AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Split from the accouncement --meant for questions--

In all the years I've been here, in spite of having, Rras who will fight at the drop of a hat, highly irritating elf in Raven, and a Wizard who tends to say what is on his mind without thought to what comes from it, in the years I've been here.. I can still count on one hand the amount of twunty PvP experiences I've had.

Not that I even remembered most of them till I actually sat back and thought about it. If someone breaks the rules, I SS/report it to a DM and go on my way and thats all the mind I pay. I'm here for fun, douchebaggery isn't fun, so I don't fixate on it.

LD_GoDFiST wrote:

It's been sometime since I've played on Amia. I'm considering coming back, but i think alot of the problem is influenced by the pvp system used by the module.

There's No penalty practically what-so-ever. I think it provokes players to think if they lose in a pvp scenario well, no bigg. I'll just re spawn in 5 mins or so. Idk what provoked the invention of this pvp system either. Sorry, but this is MY opinion, this sys. sucks.

I hate to break it to people, but death has tolls and life has conflict. As does any good rp. I just think a decent pvp death penalty needs to be implemented. I'm not trying to broadcast a rant of negativity here guys, or criticize the DMs abilities, but THAT"S WHAT DMS ARE HERE FOR...

Plots, Stability, and of course enforcement.

Ending this short...If pvp is out of hand just read logs and start banning. I think if it happens more often and a decent xp/gold penalty is put in place for pvp deaths players would become more weary of random smashing.

Most of all though players just need to grow more mature and keep anthers fun factor in mind.

Just my cents

I have to agree with you on this one. Although I'd go further and say that there were no system regarding PvP on this server in the first place. You fight you loose (IF you loose), you die and than... BAM! your alive and lively again! No penalties, to prevent players from PvP, to encourage them to find another way of resolving a conflict that may potentially end in blood shed. There are no problems that have no more than one solution for them.

Now I understand that this is a made up fantasy world I am speaking. With it's own rules and laws, but even a fantasy world must bare some connections to reality to prevent itself from becoming grotesque and absurd.

This includes death. PvP death that occurs outside the Arena. I say that both sides of PvP should be somehow be affected by the way the fight end. Whereas your a looser or the winner. The latter should gain some minor rewards.
Like once upon a time I saw a nifty little thing in an action server lost somewhere in the dark abyss of Gamespy. Every time a player would kill another he'd get a misc. item with the losers name on it, call it a trophy of a kind. It was scripted to disappear if used, so you wouldn't have to tag along if you didn't want it any more. A nice thing to have, if I may say so myself.
As for the loosing side of a fight some XP/gold penalty would be in place, based on his level and the opponents level.

Well that's my two cents on this matter. It'd really be nice to see the trophy thing here on Amia.

Been a fan of ouchier death for a long time but now when looking back I say it wouldn't change Amia for the better. If you think coming back to Amia invokes a lot of problems for you, think twice. Not meant deprecatory, just saves you headaches.

I am pretty indifferent to PvP, I suppose, because I never really get involved in it playerside. No one ever has a need to PvP my PC, and my PC never really has a need to PvP anyone else. I could count the number of times I've set PvP on one hand, and all but one incident were just for show, like a bitchslap fest at an Arena Night in Old Cordor.

The only unexpected, totally legitimate PvP encounter I've ever been in was absolutely amazing, and I love to tell the story. A dude came up to my PC, began a friendly conversation, asking into the specifics of my work in various fields, etc., the kind of conversation that is completely benign. In fact, I absolutely trusted the guy OOC'ly even and thought he was really awesome. He says, "Well, it was a pleasure talking with you," and holds out his hand for a shake.

I emote that I reach out and give him a hearty shake.

Tell: "Permission to PvP?"

Me: "Oh. Uh, sure!"

Death Touch. Failed Fort Save on Touch Attack. Instant Death. Followed by a terrifying interrogation scene in the courtyard of the old Mystra's Tower that I believe only Disco was witness to. Sent chills down my spine and not only did I truly feel challenged, I was actually afraid! Unfortunately this player is no longer around Amia, I don't think, so that is sad.

Regardless, I tell this story because PvP worked more or less then like it does now in terms of how deadly or dangerous it is, and the scenario was absolutely perfect RP.

