Armourskin and either one of Epic Perform and Epic Discipline will do you more good that the difference between Knockdown and Improved Knockdown. I would lose Improved Crit and take Knockdown as a feat; against an SD you can then go Dragon scroll-shaped and KD them silly, and for everyone else it saves you commiting a ring slot to KD. That's a pain in the arse, especially since Bards very often need to swap both rings out for resting and singing.

Okay, so I can replace KD with Ep Skill Foc; Perform, IKD with Epic wep Foc or Armour skin?

I tested offline, leveled to thirty, fully buffered, had 41 AC with very basic items. Tower Shield +2, Medium armour (Base AC5), +1 Amulet and a +1 AC bracer.

Ring of the Ram is the one with the Bonus feat KD, right?

EDIT: Oh, alright, I guess I could swap Imp Crit for KD.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Crippling strike and sneak are really awesome. Monks have kind of low damage so the sneak will help out there too. I'd go with option two,

Don't make a Sneak Attacker without Blindfight. That's crazy talk.

Yeah, maybe, well look here then:

fighter5/monk3/rogue12 going fighter6/monk3/rogue21, feats:
Dodge
Ambidex
Two weap. fight
Imp. two weap fight
Knockdown
Imp. Knockdown
Weap. focus: Kama
Weap. spec: Kama
Imp. crit: Kama
Weap. finesse
Imp. evasion (rogue10)
Epics:
Epic weap. focus: Kama
Dex +1
Defensive roll (rogue13)
Armor skin
Epic dodge (rogue16)
Epic weap spec: Kama (fighter6)
Crippling strike (rogue19)
Epic prowness

Thats it

The fighter5/monk7/rogue8 going fighter6/monk7/rogue17
frees two preepic feat cause of free imp KD, for Blindfight and one more
but no rogue19 feat (crippling) and 2d6 less sneaks.

Feel free to make it better (maybe I dont really need imp crit since my dmg rely mostly on sneaks and the number of attacks? and maybe I can take crippling instead of..epic prowness??)

Thumbsdown to Dodge, when Blindfight is up for grabs. That assumes I correctly remember Opustus telling me he'd made his Joey fella offline without it, so it didn't become a pre-req in 1.69 like we thought it was going to.

Epic Skill Focus over Epic Prowess, too. I'm frequently amazed by how bad SD players are at fighting other sneaks, so Epic Spot combined with cornersneaking will splat them real horrowshow. Epic Discipline gets more use since everyone, PvM included, has special attacks.

Yush. Drop Dodge for Blind fight. And even if Dodge was really required for Epic Dodge, I'd much rather drop IKD than Blind fight.



You would get Crippling strike with only 16 Rogue levels too. 10th rogue level is Improved evasion, 13th goes for Defensive roll and 16th is Crippling strike. You can take Epic dodge as a regular epic feat, it doesn't have to be a bonus feat from Rogue levels.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

I am considering to rebuild my druid and toss in two rangers levels, one at 15 and one at 29 for a few reasons; 1. being able to allmost max spot, making him one mean Anti-sneaker, 2. being able to use longbow or handaxes and thus more usefull aside being a buffer carrying box for his companion, 3. possibly invest a few points in Hide and MS so he too can sneak around a bit, and 4. getting epic combat casting, or what its name is.

I will use my same starting stats, meaning 12 in everything else than wisdom and charisma. With max dex he can make full use of leather armour, and with 12 int he will get 6 skill points, focusing on the following skills:
Spellcraft: 4->33
Spot: 0->32
Concentration: 4->33
Tumble : 2-> 15

Leaves me 2 points per level to distribuite between Hide, MS, AE, Heal and Lore

My question is then: How much Hide/MS is necesary for basic sneaking past some monsters? How much AE is really needed? And what about Heal?

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Martial Proficiency is kinda wasted on Druids since their oaths don't let them use anything except the Druid Prof weapons. Although I'd be amazed if there's not some treehugger god who makes exception; there normally is, like that one who doesn't mind Druids wearing metal armour.

