AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Languages

Just something that has become a small matter sometimes, and makes me want to understand it better...

What languages would my wizard have access to? Are their certain languages she might not be able to learn? (Drow hand sign, Druidic, etc.) How many could she learn? For example, the number of drow and Duergar running about Tarkuul, could she not pick up Drow, Dwarven or Undercommon?

Right now, I simply have her understanding and speaking with Common, Draconic, and Elven, for the simple magical link to elven and draconic, but, What else could she learn? (I've also got some OOC gruff for responding to people speaking in these languages OOCly, as if I shouldn't know them.)

I've heard plenty of different things from different people, such as only bards can learn new languages, you get 1 + 1 for each int mod, all the way to you can make up your own languages and it doesn't matter your scores, you can learn them all anyways with RP (an argument I find a bit off, as I could not see someone with 8 INT that struggles with common speaking 10 languages)

Any house rules on this? Maybe something I missed in my forum pokings...

On Amia every commoner speaks at least draconic and abyssal.

"You start at 1st level knowing one or two languages (based on your race), plus an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus."

So, a dwarf would know dwarven + 1 language (probably common) + 1 / int mod.

http://dnd.wikia.com/wiki/Speak_Language

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Languages list of languages plus pnp rules

http://amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23855 discussion of the languages

The rule states you can have a language per int. modifer but what you should follow is common sense.

Eg. some street rat coming just off the boat from Luskan probably can't speak Sylvan but might know thieves cant.

Depends on character background really. Though obviously many languages (like drow) are ought to be rare and not spoken by the general populance.

Edit: Yes as Mango said the langauges available also depends on your race.

PHB-wise, you automatically know Common and your racial language for free. You also get to choose a number of extra languages equal to your Intelligence modifier at level 1. These must be picked from your list of class- and race-specific bonus languages. Wizards get to learn Draconic, Clerics get to learn Abyssal, Celestial or Infernal, Druids get to learn Sylvan.

In the 3.5 Realms, you choose a character Region. These regions represent where your character is from. Characters from Region A know Common and the automatic languages of Region A for free at creation. They can pick bonus languages from the list of bonus languages in Region A, if they have 12+ Intelligence at level 1.

Later on, PCs can learn new languages by purchasing ranks in the Speak Language skill. This is elaborated in the PHB. You will obviously have to come into contact with the language to learn it. This isn't limited by your race, region or class, though. Nothing stops a Dwarf from the Spine of the World from learning Chultan during his adventures. He just can't do it at character creation.

To clarify some common misconceptions: your Intelligence modifier doesn't restrict the maximum amount of languages you can learn during the campaign. Nor does it grant you free languages during the campaign. It only determines how many Bonus languages you can pick at character creation.

There are some secret languages, the most obvious being Druidic. It cannot be learned by non-druids, as it's never taught to outsiders. I'm sure there's some bright guy who now wants to go make a druid PC and teach the language to others, so let's just assume it's supernatural and therefore cannot be known by non-druids even if they try to learn.

Drow Sign isn't Drow-specific. However, it's not available to most other people as a regional bonus language. I also doubt other races would be capable of learning it perfectly; they would add their own unique twists to it. However, Chitines have Drow Sign as a bonus language. Besides, it's probably not much more advanced than real life sign language. So yes, it's a language you might be able to learn, but probably never quite like a Drow would; mostly because of different body structure, for one.

An example: A Cormyrean Druid with 14 Intelligence knows Common, Chondathan and Druidic automatically. (I think Druidic is free.) At creation, he may also pick two of the following: Damaran, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Turmic (Cormyrean regional bonus languages) or Sylvan (Class-specific bonus language). Later on, he might move to the North and desire to communicate with the Dwarves in their native tongue. He can do this by purchasing one rank in Speak Language at level-up. That grants him knowledge of a new language, one that he can pick freely from the list of languages that aren't secret. (RP-wise, he obviously needs means to study the language.) Because he is a Druid, however, Speak Language is a Cross-Class Skill for him. Therefore he needs to spend two skill points in Speak Language to learn Dwarvish. This applies to every class but the bard (AFAIK): only bards have Speak Language as a Class Skill, hence the confusion about only bards getting to learn languages. Anyone can do that, they just have double as hard a time as the Bard.

Not to clutter my post any more, I'll make another one.

A wizard is likely to learn the alphabets and languages of powerful, lost civilizations. Imaskar, Netheril, Narfell, Raumathar and the Shoon Empire are typical objects scholarly and magical interest. To study the works of Halruaan or Thayan wizards, he might want to know Halruaan and Mulhorandi. By knowing Elven, you know the Espruar alphabet which is used in many other languages as well.