Dwagin wrote:

Not that I even remembered most of them till I actually sat back and thought about it. If someone breaks the rules, I SS/report it to a DM and go on my way and thats all the mind I pay. I'm here for fun, douchebaggery isn't fun, so I don't fixate on it.

And those few douchebags will become a whole lot more annoying when you start losing gold and xp over it.

Be glad that PvP isn't squeezed into one map on the entire server, and that there aren't arbitrary ranks and things which need advancing via PvP, which would inevitably mean that players find the easiest way to advance themselves is to gank lots of noobs, especially near the starting areas.

Unless it helps some sort of storyline, PvP is basically a pissing contest, IMO.

Two things.

In my experience people do everything they possibly can, including, but not limited to, logging off, to avoid PvP.

Highwayman: "Pay me 10gp or I will kill you!"
Victim: "Umm... No." *Victim has left the server*

This is the problem to me. There are virtually no penalties for PvP and yet people do everything they can to avoid it until they're lvl 30 and kitted out with Epic loot and unlikely to lose.

PvP penalties get an enormous NO from me, for a number of reasons.

1. See Above. People avoid PvP like the plague as it is. Regardless of what some people like to believe, PvP is an essential part of something like Amia. This isn't a world of Carebears, it's a world of conflict with religions dedicated to murder and war. We should be finding ways to encourage RP, not ways to limit it, but that's what PvP penalties will do - limit RP.

2. There are enough people that believe PvP to be a legitimate excuse to overtake a party and/or take over an area when they win. PvP penalties that reduce the usefulness of a PC for 30 minutes (I think that's the timeframe mentioned earlier in this thread) just means that a party has no choice but to yield to the aggressors because they're no longer capable of engaging in PvM.

2. The other night I was PvP'd, the person refused to raise me and then immediately killed me again when I was auto-raised telling me that I had to find an IC way to be raised. I was on my way to do something in the last 10 minutes I had to play on the server for 3-4 days and was given no choice but to log off. Should such a person get some sort of reward for killing me twice? I could have run past saying "//no time for RP" and finished what I had to do, but I chose the RP, knowing full well I would probably get killed, should I be punished for choosing the RP option over the OOC one? If there were PvP penalties in place I absolutely would have ignored that person's RP and went about my business.

3. I have had multiple characters killed in the Quagmires and Valley of the Archnid by Drow on the grounds I was killing spiders. In every case but one my party was there trying to level up and were killed by Epic Drow. Of those cases only one resulted in the Drow demanding we leave the area (and got smacked by a DM for it), the rest of the time they let us continue what we were doing. Had we been given some sort of Ability penalty we would have been prevented from carrying on - a party of mid-levels being prevented from doing something at the whim of some Epics is not on.

4. I once started a character on another server that had multiple death penalties. My level 1 Wizard with 5HP was killed by the usual Rats in the Tavern Basement. When I found my way out of the Fugue Plane I was hit with the penalties - Loss of aone level (which meant losing the 25xp I had), 75% gold loss (I only had 10gp anyway), -4 to all stats, -8 AC, 50% ASF. These effects were permanent until I could pay for a Restoration at the local Temple... which cost 2000gp. Needless to say I never went back to that server. The penalties for PvP death were exactly the same as for PvM... There's also servers out there with PvP permadeath.

There are simply too many ways that arsehats can grief people when PvP penalties are put in. PvP penalties would result in an increase of players making characters designed for PvP pwnage just so they don't get killed all the time by the arsehats. Preventing the kind of RP that comes from PvP situations, by virtue of penalising people for losing, is a big step in the wrong direction.

Yossarin wrote:

I am pretty indifferent to PvP, I suppose, because I never really get involved in it playerside. No one ever has a need to PvP my PC, and my PC never really has a need to PvP anyone else. I could count the number of times I've set PvP on one hand, and all but one incident were just for show, like a bitchslap fest at an Arena Night in Old Cordor.

The only unexpected, totally legitimate PvP encounter I've ever been in was absolutely amazing, and I love to tell the story. A dude came up to my PC, began a friendly conversation, asking into the specifics of my work in various fields, etc., the kind of conversation that is completely benign. In fact, I absolutely trusted the guy OOC'ly even and thought he was really awesome. He says, "Well, it was a pleasure talking with you," and holds out his hand for a shake.

