 10% more damage.
Scimitars, kukri, rapiers with their 18-20/x2 already have 15% more damage.
Scythes with 20/x4 have 20% more damage.
Improved crit and/or Keen only mean you multiply these numbers by 2 or 3 again, it doesn't affect the ratios. As long as you always hit in the threat range (but maybe not a critical hit), the AC of your opponent doesn't really matter either.
Now, with WM 5:
20/x4 is 15% more compared to no crits at all.
19-20/x3 is 20% more.
18-20/x3 is 30% more.
20/x5 is 20% more.
You see how swords are suddenly a bit better than axes. With improved crit and keen, axes will deal only 145% of the non-crit damage in average, whereas swords will deal 160% of the non-crit damage (and scimitars 190%).
The longer crit range at WM 7 again changes things, but this time higher crit multipliers benefit more since the length change is the same for all weapons.
With improved crit, keen and WM 7 you're looking at:
16-20/x4 with 75% more.
13-20/x3 with 80% more.
10-20/x3 with 110% more. (less, if you start missing in the threat range)
16-20/x5 with 100% more.
Now axes and swords are pretty much equal again. So if you want to go to WM 7 or more, you can use an axe. Otherwise, you should use a weapon with a longer threat range, if you want to maximize damage (or a scythe, if twohanders are okay).
However, the real choice is much tougher:
18-20/x2 weapons are lame, because everyone knows that they maximize damage. Besides, Kukris are ugly, even though they are the best choice for a dual-wielding WM.
Scythe WM is also overdone.
Swords are the standard, but even with WM you won't see those nice numbers around 200.
Axes, hammers etc deal a little bit less damage, but can look much cooler and you can show off with impressive numbers.
So, you'll do fine with an axe, but it would be better suited for a build that has a few more level to spare, or no WM at all.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 21:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Im pretty stuck on the axe wielding Ranger then if no dm. Taking wm levels out I know decreases damage but frees up a lot of feats and attributes. I can put dex at 8 instead of 13 now.
2 Handers lose to much AC for me to be happy.
Ranger/Rogue?
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 21:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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25 Ranger/4figter/1Rogue?
Cant really figure out a way to div might and div shield and make it effective. Going STR based non dev critter
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 23:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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If you're going to do rogue 1, you may as well do bard 1. The point of Rogue is generally the Rogue 2 for Evasion.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jun 27 2009, 23:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Think Im just gonna leave it to the Build Champions here. Human, debating subrace or not, dwarven war axe or battleaxe. Make it ricketh da arse *nodnod* Starting stats, feats and all that jazz, please? _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Annashi
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 0:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Under your bed, boo!
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so i'd like to give amia another shot, but ive not played in a long time, and dont really wanna do the evil drow thing again. Im thinking a sneaky halfer type, but i really dont recall how to build characters -_-
so any suggestions for a sneaky little hin would be appreciated. I was never good at SD builds anyway. But I know I wants high bluff! thats all i know <,<
_________________ 
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 0:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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In this server the sure strike weapons are all keen, including non edged weapons. Will blade thirst work on other weapons besides slashing? jc
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 0:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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Blade thirst adds Keen Edge to any weapon regardless of type.
_________________ 
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 4:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Leggomi, is that an exploit if I used it on a weapon and handed it back to a party member? Keen Hammer... Zuahahha...
So in short them Rangers are equivalent to fighters with another fighter tagging along with them, that can penetrate premonition and the likes... and they get bonus to damage vs things they hit?
*falls on bed backwards covered in roses*
Im in love
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Leggomi Eggolas
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 5:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
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That wouldn't be an exploit, and That would be a silly way of doing it, because you can directly cast it on another creature, targeting their weapon.
Your drawbacks are the lack of bonus feats, Wisdom requirements for the spells, No heavy armor proficiency, and the fact that you have to put up with Ranger Jokes.
_________________
Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jun 28 2009, 5:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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But you get a pet!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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