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I have a question, and General Discussion may be the wrong place for this, but according to the subraces, and the way that Amia uses them, Drow start out with a spell resistance of 11 (+1 per character level).

Why is this? What makes the drow so that they have a spell resistance? Forgive me for not knowing better, since i'm not hardcore into the lore behind the races, but i was under the assumption that drow were just elves turned evil. Wouldn't this make it so that the elves have a SR of 11 (+1 per CL)?

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Thanks!

This is purely speculation so don't go off on a rant if I'm completely wrong here, but I believe while the drow were once elves who fell from grace, it's their adaptation to their new lives and environments over the course of time (centuries? millenia?) that has changed them to be so different from elves; and in this case have the spell resistance. Not to mention that elves as a race are rather prone to magic so they might have used it to change themselves resulting in the resistance as an after effect. Though anyone who has the real answer please step forward

I believe it was a side effect of the Elven High Magic ritual that was used to summon the aid of the Seldarine to curse the Ilythiiri into drow (correct me if I'm wrong).
Another side effect was that all Dark Elves were turned into drow, not just the Ilythiiri.

And the spell resistance comes from the high magical nature of the underdark, if I remember it correctly.

No idea but I read from someone somewhere in the boards here that it might be because of the environment in the Underdark. Deep gnomes get them too but not sure why Duergars don't...

AFAIK, drow spell resistance is dependent upon the faerzress radiation of the UD. Drow that completely leave the subterrainian regions eventually lose much of their resistance to magic, though that's not really reflected on this server, as it'd require the implementation of a new subrace. The resistance is burned away by sunlight, much as sunlight destroys drow-crafted magical items in PnP, I believe.

Gers wrote:

<snip>
The resistance is burned away by sunlight, much as sunlight destroys drow-crafted magical items in PnP, I believe.

Wasn't it declared void with 3.5?

The taint in the blood that gives the SR, if you accompanied The Lady Penitent series.

Honestly, I'm not sure, Dahlya... I do know though, that Dark Elves (surface drow) have like 11 SR, but it doesn't increase. And the destruction of drow-crafted items by sunlight was negated after events in the some of Elaine Cunningham's novels. I can't recall the name of the trilogy off the top of my head, but it was the one with Liriel Baenre and Feodor. I've just always treated things as being, on Amia, as occuring after that series, given we've no script to destroy drow stuff on the surface. Could you point me to where it was declared void, perhaps?

From what I understood, Drow SR was actually a -counter-curse given by Lloth to her new dominion. After the Seldarine damned them, Lloth "blessed" them, so to speak.

This, however, could be the IC explanation of it. And it's just as logical that Lloth would eventually slip this blessing of sorts away from them if a drow spent too long on the enemy's land, the surface.

The faerzress as I knew it was another explanation. That's the one I personally adhere to, OoCly at least. The unfortunate thing is that faerzress is hardly explained in depth in any books or lore I've come across. Pretty much everyone knows it's -there-, but it's hard to tell exactly what it does, other than prevent teleportation-type invasion.

But to get back to the OP, no, Drow aren't really "just elves turned evil", unless you're describing them in 4e terminology. :lol:

Subraces are there to represent individual characteristics within a overall race. Thus, the elves that have lived in the forrest fot ages (Wood Elves), are a little bit stronger, due to their wild evironment (+2 STR). But because of this environment of survival, they're a little less refined (-2 INT).

That's just an example. A subrace usually is there to show the differentce in upbringing, genetics, or environment. Since the drow have lived in UD for eons, that's just one of their racial characteristics from living in a high-magic environment. Not sure if it's only in FR, but that's the jist of it. So, no one will fault you IC for calling drow "just elves turned evil", but in lore & Realms history, it's a lot deeper. :wink:

Gers wrote:

Honestly, I'm not sure, Dahlya... I do know though, that Dark Elves (surface drow) have like 11 SR, but it doesn't increase. And the destruction of drow-crafted items by sunlight was negated after events in the some of Elaine Cunningham's novels. I can't recall the name of the trilogy off the top of my head, but it was the one with Liriel Baenre and Feodor. I've just always treated things as being, on Amia, as occuring after that series, given we've no script to destroy drow stuff on the surface. Could you point me to where it was declared void, perhaps?

