This is a new thread for my old guide, because the other one is cluttered with too many unconstructive replies.

DM quote here -



Don't do it! If you have something constructive to post about something that could be added here, or something I could word better, let's hear that constructive feedback! But do not, I repeat, do not, spam this thread with your, 'i wont rp with child characters!' nonsense. Make your own topic for that. I let the other topic get out of hand, and I will be actively requesting DM's to delete posts on this one before that happens. If its fallen down the list though, dont be afraid to just bump it for newer people to see.

Finally! I sincerely hope this guide continues to be useful and helpful.

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I like the guide, and heres my question...

"What do you do when you are killed by the armored (full-plate) buffed towershield/bastard sword wielding child and he spits on your corpse to make you look 'weak'?"

"Is this seriously legitimate?"

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EDIT: Strike 2 in as many days, Opustus. Stop.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

What age qualifies as a child for which race, and if you find a child character above that age. What do you do? Make a screenie and report it? And would it be valid to completely ignore such characters in role play.

If there are child characters that have DM permission to be of high level, how do we know that? If there is such a case.

And shouldn't they be forced to indicate their age and race in their character description. I've encountered to many questionable situations.

IIRC you don't need DM permission at all to play a level 29 aasimar kiddo. Hence why this thread appeals to players to think about what they are actually doing.

Yeah, you don't need permission, but 100% of the DMs and 99.9% of the playerbase will cringe and want to gouge out their eyes whenever they see you.

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Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011

Demigod toddlers won't get any DCs from me. That's a certainty.

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Krimmor Nurad ~ Master of Greed

I completely disagree. I foresee huge problems with this suggestion of yours when, or if, at that matter, a small community of frequent child players comes to Amia and the Cordor area. Before I get to the specifics I would like to speak my mind. Now, I am not "Hating on children" and what not - Just know that what you read is an opinion, nothing more and nothing less. Do not take it for more than it is. Be patient in your understandings of what I have written and then perhaps make a response.

First off, when I think child. I think three year old toddler waddling through the kitchen swinging a bottle of milk around, whilst screaming because he doesn't want help with his one size fits all strap on shoes. I realize that in a more "medieval" time period such as Amia, children would be more seasoned to combat and bloodshed at incredibly young ages. So young in fact, that it would be impossible to conceive of such a time, nowadays. However, as a suggestion from my professional recommendation of roleplay:

Some problems we can begin to see in no particular order.

Background
Adult Acts of "Discipline"
Childlike Behavior, Age, Maturity
Statistics & Leveling

Background
Ok, now we can go back to the quote seen at the top of this page. It has been forever suggested that in order to be a good roleplayer and to have a good and well seasoned character, you must have a fitting and deep background. Now, we all have a different perspective of what are "fitting" standards of roleplay are, so keep in mind that this is through my standards. It is not law nor code or anything like that. Just what I believe is correct.

A background in my opinion is essential, however I foresee some serious conflictions with child RP'ers and the people of Cordor "dragging kids back to the oprhanage." Looking past what's happening here and seeing what's -really- happening it becomes clear that there is average people and kids in the same area. As long as there is a Roleplay server there ~will~ be that sad sod who wants power. Not that power is bad, I just think it is bad to be gained instantly. Children will be the victims of such power grabbed by complete strangers in the streets of the city. This directly points to Adult Acts of "Discipline"


Adult Acts of Discipline
The second mister power wants the opportunity to take it upon himself as a sub-guard-like manner there will be 15 "goodie-goodie" pedestrians (who are actually epic level sorcerers) to tell him that he is committing the felony of "child abuse" or "minorary harassment." So here we are. The conflict of the day. 15 people on one talking punishment for child harassment. The truth is.

1. I am that person to be "pissy about children being dragged off to the orphanage"

2. I am also that person to be "pissy about people even suggesting that "child harassment" is a real crime."

There will soon come not only orphans but actually fathers and mothers, whom may pay tribute to the original customs of raising children back in a "medieval" setting. By this, I am referring to beating your child for him to listen, for smacking him around in public, for what appears violent acts, but to the parent is simply their method of discipline. Gangs of "Goodie-good-goods" are soon to be keen on child "beatings" and improper acts of parental teachings and discipline. My main point here is that I believe parents should have the right and full alleyway to treat their kids however the Bhaator they want to, without groups of "good" people to shoot them down. However, I also believe with this power of parenting it shouldn't be extended to anyone claiming parenthood and it's earned power and rightfulness, and dragging orphans to the orphanage because they shouldn't be out, etc.

Childlike Behavior, Age, Maturity
In my perfect persistent world children characters would act as children do, but not anything like the children of today. When I view Amia, 85% of the players who are adults act like children of today. I believe this is the way it is due to inexperienced roleplayers, and inability to grasp the wheel of seeing through the eyes of maturity on a video game level and setting. If children were to commonly roam the world of Amia the only way to distinguish them from any other in game player would be a description, portrait, and avatar whilst in game. Ideally, children should act like children. Not like adventurers. Not like guards. Not like scientists. Not like adults. All of this and the appropriate actions of children should be assessed by the players abiity to roleplay well and to grasp that maturity.

To be play successful on any roleplaying server, you must always be mature. Even when playing an immature character, it is essential that you still remain mature OOC and in reality through the game itself.

It is debated that maturity, for the most part, comes with age and personal experiences. Through this acquired knowledge it would be a fair assumption in my opinion to say that most children should be mature. As mature as, perhaps a well rounded 16 year old nowadays by the age of 10-13 year old in my "Amia standards".



Statistics and Leveling

I am completely against high level child characters. In fact, I believe it so unbelievable that I would make it so that the "child" (for humans [actually halflings] as a starter) is a subrace, and that their stats all be reduced to 6's or 7's. After such, make it impossible for them to level up. This way, no matter what the case a child will never, ever be able to take down an adult in say a sword fight, or a wrestling competition. It reigns down the reality of "Hey, yeah you are just ten years old. You can't even carry full plate." A level 1 subraced child will never be able to defeat a level 1 adult fighter, and under these circumstances the players who do take children subraces will go in willingly, knowing that they are ready for some hardcore RP. Unfortunately, I don't think this is even possible.

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So in the end, what am I saying? Yes: In my perfect world, with my perfect setting, with perfect players I would have children. In Amia, there is no chance. I vote no. And give my recommendation for child characters to simply not be played. Allowing child players to freely roam the worlds would result in a manner of seconds, groups of them going out to "explore the mines" and actually just go grind on kobolds and goblins.



And that is all I have to say here. I won't be responding to any posts made on this thread. If you have a problem by what I have said or are going to reply with a two sentenced burp of frustration. Don't bother. Any queries or further suggestions - send me a PM. I would be happy to express my views furthermore on the messaging system of the forums.

~Tessalar

I second the irritation concept on the 'goody-two-shoes' factor. Why is it that people will step in threatening violence and destruction on the pretense of laws that they do not know exist when the personal space of a child PC is threatened but will not bat ab eyelid for the safety of those poor wretches in South Cordor?

Consistency is one of the biggest issues child characters face. If people are not going to care about NPC children then it boarders on meta-gaming to rush to the aid of PC children. If someone is going to play a child chaacter then it is obscene for them to develop a perfect vocabulary due only to the fact that they are being derided by another character.

The biggest one is far as I'm concerned; if you have a child PC, remember that they are living in an adults world. If a super evil character kidnaps your child PC to sacrifice in a foul ritual, DO NOT play the 'I'm a child PC' you can't kill me card. What is more evil then sacrificing a poor little kid?

Following on from that; as far as children being in the military in medieval times, yes it happened, but not as front line fighters. Children were used up until the Napoleonic Wars, but only to carry gunpowder and almost exclusivly on ships. Seriously, would any Armorer or Weaponsmith who wanted to be taken seriously make functional armor and weapons for kiddies? Would any general who wanted to win send children to hold together infantry? Or maybe the My Little Pony Cavalry? No powerful kids
! You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...

Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin

Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.

the_incognitos@live.com

Most people tend to ignore that because, like few other things, it's part of module design / the 'setting' that a player can't directly affect with an ending result effectively. (IE, no matter how many times you try and dissuade the Southie Kids from prodding the borderline-destructive clockwork, the NPCs will still be there doing it in 4 hours)

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Mostly Retired

This is ironically amusing to me. I was made a DM because of my "child" character. 'Course, there's more to the story...but there often is when you stop assuming and rp with people.

Judgement should be reserved for *after* determining that something is absurd. And at that point, ignore/avoid them, like you would *every other absurdly rp'd pc out there* (of which there are many many more, than there are of child pc's).

Suffice to say...I received more than enough tells from people I'd never even said hello to (ic or ooc), whining about my "child" pc, to make me quite annoyed by these rants.

