I'm not 100%, but i think that was it. I don't think the Monk levels get you as high AC shifted as they used too, though i might be getting confused with another server.
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
I won't waste my time with building one, it's going to be getting fixed soon from what I understand. Monk stuff won't transfer into your shifter shapes anymore once that's done. I, personally, can't wait for that to happen.
Joined: 26 May 2006 Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
amia57 wrote:
No monk mixing? Wow, that is harsh. Druids are really not going to be very good anymore. Not that they really were to start with.
If you see druids from that one lense perspective, yeah they're going to be pretty crap for you. Druids have other avenues: they're good support characters with their spellbooks. Not to mention they can summon an elemental that resurects itself 4 times, have an animal companion that in the hands of a level 30 druid is quite scary in its own right and a smart investment in animal empathy, you've got a potential walking army.
I assure you that druid/monk/shifter or druid/monk/CoT or any other form of druid/monk with dragon shape from a mechanics perspective is so dirty I feel like wanting a shower every time I hear about it. It's people who abuse that horrid, filthy combination that have blown away the classes options for improvement.
With that off my chest, the epic dragon shape had it's claw enhancements reduced from +6 to +4. It was also established that so long as druids of lawful neutral alignment kept cross-classing with monk for the wisdom AC bonus, no changes would be made to the shapes.
With the server voting in favour of the wisdom bonus AC feat only applying in the original form, shifters and druid shifting feats will get a vamp up. It takes time and hasn't been implemented yet... don't rush them.
Joined: 18 May 2005 Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
Silvarus wrote:
And how is monk/druiding not doing it properly?
Elistists.
_________________ "Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
Druids dont really need to take monk...its just too good to pass up if you want to use wild/elemental shapes for anything other than RP all the time. Unarmed attack progression doesnt hurt either
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
Silvarus wrote:
And how is monk/druiding not doing it properly?
Elistists.
I'll assume you meant elitist. How is it elitist to say that the druid class can stand on its own just fine without needing to go the cheese monk route?
Will the Dragon Shape get an un-nerf with the changes then? I mean, just how good is DS for a pure class druid theese days? From what I understood, everyone and their grandma would have a +5 weapon by that time so the DR is worthless (If I understood it right that its down to +4/40 something), and +4 claws wont go through any stoneskin/premonition/shadowshield spams etc.
I will still get DS for my druid because its too cool to miss, but I do seriously doubt its practical value. For a pure class druid that is.
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There's nothing wrong in the RP of monk/druid. To my mind, it's a perfectly sensible combo. That Eldath thing is bollocks, too: Eldath is one of the nature deities that cannot have druid/monks (as per the One-Step Rule, though I'd ignore it myself), because she is Neutral Good.
Silvanus, Akadi, Istisha, Grumbar, Kossuth (if you let the four have druids), Ubtao, Nobanion and several Mulhorandi deities are legit choices for Druid/Monks. Pure monks can worship any deity. People who think that because Eldath is the only one with a documented monastic order in the books, she is the only nature deity who has or can have individual monks or entire monastic orders, are reading the books wrong. That's not what it means. The few monastic and paladin orders listed in FRCS as examples aren't all there is in the Realms.
Indeed, I hope to see more well-played Druid/Monks on Amia once the changes take effect and it's no longer a cheese build. There's grand RP to be had, there.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Ah, so it has been nerfed after all.
What are the current nerfs, and after the has been taken out of the cheese build catagory what will the restrictions be then?
I cant seem to find anything on the Dragonshape nerfs in the forums.
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
IronAngel wrote:
That Eldath thing is bollocks, too: Eldath is one of the nature deities that cannot have druid/monks (as per the One-Step Rule, though I'd ignore it myself), because she is Neutral Good.
That's actually true. I think the confusion came with the fact that Monks are thought very highly of within the church of Eldath and are actually a part of Eldaths clergy. Which is odd for a nature deity as only Eldath and Chaunteas churches consider Monks actual clergy among the human deities. The thing is though, Eldath Monks are not allowed to multiclass >.>
I honestly think that if druid/monks were made to not be effective as is, all the RP stigma for "Omg, druids can't be monks and monks can't be druids" would stop. Thing is, until these changes happen (What /are/ they?) monk/shifter is just about the easiest path to usefulness for them.
But in all seriousness, I'll be so glad when the shifterchange happens, so my druid/shifter/rogue is actually viable other than being quaint and slightly naive.
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I think it's fun how people keep saying Eldath is the only druid deity that allows her followers to take monk levels.
I haven't seen a single other class that do this. Monk/Sds or whatever, i've seen plenty of.. or classes that cant' be multiclassed without loosing the ability to get new levels in it.
If you're fighting a monk/shifter dragon then don't fight him if he's shifted, or get 'im flatfooted.. just like you don't stand around quietly while you wait the GSed mage to nuke you to smithereens.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, they won't be existing much longer anyway, since the system is getting worked up, to bonker them. (Shifters will get better, monk shifters will get worse. Not going to say what I personally think of that, as it'll totally highjack the topic)
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
What are the current nerfs, and after this has been taken out of the cheese build catagory what will the restrictions be then?
Currently there are no nerfs. Eventually shifter/monks will lose the wisdom bonus to AC after shifting.
_________________ Jehran- Elven Enchantment Wizard Prink- Jehran's Familar Joe Bloggs-Just your average guy Madock-Vassal of the Black Hound. Vanassidur-Druid/Ranger of Mielikki
*any* polymorph will lose wisdom AC, not just druids, but obviously the druid/monk combo notices it the most.
just a questions about this: Is it going to impose an AC penalty equal to your Wis mod or is your wisdom going to be set to 10 whenever you shift, the second way, while potentially easier would completely screw up a druids spell book every time they shift.
_________________ Jehran- Elven Enchantment Wizard Prink- Jehran's Familar Joe Bloggs-Just your average guy Madock-Vassal of the Black Hound. Vanassidur-Druid/Ranger of Mielikki
RDD's are another matter completely because they get stat boni which won't go away when they are deleveled.
Hence why DM's always tell people to make a new char if they would want to redo a char with RDD levels.
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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Soo.... I doubt druid/shifter/monks get a free rebuilt after this major nerf, do they? (*coughs* can't hurt to ask, please don't smite)
Pardon my dickishness, but why would anyone want to rebuild? Most monk/druids I know of have sworn on their mother's grave that the monk levels are crucial to their RP and have nothing to do with mechanical gain.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
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Kjetta wrote:
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Soo.... I doubt druid/shifter/monks get a free rebuilt after this major nerf, do they? (*coughs* can't hurt to ask, please don't smite)
Pardon my (censored), but why would anyone want to rebuild? Most monk/druids I know of have sworn on their mother's grave that the monk levels are crucial to their RP and have nothing to do with mechanical gain.
They were for both of mine. Until i found out that nugget of information regardig Eldath and stopped playing both of them.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
When RDD was nerfed, they were actually given a free rebuild (or, to be precise, everyone with RDD levels was -forced- to rebuild in order for the nerf to take effect).
A form-focused monk/druid might want to rebuild to monk/druid/shifter -- retaining the monastic druid RP but changing the combination of classes to remain viable in light of the changes.
Mr Mago wrote:
When RDD was nerfed, they were actually given a free rebuild (or, to be precise, everyone with RDD levels was -forced- to rebuild in order for the nerf to take effect).
I believe it was stated -- although I can't find the quote -- before that a difference between now and with the RDDs is that there are so many players it wouldn't be practical to do so.
Part of the reason to the RDD nerf was because one third of all characters pretty much had RDD levels.
Ravena 31 August 2005 wrote:
People(primarily people who aren't rdd's), have been suggesting changes or alteration to the classes forever.
However, with such a large portion of the player base BEING rdd's, its just...
Not gonna happen.
Ravena 31 August 2005 wrote:
When the changes where being done I know RDD was brough up. I can sense it.
But it didn't get changed. the sheer MASS of rdd's sort of prevents this...
Dev Disco 01 September 2005 wrote:
It seems in par with the SD and Monks changes. I do not care too much about rules or powergaming, but the sheer amount of wings in Cordor gives me the feeling I live in a chicken run. A bit of a requirement might help putting us mammals in our rightful nr 1 position again.
PaladinOfSune 03 September 2005 in Announcements, wrote:
After the overwhelming support people showed in favor of changing the RDD class (Warhaven's topic), the DMs got together and tried to think of a way to balance the class, and hopefully make it no longer a class that 1/3 people of the server play. We considered making a level requirement of seven bard/sorcerer, but the inherit problem with that, is that it's not balancing the class at all - it's making them far stronger. Instead, we decided to change the bonuses they get.
Right now, RDDs gain for 10 levels:
+8 Strength +2 Constitution +2 Intelligence +2 Charisma +4 Armor AC Immunity to Fire/Sleep/Paralysis
We are changing it so they instead have:
+4 Strength +2 Constitution +2 Intelligence +2 Charisma +2 Armor AC 50% Weakness to Cold Immunity to Fire/Sleep/Paralysis
We believe this is a more effective way than actually putting on any restrictions on choosing the class, just like we have avoided with Shadowdancers and Monks.
Every RDD will need to rebuild with very few exceptions, and it will be free of charge. However, we are not doing rebuilds yet. The changes I have mentioned are not active at the moment - next update they will be in force.
Secondly, we are also giving Devasting Critical a level requirement (we are NOT disabling the feat), but the details of that will be announced later.
So, yeah, basically... there were a shitload of RDDs back then.
Before a class change or nerf, in order to improve the balance, there's usually the same paranoia of things getting out of control due to the change and dozens of negative side-effects being speculated and argued.
Usually, that's not how it turns out once the change/nerf has actually been implemented.
We recently had a prime example of that, with the "nerf" to the high end caster summons.
According to some people, the world of Amia would rip apart and vaporize into oblivion due to those nerfs, but a week after they were put in, pretty much nothing was heard.
Well...nothing has really changed with respect to the summons. The high end summons just suck even more than they used to compared to PCs and taking EDK became much less of an attractive option.
People dont bother saying anything because it doesnt matter what their opinion is on the matter any more. If the DMs dont want to change it, it wont be changed. End of.
Last edited by Blackdragon12121 on Mon, May 04 2009, 17:29 PM, edited 2 times in total.
So.. not to take away fuel from that particular fire, but what sort of improvements are we looking at, shifter-wise?
Also, I think this is a more fun topic to discuss than druid/monks, so I'll answer this.
We're looking at pretty much 100% overhaul. The shapes will ptrobably remain the same appearance wise, but stats will change, and it's my hope that we can cement each shape into a "class role" better via stats, skill bosts, items, feats, etc.
For example... the wyrmlings, I just made a post on this last night. In my concept, the Red and White wyrmlings are "damage cannon" shifts, the Black wyrmling acts as a mini sneak/rogue, the Green is a more defensive dex based tank, and the blue is a more defensive con based tank.
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