I'm not going to give a list of critter Spot/Listen scores, but I will say that without full ranks and gear, you can pretty much forget about sneaking the second string mobs at highbie, while the epic mobs are a test of the very best Sneaksters.

20 odd ranks in AE is fine, and Heal is kinda meh, especially for a Druid.

I am of the impression that druid is one of the few classes where you really want to pureclass. Is there a rule/tradition that you can't be an arch druid if you have multiclassed?

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To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!

That's a bit silly as the levels are pretty much completely OOC.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

I've decided to make a new character. It's going to be my first Monk and my second dev. critter. I'm planning on something along the lines of 20 monk/10 Rogue. The idea is to make a Dev. Critter who also has some killer sneaking skills without going SD. So obviously Strength will have to be my main focus, till I get it to 25. Secondly, Wisdom, as it is highly important for a Monk. My questions are:

What other ability is important for a Monk?
Are there any feats that are important?
Any suggestions on a better distribution of level between the classes I'm going with?

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

That would be Mielikki. She allows her druids to wear metal armor and use bows. They are supposed to take partial rolls as make shift Rangers if they have no ranger levels.



I don't believe so. And I don't see an issue with multiclassing a Druid. A few Rogue, Ranger, Fighter or Barbarian levels add spice to the character in many cases.

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

Well, as for the martial weapon profiency, seeing that elven druids freely can use longbows, rapiers and longswords, I doubt that the weapon thing is really important as oaths goes. Secondly, taking those two ranger levels gives him a much wider range of roles to fulfill. He can now also be an anti-sneaker and fairly good archer/thrower with zen-archery. He is that today with the sling, but the sling is next to useless as a weapon.

And thirdly, with my limited play time, I couldnt be an arch-druid even if I wanted to.

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Make it a Monk20/Rogue with Ftr4 or 6; the stat spread on a Dev Monk is paper thin, so the Ftr lets you take plenty of Great STR, and of course Epic WS never sucks for beating up the Sneakproof/critproof critters.

Writes itself, really.

It certainly used to be, but whether it came from the PnP lore or an Arelith homebrew(it's that old a rule), I have no clue.

I can see the logic of insisting the Archdruids are completely devoted to the Balance and all that treehugging boolcheet, but if one should be so foolish as to ask me, that doesn't necessarily exclude a few levels in Ranger, CoT, Cleric, Shifter, Blackguard of Malar and dare I say it, Monk of Eldath.

I disagree with Op about levels being OOC. In Uceland there's a spectrum of how much impact each class needs to have on your RP; Fighter and Rogue are at one end since they're just skills. Paladin and Druid are at the other - a single level of that of any of my characters and they'd act as Paladinly and Druidic as if they were pureclass.

Even Rogue and Fighter means that RPly you set aside whatever else you did for a while and focussed on those skills.

Basically I meant that there's no much difference between Rogue level 21 and Rogue level 22 RP-wise. Of course if you have 1 Pally, your character would hardly even know he's a paladin. If your character had 30 paladin levels, he'd be the badarse overpaladin of all paladins.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

The most famous assassin of the Realms has only one assassin level. I think it really comes down to what career you want your character to pursue.

_________________
The biologist wants to be a chemist.
The chemist wants to be a physicist.
The physicist wants to be God.
God wants to be a mathematician.

Heretic!

Since a paladin adheres to a code, not being aware of it would be more or less impossible. As a matter of taste, in my opinion a paladin is a paladin. Also, from the rules and lore forum:

I daresay your character could never NOT know he's a paladin, if he has a level in it. It's just One Of Those Things.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

*sobs, cuts* I was trying to talk... figuratively and all!

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Just tested it: We can indeed take Epic dodge without having Dodge...

Im wanting to make this solo character, and although I already have a fairly concrete Idea of the end character, getting there is a bit tougher.

Ranger 26, Monk 3, Rogue 1

Im debating taking 3 monk levels then the 21 Ranger levels
Or Ranger 21, then Ranger 3

Taking monk early would lower my final AB -1. It would however give more attacks earlier and more ac (like 3 more i think *shrug*) It also gives me cleave and can take weapon focus kama earlier.