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Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

He's referring to the epic children, and you have the best reason to have a child-like epic character on the server.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

What Tormak said. I just can't stand level 30 children who can't speak common with remotely proper grammar, yet can summon dragons and toss hellballs. "I no like you! You mean! *hellballs*" and the like.

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Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011

Normally I make it a point to never edit another DM's posts.



Tormak

RE-EDIT BY KJETTA: Bah, I only meant to say I think Child PCs are extremely difficult to play. This looks far too dramatic.

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To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!

There's some posts in here that have given me some ideas on rewording, and updating my guide, thankyou very much to everyone who kept this discussion on topic and relevant, I really appreciate it. As soon as I have a minute, I'll sit down and add/revise.

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Make sure you add a "Think it through first" option to your guide.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

i think child characters should only be allowed to go epic if they only take bard, and take epic persuasion, and only dump points into persuasion.

I mean really, when a kid goes alllll googely eyes on you and asks for something, who has the heart to say no? (unless they're ugly)

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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words

I do. A kid needs to learn their place and who has the money.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

There are bad child characters. There are also bad drow, elf, dwarf, paladin, faerie, barbarian, monk, wizard, etc. etc. characters. There are also good versions of each. Before you clamor to kill all child characters with fire, know that there are some good ones, and that someone else finds your favorite class/race/style to be the worst thing on Amia.

Maryn, I appreciate your work on putting together a short guide to attempt to improve a small part of the playerbase. I wish I could see more helpful player-made guides and tips for various character types.

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I have a large seashell collection which I keep scattered on the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.

I guess number two could actually expand more on that, in point of fact. Thanks!


and, your welcome Cobbit. I'm glad you like the guide. Do you have any suggestions on improving it?

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The way I see it, a child can be a great rogue lvl 30. There are many street children that steal you penniless using a knife. Their fingers are small and would do well with removing traps, with taking your bag of gold from your pocket.

But, I cannot see children casting high levels spells that would consume the energy of an adult. I bet it would make this child faint after using any spells of a higher level and be unable to move for a long while with pain all over his/her body.

I cannot see a child using swords either. Maybe a small dagger, but never ever good enough to beat a high level adult. A child that is a fighter lvl 30 able to kill an adult man that is a fighter lvl 30, do not make any sense at all. First, it is physically impossible. The child do not have body mass, muscles, strength or even when he is fast, I would just get him by the collar and shake the hell out of him/her. I think it is like any other character, it needs the player to think a bit on what he is doing. Oh, I grew up among wolves and now I can kill you. No, you cannot, you better bring your entire pack and maybe they can.

However, at age of 14 I think a child becomes stronger, and many fighters have conquered things at that age in History, in legends and in D&D novels. You have being training all your life with a wood sword, you have your conviction, you need to become a hero, you are more flexible than most adults, so dexterity based classes for fighting will do well. Maybe you even learned how to hide in the shadows already. But, definitely you are still not able to use powerful spells that consume the body and the mind of a mage.

The way I see caster, for you to master all the energy to create a spell like hellball, you need to be affected by it. You should at least get dazed. I think maybe we could even leave all spells with their full power, but daze the mage using it for a couple of rounds. Because that is how it happens all over the world of magic. You dont see mages throwing spells like crazy and laughing and running as if their body were made of pure energy. Unless they are a dragon, an outsider and such and even those need to rest after a really high level spell. Imagine a child?

It is all a question of good sense and of course of reading books. Books are great for inspiration.

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Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

According to the PHB, a human is adult at 15. I think most child chars are in the 5-11 range.

But I cannot stress enough Maryn's point of having the fact that you're a child in your bio ... once my character had to kick out a child char mid-hunt, and the player was awfully annoyed at that.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Yes, we clerics and knights once sent a child away from the temple of Kelemvor and it caused the player to get hurt and a bit mad at us. But, what cleric of Ilmater would allow a 10 years old to fight against the Black Caravan? I wouldn't and does not matter the fact that that child was hunting in the Abyss. I cannot go along with it, it is just bad role playing. Now, that child could be distributing food, helping around the camp and paying attention in the adults to learn. Pages are like that I think.

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Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

Wouldn't you assume that a child in the Abyss was a daemon or something trying to fool you and kill it? I think I would(IC that is, I'd never go to the Abyss in real life).

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Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...

Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin

Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.

the_incognitos@live.com

Maybe 3rd level. Maximum.

