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Delarwyn
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 Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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Why should they be punished by losing gold? They will get caught and the Rp will be the punishment no?
_________________ 
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Delarwyn wrote: Why should they be punished by losing gold? They will get caught and the Rp will be the punishment no?
Didn't you just spend the last few pages saying RP punishment wasn't enough?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Again, your failing to see my point. Let me make this more clear:
If you want me to scratch you back (give you more "realism" by being able to take my stuff through the PP skill), then you scratch my back (If I catch you and trap or kick your ass, I get my stuff back and maybe even a little something extra). A tad of realism for a tad of realism. Right?
I'm not suggesting everyone be able to loot people. That's too much. If someone PP steals from you though, you should be able to, again, if you catch them and trap or kill them, at the very least, take your stuff back.
If you want to suggest that that is stupid because at that point everyone should be able to loot anyone they kill, then PP is stupid all together because your letting someone take peoples things with the excuse of, "I put points in PP". That's BS.
Either take a hit, or don't whine when they disallow you being able to take peoples things.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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Yurell wrote: Delarwyn wrote: Why should they be punished by losing gold? They will get caught and the Rp will be the punishment no? Didn't you just spend the last few pages saying RP punishment wasn't enough? For items taken.. For Gold is different. Gold isn't rare, gold has no sentimental value, gold isn't all that difficult to get, and they cannot steal 1 million gold coins. So, I have no problem to deal with that.
Then, if you fail, enters what Gunz is saying. I can try to grapple you or beat you with a stick and get the gold back. If you run away, i will be there rping mad about being robbed. But, nothing real serious have happened. _________________
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Again, your failing to see my point. Let me make this more clear:
If you want me to scratch you back (give you more "realism" by being able to take my stuff through the PP skill), then you scratch my back (If I catch you and trap or kick your ass, I get my stuff back and maybe even a little something extra). A tad of realism for a tad of realism. Right?
I'm not suggesting everyone be able to loot people. That's too much. If someone PP steals from you though, you should be able to, again, if you catch them and trap or kill them, at the very least, take your stuff back.
If you want to suggest that that is stupid because at that point everyone should be able to loot anyone they kill, then PP is stupid all together because your letting someone take peoples things with the excuse of, "I put points in PP". That's BS.
Either take a hit, or don't whine when they disallow you being able to take peoples things.
How is that missing your point? They PP you, you catch them, you take back what was stolen and that again.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Delarwyn wrote: Well, I think we all agree now. ^^ Until Jan and Lascivar are back  Yup. Except we didn't add two pages like they did that I had to read upon waking
So we (for varying definitions of we) seem to agree in principle (just in case Disco can be bothered reading):
PP should be gold only.
PP should return stolen gold + the amount stolen (?) if captured
Edit: Fixed typos *grumbles about keyboard*
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
Last edited by Yurell on Thu, May 28 2009, 2:16 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:15 AM |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Take back what is stolen, that's fine. Take more and you become a thief yourself. No two ways about it, justify it to high heaven if you like but in the eyes of the Law (or lawful?) you are just as bad as them, if not worse. They are a petty thief, you are a murderer and a thief.
Also, I would assume that people with multi-million gold inventories carry their coins in a more valuable medium then gold (platinum, gems and so on) so PPing 200 000 gold or more should be quite reasonable if you can pass a PP roll against an Epic character.
EDIT: I wouldn't say we totally agree. If a mechanical way for stolen goods to be retrieved from a caught thief can be found then I still think all items should be fair game. Not many people share this view however so I would be happy with SIGNIFICANT sums of gold instead (relative to character level of course).
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
Last edited by The Incognitos on Thu, May 28 2009, 2:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Delarwyn wrote: Well, I think we all agree now. ^^ Until Jan and Lascivar are back Ohohoho!
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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The Incognitos wrote: Take back what is stolen, that's fine. Take more and you become a thief yourself.
