AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Anything that gives any, even slim, access to another person's inventory without thusly opening themselves up to the same is indeed an unfair advantage.

Make the PP widget work on NPCs with a randomly determined result (based on NPC Hit Die against your own PP Skill), with the whole Risk situation (Gain or Lose XP, etc)

Either that, or we institute a system that lets any individual rob a corpse - in which case I reserve the right, as any of my powerbuild (spot possessing) PCs, to kill you, take -everything- you have, and leave you for dead.

One-way theft without chance of effective recourse is bad, no matter how minor or major you want to make it.

Last edited by Delarwyn on Wed, May 27 2009, 1:16 AM, edited 1 time in total.

as long they cannot steal my deity rings, that a character of mine collects. As long as they cannot steal my AA arrows that are not easy to find and collect. As long as they don't steal my little trickets that I have being saving for ever, well I am fine with it.

I have a rogue and I didn't add pp skills points. Delarwyn has a rubi that she carries since Aster gave to her in their engagement almost two years ago. His character is long gone, but she carries the gem, and she carries the rings. She gave Niss an arrow made of gold that is the symbol of her love, it is called Delarwy's heart and costed me 3 dcs. I would be quite sad if someone steal that from him.

Lisselle carries two alexandrites that are earrings and she got from someone also special on her life. They are small things, they worthy nothing for any place but it would totally ruin my day if they were taken away.

They are part of the story of my characters and they would be safely placed inside bags inside a bag of holding that my characters carry attached to their waste. That is how I RP it, how will a pick pockter know that there are one bag with so many bags inside and how long would he go thru it without being notice just because my characters didnt have any spot?

I honestly would ask my "special things" back and I would totally hold against a player that don't give them back to me.

You can steal 1000 gold from me. I wont give a damn, but don't touch my tiny things that have loads of story added to it.

I am sorry that some of you have no such an item. Like someone's feather people were paying millions for. Imagine if that feather were stolen? How fair is it?

Oh, life isn't fair, so just swallow it and RP dont work well. It causes pain, it causes people pissing off about things and maybe even leaving the game if the thing stolen was a matter of importance.

I would make pick pocketers able to steal a bag of gold with 1000 gold or more, I dont care, but I wouldnt give them the ability to steal objects that may mean a world to someone else.

Quote:

as long they cannot steal my deity rings, that a character of mine collects. As long as they cannot steal my AA arrows that are not easy to find and collect. As long as they don't steal my little trickets that I have being saving for whenever, well I am fine with it.

They can. And they're never obligated to give them back. Ever. Even if you kill them. Repeatedly. In the face.

Well, then I am completely against it. And I wont be accepting it kindly. I am honest. I have too many things with huge sentimental value to me that would ever be hanging on my bag if it was possible to have a house to put them into a safe, or if there was a bank that I could guard them on.

If I am not allowed by the game mechanics to protect my things, it is utterly unfair that someone can grab something that I have no option but carry with me all the time.

And I honestly say if someone pick pocket me and take one of the things that were gift and that I have a great care for, I will take it personally.

I see that most everyone agrees here.

Remove PP and give every rogue (with PP) a rebuild. Sounds easy enough.

Because honestly, if it does (censored) from now on I'd rather drop those points into Bluff or something.

After reading through all of these, and every post by Tormak, I'm 100% in agreement with his "its a one-way road" argument.

So we're looking at...

1) Add it to the job system where the PP can gain gold/xp and the looted person faces no consiquence
or
2) Ajust it to ignore items somehow and make it only take gold, and some calculation in there topped off at 520gp.

Now, I'm all befuzzled. If I'm going to get PPed succesfully and loose some GP is fine, expecially if it is capped somewhere 1k or less. 1k stolen is a plenty good sudden-gain and rather easy for the robbed character to re-gain with hunting and selling loots in or some jobs, selling harvested items "to the system" can cover that easily. [See here, the robbed character has choices.] Heck, for those 30's, I'm not so sure many are going to fret it they loose 1k a reset from a pickpocket who's learned their targets. [I know, I know, 3picks a reset, but you'd also risk griefing to do that without gaps- PP's would learn to be cautious eh? [I pray]]

So ending ramblings, how plausible is:

3) Job System. PP can earn xp+gold or xp+small item per success. Small Item consititutes anything, literally, small. It could be rigged to have a decent sell [maybe it's considered bonus and sells better on average!] or has a single-cast use.
The robbed PC won't ever loose more than gold. Even when an item is stolen, they loose gold representing the value of their belongings lost [and cost to replace them].