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~Sharess on AmiaWiki~
Priestess, politician, prostitute
"[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer Bolt
AmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)

Anything that can kill a goblin without a pile of magical equipment or very favourable circumstances, ain't a child in my opinion. Just please for the sake of sanity, keep your child character's HP and Str as low as possible.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Agreed. Even at level 2 or 3, the child can be a relatively decent pickpocket or thief against commoners, and possibly some of the less-bright adventurers. There's no way an eight-year-old should be as good or better at such adventure-style tasks as a man who has been working all his life to improve his abilities.

Just because it is a mostly mundane class does not make it A-OK for child PCs to be super awesome in it.

Also, if you're a level 30 child, when you grow the PC into an adult, there's no room for improvement. You've effectively peaked your character at eight-years-old. You're pretty much saying that you've learned everything you needed to ever know in second grade, and there's nothing else you need to know.

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I have a large seashell collection which I keep scattered on the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.

Cobbit raises a really excellent point with character development. I had a child character pickpocket at one time, and I seriously toyed with the idea of taking extra levels for pickpocket, and things like that, and asking the DM team to lower my stats and HP's manually. In the end I decided against it exactly for the reasons Cobbit stated. Give your character room to grow.

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Too many different posts to respond with comments to:

@ Tormak: That's my point. Too often nobody bothers to LEARN about the character or the rp involved, and just jumps at "Child character: KILL". I got SO many tells from people I'd never heard of/seen before, on Crystal. If they knew even the smallest of details about her, maybe they'd have thought different.

@ Cobbit: Your post way up re: bad everything else as well is DEAD ON. I have seen far fewer badly played children, then badly played [insert ANYTHING in Amia here]. Especially when I was a DM.

@ people who mentioned age: These "anti child-character" rants/threads never seem to include anything about age, ever. Even I'd agree that there should not be any epic 5 year olds. My Crystal (currently level 21 sorc) appeared to be somewhere between 10-14. I left it open, and the key word is "appeared". Not to mention, I've seen 18/19 year olds who looked 12-14. I work with a few, actually. I am 31 irl. 20 and under is a child, in my eyes.

@ Rogue children. It takes 30 levels of rogue to even have a *chance* of pickpocketing a commoner, on Amia. (look at all the pickpocket complaint threads for details). Also, pc's have skills to invest in to defeat pickpocket attempts (spot). If the pc doesn't have any spot, then no matter HOW epic the character might be, there is no reason why a child shouldn't be able to pickpocket them. And with Amia's pickpocket system, it doesn't take hella points in spot to prevent pickpocketing attempts, since pickpocket skillpoints from items don't count. So I have no issue with a level 30 rogue 10 year old.

@ Character development: Half the pc's in Amia are age ~20ish. They still tend to be that age whether they are level 3, or 30. A lot of people don't put much effort into the age of their pc's, nor into the aging process. There's nothing particularly wrong with that - this isn't the Sims. But nobody ever seems to care about that, unless it's a child pc.

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Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

Well, to be fair, Amenia was a child when she came to Amia by elven law (she still actually has three years to go). But I could get away with that because the rate at which elves mature.
Only Qirlan cared .... got kidnapped to Winya twice

When it comes to aging, all my characters age. Al my characters are elves, so even if I play a month = a year, I still have a few decades IRL to play with.

That said, child characters aren't a problem for me per se - it's just when you see those 6-11 year olds bashing ogres and PvPing that one has to wince. I think it is best if one finds a child character that one reacts as one's character would. My evil drow finds a child in an area she can't steal it? It will be ignored. My kind Salandran? She'll help it.
That said, a child character hunting is ruining suspension of disbelief for everyone involved.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

You worded this really well, and I would just like to add on a few tidbits. In my opinion, Amia thrives because it is so relaxed, and big enough to generally let everyone do their own thing, within reason. That said, don't be offended if a player chooses to avoid your level 30 child hunting in the Abyss. It's not personal, at least for me it isnt. If anyone, no matter if it's a child character, or something else inplausible, I'm not avoiding you because I don't like you as a player, I'm avoiding you because your style of roleplay is compromising to my immersion in the setting. That said, if I run in to something like this, I will not refuse to roleplay with you, it just means I won't seek you out. If someone feels this way about any of my own characters, it's not going to offend me on an ooc level. Everyone has their own styles of play, and levels of hard-coreness and immersion, and I won't tell anyone how they must roleplay these things. As I will avoid those who compromise my immersion in the setting, I expect those who feel that I do the same to avoid me, for the sake of fun for all.

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Bump! Remember to read the original post before replying.

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