Except I stated earlier that it would be a fine by the government paid back to the victim in recompense.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Yurell wrote: The Incognitos wrote: Take back what is stolen, that's fine. Take more and you become a thief yourself. Except I stated earlier that it would be a fine by the government paid back to the victim in recompense. That's for the guards to decide. Laws vary from place to place. _________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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nah, I don't think you need to take more gold than it was stolen. I would get back what is mine and that is all. But, we dont need a widget for that. just common sense from people playing.
_________________
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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The Incognitos wrote: Yurell wrote: The Incognitos wrote: Take back what is stolen, that's fine. Take more and you become a thief yourself. Except I stated earlier that it would be a fine by the government paid back to the victim in recompense. That's for the guards to decide. Laws vary from place to place. Yes, but that requires a DM on 24/7. My suggestion was merely a mechanical answer with an IC reason for existing.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Yurell wrote: o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote: Lets thicken this shall we? If I catch you, and kill you, trying to steal from me a second time, I take everything you have on you after gutting you like a pig. That's realistic. Right? How about opening yourselves up to permakill too? No? But, but, but, but, realism? Remember? Most of the arguments against PP, not for, are based on realism. Sure, you want realism? My thief can just slit your throat and then rob you, or we could have the above group of sorcerors come along. That's what I was referring to. The Incognitos wrote: Take back what is stolen, that's fine. Take more and you become a thief yourself. No two ways about it, justify it to high heaven if you like but in the eyes of the Law (or lawful?) you are just as bad as them, if not worse. They are a petty thief, you are a murderer and a thief.
So? Whats your point? If you steal from me, I can steal right back, if I catch you. That's fair.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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well, not if you are a lawful Good Guns. If you are a lawful Good you will get him by the collar and hand him to the guards and get the money he stole and walk away after doing your duty for a better society.
_________________
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Which is why I said having it take the gold and call it a fine to justify what is happening without the need for DMs.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Like Del said, if you steal from me and I caught you, I don't "steal" right back. I just get back my item or gold. Not "steal back". Just "item/gold returned". It's different.
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Delarwyn wrote: well, not if you are a lawful Good Guns. If you are a lawful Good you will get him by the collar and hand him to the guards and get the money he stole and walk away after doing your duty for a better society.
Sure, but not everyone plays lawful characters. So they should have the option.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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I would agree to the "well, I'll steal your stuff back" if you agree to leave items available for theft. Or perhaps allow mugging? That is PvPing to death another character then PPing them.
If this is about balancing PP then make it balanced, not a PP beat down.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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The Incognitos wrote: I would agree to the "well, I'll steal your stuff back" if you agree to leave items available for theft. Or perhaps allow mugging? That is PvPing to death another character then PPing them.
If this is about balancing PP then make it balanced, not a PP beat down.
Again, a bit of realism for a bit of realism or nothing at all. Anyway, there's little point in arguing my point since it seems they'll be taking away the ability to steal peoples items through PP anyway. Problem solved, as far as I'm concerned.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 2:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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I just cannot believe how precious people are being with this whole PP concept. Why limit PP to gold if a system can be put in place to retrieve stolen items if the thief is caught?
If sentimental value is a concern then buy the item back. I'm sure a thief would be happy to sell it.
What about a single container that cannot be PPed? A money belt equivalent. Of course this would have a limited capacity so you'd have to be careful with what you took out or put in.
Finaly, if you don't want to be PPed, take precautions.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Selmak
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 3:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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You can't automatically retrieve stolen items from a thief who is caught, unless you have a set definition for how a thief can be caught, and the item can be returned to the player (in other words they have to be online).
You can turn over a stolen item voluntarily if you're caught, as long as it's to the player you stole from.
For every if, there's an or. I swear.
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 3:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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But, IF a game mechanics system can be created that returns stolen items would there be a problem?
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 3:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I must admit that I am rather wary of the idea of items being taken, especially considering how rare and valuable some items are.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 3:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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The Incognitos wrote: I just cannot believe how precious people are being with this whole PP concept. Why limit PP to gold if a system can be put in place to retrieve stolen items if the thief is caught?