Starlight and Shadows is the name you want. I took the "voidness" from there, too.

And the taint, it's on the... third book of TLPS. I would need to read it again, though, to quote you exactly where.

All Drow power stems from the Faerzress which is basically ignored to the point of nullifying past 2.0, though it doesn't speciifically say that. It was also tied in to why Drow items break in the sunlight.

The latter was changed for mechanical reasons: WotC was finding out that DMs and players were ignoring the underdark as a campaign setting, because characters couldn't bring any permanent rewards out of the underdark: Any fun items they found dissolved when they went back to the surface, essentially robbing them of loot and wealth. So Drow items and Adamantium in general no longer dissolve in sunlight.

I discovered the evil powers of the sun the first time I played through Baldurs Gate II and found my +4/5 full plates disintegrating after kicking drow bums and getting out of the UD to be verbally harrased by grumpy elves. I was sad. But then I discovered I now had the parts needed for Vorpal Sword, The Equalizer and Crom Fayer, and was happy again.

Point being; I like that flavour, and think it should be implemented again. It made the UD interesting, and not just another dungeon. Besides, getting out alive should be reward enough.

QPR wrote:

Point being; I like that flavour, and think it should be implemented again. It made the UD interesting, and not just another dungeon. Besides, getting out alive should be reward enough.

But that's generally not what you go down there for.An adventure that is robbed of reward generally leaves players feeling cheated.

Yurell wrote:

QPR wrote:

Point being; I like that flavour, and think it should be implemented again. It made the UD interesting, and not just another dungeon. Besides, getting out alive should be reward enough.

But that's generally not what you go down there for.An adventure that is robbed of reward generally leaves players feeling cheated.

Yups, and that was the cruz of why it was "Default" changed. nothing stops a DM from houseruling in his own campaign.

None of this really explains why Drow have SR during 3.5

Lloth countercurse or Seldarine curse - one of the two, methinks.

Yurell wrote:

Lloth countercurse or Seldarine curse - one of the two, methinks.

The Lloth one sounds more likely. Can't imagine the Seldarine giving something as useful as Spell Resistence.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Lloth countercurse or Seldarine curse - one of the two, methinks.

The Lloth one sounds more likely. Can't imagine the Seldarine giving something as useful as Spell Resistence.

Elven High Magic does have a tendency to rooster-up when it tries anything ambitious. The Sunering is a good example of that, and the fact that every dark elf, not just Ilythiiri, were smacked by the spell that turned them to drow is another.

Although admittedly the Lloth explanation does sound likely, but if a god can just do that to her followers, why doesn't every god?

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Lloth countercurse or Seldarine curse - one of the two, methinks.

The Lloth one sounds more likely. Can't imagine the Seldarine giving something as useful as Spell Resistence.

Elven High Magic does have a tendency to rooster-up when it tries anything ambitious. The Sunering is a good example of that, and the fact that every dark elf, not just Ilythiiri, were smacked by the spell that turned them to drow is another.

Although admittedly the Lloth explanation does sound likely, but if a god can just do that to her followers, why doesn't every god?

Could depend. Lloth was a goddesss before she fell. Not sure if she fell after or before the Dark Elves fell. If she fell before, then that may explain it, as when she was cast down, didn't she become a demon or types? Rather then a god. In which case it makes sense, as demons can do some things gods cannot. That may be one of them, and simply have left her without power.

Bah, real answer. WOTC is a confusing bitch who deserves a good slap for never coming up with decent answers.

It's simple: even Magic doesn't like Drow.

Dev Disco wrote:

It's simple: even Magic doesn't like Drow.

Ah, that gave me a good laugh.

We aim to please!

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bah, real answer. WOTC is a confusing bitch who deserves a good slap for never coming up with decent answers.

Alternative - they retconned history to suit gameplay for the players, and never thought that someone would actually care about why the drow have SR, and just accept it.

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bah, real answer. WOTC is a confusing bitch who deserves a good slap for never coming up with decent answers.

Alternative - they retconned history to suit gameplay for the players, and never thought that someone would actually care about why the drow have SR, and just accept it.

I like my answer. Means I get to slap someone.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Bah, real answer. WOTC is a confusing bitch who deserves a good slap for never coming up with decent answers.

Alternative - they retconned history to suit gameplay for the players, and never thought that someone would actually care about why the drow have SR, and just accept it.

I like my answer. Means I get to slap someone.

Highly tehcnically speaking, I believe Faerzsress still exists in 3.5, as Iron is always fond of telling me. But it's never touched on much at all past 2.0, to the point where it's pretty much nonexistent.

Every Underdark race is stunted physically in some way. Duergar are wiry, bald oompa loompas with lean muscles, svirfs are smaller then their rock gnome cousins, orogs are shorter then their surface orc equivalents and Drow are shorter then their surface cousins as well.

It comes with the harsh environment: the barbarian effect. It breeds tougher races (survival of the fittest and all that) with some side effects. Funilly enough though, most Underdark creatures are psionic based so the Drow and Svirf SR does little to help them in their own environment.

*shakes fist* Damanable Drow!

I vote for the Lloth school of reasoning on this one.

On a futher notice, I want to make a drow, anyone Got a Drow and wants to teach the ways? My lore is crap but It sounds like fun!

GreatPigeon wrote:

*shakes fist* Damanable Drow!

I vote for the Lloth school of reasoning on this one.

On a futher notice, I want to make a drow, anyone Got a Drow and wants to teach the ways? My lore is crap but It sounds like fun!

Just make one. There's usually a drow party going, and you can always ask questions - we're a friendly bunch.

If you're male, just please remember to bow and call females 'jabbress'

Ya Id have to be a male Yurrel, I dont think I can rp a woman well. Yall are just well women *shivers*

Orogs are better then Drow. They're bigger and you get the Drow's attention quicker then the Yath'tallar herself.

Galenson wrote:

Orogs are better then Drow. They're bigger and you get the Drow's attention quicker then the Yath'tallar herself.

Half the Yath'tallaren were just assassinated

Even better. As an orog you have no competition for attention in merry old Ultrinnan, you'll be a star.

*is confused* Orogs become slaves often I thought?

GreatPigeon wrote:

*is confused* Orogs become slaves often I thought?

He's encouraging you to make something not drow ... all D races are allowed in Ultri, but you are inferior to every drow.

Last edited by Galenson on Sat, Jun 20 2009, 15:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Orogs are only slaves to the Mind Flayers pidgeon, you're thinking of the Thayan Neo-Orogs which are a different race. The Drow understand that Orogs can craft metal far better then they can and are more likely to trade with them then attack.

As always, I criticise the inbreeding of Ultrinnan society for being so inbred and Xenophobic. The general interpretation I get from Underdark races is that they think less of their own kind then they do of others which is in the complete reverse here.

Wow! Thank you all for your responses and help in this, it helps me understand a bit more.

Galenson wrote:

Orogs are only slaves to the Mind Flayers pidgeon, you're thinking of the Thayan Neo-Orogs which are a different race. The Drow understand that Orogs can craft metal far better then they can and are more likely to trade with them then attack.

True and not true, I do not have any idea about these neo-Orogs, but DRow are great smiths and even miners, yes that is right miners. However there are better miners. Drow are very good craftsmen. However I shall use drow of the underdark, the better second edition one explain for me.

Drow of the Underdark, second edition wrote:

Dark elves are more a race of skilled dilettantes and overseers than (to use a human term) “handymen.”

That is IMO the best way to sum up how drow are, they have the skills and the know how to do stuff, and it goes on to explain that drow have great water works and sculptures just to name two things. Drow are also great at able of finding and identfying gems. They love beauty after all.

Drow of the Underdark, second edition wrote:

A drow finding a gemstone vein can judge as well as any dwarven or svirfneblin miner what direction and how far the vein is likely to travel—and the likely amount and quality of its contents

Galenson wrote:

As always, I criticise the inbreeding of Ultrinnan society for being so inbred and Xenophobic. The general interpretation I get from Underdark races is that they think less of their own kind then they do of others which is in the complete reverse here.

