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Dev Disco
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 Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 8:17 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Yurell wrote: Dev Disco wrote: xordae wrote: If Herbalist can make heal potions, doesn't that exactly do the thing you didn't want jobs to do, give the player an edge? I'd say either make it costly enough to do that you only save 100 GP or so compared to store-buying them, or increase the usefulness of other jobs. Removing it from the stores will only empower the Herbalist even more. I didn't want to keep two herbalist things running parallel, and I didn't just want to ditch the original system either. So, I integrated the old system in the new one. Blame the original system for producing heal pots, I am not going to change 99 jobs because one doesn't fit the plan. I say this as someone that used to make heals ... why didn't you just simply remove the ability to make heal potions? I kinda learned not to remove stuff the hard way. It's amazing how long the toes of a lot of people are and how incredibly important the most stupid little details are for individual player's roleplay. So, if possible I keep things as they are because those anal retentive complaints annoy the poop out of me and I rather stay in a good mood.
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Lascivar
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 8:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Dev Disco wrote: I kinda learned not to remove stuff the hard way. It's amazing how long the toes of a lot of people are and how incredibly important the most stupid little details are for individual player's roleplay. So, if possible I keep things as they are because those anal retentive complaints annoy the poop out of me and I rather stay in a good mood.
*Throws some chicken feed to cheer Disco up.* People enjoy complaining.
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Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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Selmak
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 8:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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You can't get rid of heal potions because they're practically the only thing at the high end of healing supplies. The low-end Cure potions aren't very impressive. In my opinion, and I've said it enough times, you need something in between that does more healing than the bog standard Bioware potions but, if you're a particularly hardened warrior with lots of hitpoints, won't necessarily heal you 100%.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 8:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Put it to a general vote, that way people can blame the general community at large, and you can just forward angry mails on to "Here are the people that voted - spam them".
Edit: That was at Disco
Also, I'm only suggesting removing it from being craftable via the job system.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 8:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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As long as they're available in shops, relatively cheap, there's no reason to remove them from the Herbalist's crafting options. It does not give Herbalists a real edge, because anyone will survive without them and probably get their potions easier, but those who want to support the player economy will get to do that. Everybody wins.
I seriously doubt many people are going to compromise their character concept and limit their number of availble jobs by taking lots of Herbalists just to get something you can already buy in stacks of 10, at Waukeen's temple no less.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 8:52 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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I reached Iron's conclusion a while ago, and I think I'll settle for doing nothing at all.
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 9:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Selvec Darkon wrote: As it would nerf the job system massively, and everyone would simply master in Herbalist.
You need alchemist components to craft the heal pot. You'll need to take 3 herbalist and 2 alchemist. I seriously doubt heal chuggers have the patience to gather resources and make heal pots anyway. It would still be more efficient to just spam healkits. _________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 9:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: Selvec Darkon wrote: As it would nerf the job system massively, and everyone would simply master in Herbalist. You need alchemist components to craft the heal pot. You'll need to take 3 herbalist and 2 alchemist. I seriously doubt heal chuggers have the patience to gather resources and make heal pots anyway. It would still be more efficient to just spam healkits. Sure, and that works fine while Heals are avaliable in shops. However, if you take the pot's from the shops, then people will spam those ranks of Herbalist and Alchemist. You'd be surprised what people will go through. The old system was tedious, yet provided free heal pot's, and the people who knew the method, and could benefit, did spam it.
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Ts_
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 10:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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I don't remember the exact process and can't be bothered to check it right now ... But the mentioned Herbalist 3 / Alchemist 2 probably spends about 10 minutes gathering resources per Heal potion due to the many chances for failures in the process ... It's not exactly an efficient alternative to buying things. (I'm aware that you can make the first heal pot quicker than this, but this is something like the expected time if you were trying to make many of them. Maybe it's only 8 minutes or something, I dunno.)
So ... the job system does not give an edge to these people, and these people are just barely able to support the heal pot demand of a single meleer with continuous herb farming.
I would call that balanced in the sense that the job system does what it's supposed to do: Add nothing of value, but something to do.
Regards, Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 10:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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It takes 4 ingredients, 3 professions (herbalist, orcharder, alchemist - "HoA" would take on a completely new meaning  ) and 8 steps to make them. With one level each in H & A I would make my own and that's about it. And spend an hour running back and forth between grape vines with everybody else while hoping to score more than 1 in 10. _________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Gunz
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 11:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Kjetta wrote: I'm certainly in favor of removing the Fountains of Purification though.
That I actually do agree with. I've always hated Fountains of Purification... Deeply.... Very deeply... Extremely, very deeply.... and so on...
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 12:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Kjetta wrote: I'm certainly in favor of removing the Fountains of Purification though. That I actually do agree with. I've always hated Fountains of Purification... Deeply.... Very deeply... Extremely, very deeply.... and so on... I'd go with that, at least. _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 12:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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IC explanation? They ran out of power.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 12:30 PM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Let's see how many posts it takes before somebody opposes that suggestion...
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StandingBehindYou
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 12:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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Dev Disco wrote: Let's see how many posts it takes before somebody opposes that suggestion...
Let's make it one post!
One of the things that sets Amia apart is its emphasis on playability. Things don't happen just because "it's in lore," with no concession whatsoever to the idea that this is a server that people play on.
The idea of those fountains existing is absurd. It's even more absurd that people can respawn after death, but I wouldn't remove that either. No one is forcing you to use those fountains if they bother you, and for some people they are a much-appreciated convenience.