I emote that I reach out and give him a hearty shake.

Tell: "Permission to PvP?"

Me: "Oh. Uh, sure!"

Death Touch. Failed Fort Save on Touch Attack. Instant Death. Followed by a terrifying interrogation scene in the courtyard of the old Mystra's Tower that I believe only Disco was witness to. Sent chills down my spine and not only did I truly feel challenged, I was actually afraid! Unfortunately this player is no longer around Amia, I don't think, so that is sad.

Regardless, I tell this story because PvP worked more or less then like it does now in terms of how deadly or dangerous it is, and the scenario was absolutely perfect RP.

This is an interesting example. You mention OOC trust here and I think this is extremely important in PvP or any RP at all.

To be fair, a palemaster would be hard pressed to pull off the bluffing and persuasion it would take to get a person to shake his hand for a death touch attack. I would even venture to say the character didn't have the nessecary skills so if the RP was to be played 'in reality' you'd have wised up much before.

This is the problem. Many people DON'T want to roll with the punches like you did. They see things going south and suddenly start calling bluff rolls should have been done. They call bad RP or want redos.

I guess players just need to learn some distance from the game to really get into it. You need to roll with the punches and allow for some wiggle room. You'll probably not lose, but you might not win.

That is another thing to remember. You WILL NEVER WIN. You can't beat another player, no matter how AWESOME you RP, no matter how fool proof your plan is. Don't expect to 'win' or come out on top. You can't do it. They can log off, they can deny OOC permission. They can fuss and whine up a storm to the point it stops being a fun game.

It is kind of interesting to see how much RP is trying to figure out how to make sure both players have fun instead of having two different interests butt heads. Because sparks fly on the latter and both people are smiling on the former.

I can only advise for the former.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

2. The other night I was PvP'd, the person refused to raise me and then immediately killed me again when I was auto-raised telling me that I had to find an IC way to be raised. I was on my way to do something in the last 10 minutes I had to play on the server for 3-4 days and was given no choice but to log off. Should such a person get some sort of reward for killing me twice? I could have run past saying "//no time for RP" and finished what I had to do, but I chose the RP, knowing full well I would probably get killed, should I be punished for choosing the RP option over the OOC one? If there were PvP penalties in place I absolutely would have ignored that person's RP and went about my business.

This guy broke the rules and probably would be banned if a DM caught him or you saved screen shots.

That is totally out of line and completely opposite to the server rules. This is arsehattery at its finest.

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2. The other night I was PvP'd, the person refused to raise me and then immediately killed me again when I was auto-raised telling me that I had to find an IC way to be raised. I was on my way to do something in the last 10 minutes I had to play on the server for 3-4 days and was given no choice but to log off. Should such a person get some sort of reward for killing me twice? I could have run past saying "//no time for RP" and finished what I had to do, but I chose the RP, knowing full well I would probably get killed, should I be punished for choosing the RP option over the OOC one? If there were PvP penalties in place I absolutely would have ignored that person's RP and went about my business.

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This guy broke the rules and probably would be banned if a DM caught him or you saved screen shots.

That is totally out of line and completely opposite to the server rules. This is arsehattery at its finest.

Has been infact dealt with by a dm to find that the aggressor was in the right.

Remember everyone. IC ACTIONS HAVE IC CONSIQUENCES.

IF your gonna act all high and might and try fight someone and you die. You can just demand a raise and run off like nothing has happened at all.
Also for the record abusing people OOC is also a big no no.
If you had ignored said person outright he has the rules on his side to attack. If you dont give someone the approiate time to react RPly you may stop someone trying to flee.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

In my experience people do everything they possibly can, including, but not limited to, logging off, to avoid PvP.