If sentimental value is a concern then buy the item back. I'm sure a thief would be happy to sell it.
What about a single container that cannot be PPed? A money belt equivalent. Of course this would have a limited capacity so you'd have to be careful with what you took out or put in.
Finaly, if you don't want to be PPed, take precautions.
I understand your line of thinking Jess, really. Personally, I like PP being able to steal actual stuff since it's what it's really supposed to do, and that's not the problem. Even an item's sentimental value is worth poo to me since stealing really is what PP does. What bothers me, and I presume most of who have some hate for PP as well, is that there are only 2 ways to get back your item, unless I missed something else:
1) The PPer graciously returns the item OOCly or maybe even ICly, or
2) Contact a DM
Option 1 is ideal, but not all players subscribe to it. This applies mostly to situations when the thief was caught, of course.
Option 2 seems moot since if you take a good look around, a handful of DM's themselves are all for having the current system away.
With that said, I'm all for a system that enables you to steal actual items but still let the victim retrieve the item if *given the opportunity*.
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Selmak
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 3:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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The Incognitos wrote: But, IF a game mechanics system can be created that returns stolen items would there be a problem?
That largely depends on the system.
If you have a 'hot goods' type of system where stealing items doesn't get you an immediate payoff, there's a strong incentive to sell items back to victims instead of waiting for the goods to 'cool down'.
If you have an 'I must catch you to claim back my items' system, there's a strong incentive to stay one step ahead of the someone chasing you, and every chance you'll meet a sticky end if you don't.
Both of them have logical hurdles to overcome. Like I said, 'For every if, there's an or.'
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Daniel_Waynold
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 5:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Oh for the love of god! The easiest way is to make it so, that the skill rolls up if he succeeds in theft, and creates gold to the thief, and not takin it away from the player they 'stole' it from. The random % chance of geting a tiny / small item would be good too. Chanse of the % directly from unmodified skill maybe?
Yes, I know someone said thease already, and all groly to them. I just fail to see, why people are trying to do this the hard way! No one loses acualy anything in this method, thieves are happy to go around and steal, but if they fail, no harm done acualy. Thay might not get gold, but are seen, and then reconiced later.
And I agree to Torm, that looting the dead would be okay, BUT I would like to see some mechanic in there relevant in my posts start. Maybe when you find a dead body, you click on it and you take (again, the system generates gold out of nowhere, so no one acualy looses anything) some gold, maybe 2x Hit Dice amount of D6's rolled to see how much you got gold? That would make it 4 - 24 g at lvl 2 and 60 - 360 g at lvl 30. Also, I would suggest, that the chanse of looting the dead and finding a item (yes, any size, as you are not trying to be sneaky or too picky about your choises.  ) would be ecual % to your current HD. Level 12 fighter stumbles across body and desides to loot it, it gets to roll 12 D6 for the gold, and the amount is doublet (you can leave the 2x off, if it is too complicated. Just thought to have some more gold. You could also increase it to 5 or 10 ^^' ) and he also has 12% chance to find some item.
Sorry for confusing message, I'm tired and going off to work. I hope something like this would be taken in use.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 5:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Daniel_Waynold wrote: Oh for the love of god! The easiest way is to make it so, that the skill rolls up if he succeeds in theft, and creates gold to the thief, and not takin it away from the player they 'stole' it from. The random % chance of geting a tiny / small item would be good too. Chanse of the % directly from unmodified skill maybe? Yes, I know someone said thease already, and all groly to them. I just fail to see, why people are trying to do this the hard way! No one loses acualy anything in this method, thieves are happy to go around and steal, but if they fail, no harm done acualy. Thay might not get gold, but are seen, and then reconiced later. And I agree to Torm, that looting the dead would be okay, BUT I would like to see some mechanic in there relevant in my posts start. Maybe when you find a dead body, you click on it and you take (again, the system generates gold out of nowhere, so no one acualy looses anything) some gold, maybe 2x Hit Dice amount of D6's rolled to see how much you got gold? That would make it 4 - 24 g at lvl 2 and 60 - 360 g at lvl 30. Also, I would suggest, that the chanse of looting the dead and finding a item (yes, any size, as you are not trying to be sneaky or too picky about your choises. ) would be ecual % to your current HD. Level 12 fighter stumbles across body and desides to loot it, it gets to roll 12 D6 for the gold, and the amount is doublet (you can leave the 2x off, if it is too complicated. Just thought to have some more gold. You could also increase it to 5 or 10 ^^' ) and he also has 12% chance to find some item. Sorry for confusing message, I'm tired and going off to work. I hope something like this would be taken in use. So... we apply that then change the name "pickpocket" to "kinetic alchemy" then?
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 6:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Daniel_Waynold wrote: Oh for the love of god! The easiest way is to make it so, that the skill rolls up if he succeeds in theft, and creates gold to the thief, and not takin it away from the player they 'stole' it from. The random % chance of geting a tiny / small item would be good too. Chanse of the % directly from unmodified skill maybe? Kind of defeats the purpose of stealing doesn't it? If it created gold, you'd just get your best PP friends with you al day and just PP each other as a get-rich-quick scheme. Daniel_Waynold wrote: And I agree to Torm, that looting the dead would be okay, BUT I would like to see some mechanic in there relevant in my posts start. Maybe when you find a dead body, you click on it and you take (again, the system generates gold out of nowhere, so no one acualy looses anything) some gold, maybe 2x Hit Dice amount of D6's rolled to see how much you got gold? That would make it 4 - 24 g at lvl 2 and 60 - 360 g at lvl 30. Also, I would suggest, that the chanse of looting the dead and finding a item (yes, any size, as you are not trying to be sneaky or too picky about your choises. :) ) would be ecual % to your current HD. Level 12 fighter stumbles across body and desides to loot it, it gets to roll 12 D6 for the gold, and the amount is doublet (you can leave the 2x off, if it is too complicated. Just thought to have some more gold. You could also increase it to 5 or 10 ^^' ) and he also has 12% chance to find some item.
And again, this stuff is appearing out of nowhere? So you just get a dozen friends, get hem to kill you, they all loot you, then you come back to life, kill another, play ring around the rosey and all of a sudden you're all rolling in gold?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 6:17 AM |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Kinetic alchemy...hahahaha. Daniel, that basically turns a skill into a job system spin off. That would lead to a gaggle of PP built characters demanding, rightly so, that PP be made part of the job system and they be given those skill points back or perhaps even a full rebuild.
Also, it removes the victim from the equation. Criminals want a victim that they can see the theft coming from, otherwise they are just Bankers.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Lascivar
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 7:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Jesus christ.. Gimme a bit to read all this shit..
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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ainjyll
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 7:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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After spending the better part of an hour reading over this whole debate, I'll throw my two cents in to the debate and perhaps bring some new thoughts into the mix.
1.) It's been said thousands of times that the economy on Amia is way over-inflated. Having PP draw from the Amian Gold Fairy would only increase this problem. I know not much, but I thought the general idea was to try to decrease this problem, even if it's only by 0.00000000001%.
2.) As soon as the word "realism" comes into play, I cringe. "Realism" is a cop out way to make any plausible situation an arguing point.
Person A: This that realism then some more of that.
Person B: But, that this realism that and some more buts.
3.) I, admittedly, don't know too much on how exactly PP works. I know the outcomes, though. It seems to me that PP is pretty easy to catch with just basic spot gear and very little Skill Points actually devoted to the spot. This being said, if you're character doesn't have a lick of spot skill and he get's PP'd... well, he's not very aware of what's going on around him, is he? It falls into the same category of the Barbarian with an INT of 8 who is also the equivalent of a Doctor of Philosophy.
4.) It seems to me the most reasonable solution is to:
Eliminate the ability to steal items and then remove the yellow warning that tells people they've been successfully PP'd. That just screams META! I'd even dare a DM to do a little test and take a few hundred gold from someone and see if they can even tell what you took. I'd bet my last dollar that there isn't a single person on the server that would be able to tell if their epic character was missing a few hundred gold.