/endrant

That "one way road" analogy is quite right, but that's what stealing is. If you get robbed then tough luck, you got robbed. If we go down the other path being a thief or burglar through the job system is a double standard. Why should someone be able to rob NPCs and not PCs?

All rogues would end up having to be either Assassins or Shadowdancers. It's dull, you might as well remove criminal elements all together. That's where that road leads.

And Yurell is right, anyone with ranks in PP should get a free rebuild if the skill is removed or turned into a job system.

The Incognitos wrote:

That "one way road" analogy is quite right, but that's what stealing is. If you get robbed then tough luck, you got robbed. If we go down the other path being a thief or burglar through the job system is a double standard. Why should someone be able to rob NPCs and not PCs?

All rogues would end up having to be either Assassins or Shadowdancers. It's dull, you might as well remove criminal elements all together. That's where that road leads.

And Yurell is right, anyone with ranks in PP should get a free rebuild if the skill is removed or turned into a job system.

You missed the point. "One-way road" meant that a thief steals from you, then you put the beatdown on his arse, but still you can't get your thingy back even if the thief is lying there helplessly at -9 HP.

Magnum Opera wrote:

The Incognitos wrote:

That "one way road" analogy is quite right, but that's what stealing is. If you get robbed then tough luck, you got robbed. If we go down the other path being a thief or burglar through the job system is a double standard. Why should someone be able to rob NPCs and not PCs?

All rogues would end up having to be either Assassins or Shadowdancers. It's dull, you might as well remove criminal elements all together. That's where that road leads.

And Yurell is right, anyone with ranks in PP should get a free rebuild if the skill is removed or turned into a job system.

You missed the point. "One-way road" meant that a thief steals from you, then you put the beatdown on his arse, but still you can't get your thingy back even if the thief is lying there helplessly at -9 HP.

If you don't catch them then they are scot free anyway, if you do catch and kill them then the goods should be returned. Would it be possible to add a script to the PP widget that marks the stolen item so it is dropped if the thief is killed during that reset period?

What about a 'swag' that stolen items and gold are sent to and cannot be removed from until a DM approves it? The PP player will then have to go through a DM. If a player is pick pocketed and then kills the thief, they can post it on the forums and there will be a record of it. It may take a little work but it's surely comparable to rebuilding everyone with ranks in PP.

It would be very unfair to deny rebuilds to everyone with ANY ranks in PP if the skill is taken away. If it is made into a job then anyone could try it without needing PP skills, they would be redundant.

Last edited by Delarwyn on Wed, May 27 2009, 2:50 AM, edited 1 time in total.

*sighs* well, if it is the way you all think it should be, small objects and such. I will take note of my "special things" and I will replace it in case of being robbed. It wont be the same since they were giving to me but I can pretend they are. But, it troubled me at first sight and I answered in the heat of the idea of having any of it stolen and I am not really all comfortable with that.

But, it is a game and I don't want people getting all rebuilt because of it. But, before Looting Del and Liss cause they are the ones with those objects, let me note what they are and such so I can replace them if stolen. And, just so you know, they worth not even 1 gp

Another thing that troubles me is that you cannot safe keep them at home, a bank or a box under your bed. You cannot just strangle the person and get it back. You have nothing of what people would do to protect themselves against burglary in game. So, yes, there are bad guys that can robe you, but, you still need to carry your whole life in the back like a turtle and risk everything you have everyday.

Even as a player with PP, I agree with Del on people not being able to lose items with sentimental value.

In my opinion, gold only is fine by me. But if it does bollocks at all, I'd like my points back.

There's the old storage system where you can keep your stuff then they give you slips/receipts for claiming your stored items later. Would it work? Maybe make the receipts bigger so that they can't be pick-pocketed from you?

Mark the receipts as plot items?

There's also a long-stand 'bug' with that system. If you trade away the reciptes, it still makes you as having those take up space in your "Storage".

TormakSaber wrote:

Yurell wrote:

StandingBehindYou wrote:

The Incognitos wrote:

How wussy can we get? It's bad enough for rogues as it is, what with the total lack of high level purchasable goods and crazy listen spot skills everywhere, taking pick pocket as well would really damage the 'classic' rogue image.

How about this: you can keep pickpocket, but everyone who takes the pickpocket skill can be looted.

I'm sure you would be in favor of that, right?

They can be, so long as you take PP.

No. This is stupid. I don't need to be a trained cutpurse to gut you like a fish and walk away with your magic bags full of loot.