That, my friends, is the worst example of arsehatting I've ever run across. It's the equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home". Like has been said before IC actions have IC consequences.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some sort of system implemented where there are negative consequences to losing in PvP. The server rules already state that a player is required to give another player an IC way out of PvP. If Player A wants to grief Player B, he's going to do it whether there are penalties involved or not. But, if you grief someone by instigating PvP with no way out, you're already breaking rules. Those that would abuse such a system are probably not the people that are really desired on Amia in the first place and deserved to get the boot.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

3. I have had multiple characters killed in the Quagmires and Valley of the Archnid by Drow on the grounds I was killing spiders. In every case but one my party was there trying to level up and were killed by Epic Drow. Of those cases only one resulted in the Drow demanding we leave the area (and got smacked by a DM for it), the rest of the time they let us continue what we were doing. Had we been given some sort of Ability penalty we would have been prevented from carrying on - a party of mid-levels being prevented from doing something at the whim of some Epics is not on.

So, does that mean that my drow should be able to trapese through Nexus Falls doing as she may (looking for an elf to snag and drag back for a sacrifice, probably) and be left to her own devices because stopping her and asking her to leave is interrupting her RP?

If a Lolthite sees someone killing a spider, they're not gonna take it to well. It's not different from someone violating any other deity's dogma in front of a follower of that specific diety... the only thing is that there are spiders all throughout the module. It's RP. It's what we're here for. Random interaction with others is part of what makes the game so much fun. If you just want to run around and level, my advice would be to play the single player.

ainjyll wrote:

Sokar Rostau wrote:

3. I have had multiple characters killed in the Quagmires and Valley of the Archnid by Drow on the grounds I was killing spiders. In every case but one my party was there trying to level up and were killed by Epic Drow. Of those cases only one resulted in the Drow demanding we leave the area (and got smacked by a DM for it), the rest of the time they let us continue what we were doing. Had we been given some sort of Ability penalty we would have been prevented from carrying on - a party of mid-levels being prevented from doing something at the whim of some Epics is not on.

So, does that mean that my drow should be able to trapese through Nexus Falls doing as she may (looking for an elf to snag and drag back for a sacrifice, probably) and be left to her own devices because stopping her and asking her to leave is interrupting her RP?

If a Lolthite sees someone killing a spider, they're not gonna take it to well. It's not different from someone violating any other deity's dogma in front of a follower of that specific diety... the only thing is that there are spiders all throughout the module. It's RP. It's what we're here for. Random interaction with others is part of what makes the game so much fun. If you just want to run around and level, my advice would be to play the single player.

I believe he means that the killing is reasonable, but if you impose death penalties there'd be no way for them to continue hunting after you've left - meaning that you'd have essentially kicked them out of the hunting grounds (as opposed to killing them for hurting the spiders and ICly leaving their bodies to rot).

That's how I understood it, anyway.

I once was told that someone who started PvP, without any RP at all, he just ran up in GS and Terror Rage, hostiled right next to a certain person, feared them and killed them.

The same person later tried that trick again, on the same Victim, this time failed to fear him. The victim was getting the better of him, so he logged out, thrity seconds later logs back in GS', attack, GS, logout, login, attack, over and over.

This was ages ago, and not going to name anyone who was involved.

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It is kind of interesting to see how much RP is trying to figure out how to make sure both players have fun instead of having two different interests butt heads. Because sparks fly on the latter and both people are smiling on the former.

Gods, RP'ing one of the most notoriously smart evil characters on the server for years, I wish this was the case.

What's worse is when one of those two different interests take IG dislikes or rivalries and pull it into the OOC. I'm just like.. "gaaah" , keep the IG / OOC separate!

We are all players here people. Just because my character is a evil, insane Necromancer who's responsible for many many bad things doesn't mean I'm that way in real life.

On the same coin, just because your PC is a holier than thou (insert good god here), I'm not going to assume your a holy-roller in RL.

It's simple :

1.) Play nice.
2.) Keep IG / OOC separate.
3.) Goto #1

If only.

Regards,

Sokar Rostau wrote:

In my experience people do everything they possibly can, including, but not limited to, logging off, to avoid PvP.

Highwayman: "Pay me 10gp or I will kill you!"
Victim: "Umm... No." *Victim has left the server*

Ironically, avoiding PvP is a lot easier if you curse the day and then pay those 10gp ...

What irks me (=someone who tries to avoid PvP) is that some people are very PvP-happy. They just walk up to you, start threatening you etc. So far it could be all IC, but sometimes it just feels like they want to get done with the required amount of RP and get to the mechanics of beating the crap out of someone. I'm not sure if I should feel sorry for them when my character pushes towards a non-violent ending ... (My characters aren't LG-stupid and value their lives.)

Regards, Ts

I can count very few pvp incidents that were actually backed by good sensible rp, and most importantly, fun.

Most (all?) of the time, someone putting up a roadblock, highwayman ambushes etc... end up being a sad rp excuse for pvp, for powerbuilds to grief and bully those weaker than them.

I'll just shrug and ignore it, and move on as soon as I am able to. I am very much against wankers getting the power to actually hurt others.

Well, the Order of the Flaming Blade members can certainly tell you how damned impossible PVP-RP on Amia is. An order that basically supports and revolves around PVP-RP, I found that it was almost impossible to engage in a well thought out and orderly PVP-RP.

Reasons start and end with player attitudes. One of the most irritating, which many "oldbie" players are very guilty of, is the random "Oh look, someone engaging in PVP, let me toss a random helball in for no reason". It's very annoying, and generally turns the entire affair into a gigantic ball of mess.

Another is people who tend to threaten, but deny PVP. They run and hide in GS, or they simply log off as stated above. The few PVP-RP events I engaged in as a Tempurian, that were actually enjoyable, involved other orders focused on PVP-RP. Such as Banites, Frey and his undead twits, and a couple of Gargaosians. I haven't ever actually engaged in one kind of enjoyable rp with underdark drow, since a lot that I have encounter are fine with underhanded unfair tactics commited by them, but do the same and the bitch fit rises hugely. Cause remember, you can't get into the impentrable fortress of the super Drow!

If you can't hack PVP-RP, and don't want to deal with it. Do not get involved with groups and characters that are heavily favoured towards PVP-RP. You'll just end up causing problems for everyone.

Selvec,

Send me a tell and let's see what we can't get together.

Regards,

Selvec Darkon wrote:

If you can't hack PVP-RP, and don't want to deal with it. Do not get involved with groups and characters that are heavily favoured towards PVP-RP. You'll just end up causing problems for everyone.

Seconded.

Zante wrote:

Most (all?) of the time, someone putting up a roadblock, highwayman ambushes etc... end up being a sad rp excuse for pvp, for powerbuilds to grief and bully those weaker than them.

Not directed to Zante, I'm sure there are real assholes there that are simply looking to bully others in the guise of these "rp", but equally annoying are people who can't accept defeat. They would call the victor a "//powerbuild" once they get stomped and there goes any sense of RP.

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Selvec,

Send me a tell and let's see what we can't get together.

Regards,

Sent.

Just a note to everyone, I'm not the leader of the Order of the Flaming Blade, nor am I a member any more. If anyone is very interested in trying to get something started with the Order, please direct PM's to davis114, as he is the leader.

Quote:

Well, the Order of the Flaming Blade members can certainly tell you how damned impossible PVP-RP on Amia is. An order that basically supports and revolves around PVP-RP, I found that it was almost impossible to engage in a well thought out and orderly PVP-RP.

Back in the early days of the order we had battle's and they were alot of fun. We also did just Tempurian like things. (Juts a bunch of men standing around trying to be manly)
Very few Amia days come close to how enjoyable those days were.

You may want to pull of your rose tinted glasses the next time you walk down memory lane.

Tacka wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

If you can't hack PVP-RP, and don't want to deal with it. Do not get involved with groups and characters that are heavily favoured towards PVP-RP. You'll just end up causing problems for everyone.

Seconded.

While I disagree with the 'can't hack it part', I agree that one who is not interested in lots of conflict to not play a class that will inevitably run into such, a lot. This includes necromancers, Paladins, clerics, blackguards.

I find that it is easiest to avoid these things(If you so desire) if you stick to classes that have a moral ambivalence towards things. Wizards, Bards, Merchant types.

dwagin, I also like to toss up races on there. There are certain races that are likely to get into fights more often, however you can avoid it. Drow and tieflings are on that list. If one wishes to avoid PvP one may sometimes have to bit the bullet and pay that 10 gp toll so they can avoid PvP.

Selvec wrote:

since a lot that I have encounter are fine with underhanded unfair tactics commited by them, but do the same and the bitch fit rises hugely.

I've seen things like this a few times, mostly done to other people, once or twice happened to myself.

Someone I knew on Amia got into PvP, this was a long time ago now, the opposition kept cheap shotting, spamming HIPS, healing, so the one I know decides to use one heal and a True Strike potion, as soon as he did that, the opposition goes OOC, showing he wasn't too happy he used his own gear to his advantage, but had no problem doing such himself.

Never did get why myself. If you are fine with using a cheap tactic IC, you should really be prepared for others to resort to cheaper tactics also. Can't have the best of both worlds.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Reasons start and end with player attitudes.

Very, very true.

[quote="Selvec Darkon]Another is people who tend to threaten, but deny PVP.[/quote]

This gets me kinda miffed, too. When a character is being super-threatening to mine and when I OOC'ly ask for permission to set to hostile, they say something to the effect of, "No, I don't PvP." Grrr... just grinds my gears! If you're gonna play a jerk of a character who talks smack to people who basically make a living off of killing various things for various reasons, don't be surprised when they want to kill you.

[quote="Selvec Darkon] I haven't ever actually engaged in one kind of enjoyable rp with underdark drow, since a lot that I have encounter are fine with underhanded unfair tactics commited by them, but do the same and the bitch fit rises hugely. Cause remember, you can't get into the impentrable fortress of the super Drow![/quote]

I actually feel really sorry for you because of this. Unfortunately, it seems you've gotten the short end of the PvP-RP stick so far. But, to be fair, it works both ways. Playing almost exclusively drow characters I've had just as much crappy, no-RP PvP as anyone else (think "Oh, look! A lone drow. Kill it!" type RP)... but I've also had some really good RP come from PvP or lead to PvP. It's all in the luck of the draw. You win some you lose some. *insert similar sayings here*

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This gets me kinda miffed, too. When a character is being super-threatening to mine and when I OOC'ly ask for permission to set to hostile, they say something to the effect of, "No, I don't PvP." Grrr... just grinds my gears! If you're gonna play a jerk of a character who talks smack to people who basically make a living off of killing various things for various reasons, don't be surprised when they want to kill you

Remember something that it seems so many people ahve fotgotten.

You dont need PVP permission

He might have been refering to before the rule change, when you needed PvP permission.

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He might have been refering to before the rule change, when you needed PvP permission.

Yeah quite possibly but theres seems to be a few people out there that haven't gotten this message

Nex_addo wrote:

Quote:

He might have been refering to before the rule change, when you needed PvP permission.

Yeah quite possibly but theres seems to be a few people out there that haven't gotten this message

Yup, if someone is overbearing, condescending, insulting and downright rude, feel free to buy them under ten metres of magical death.

Not every argument has to end in violence though. You can be rude and obnoxious to someone who's being rude an obnoxious to you and part ways with no more than a snapped-off "Fine!" from either or both parties.

Or in other words, "I can see that you're trying to goad me into attacking you and although I'd love nothing more than to mash your head against my fist all day, I have more important things to do."

Last edited by Yurell on Tue, Jun 16 2009, 1:20 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Selmak wrote:

Not every argument has to end in violence though. You can be rude and obnoxious to someone who's being rude an obnoxious to you and part ways with no more than a snapped-off "Fine!" from either or both parties.

Or in other words, "I can see that you're trying to goad me into attacking you and although I'd love nothing more than to mash your head against my fist all day, I have more important things to do."

That's why I said "feel free" :wink:

But I think most people just have to put up with 'playing the bigger man' IRL so much they really don't give a damn when they finally have the option to smash some bastard who's badmouthing them ... it is so much more satisfying.

Yurell wrote:

Nex_addo wrote:

Quote:

He might have been refering to before the rule change, when you needed PvP permission.

Yeah quite possibly but theres seems to be a few people out there that haven't gotten this message

Yup, if someone is overbearing, condescending, insulting and downright rude, feel free to buy them under ten metres of magical death.

*Two thumbs up*

PvP is a strange game, the only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess instead?

ainjyll wrote:

Playing almost exclusively drow characters I've had just as much crappy, no-RP PvP as anyone else (think "Oh, look! A lone drow. Kill it!" type RP)... but I've also had some really good RP come from PvP or lead to PvP.

"Oh, look! A lone drow. Kill it!" sounds like great RP!

Anyways, I agree with the OPs premise, that it must suck to lose in PvP. But I think the humiliation of losing already fulfills this purpose, so I see no need to add injury to insult in form of XP/Gold loss.

But the "Just ask a DM to dock a few levels and some gold off you" arguement must die! The aim of harsher penalties is obviously to create suspense.

"An audience experience suspense when they expect something bad to happen and have (or believe they have) a superior perspective on events in the drama's hierarchy of knowledge, yet they are powerless to intervene to prevent it from happening." - Wikipedia, on Suspense

See?

Anyways, carry on!

Xavier wrote:

PvP is a strange game, the only winning move is not to play.

Break out of that box.

Some of my most heart-throbbing and best moments were brought about before, or because of Character combat.

Don't let the fear of change, cause you harm.

Xavier wrote:

PvP is a strange game, the only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess instead?

Va: Mate mate rook mate en passant bishop Latvian Gambit castle knight mate mate mate in you head.

Nah, doesn't have the same ring to it.

LOL @ Ruce

Regards,

Hmm, just finished reading the whole thread, and I'm not sure whether to continue lurking or contribute, seeing as my character is often at the centre of PvP. I personally enjoy PvP and always try to make it as enjoyable as possible, and rarely make the first offensive move let alone force pvp on somebody. I usually stand there and get Bibgy'd while I'm typing xD.

I guess the most important thing for me in pvp is to have PLENTY of rp beforehand, so the other player feels like you actually want to rp with them and not just test your build against theirs. I see a lot of people breaking RP by beginning PvP just when the RP is getting interesting and dramatic, and temperatures are rising. Always disappoints me.

I love having a bunch of hostiled people on my screen and just talking to them, because I know we are all at the edges of our seats as players, and our characters are likely nervous as well, preparing for combat.

When minimal RP leads to PvP, people get rightly pissed, so just show the other player some respect by RPing with their sub-optimally built character and give them a chance to shine!

My character is also a regular instigator of so called 'highwayman rp' and I'd like to know what everyone's problem with it is? Everyone has the option of emoting (meaning you don't lose anything at all) handing over some gold if they think the rp is boring and pointless and I will let them go by. If people don't give you that option they're breaking the rules.

I am happy to say my highwayman rp has involved many many players, creating lots of bad-guy RP for people to get involved with. Playing a bandit isn't about looking for an excuse to pvp people, its about presenting a villain for other characters to interact with.

Quote:

My character is also a regular instigator of so called 'highwayman rp' and I'd like to know what everyone's problem with it is? Everyone has the option of emoting (meaning you don't lose anything at all) handing over some gold if they think the rp is boring and pointless and I will let them go by. If people don't give you that option they're breaking the rules.

Because they dont want to think their character is flawed.
In otherwords their ego gets in the way and will do anything even to the point of OOC whining to not hurt their characters ego.

Nex_addo wrote:

Because they dont want to think their character is flawed.
In otherwords their ego gets in the way and will do anything even to the point of OOC whining to not hurt their characters ego.

There is an easier way for that actually.

Just let your character pretend it didn't happen. Can lead to some fun RP if done right.

"So, back on the highway when you got robbed."
"I didn't."
"What?"
"There was no highway, there was no robbery, and I wasn't beaten up!"
"But I saw it with m-!"
"Silence! There was no such thing and thats it."

or

"So, back on the highway when you got robbed."
"I don't want to talk about it."
"You s-"
"I SAID I don't want to talk about it!"

That is my take on things at least.

Also, if you make it sound positive will more people comply.

I still say '(Ridicolous) Highway taxes' sound better 'Than highway robbery' although it is the same.

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I still say '(Ridicolous) Highway taxes' sound better 'Than highway robbery' although it is the same.

It is not the same.

What the criminals on cordor do is robbery.

What the Horsemen do in the Skull Crags. Which is theres by right is taxation.

Kjetta wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

Playing almost exclusively drow characters I've had just as much crappy, no-RP PvP as anyone else (think "Oh, look! A lone drow. Kill it!" type RP)... but I've also had some really good RP come from PvP or lead to PvP.