It seems to me that people are complaining and getting all worked up over losing something. You can't win everything and there are characters out there that are not looking out for your character's best interests. Their goals directly counteract your character's for whatever reason. If a character gets PP and suffers no negative repercussions, what's the fun? People have argued that there isn't any chance of repercussion. I beg to differ. Yeah, you can't just PK the person and get your whatever back, but you can PK them, screenie the deal and send to a DM or get a DM, etc, etc, etc.
Repercussions have also been discussed. Well, be creative. Yeah, you can't permanently kill the thief or really disfigure him unless the player consents to it. However, you can get them banned from the city, put bounties on their head and generally make their life hell from all sides. After playing drow for as long as I have, I've learned dozens of ways to get at someone outside of how it would normally be done. A drow would just sink a dagger in your back in the dark and be done with it.... we on Amia have to be a little more crafty to really prove the point. The same principle applies itself here.
I think the matter's pretty much been settled for the most part. While I don't really see the importance of being able to steal items that meet certain requirements as a big problem... I can understand how others can view it and don't really see a problem with getting rid of that part of the PP skill. I do think that people bitching over a few hundred gold should get the fuck over themselves and stop being such a twat. And for gawd's sake, don't escalate it or take it to the abstract of "it's my stuff"... no... it's a collection of pixels with a bit of programming behind them to make them react in certain ways with other bits of programming. It's not anything tangible. Even more so with gold.... Even if a character with 500,000 gold got PP'd 3 times a day every day for 1000g/PP it would still take almost 167 days to PP them for all their gold. In an economy where you can nab an item worth 100,000 gold in a few spawns, losing 3,000 and complaining about it is just petty. Get over it.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 8:06 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Anyway, so far so good:
1. I block any and all inventory item from pickpocket
2. I take away the PP penalty
3. The widget gets ditched
4. You get a set of gloves that give you access to player tool 1
5. You can use this tool (doesn't break stealth) on PCs and NPCs
Result from a PC
- 50% chance that PCs 'donate' their own money to your cause, based on their wealth and capped by their level. It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level.
- 50% chance that you lift some peculiar item from a PC. This is generated by the system. Think of "Tormak's Wallet" or "Gers' Dirty Underpants". You can sell these items, and they come in 5 price categories (5 GP for lousy stuff till 500 for good stuff).
Result from an NPC
- You only get gold
- Animals etc gain you nothing. Can't pick creatures without pockets.
- People inside cities & houses give more gold than people inside rural areas who give more than people in wilderness.
6. DC is determined by alerted state (has this person been picked before?), spot, and if you have been seen. You roll modified ranks.
7. You get as much XP on a success as you bought skills in pickpocket.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 8:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Thanks Disco! That sounds awesome.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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ticket
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 8:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Sounds great!
Couple of suggestions:
1. Is it possible to get an auto-win on PP when the victim is dead/turned to stone/dazed/etc?
2. Put a cool down on it or a diminishing return curve on the rewards. Avoids exploits.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 8:22 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Yeah, it will have some security measures. Not sure about dead people. Corpses always react in a somewhat peculiar way to scripting.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 8:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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*rages at his money being stolen, and a 1 mil person that loses 1 percent means they steal 10k... which means someone needs to go PP Prescia*
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Lascivar
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 8:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Dev Disco wrote: Result from a PC
- 50% chance that PCs 'donate' their own money to your cause, based on their wealth and capped by their level. It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level. Now that, I'm very happy to see.. Nice bit of scaling with level. TormakSaber wrote: *rages at his money being stolen, and a 1 mil person that loses 1 percent means they steal 10k... which means someone needs to go PP Prescia*
7,500gp cap from a level 30, 250gp/level.
If you indeed have 750,000gp in your inventory, you can afford some spot items.