The next time my PC kill you, I will log DMside, take everything that you have equipped, and give it to my PC. If you complain, I will ignore you and say I earned it with my character's skills.

This is what pickpocket does, at its most basic., It allows you to take other character's and player's gold and items without their consent, without their permission, anytime you'd like, with no chance for REAL retribution. Dying IC is nothing. Why? Because you still got their stuff.

I'm sorry, are you allowed to cheat like that? I invest ranks in a skill, use it as it has been horrible nerfed, pull of a luck roll, and you kill me and use DM powers to steal all my stuff in revenge.
And no, it's not justice, it's revenge.

I would think it's a good idea to put timer on the items and if you die the item goes back, but if you are willing to use DM powers to cheat like that, would you do the same if I killed your character? Would you log DM side and give me all of his items, since my character killed yours and should be able to loot.

What I am asking for now is a DM team, not an individual, answer - are DMs allowed to do that? If so, why does a DM have this right and not every other player?

Last edited by TormakSaber on Wed, May 27 2009, 4:09 AM, edited 1 time in total.

No, I'm not, but apparently you're allowed to kill me and spam pickpocket on my dead body until you get bored.

Funny how it's cheating if I use DM powers to do it, but if you do the exact same thing with a skill and a PC widget... evn if you're a DM, and you get the same result? It's not cheating.

Funny how that works, I guess.

EDIT: BTW, you harped on my example, but failed to read the actual paragraph explaining ythe context of the example.

Quote:

This is what pickpocket does, at its most basic., It allows you to take other character's and player's gold and items without their consent, without their permission, anytime you'd like, with no chance for REAL retribution. Dying IC is nothing. Why? Because you still got their stuff.

Okay, I'm going to make a facetious reply now, in contrast to the well thought out post above: Read it out, I think it's relevant.

Yes, I can do that, because I am a DM. It is entirely justified. IC consequences for IC actions.

Quote:

I would think it's a good idea to put timer on the items and if you die the item goes back, but if you are willing to use DM powers to cheat like that, would you do the same if I killed your character? Would you log DM side and give me all of his items, since my character killed yours and should be able to loot.

Um? No. Sorry. No, II would not log DMside and let you take my character's loot. After all, you're not a DM. Why would i let you do that? How about this: you can keep pickpocket, but everyone who takes the pickpocket skill can be looted. I'm sure you would be in favor of that, right? My answer? If you want to loot me, become a DM. If you're not a DM. You can't loot me. They can be, so long as you take PP.

I'm a DM, and so I have access to your inventory. Sorry. It's just how the skill works! Looting is a one way road. you don't really get to complain about it. That's just how it works. That "one way road" analogy is quite right, but that's what stealing is. If you get robbed then tough luck, you got robbed.

I think he was just making a point and that he would not do that Yurell.

I actually deeply dislike the idea of you or anyone going into my bag and randomly getting an small object that shouldn't be there in the first place. They would, if not to be used in battle, be at my character's home anyway.

Honestly who walks around with fifty dresses? Thirty valuable rings? precious gems? No one does. We do because we have to because of the mechanics of the game.

I would honestly set, the robbery to gold. I would add more gold for higher roll and I would give someone that rolls a 20 for example, 10k in gold coins that was in a small bag inside his pocket. But, never objects.

People walk around with money, but they dont walk around with all their belongings.

edit: And that goes for Tormie too. All my things that are not traveling, fighting, camping and such wear are at home. No one can take them

TormakSaber wrote:

No, I'm not, but apparently you're allowed to kill me and spam pickpocket on my dead body until you get bored. ;)

Quote:

You cannot pickpocked someone more than 3 times a day.

I am not allowed to so your argument is wrong.

TormakSaber wrote:

Funny how it's cheating if I use DM powers to do it, but if you do the exact same thing with a skill and a PC widget... evn if you're a DM, and you get the same result? It's not cheating.

You are threatening to use DM powers as revenge for something another character did to yours within the bound of the rules. That character sacrificed skill pits in order to be able to PP, and they finally reaped the benefits.
If your character killed me and proceeded to PP me, that would be fair. If you RPd taking the item back, I would give it. But using your DM powers to strip e of all my items is cheating, unless you are willing to acknowledge that if someone kills you, you will use the same DM powers to give them every item you own.

So to address that, it is not the exact same thing - prove to me that in three tries I can take every item from your inventory with the Amia PP widget, and I will concede that point. Also prove to me how your character had to sacrifice skill points in order for you to be able to use your DM powers o take my items.