Personally, I try to keep the languages my PCs know to a minimum, so I can reasonably have them learn new ones when they actually have reason to. Even if there is no upper limit, it's pretty lame to know 15 languages unless you're an incredibly dedicated scholar. For a well-educated individual, I imagine ~5 is pretty reasonable, though.

Right now, there are no hard rules governing languages on Amia, though. If you want to go by the PnP rules, good for you. No one's going to ban you if you don't, though. Do try to stick with the spirit of the rules, even if you don't follow them to the letter, and keep your known languages within reasonable limits.

SRD wrote:

Humans: Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.

Dwarves: Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon.

Elves: Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.

Gnomes: Automatic Languages: Common and Gnome. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc. In addition, a gnome can speak with a burrowing mammal (a badger, fox, rabbit, or the like, see below). This ability is innate to gnomes. See the speak with animals spell description.

Halfelves: Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic).

Halforcs: Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.

Halflings: Automatic Languages: Common and Halfling. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, and Orc.

Not applicable to Forgotten Realms, though. Region determines which bonus languages you can pick, and also grant a free second language to humans. (To demihumans, it's usually their racial language, but to humans, it's their regional human language.)

An almost complete and up-to-date list of regions can be found in Player's Guide to Faerûn.

What about a Shadovar? Would they get a Shadow Plane specific language or would it be Infernal? I've always gone with Undercommon and Common for Shadovars due to the peculiar Amia specific nature of their race. What do the rest of you think?

That was always my biggest fear in deciding how much she should know, to come off smelling like cheese for knowing too much, guess I need "Playing a wizard with 40+ INT for dummies."

Being an overachiever is hard, and unfortunately I have to learn what she needs to know to have that intelligence (I rate myself at about a 14-15 on a good day :lol:

), so, I take a fair amount of pride in that. I'm sure someone who had 42 would know almost everything, though...

Having started out with 20 INT, she'd have 6 to start with Common, Halruaan, Netherese, Draconic, and a few others for starters, but if I could take Speak Language and max it out, she'd have 16 more to learn, which could quite possibly cover all the languages I've seen spoken on Amia.

Maybe I should start a journal of language studies, learning other languages would be a lot more fun then guessing what my Wizard should know, instead of just going, "I know this this and this, and all languages because I am this smart, and that insult in your native tongue, yea... have fun replacing your head *Boom*

But, a good base of languages to start from would be nice

The Shadovar speak Netherese, obviously. Shade Enclave is a Netherese city that was isolated from other cultures for centuries, so their version is probably pretty authentic. Bonus languages are Damaran, Chondathan, Draconic, Elven, Loross ("high Netherese", AFAIK) and Thorass (ancestor of Common).

DMs tend to smack down ridiculous language choices, btw. If you're a half-orc born in Cordor and got INT of 8 (or lower), you don't know Animal, Draconic and Drow, no matter how you claim to know them.

Animal is not a language.

Xalyth wrote:

I'm sure someone who had 42 would know almost everything, though...

I think it only counts your base modifiers.
Anyway, there's always the tongues spell.

Minding that tongues is PnP and requires consent from all involved, and you kno, the ability to actually cast the spell if you intend on using it.

Languages are pnp too.

TormakSaber wrote:

Animal is not a language.

I'm glad someone spotted the joke there!

languages are already accepted by everyone as part of this server. dont give the PnP crap, plz... languages are good for the server, we dont need anyone explaining why languages should be consent to use all PnP crap just because they are proving a point.

TormakSaber wrote:

Animal is not a language.

Yeah. Uh, no joke. Pay attention to what Tormak says. Every time someone types "(Animal) I'm your friend! Don't eat me!", a little part of me dies inside.

Last edited by Magiros on Tue, May 05 2009, 21:47 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Well I use Druid PnP spell: Speak with Animal.

Honestly saying I dont bother to tell to other player how he or she should reply to me. He or she desides themself how they do it. THey either emote or just say what they mean.

One reason why I allow them to do [Animal] is that, for some people emoting might be harder than just saying what the "animal" means. I for one suck at emoting. Thats why I dont do emotes very much.

Thought I would like one "animal" to emote and then hopefully say in tell what my druid could "read" from their behavior..

Here is the spell:

Quote:

Speak with Animals
Divination
Level: Brd 3, Drd 1, Rgr 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level

You can comprehend and communicate with animals. You are able to ask questions of and receive answers from animals, although the spell doesn’t make them any more friendly or cooperative than normal. Furthermore, wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.

Magiros wrote:

Well I use Druid PnP spell: Speak with Animal.

Honestly saying I dont bother to tell to other player how he or she should reply to me. He or she desides themself how they do it. THey either emote or just say what they mean.

I suggest having the consent of all involved before using any speak with animal spell.

Then spell descripthion says I can speak with animals. Therefore I dont see anything wrong about them using [animal].

Also the spell name already says what I am gona do. Speak with Animal. No matter what way the "animal" char player chooses.

I suggest using a tag like [SwA] or something then, just for my personal sanity and everyone else ivnovled, so no one thinks you're "speaking Animal'. >.>

Actually, it isnt me whom is speaking the language. The spell allows the caster to understand the animal. Whether or not is it barking or just emoting, trough that I should be able to read what it is "saying" Thought as said in the spell, the animal can trick the caster and not "tell the truth"

I use the spell like I speak common but the spell turn the words to the animals "language" allowing it to understand common, if the animal chooses to answer it speaks its "language" which is translated to the caster in common or in caster's language.

Hope that made sense.

Just to make it more clear.

Only the caster understands the animal whether it "speaks" or "emotes"

The animals around the caster understand the caster, when he or she speaks.

Btw, just a side note. I have asked from DM am I alowed to use this said spell and the answer was yes. As long as I sacrifice spell of equal lvl.

Regional Languages.

Quote:

Btw, just a side note. I have asked from DM am I alowed to use this said spell and the answer was yes. As long as I sacrifice spell of equal lvl.

You must get permission in *every situation*.

TormakSaber wrote:

Animal is not a language.

Exactly! Also, for those talking about using the tag "[Animal]" when using the spell "Speak with Animals", there is -no- point in using it. Why? Because the spell magically allows you to understand an animal, it actual talks to you. Secondly, because you're not growling/howling/grunting/whining at the wild wolf in the forest, you're speaking whatever language you speak, Common, Hin, Elven, Dwarven, Drow, Gnomish, Sylvan, Druidic, anything, and -that- is magically feed into the animal.

Druidic is for Druids, not your sneaky uber character so please don't try and pretend you know it. If you really want to be cool and know it, get it cleared by a DM like you would a platinum coin character. I too treat it "magically unteachable/learnable" for that very reason. For those who do get it cleared by a DM though, don't think the Druids will take kindly to you knowing it. That can be a death wish if you let it be known to the wrong Druid.

Any chance of getting a sticky with all the races base and available bonus languages on it plus a list of others and their purpose. I'd do it myself except that I don't know the lore involved.

Something like that seems like a natural addition to the Subraces sidebar and the entries therein, as well.

What if you're playing a catgirl? Are you allowed to speak [Animal] then?

Rawr.

I have a small question to ask.

As far as I've always been taught, Drow Handsign was never taught to non-drow. Is there any possibility of a non-drow learning handsign?

Granted you're smart enough, and observe it long enough, you should be able to learn it eventually.

Don't forget Tongue of the Sun and Moon! Great ability that.
As for languages, I grabbed the job 'linguist' and used to have bard to represent my character's learning ... I think she knows one language more than her base + int modifier would otherwise allow.

Still, I think if you go through the hard RP work to actually learn a language you should reap the reward no matter how imperfectly.

Edit: I'd imagine a non-drow learning Drow Handsign is about as smitable as a non-druid learning druidic.

I never bought the "only a Drow can learn Drow handsign" arguement. There's only one dialect to learn here: Amian Drow Handsign. Different body build? Seriously? Like.. Really? It's not like drow have a 3rd arm and 8 fingers that make Handsign that different.

I have no issues with a nondrow knowing handsign.

]Of course, years ago, I played one (Nathan), the DMs knew, and had no issues with it, but that was then and this is now, I suppose, but I see no reason why there shouldn't be some degree of consistency.

TormakSaber wrote:

I never bought the "only a Drow can learn Drow handsign" arguement. There's only one dialect to learn here: Amian Drow Handsign. Different body build? Seriously? Like.. Really? It's not like drow have a 3rd arm and 8 fingers that make Handsign that different.

I have no issues with a nondrow knowing handsign.

]Of course, years ago, I played one (Nathan), the DMs knew, and had no issues with it, but that was then and this is now, I suppose, but I see no reason why there shouldn't be some degree of consistency.

I agree that it should be quite possible for other races to learn DHS or DSL or whatever other abbreviations people tend to use.However, I also believe that teaching it would be as taboo as a druid teaching a non-druid druidic.

tormy can non druids learn druidic then?

Oh, sure, probably. Same for Drow itself.

I don't see why non-druids shouldn't, otherwise there wouldn't be a special addendum for the druid entry in the PHB regarding not teaching other people druidic ... it would be kind of superfluous as a rule if it were impossible for non-druids to learn.

So, it's like non-druids cannot learn druidic... during character creation, right?

I'd say you'd want to PM a DM with a very good history justifying tat if you want it at first level, if they don't just say "no" outright.
And a druid teaching a non-druid Druidic falls just as surely as a paladin slaughtering an orphanage ... so if you do the RP to learn it I'd expect the DMs will be harsh on the druid teacher.

But ten again, both those points are he decisions of DMs, I can only state my thoughts.

Im a big fan of the common + your base race language +1 language for every +1 you get from intel.

Drowsign can be learned by non drow IMO

Theives chant is known to all rogues and bards on creation, you can learn it if you take the rogue or bard class later.

If i see a Druid teaching a non druid Druidic i will smite them with the fall item in an instant.

Most scrolls and such are writen in runes which can be decifered by mages in general if arcane, clerics in general if divine and rogues if they have a high enough UMD cant read them but can work out how to activate it without all the knowledge required.

Mages can work out what a divine scroll is with read magic spell and clerics can work out arcane scrolls in the same manner, but not use them.

Animal is not a language and speak with animals only alows you to understand the specified animal and that animal to understand you, it speaks gibberish to anyone else but sounds like common to you, you speak common to anyone else that can hear but the animal hears it as its normal gibberish.

I have more to add about wildshape but my lunch break is over. also if ive forgoten any secret type languages feel free to remind me and ill give my two cents on that.

Crowsterf wrote:

If i see a Druid teaching a non druid Druidic i will smite them with the fall item in an instant.

Thank you! And if Willow sees any Druid trying to teach it, the wrath of the Silvanus will be felt! ::stab! stab! stab!:: :twisted:

Note: Your breaking a Druidic oath if you do so kids. You might be asking yourself, "Whats that mean to me Gunz?" It means you cease being a Druid.

I don't like the idea of only getting it from intelligence. It takes a lot of RP to learn a language ICly, and while intelligence is gained readily enough by wizards, classes that traditionally know a lot of languages (e.g. bards) kind of get the rough end of the stick for that one.

In lieu of a Speak Language skill, however, intelligence is the best limit we have IMO, but I really don't like it as a restriction.

Yurell wrote:

I don't like the idea of only getting it from intelligence. It takes a lot of RP to learn a language ICly, and while intelligence is gained readily enough by wizards, classes that traditionally know a lot of languages (e.g. bards) kind of get the rough end of the stick for that one.

In lieu of a Speak Language skill, however, intelligence is the best limit we have IMO, but I really don't like it as a restriction.

It sucks but I can't think of a better way to go about it. I haven't heard anyone give a decent suggestion in replacement either. Look at the bright side, Bards can still use the "Tongues" spell if they ask for permission and be able to understand and be understood by speakers of any language.

I like to think that the INT bonus limitation applies only during character creation, after which you are free to learn as many languages as your character's heart desires.

I'll compile the lore links when I get home into the link thread and add them to the wiki.. maybe along with Iron's lengthy piece about the PnP rules:)

blackvswhite wrote:

languages are already accepted by everyone as part of this server. dont give the PnP crap, plz... languages are good for the server, we dont need anyone explaining why languages should be consent to use all PnP crap just because they are proving a point.

Actually, we do need somebody explaining why you need languages to me. I think it's a waste of time, a cheap way to be a snob (o, you can't be with our crew... and look mum, I diss him without hands!), and invariably used to frustrate other people.

If you are a dude you and your friends expand Drow or whatever so you can speak it ingame. Now, that I'd find cool. Just stating "I speak Drow and you don't understand me" I find utterly lame.

That's all my personal opinion, of course.

Half the time I've emoted speaking non-common, it's been to one other person, while others were not even around.

It's flavour, and to help get more into a character. Not much different than being someone like Frey who uses lots of "thou" and "thee", for flavour. And it's something that helps make different races actually *BE* different from each other - an aid in preventing everyone from being differently shaped/sized humans all the time.

I'd compare it to the ability to customize ones armour. Is it necessary? No. But where's the fun in having 50+ people all dressed exactly the same.

Flavour. RP spice. That's what languages are to me.

I'm in Australia, so when speaking Norwegian you gain a sense of privacy that seems complete. Of course, a Norwegian person could pass me and my friend on the street or overhear our conversation on the tram, but it's highly unlikely. A PC who knows an exotic language should be able to use it in the same way. Is it annoying? Maybe. But the choice you make when you speak Norwegian in front of Aussies in Australia says something about you, and that is interesting to me.

The "Thee" and "Thou" stuff is very nice. Just like the "Naut" spelling that comes with Drow, or the Dwarves that do some low brow Scottish. That I like a lot. Just emoting you speak another language seems a bit like rolling a die to see if you gave a nice speech without giving the speech itself. Cheapish.

That aside, most often it isn't used as fluff, but as a way to keep people out of a conversation. The most infuriating version is putting [Drow] in front of what you say on Cordor Square and then cry "Metagaming!" when somebody who apparently can't understand Drow reacts. Huuuhhhhh, that's so ... well, can't find the right word for it.

Languages - How many can you learn?

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