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fountains dont solve anything that a full rest doesnt solve. And if that's the case, the only reason to have them is so that you can port out of wherever you are, fully buffed, heal yourself at no cost and without loss of spells/potions/scrolls/kits, and then port back into the fray. Which is... seriously tacky. At least porting into the Temple to buy potions or raise scrolls I can... barely... accept.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Xaviera wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fountains dont solve anything that a full rest doesnt solve. And if that's the case, the only reason to have them is so that you can port out of wherever you are, fully buffed, heal yourself at no cost and without loss of spells/potions/scrolls/kits, and then port back into the fray. Which is... seriously tacky. At least porting into the Temple to buy potions or raise scrolls I can... barely... accept.
If you are a mage, you won't have your spells replenished with the fountains.
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Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Even less reason to use them instead of a rest, then. Except that they're totally free.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Ts_
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Xaviera wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fountains dont solve anything that a full rest doesnt solve.
Some effects are not undone by resting. The one (and maybe only) example I know is the curse from the spell Bestow Curse (-2 to all abilities).
And porting back and restocking/resting/buffing is not a problem with the fountains, but with the portal system. Instead of the fountains, we would have (PC or NPC) clerics waiting at the incoming gate to cast Greater Restoration for 1-5k gold.
Regards, Ts
Points down: Haha, you're too old for this, Yurell!
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Last edited by Ts_ on Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:43 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Xaviera wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fountains dont solve anything that a full rest doesnt solve. And if that's the case, the only reason to have them is so that you can port out of wherever you are, fully buffed, heal yourself at no cost and without loss of spells/potions/scrolls/kits, and then port back into the fray. Which is... seriously tacky. At least porting into the Temple to buy potions or raise scrolls I can... barely... accept.
Resting doesn't remove curses (such as from the minotaurs).
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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I do not want the Healing Fountains removed, but I suggested a long time ago that the PC pay for each heal.
Removing them wouldn't make this angry gorilla cry.
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Dervish
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 14:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Location: on the couch (-6 GMT)
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Hey why not have a donation plate next to the fountain, and make it so that the amount heal is related to the donation. Make it less expensive than a heal potion, but not free.
I was going to take HOA for my druid, it makes good IC sense. But now that I hear it takes so much effort to make one heal potion, I wonder how often I'll bother. I guess it's worth trying at any rate, once I find all the instructors.
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Teufel Eldritch
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 15:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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I really don't have that much of a problem creating heal pots/kits with the new system. Sure you may have to go here then there & then over there & back over that way to get all the stuff but it's fun to do that, at least for me. The trick to crafting is to have -at least- 2 ranks & to grab a lot of ingredients.
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Charles1810
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Hubbard, Ohio
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I'm in favor of removal as well as long as the arena locations remain a free rest zone so that does not destroy a lot of different rps.
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colanah
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 16:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: Lost In Thought
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The OP was about healing kits which would be easier to make than healing potions but both jobs would require a PC to be an orcharder, farmer, alchemist and herbalist.
For the ones advocating the removal of healing kits and healing potions, take a look at the job system matrix and actually look at the steps needed to make a healing potion or a healing kit. My PC will spend hours and will barely come up with 10 of them since she sacrificed Master Herbalist for Journeyman in order to just carry the ingredients as a trader.
*points down* This is precisely the point.
Dramatic_Prince wrote: Seriously speaking, the formula for the heal pot has so many steps, I doubt anyone will even be able to mass produce it. It's simply too much hassle right now.
Removal of heal pots from the stores will only result in a void that cannot be filled. Making heal pots regular drops might fill the void a little. The rampant fear about the job system replacing it however is semi valid but only if someone made a PC specifically for -only- doing this kind of job. No RPing, no hunting. just Jobing. *points down*Selvec Darkon wrote: Well, considering the job system was NEVER meant to provide any advantage to combat, I'd be more inclinded to vote to have heals removed from the herbalists list of craftable items.
As it stands, I'm more for never having them removed from stores. As it would nerf the job system massively, and everyone would simply master in Herbalist. This would not happen and I can say why precisely but someone else said it already. *points downwards*Delarwyn wrote: I agree with Prescia. I have a herbalist. I have to contact two other professionals to offer me things I need. I have to wait 2 min cool down to collect enough plants for my own needs. I am not even selling healing potions, imagine to provide to the entire server?
Before the salandra heal pots, were the mix of three ingredients, all easy to collect, all limited only by the number of plants. I could make 30 heal pots and be happy. I can barely make 10 nowadays. So why the idea of removal now?
Unless the Job system was altered to put back most to all of the original resources...it's just not going to happen or be feasible.
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P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?"
*dice roll for chart*
GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship."
P1 "...so new character you say?"
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Fri, Jun 19 2009, 21:33 PM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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As I said: I'll do nothing!
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Gunz
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Posted: Sat, Jun 20 2009, 2:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Yurell wrote: Xaviera wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fountains dont solve anything that a full rest doesnt solve. And if that's the case, the only reason to have them is so that you can port out of wherever you are, fully buffed, heal yourself at no cost and without loss of spells/potions/scrolls/kits, and then port back into the fray. Which is... seriously tacky. At least porting into the Temple to buy potions or raise scrolls I can... barely... accept. Resting doesn't remove curses (such as from the minotaurs). Resting doesn't remove a lot of things, curses, level drains, poison, disease, etc. etc.
I still say to hell with the fountains.
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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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