Taking the ranger levels straight I would have +1 higher AB, more Favored Enemies faster and of course the most beloved, Bane of Enemies sooner. Also If i choose to use kama's I would be using hand axe until I took monk levels.

Wanting to have higher AB Id take Ranger first I guess, but much harder to level up, also curious as to this, because if i used kamas and takign Ranger early, Id have to squeeze all my wepaon focus and such feats in epic levels, And i assume there is better things to take.

I could use hand axes, they have a heavier crit, but Kamas offer 2 more attacks per round and possibly 3 with flurry of blows, One he reaches high levels and is loot hunting against favored enemies he will have good AB and will be able to turn power attack on and flurry to fly through them I imagine.

Im also debating on what race for sure, Im thinking Human-->Chultan (preferred class Ranger) So it helps with my AC, AB, and my leveling wont be as penalized.

Ive tested it out but cant be sure, I think Kama's come out on top of the Hand-Axe. Because only decreasing AB per hit by 3 instead of 5 and more attacks, although a smaller critical hit, In the long run the 4 legged friend will be doing a good portion of the work anyhow from what i heard, I think kamas win, am i right? Or horribly mistaken.

Anyone test this and see if monk 3- Ranger 21 is better in long run then Ranger 21- Monk 3.

I was able in offline mode to get Disciplpline, Concetration, Heal, Animal Empathy, Tumble, and UMD maxed out... I have to have Heal, no way around it, mostly a solo character and not wanting to open the coffers on heal pots so much.

8 attacks per round + pet (4?) = 12 attacks at fairly decent AB...
Even though he is dex based, I think the strength was still 12, and once getting bane of enemies almost everything is 2d6 damage in addition to banes +2 hit and his ranger favored enemy +5 to hit.

Another thing Im asking is what should be starting stats, Choosing Chultan I think I ended up with:
Str -12 -13
Dex-18 - 24
Con-14
Intel-14
Wis-14
Cha-6 (he lives in the woods whatdya expect?)

Until taking monk levels I could wear chainshirt or leather, decreasingly as I go til just wearing cloth and dex improves of course and a large shield.

I boosted Skill Points in Animal Empathy, Concentration, Discipline, Heal, Spot. And stored the rest.

Pre-Epic Feats were
Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Expertise, Knockdown, IKD, Blindfight, Power Attack,


Leveling Order was 21 Ranger 3 monk- 2 ranger - 1 rogue -3 ranger
Something of note is at
Level 20- 45ac (cloth and large shield)
Level 22- 50ac (gains tumble, still using shield)
Level 24- 54ac (drops the shield, gains 4 attacks per round +armorskin, assuming +12 wis gear should be easy enough with monk level fo gear and pots)
Level 27- 55ac (also gains umd so could be a lot higher and other stats improve as well)

Ends with 33 AE, 33 dis, 33con, 33 heal, 33spot,30 tumble, 30 umd

He would use Attack Bonus on his weapons instead on enchantement because of blade thirst so his AB just standing around is.
No Buff AB - 44,41,38,35,32,29 / 44,41
With Aid/Bless/Blade thirst - 47,44,41,38,35,32 / 47,44

Ac = 55 and he will have a pet to share the aggro.
Becomes of Bane of Enemies and Favored Enemy feats, any chosen he gets a +2 to hit on all attacks. 2d6 +6 damage as well.

Help with choosing the Favored Enemies and the order? He gets a total of 6 to choose from as it stands now, more if someone has better ideas on the level progression.

Thanks All, I know its long but I think putting mass detail helps more with people picking it apart versus beign very vague.

_________________

The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Ruce,
Epic Dodging Rogue/AA - UMD out the wazoo is planned.

The real difference is the discipline dump vs no discipline or cross classed discipline - there are enough skill point sloshing around to crossclass if desired. Not sure myself how valuable full discipline is on a primarily ranged pc.