Not quite true, Drow are proud and xenophobic race. They are scheming and trust is little but what you can use to better yourself. The drow think of themselves as better then every other race. They view non drow as lesser races. However drow are a race that doesn't value trust, and views other drow as more dangerous and deadlier then other races for the most part, there are exceptions.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Could depend. Lloth was a goddesss before she fell. Not sure if she fell after or before the Dark Elves fell. If she fell before, then that may explain it, as when she was cast down, didn't she become a demon or types? Rather then a god. In which case it makes sense, as demons can do some things gods cannot. That may be one of them, and simply have left her without power.

Araushnee's fall was both prior and parallel to the Descent: events on the Prime reflected the divine drama, but time is different in the heavens than on Toril. Lolth existed before the Descent to corrupt the nobles of Ilythiir. Like the Sundering, the her fall reached back and forth in time in mystical ways!

I'd just attribute it to the Faerzress and other odd things of the Underdark. I don't know where the idea that Faerzress is ignored in 3e comes from, because there's just as much lore on it in Underdark as there is on Wild Magic Zones or High Magic in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. And there wasn't much more lore on it in previous editions, either. I think it's something someone once said on Amia forums in the past, and it's taken a life of its own since then. Lots of local rumors around.

The Underdark is a strange and hostile place. Who knows how it can affect its denizens? Svirfneblin have the same SR, and Duergar are capable of turning invisible or transforming into giants, so I wouldn't say Lolth is responsible for the Drow's talents. It's just that the darkness, fungi and radiation breed monstrous freaks!

and sun elves are like drow in one aspect: they also think that all other races are lesser...

funny, isn't it?

I think to a certain extent almost every race believes in their own superiority over others...just some are more extreme, and it varies between individuals.

Elves overall are a haughty proud race. That's one of the few things that all elves have in common. :lol:

Ironically enough, humans and maybe halflings seem to the the only races that don't harbor any focused feelings of superiority in general. Dragons, Elves, gnomes, goblinkin, demons, dwarves, Illythid, Orcs, and Reptilians all harbor some feelings of superiority I think.

dark immolation: that is not quite true, ask the people of Sembia, Thay, Westgate, heck even Cormyr and the western heartlands if they think they are better then orcs, goblins, trolls and so on. I bet they would say yes. Also how many humans want equal rights for their pets? Should a horse be a mayor of a small village? no, they are treated as lessers as pets.

but almost all races have some superiority feelings.

herkles wrote:

Should a horse be a mayor of a small village?

Maybe if a druid cast Awaken on it...

IronAngel wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Duergar are capable of turning invisible or transforming into giants,

Say what? I never saw this? Disco! If we have to have one inherent power get rid of invisability, it's practically useless, give us Duergar giant transforming abilities! Rawr! I be smashin'! I be crashin'!

TeroSNS wrote:

and sun elves are like drow in one aspect: they also think that all other races are lesser...

funny, isn't it?

Fourth and Fifth Crown Wars deals with both the elven races with sticks up their collective arses.

interesting sidenote, drow SR wasnt always a good thing, as positive spells used to be affected by it as well. Cleric casting heal on your 10hp drow fighter, wait, heal got eaten by your SR? want, you are dead? oh well, moving on.

now, however, as far as i know SR only affects hostile spells.

Zanthair wrote:

interesting sidenote, drow SR wasnt always a good thing, as positive spells used to be affected by it as well. Cleric casting heal on your 10hp drow fighter, wait, heal got eaten by your SR? want, you are dead? oh well, moving on.

now, however, as far as i know SR only affects hostile spells.

SR affects all spells, you can just choose whether or not to voluntarily lower your R.

And to make thing simplier are positibve spells automatically accepted.

Which is not that good though *cough* Sd's and people casting light on them when they have SR items. *cough*

HellScourge wrote:

And to make thing simplier are positibve spells automatically accepted.

Which is not that good though *cough* Sd's and people casting light on them when they have SR items. *cough*

Well, it's a standard action to lower it, and giving people the ability 'lower resistance' would probably have been a waste of time - they didn't really have PvP in mind when they made the system.

how hard is it to believe drow have spell resistance? really? .....there is an ancient human mage who sleeps with the goddess of magic and can cast uber powerful spells

Drow and Spell Resistance

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