Yurell, please go back and actually read my posts. I can comment no further on your argument until you comprehend what I'm saying, and you're not doing so. Please go read them.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yurell, please go back and actually read my posts. I can comment no further on your argument until you comprehend what I'm saying, and you're not doing so. Please go read them.

1) You edited your post and posted again while I was posting;
2) You specifically said that you would use DM powers to get revenge;
3) I did read what you had posted;
4) My suggestion too is to make it impossible to take items.

At no point did I argue realism. If I argued realism for that, the next person would argue realism for the right to loot the PPers body. And the next person would argue realism or looting anyone's body.

I can see what you're saying you don't thin it's fair someone with ranks invested in a skill can use sad skill to remove items (either actual materials or gold) from your inventory.

Because no, it's not fair. Because you can't get them back. Why is there such a disconnect over this? You can take items, log off, and laugh at the person knowing they can never get their item back. Why is the pickpocketer allowed to do what is tantamount to griefing players under the thin guise of 'roleplay'? (And I do not call 95% of pickpocketing attempts roleplay, I am disappointed to say)

It doesn't matter if it's "just gold". You are still taking my stuff. YOU are taking MY stuff, but I cannot take YOUR stuff. This isn't about fair use of skills, this divide comes down to bare basics of "asshat/not asshat", IMHO.

Arguments aside and all that why is it asking so much to remove the ability to take items and just take gold. I don't think thats much and I really find the hatred over loss of gold pathetic. Sure it's 1 way thats sucks in some level but its -GOLD- and here's the kicker. You kill me and leave me dead guess what i'm losing time over -gold-. Now I havent pickpocketed in forever mainly because everyone in the game just ganks you for pickpocketing (Wide swath comment I know) is that realistic? Would you kill someone for swipeing five dollars off you? No, you'd most likely beat them up take them to court and they'd get fined.

Imo fix it all and make the penalty for fail last longer. PPers that fail get knocked over and can spam run away in a heartbeat (Had this happen in the Cordor East someone PP'd me fell down I attempted to RP and they bolted with no RP then logged once they got into south. Not that they got anything from me but still just bad form.)

Ah well it feels like this topic is going nowhere so I think i'll remove myself from it.

I find it funny that people get annoyed when others do not pay 5 gold tolls and other similar banditry/high way man rp. Yet they go bonkers if they are Pickpocket.

TormakSaber wrote:

Because no, it's not fair. Because you can't get them back. Why is there such a disconnect over this? You can take items, log off, and laugh at the person knowing they can never get their item back. Why is the pickpocketer allowed to do what is tantamount to griefing players under the thin guise of 'roleplay'? (And I do not call 95% of pickpocketing attempts roleplay, I am disappointed to say)

It doesn't matter if it's "just gold". You are still taking my stuff. YOU are taking MY stuff, but I cannot take YOUR stuff. This isn't about fair use of skills, this divide comes down to bare basics of "asshat/not asshat", IMHO.

First off, I am inclined to agree to all but the 'not fair' comment - that's why the one time my PPer was killed after PPing someone, I gave the gold back.

As for being fair, it is fair insofar that if we both have ranks in the skill we are bot equally likely to take stuff off eachother. If you have less ranks, you are less likely to do so.

Quote:

Now I havent pickpocketed in forever mainly because everyone in the game just ganks you for pickpocketing (Wide swath comment I know) is that realistic? Would you kill someone for swipeing five dollars off you? No, you'd most likely beat them up take them to court and they'd get fined.

Apples to oranges. IRL the guy who took 5 dollar sfrom you is likely just a punk, and you're not a person who has single handedly chopped down armies.

This is a fantasy world based of medieval times where thieves were often, yes, execute,d or had fingersand hands removed. Violence is a "realistic reaction".

Re: Pickpocket vs highywayman banditry: One is a consentual OOC action between players facilitating better roleplay. The other is someone walking up, taking your stuff because they can, and walking off.

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First off, I am inclined to agree to all but the 'not fair' comment - that's why the one time my PPer was killed after PPing someone, I gave the gold back.

As for being fair, it is fair insofar that if we both have ranks in the skill we are bot equally likely to take stuff off eachother. If you have less ranks, you are less likely to do so.

1: You may have, but it was not required, nor does everyone follow your shining example.

2: No. "Loot the bodies" may be the rogue's warcry, but I do not require ranks in Sleight of Hand to fin the loot off the orcs I just killed. I pick up their magic axe and pry the medallion off their leader's severed neck.

Tormak, sounds like you're flirting with RP-lite...(joke, don't kill me). But seriously, why should we remove stealing? If someone pick pockets you and gets away with it, I maintain the 'stealing happens, deal with it' line. One of my characters has been robbed like this a few times and I say more power to them, it's a big risk to take.

If you catch them and kill them then you should undoubtedly get the items back. So why not try the 'loot swag' idea or something? They key issue here seems to be that you can't get your stuff back if you catch someone, why not try and solve this instead of removing the skill?

As for losing gold, if someone swiped 100 or 200 gold off my char in a PP, I wouldn't even notice if it weren't for the yellow message.

For your point two, you are arguing from the position that 'bodies should be lootable'. So if I manage to kill someone in PvP, should I be allowed t take all his stuff? If I kill one of those nice NPCs, should I be able to take her items?

I would propose this: Make PP only take gold, make it work properly (as in, feats actually work and make it a rule if you're killed you have togive the gold back. Screenshot to be sure.
The alternative that I can see you aiming for is removing PP altogether. Which I would have absolutely no problems with, so long as those with PP get a rebuild s they no longer have ranks in a non-existent skill.

Quote:

If you catch them and kill them then you should undoubtedly get the items back. So why not try the 'loot swag' idea or something? They key issue here seems to be that you can't get your stuff back if you catch someone, why not try and solve this instead of removing the skill?

Yes, but nothing makes them give you the item back. NOTHING. Nothing but their own good graces OOCly.

Quote:

For your point two, you are arguing from the position that 'bodies should be lootable'. So if I manage to kill someone in PvP, should I be allowed t take all his stuff? If I kill one of those nice NPCs, should I be able to take her items?

If the killed PC agrees, and it is consentual (sub DM for the NPcs) then yes, looting can occur. The problem with pickpocket, the underlying issue with it, is that it 100% circumvents the need for any consent and dictates "my number is bigger than yours, so your stuff is MINE, no matter what. And you can't get it back."

Then why not introduce that into the rules? If you steal something and are killed by the person you stole it from, yo have to give it back? That way, it's DM enforceable.

Instead of leaving the exploitable mechanic and introducing a new punishment, I would rather remove the exploitable mechanic.

Or maybe we can just disable the mechanical aspect and turn it into the likes of persuade, bluff, intimidate, etc. Removes all the hassle of reporting and some such while still being able to use it as an RP tool. Consent from the pick-pocketee will always be required before you get to take an item and they will also have control over what they will give. If the pick-pocketee is generous enough OOCly, the pick-pocketer might have a chance to get something very valuable rather than just random gold or trinkets.

Frankly, I think it's a good RP tool and is best used as such.

@ Tormak's post

I would rather the former, but as I said previously (basically every time this topic is brought up

) - would those who have the skill get a free rebuild?

Wolfking6116 wrote:

There's also a long-stand 'bug' with that system. If you trade away the reciptes, it still makes you as having those take up space in your "Storage".

Not a bug at all. They are in your storage, you just trade the receipt. It's the same as selling your old garden chairs on e-bay. You can sell 'em, but that doesn't move them out of the lawn until the buyer collects 'em.

I assume the buyer doesn't buy the receipt to let his belongings stay in your vault, so he'll collect it sooner or later.

So no problem with the storage system then. Maybe the receipts can be made non-pick-pocketable in someway?

What if the 'loot swag' had to be approved by a DM or something? There must be some way to make the 'you got caught, give the stuff back' rule enforceable through game mechanics?

What if ALL stolen items (i.e.: the loot bag) were dropped when the character gets killed? That way the loot could be recovered.

Anyway. Pickpocketing.

A few caveats:

It's not a feat, and I don't think you can even leto the option away. So, really killing it off is not an option. There's no hook on it either, can't intercept or detect somebody using the skill in any way. -50% penalty is the best we can do. Are there any PP bonus items in the game?

If we disable the whole skill we get a lot of rebuilds. Bleh.

Options:

1. Job system. I don't think we should use the skill in any way if we go this route. You'd simply steal from a PC or NPC with the job log (or an item that allows you to stay hidden) and the job system itself would generate loot, XP, and inform the PC or NPC he's been stolen from on a failure.

2. Tweaking the current system. I can remake the PP widget in such a way that it only takes gold, or simply creates gold, random items, etc from nowhere. See above. Success would be determined by PP ranks.

We don't need to do a lot of rebuilds to get rid of it. Skills can be fixed with Leto. You got a clear number in PP skill on the screen, and you just assign the points elsewhere (as applicable for the character's class and level advancement) and you're rid of it.

The cons are, that it can fuck up a character file (which is why a backup would be needed) and that it's a big project. Should probably be a few projects, so the requests don't drop in all the time, but you gotta bring your rogue to be adjusted at a certain period(s) of time etc.

That would be the pragmatic approach to fixing characters, methinks. Rebuilds take far more time.

But I'm more for adjusting PP so that you can only take gold, though.

Dev Disco wrote:

Anyway. Pickpocketing.

A few caveats:

It's not a feat, and I don't think you can even leto the option away. So, really killing it off is not an option. There's no hook on it either, can't intercept or detect somebody using the skill in any way. -50% penalty is the best we can do. Are there any PP bonus items in the game?

If we disable the whole skill we get a lot of rebuilds. Bleh.

Options:

1. Job system. I don't think we should use the skill in any way if we go this route. You'd simply steal from a PC or NPC with the job log (or an item that allows you to stay hidden) and the job system itself would generate loot, XP, and inform the PC or NPC he's been stolen from on a failure.

2. Tweaking the current system. I can remake the PP widget in such a way that it only takes gold, or simply creates gold, random items, etc from nowhere. See above. Success would be determined by PP ranks.

It doesn't matter if there are items - the current widget ignores item bonuses AND feat bonuses. s there any way for it to just check your current PP modifier and add 50?

If that can be done, I would certainly support no. 2 (although I'm inclined to support that anyway).

Edit: Nekhy, what about Feats, such as skill focus PP? But I would much rather see it changed to take gold only and to actually taking these feats into consideration.

Well, I am not really sure. PP is notorious for being a horror on a PW server and a horror to change.

Generated items and stealing GP from the player is probably best I would say. There should be at least a little down side for the person on the receiving end. GP isn't that big a deal either.

Dev Disco wrote:

Well, I am not really sure. PP is notorious for being a horror on a PW server and a horror to change.

I don't know about dexterity modifier, but apart from that only base ranks are counted with the current widget. Any feat or item bonus you have is completely ignored.

I like the Chicken's thinking.

Dwagin wrote:

I like the Chicken's thinking.

It's usually very dirty, mind you.

I am opposed to catering to bad losers. There is absolutely nothing unfair about being pickpocketed, if you can't be arsed to invest in the proper skills to defend yourself (spot etc), it is YOUR OWN FAULT.

If I might suggest, leave it mostly as it is, but when using the PP widget, have a successful roll grant gold and xp, with the gold NOT coming from the "victim", but rather generated by the system (yes, coming from nowhere). On a "bonus roll", very low chance, have an item spawn in the pp'ers inventory from the loot bin appropriate for the level of the character (excluding perhaps the highest bins), possibly still working with the same 5 pound limitation. Perhaps a chance at a mythal or crafting component as well, much like the existing loot system.

This would add more "value" to the skill for those who invest in it, would not force a rogue to take the Thief job just to do what they should be able to do anyway (leaving them more open with what they can choose from the job system, as it was intended), and would eliminate the one-way access to people's inventory (since anything rewarded would be coming from the system, not the victim). And hopefully, it wouldn't require too drastic of a coding effort, since it would work within the existing system.

Alternatively, leave out the item part if it'd be too hard or too unbalancing, and simply up the gold value rewarded significantly. Again, from the system though, not from the victim.

Jan wrote:

I am opposed to catering to bad losers. There is absolutely nothing unfair about being pickpocketed, if you can't be arsed to invest in the proper skills to defend yourself (spot etc), it is YOUR OWN FAULT.

Not every build has the skillpoints to spare, you know, and I think what's being disputed here isn't the fact that you got pick-pocketed, but rather that it's a one-way transfer of item or even gold.

Jan wrote:

I am opposed to catering to bad losers. There is absolutely nothing unfair about being pickpocketed, if you can't be arsed to invest in the proper skills to defend yourself (spot etc), it is YOUR OWN FAULT.

Yeah, and I'm opposed to catering to griefing, which is what PP is. lol I take ur stuff bye.

Jan wrote:

I am opposed to catering to bad losers. There is absolutely nothing unfair about being pickpocketed, if you can't be arsed to invest in the proper skills to defend yourself (spot etc), it is YOUR OWN FAULT.

You misunderstand completely. The concerns are not about "losing", they are about the disparity between PPing and say killing someone. Why does one grant you access to another character's inventory and not the other?

New (?) pickpocket rules

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