Is the bard variant still laughing heartily or are we down to a muffled chuckle or a sheepish grin? Aside from the lack of xp penalty the only bonus from wizard would be 4 level one spells for Truestrikes or (insert spell here) and a lowbie familiar to talk to.

_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder

It's a little subdued, but not as much as I am for forgetting Rogues get UMD. *hangs head in shame*

Anyway, I'd bite the 20% in order to get hold of 33 Discipline. NWN's areas are too small for a straight shooter AA to depend on distance to save you, and since the Sneaker AA needs to be within 15 feet, you're even more likely to need a viable melee capability.

With your four-legged friend, using either boar, bear or direwolf, leveling will be cake easy as long as you use your head. Getting from 1-21 Ranger is no problem at all, you can solo alot of places from level 11 when the 10/- DR kicks in on your beast. Or more correctly, your beast can solo alot of places. You can just sit back and have a coffee while your pet tears werewolves, lizards and other unsavory creatures apart.

As for favoured enemies, undead is a must, lizards, and abberations too, while giants, outsiders, and various player races are neat to have as well, depending on what you intend to do with your character.

Also, my Ranger would be happy to learn any new, fledling Rangers his tricks and share his knowledge. Look for Valygar ingame, he will enslave.. er.. teach you stuff.

_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

Abyss
Actand
All Genasi ever
Tiefling
Aasimar
DM plot bosses are often Outsiders (mine at least)
Popular Summons

Outsider really sounds like a must-have FE too.

_________________
To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!

Follow Kjettas advice over mine. None of my chars have ever climbed past level 21, so i wouldnt really know what lies behind those levels

_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

FE depends on what kind of ranger you'll be. If you plan to be a protector (follower of Silvanus, Mielikki, Eldath, Nobanion or any other goodly nature god), I would go with undead for sure. You just have to. Secondly, outsiders and abberations. After that, go with whatever you think you'll find yourself fighting with most. What does your character oppose? What races does he hate, if any? What races would generally hate him for his race? For example, if you're an Elf, I would add Orc and Elves (to cover Drow) to FE.

_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

Outsiders and Undead are the sure choices.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Outsider, Undead, Giant.

The rest is fluff but common choices are Human and Elf.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Meant RP-wise, but yush what the git above me said. A bad thing about soloing giants is that your fluffy brute gets dismissed rather often. The fluffy brute is about 30% of your grandeur.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

I guess one is specificall for Ruce or Opustus they seem to be the happiest when milking characters.

Level Progression as stated above taking monk pre-epic grants more attacks earlier but -1 less AB for final.
Kamas seem to be the clear choice here.

Im struggling with feat choices though.

_________________

The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

About this: Is that 13 Str only for Power Attack? I wouldn't do it.

Also: Do you have all of your pre-epic feats mentioned in the pre-epic feat list? By that I meant this.



I guess not because you get 8 pre-epic feats as a human. Drop that silly Power attack for Improved critical and grab yourself a nice Weapon focus.

Dodge is a bit silly too and I'm not a great fan of Expertise myself, although admittedly it has its uses.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

@ Greatpigeon

I forgot about needing monk levels pre epic to be able to get weapon focus kama. So it seems if you're set on using kamas, you'd have to tkae your 3 monks pre epic.

Also, another plus on using hand axe is to bypass DR. Your kamas x2 crit multiplier won't scratch the pirate's loot, for example. But over all, being a ranger that picks favored enemies mainly for Amia's PvM will see you through easily enough.

I have an odd question. What's the most "relaxing" character build to play? That is, what requires the least babysitting when I run through a dungeon? I would consider anything where I'm constantly reappplying ten-round buffs, or constantly have to be ready to quaff a heal potion and manage my stock of a half-dozen different potions I need to drink to be effective, "not relaxing."

In other words, I'm not looking for the best, I'm looking for the most brainless. Any ideas?