(Idea.. Kill Prescia, invite every person with a single PP point on the server to come 'borrow' some gold from the corpse. xD)
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 9:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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If you are going to implement the PP skill to be able to remove coin from a PC I would prefer static hard caps, opposed to percentile ones that unfairly punish wealthy PCs.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Lascivar
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 9:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Dwagin wrote: If you are going to implement the PP skill to be able to remove coin from a PC I would prefer static hard caps, opposed to percentile ones that unfairly punish wealthy PCs.
There are hard caps, max of 250gp per level. 7,500g being the highest possible from a 30 and that's -if- they're holding 750k+ gold.
Again, if you have that much gold, you easily have enough to get some greater mythals, throw some +5 Spot on a handful of items or go out and buy spot items. I don't see the issue, don't be stingy with your gold and just get some spot?
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 9:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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He says either, or, not both, Lasc.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 9:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Percentage-based is too much. 250gp/level seems reasonable. *nod nod*
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Lascivar
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 9:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Magnum Opera wrote: Percentage-based is too much. 250gp/level seems reasonable. *nod nod*
It's identical. -.- 250gp/level is the cap.
If a person has 750,000gp and it's not percentage-based, they're still going to have 7,500gp stolen from them if they're 30, because that's 250gp/level. The percentile is just to save poorer people from losing as much, which I understand entirely.
(Hell I think I've posted more in the past couple of days than I ever have, and it's defending some bloody skill I don't even have.)
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 9:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Oh right, got it now, heh. It's pretty good then.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 10:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level.
It's not both, it's one or the other. Either you take 1% of GP with no cap, or 250/level with a cap.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 11:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: Quote: It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level. It's not both, it's one or the other. Either you take 1% of GP with no cap, or 250/level with a cap. I thought it would choose whichever is lower
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Xaviera
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 11:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Selmak wrote: I already said, doesn't matter how much anyone may want to have a bigger payout in GP, it can't be done without drastically reducing the frequency of payouts. Otherwise, someone can log on, pickpocket a few chumps, and log off without facing any consequences.
Yeah, but this is effectively equivalent to griefing/PvPing and could get you banned, no?
Can someone tell me exactly what you do get out of the current pickpocket system? What is the chance of item vs gold? And if gold, what is the amount?
I think gold only, from the victim's inventory, is what should be awarded. The amount should not be so high that the victim loses a significant percentage of their cash, but it should be high enough to make the job vaguely rewarding. Maybe a max of 100 gp, scaled by the amount they have in inventory and by the degree of success.
I think that a limit of once per victim per reset for each PPing PC, that way nobody gets spammed unless they're mobbed by thieves (which is a method used RL). Can the names of the victims be stored on the PP widget and erased at reset?
EDIT: And sure, why not make it a job rather than a skill, if you can. Maximum rank determined by Rogue level (up to 3, obviously) so that there are no master Pickpocketters with 1 rogue level. _________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Lascivar
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 11:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Yurell wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Quote: It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level. It's not both, it's one or the other. Either you take 1% of GP with no cap, or 250/level with a cap. I thought it would choose whichever is lower Since it doesn't seem to be too obvious, and Tormak only quoted part of what Disco wrote for some reason. Dev Disco wrote: based on their wealth and capped by their level. It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level.
If the target is level 10 and has 500000gp (for some reason), then they will lose 2500gp as it is capped by their level, even though 1% of their 500000gp is in fact 5000gp.
If said target only has 20000gp (a little more normal-ish), then the thief will steal only 200g, which is 1% of their gold, even though the level cap is 250gp/level.
The system seems perfectly acceptable. It has a 50% chance, to take 1% of the person's gold, but won't breach 250gp/level.
Understand?
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 11:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Okay, that's what I thought ... thanks for clarifying
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Thu, May 28 2009, 11:30 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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TormakSaber wrote: Quote: It's either 1% of their money, or 250 GP/level. It's not both, it's one or the other. Either you take 1% of GP with no cap, or 250/level with a cap. Lascivar it's right, it's 1%, up to that cap.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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