"Oh, look! A lone drow. Kill it!" sounds like great RP! :)

Anyways, I agree with the OPs premise, that it must suck to lose in PvP. But I think the humiliation of losing already fulfills this purpose, so I see no need to add injury to insult in form of XP/Gold loss.

But the "Just ask a DM to dock a few levels and some gold off you" arguement must die! The aim of harsher penalties is obviously to create suspense.

"An audience experience suspense when they expect something bad to happen and have (or believe they have) a superior perspective on events in the drama's hierarchy of knowledge, yet they are powerless to intervene to prevent it from happening." - Wikipedia, on Suspense

See?

Anyways, carry on!

I agree with this.

Nex_addo wrote:

Quote:

I still say '(Ridicolous) Highway taxes' sound better 'Than highway robbery' although it is the same.

It is not the same.

What the criminals on cordor do is robbery.

What the Horsemen do in the Skull Crags. Which is theres by right is taxation.

Are they officially recognised as a sovereign nation with territory in that area, or regional jurisdiction by a recognised nation that does posses that territory?
If not, it is robbery.

Yurell wrote:

Are they officially recognised as a sovereign nation with territory in that area, or regional jurisdiction by a recognised nation that does posses that territory?

Your'e asking an IC question in an OOC thread

O'Raghailligh wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Are they officially recognised as a sovereign nation with territory in that area, or regional jurisdiction by a recognised nation that does posses that territory?

Your'e asking an IC question in an OOC thread

I don't need to know the answer, it simply decides whether it is robbery or taxation.

Ahh one of those rhetorical thingies, gotcha

Highwayman work is stuck in a logical trap, methinkles.

If you ask for sums that people will 'really' pay, they are going to be ridiculously small by the standards of the Amian economy, so you look daft. Three epics who can rampage from the Manor Ruin node to the FGK inside half an hour and they're asking for a hundredth the cost of a single Heal potion? No.

If you ask for an ICly sensible amount of gold, which people will almost certainly refuse to do anything but emote handing over, but that raises the problem that you really should be rolling in cash after a day's extortion, and they should really be broke. But they aren't.

Thus, I suggest to the Horsemen that instead of asking for money, they demand people swear allegiance to Valorian while on their claimed territory.

For other roadblocking types: Order of the Stick fans will remember Hayley's economic treatise on why banditry fails in DnD.

Kjetta, regarding self-imposed death penalties: Good point. I fold.

Yeah its never worth it cash wise to perform banditry, but it does create fun RP and PvP oppurtunities. But yes Ruce, especially on Amia, crime doesn't pay.

Oh and one other thing that was mentioned here somewhere, are you allowed to RP respawning?

I yelled at Signe once (not really, but kind of) for getting my character into a PVP instance where I knew she was going to lose. That was back when you could still read difficulty levels on other players. I already am a horrible PVPer and I didn't want to go into something I knew I was totally going to lose!

Since then, my perspective has changed. Signe was smarter than I am then, and still is now. It's not about winning or losing. And losing can be more fun than winning!

PVP is just another way to RP. Especially the way it is now, it's tough to abuse, and the DMs are really trying to monitor it well. (Though admittedly, they probably wish the Playerbase could just behave and do it themselves... it's not that hard to be considerate while PVPing...)

So yeah, sure, sometimes it can be boring and not be fun. But I'm sorry. I suffered through endless Ilharess meetings and Surfacer sacrificings that were SO SO SO boring. Like, I mean boring in the most boring of all senses. Not all of them were boring, but enough of them were.

I don't see anything about PVP that needs to be changed any more than things like Ilharess meetings and sacrifice ceremonies should be changed... or anything. We'll always have opinions on what's fun. Like Kjetta said, I think someone saying "Lone drow! Kill it!" would be great RP! Not everyone agrees.

So sometimes ya gotta suffer a little bit through something that's not your cup o' tea. What's worse about losing a wittle PVP battle or a PVP battle without enough "beginning RP" that isn't bad about that dimwit in Cordor who's annoying the crap out of you by hitting on every woman badly or yada yada...

People just complain too much!

Split from the accouncement --meant for questions--

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