18 Fighter /7 Weapon master/ 5 Rogue

or

24 Barbarian/ 4 Fighter/ 2 Rogue or Bard

The first one is easiest imo, use a warhammer and shield. You get early tumble AC at rogue on levels 7, 12, 17, 22, 27. You get to have lots of skills too. Take dwarf & toughness for extra meat.

The barbarian one should be quite straight forward too. Take fighter at level two so you can wear heavy plate early on. The abundance of HP makes it quite easy to play and the one click power up (rage) is pretty simple to use.

Another build that I haven't done but feel is pretty easy to play with is Druid 30.

You get your bear out, your elemental summon, and some other animal. Buff them up good. Go to town. Throw stoneholds every other spawn.

A wizard with a huge party. You just buff everything quickly and drink your cocktail alongside blasting a couple of useful spells about.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Str or Con bonus makes a good barb. . .so Half orc or Dwarf. Dwarf if you want 1 more line of skill points.

Advise 2 Rogue that 1d6 sneak die and evasion is worth alot more than whatever a bard can give you. And your Cha will be nerfed so Bard is just lame candy. You also wont require a fighter level til 8 not that it makes any difference.

The so very laid back it hurts version of a Barb is the epic DR/- III one. You miss out on the awesomeness of Thundering Rage but you get the ICBF of about 21/- physical resistance if geared correctly. Its AB stillhits a healthy fifty on a rage and damages is around 40~. Notably if you go 22 con 20 str you'll rage all day without an issue. (5 + 12) x 7 = 119 rounds.

Starter on a dawrf. If you really lazy you go 1 hander and a shield.

Its officially the laziest build i could come up with.

17str (20)
18con (22)
10dex
8wis
13int
6cha

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

I'd say Monk20/DwD6/Ftr4, myself. Immunities and SR out the chuff, even the STR-base gets adequate AC, while a DEXer is giggling about it.

You can be more forgetful with that one than just about anything else.

This make-ith me sad.

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Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder

Yeah, make it con based and take up to EDR III Wear all those resitances items and you should have like 3/ DR from the DwD and 9/ from the EDR feats.

I think if you min max it you can do monk 20/ dwd 5/sd/5 - get epic dodge/no flanking, and still have the 9 dr from EDR... and you'd still hit ok cause of the 1d20 fists and the uberness of monk gloves.

Me thinks?

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Hence the AA arrows being so barking-mad insanely strong. NWN utterly hates archery. I would stick with STR or DEX base.

I was wrong about the epic dodge and DR thats if you can take 40 levels.

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Aye, but I was thinking of going Bard just because you can skill dump on spellcraft. Barbarians get a good amount of skill points on them so they can afford it.

As to whether which is better between 30 spellcraft or evasion + 1d6 sneak.... Not sure. How good is spellcraft? +5 saves to spells and being able to know what your opponent casts exactly is worth it, me thinks. (Haven't memorized all the spells yet to know the spell just by looking at the caster)

Also you can use the mythal system witout needing help

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Spellcraft saves count towards your +20 cap so if you're whoring saves gear it's not really going to help you at all.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Im down to the final part of my build! Muahahaha. I've narrowed it down

The monk pre-epic in has better AC and AB until level 25, then the Monk post epic reaches the same AC and gets higher AB.

Monk in Pre Epic:
-1 AB, 4 Feats

Monk only in Epic:
+1 AB, 3 Feats

My feats Im looking at are in -
Expertise /IE
Knockdown/ IKD
Disarm/ ID

The feats I already have at level 30
Armor Skin, Bane of Enemies, Blind Fight, Cleave (monk freebie), Dodge, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess, Extend Spell, Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse

Is taking the one less AB at level 30, and being stronger til level 25 all the way around, worth it for having 4 of those, instead of 3?

I have 6 Favored Enemies, In order I plan on taking them this way

Reptilian, Giant, Undead, Aberration, Outsider, Human.... Good eh?

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

I'd completely forgotten Aberration and Reptilian. Shoot me.

Anyways, yep. Human or Elf, depending probably on whether or not you think you'll be PvPing more Humans or Elves/Drow.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham