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The Incognitos
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 Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 6:38 AM |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Is Improved Unarmed Strike useful for shifters?
what about weapon focus in unarmed strike?
or
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 6:43 AM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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No, and no. When you're shifted, you're not actually unarmed - you are wielding a creature weapon, so you don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.
The engine can't quite make up its mind about that, so it lets Improved Crit(unarmed) and the Monk unarmed BAB progression work, but you won't get Weapon Focus or Devcrit to work when shifted.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 6:46 AM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Can't still see why those WM levels are a necessity but! Going Paladin/WM-only pre-epic gets you +1 BAB, going Paladin 16/Monk 4 bags you some lovely skill points and saves that will help you level up earlier, but it also gets you an annoying XP penalty. Yarp, I'd go Pally/Monk/Ftr too, but hey ho. I assumed Dahlya wasn't going to be cheesy and kit Daniel out in fullplate until Monk3 came along, so I put it in first so she didn't have to worry about it and could wear cloth from day one, which also bags the sexy BAB progression.
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 8:27 AM |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Uberuce wrote: No, and no. When you're shifted, you're not actually unarmed - you are wielding a creature weapon, so you don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.
The engine can't quite make up its mind about that, so it lets Improved Crit(unarmed) and the Monk unarmed BAB progression work, but you won't get Weapon Focus or Devcrit to work when shifted.
hmmm... what feats to take then? Knockdown, Imp. Knockdown? Blindfight? Expertise? need some good generic stuff for pre-epic shifter
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Ts_
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 8:42 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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The Silent Whisper wrote: At the moment my drow is 10 druid and 12 shifter. Will your master plan still work? Ts_ wrote: For this to work with your current setup, you would have to have 12 Shifter levels and 1 CoT level (or any odd number of Cot).
And you still cannot be evil ... For a non-evil drow, here are the fixes:
If you started with WIS 18 but didn't take Great WIS on the level 21 feat, then it is easy to fix. Delevel to level 20.999 and take Great Wis for the general feat. Then go Druid 10/Shifter 16/CoT 2, take as many great WIS as possible. Shifter 16 gives you Dragonshape on the last level.
If you started with WIS 17 (that is, you already took great WIS on level 21) , you have a slight problem. Delevel to level 19.999, take CoT 1 for level 20 and Great WIS whenever you can in epic. The goal is Druid 9/Shifter 13/CoT 6.
If you don't mind delevelling, I would suggest taking Druid 9/Shifter 10/CoT 1 in pre-epic anyway. You can take Druid 10 in epic then and go for either of the above combinations. Your saves will simply be a tiny bit better (+1 Fort, +2 Reflex, but -1 Will), I think.
Big important note: To take CoT you also need a Weapon Focus in a melee weapon (not ranged, not unarmed). If you don't have that yet, you need to go back to level 17.999 at least to take that pre-epic feat!
Hope that helps!
Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
Last edited by Ts_ on Sat, Apr 25 2009, 8:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 8:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Uberuce wrote: No, and no. When you're shifted, you're not actually unarmed - you are wielding a creature weapon, so you don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity.
The engine can't quite make up its mind about that, so it lets Improved Crit(unarmed) and the Monk unarmed BAB progression work, but you won't get Weapon Focus or Devcrit to work when shifted.
I so wish it did...
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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aurelius311
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 18:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: hanging on.
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aurelius311 wrote: quick question for my hin sneak rebuild. just need some fine tuning advice.
which do you guys think is more useful of the below options?
(FYI: damage dealing so far - 12 STR, weap spec, 10d6 sneak atk)
Choice A) 5th fighter level in epic, bagging EWS, and 1 additional epic feat (crip strike, epic prow, KD, Imp sneak)
Choice B) 7th SD level in Epic, getting me access to 7 SD store, slippery mind, and 2 additional epic feats (crip strike, epic prow, KD+IKD, Imp sneak, 2x Great DEX)
So there's two options, but then in each option, there a feat choice or two to make as well. Thanks in advance for any guidance, I appreciate it.
No one has any thoughts on this?
_________________
"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Apr 25 2009, 18:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I'd go with the Fighter, honestly. 7th SD gear isn't that awesome, IIRC. You can always buy better DC stuff or remove the restrictions with DCs, if you have them. And rightfully, the gear should be available to other sneakers as well, but I'm not sure I'll ever get my way. *grumble*
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 4:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Uberuce wrote: I would go Monk3, then 16 levels of Paladin, then a last level of Monk at 20, pre-epic. That gets you the Monk AC before you start levelling seriously, then the GMW+5 and all day Pally buffs as soon as possible, and then the Monk4 tops up Tumble.
Then I'd take the last Pally level, just for more spell duration, then WM7, with the Monk5 and Monk6 coming in at levels 22 and 27, again to keep Tumble topped up.
Wait, what?
Too much information. ^^;
By the quoted above, you mean the last Paladin level at 21, then Monk at 22, WM all the way, Monk 27 and WM to the end?
Or by that you mean level 30 being the last paladin level?
I think it's the former, but I am just checking. ^^;
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 7:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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I think he means: Level 1-3 monk, level 4-19 paladin, level 20 monk, level 21 paladin, level 22 monk, level 23-26 WM, level 27 monk, level 28-30 WM.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 8:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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The former, and Opustus' post are right.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 8:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Supposing I go 7 Fighter instead of 7 WM, what would be the build? The same?
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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AmianPlayer
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 9:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: GMT+2
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The Incognitos wrote: AmianPlayer wrote: Okay, I think I need some help here. I don't care much about the build of the character, but I don't want to spend my (precious?) time leveling up to 30 and then having to rebuild simply because it "s@cks"... That happened already once, so I'm asking for the experts' advice  I'll present the basic statistics and then ask a few questions :-p What I have here is a lvl 7 PC (6 rogue levels and 1 assassin level). STR:10, DEX:17, CON:12, INT:16, WIS:10, CHA:10 HP:43 SAVES : Fort=+3, reflex=+10, will = +2 Base atk bonus : +4 feats that might interest you : weapon finesse, weapon focus-short sword, stealthy. skills : MS, hide, dis. trap, set trap and open lock +15, search +13, tumble +13, UMD +9 (ability bonuses included) That pc will be Role played as an Assassin. ( famous class around here, I guess?) About the skills : I'm doing my best to max the hide, move silently and the other classic rogue class skills. (locks & traps). What would be an "acceptable" skill rank for, say, hide? about the feats, I'm going to take both ambidexterity and two-weapon fighting, when the opportunity arises. Quiz : what's a "good' AC bonus for a PC wielding two swords? How about the Hit points? I've heard something about "max HP" and it's got me confused :-p Sorry for the long post, but as you already know, the assassin class has a competitive role IG and I wouldn't want to make -a lot- of rebuilds later on. So, what do you propose for a PC that will manage to survive on this island we call amia? Are you going for the hallowed Epic Dodge? Are you taking Improved Two-weapon fighting? (that extra off hand attack can be very useful) Actually extra question... is Improved Two-weapon fighting worth taking if you'd have to get it at Epic level? For the epic dodge feat, I'll have to take some great dexterity's as a pre-req, since it requires a dex of 25 +, right? Avoiding the first attack every round sounds good :-p
But is it worth it? I could take other feats instead of the great dex and dodge to boost the character's atk bonus or damage. (would that be useless against a pc with epic dodge, since they would simply avoid my "buffed" attacks?)
I was thinking of taking 2 or 3 levels of fighter, just to get the necessary two-weapon fighting feats.
And no, I'm not taking the SD class. Think I'll just lvl up to epic assassin, leaving rogue and any other class <=10 lvl.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 10:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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BlackDahlya wrote: Supposing I go 7 Fighter instead of 7 WM, what would be the build? The same? I'd go Monk4/Pally16 same as before, then take the four Ftr levels, then Pally, Pally, Monk, Monk, Pally Pally. Finishes Monk6/Pally20/Frt4
Stats:
STR 12
DEX 16 (Chultised the 18), raised to 25, Great DEX to 26 or 28
CON 12
WIS 14
INT 10
CHA 12 (Chultanised to 10)
1 Ambi
1 TWF
3 Weapon Finesse
6 Weapon Focus:kama
9 Improved Crit: kama
12 Improved TWF
15 [optional]
18 Blindfight
21 Great DEX; Ftr1 Epic Weapon Focus
22 Frt2 Armourskin
24 Weapon Specialisation; Ftr4: Epic Weapon Spec
27 Great DEX
20 Great DEX
You could also take Epic Fort/Discipline in place of the two Great DEX feats, but that's the PvP tweak and I suspect you don't give a toss?
More radically, you can ditch the DEX-base and go for a STR/CHA split with Divine Might/Shield, but that's pretty hostile to Chultan's adjustments, and I don't know if it'd work for Daniel's RP. Is he a dainty fellow or a slugger?
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 11:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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I might just as well forget Divine M. and S.
Although it's possible to get 12 Dex and 10 Cha modifiers with those stats.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 14:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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My brain won't let them go so question: Best Rakasha icemaker build and is it amia viable, also best halfling axe throwing dev crit build?
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 16:54 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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I'm working on a svrf rak right now. 18 drd, 10 shifter. 17/11 if you wanna throw in dragon take that last shifter lvl later on when you have the reqs. maximize and empower are good too.
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Ts_
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 17:45 PM |
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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blackvswhite wrote: I'm working on a svrf rak right now. 18 drd, 10 shifter. 17/11 if you wanna throw in dragon take that last shifter lvl later on when you have the reqs. maximize and empower are good too.
Don't think that build gets Dragonshape, even with the +2 stat bonus. 15/13 should do the trick though, and it wouldn't lose any Ice storm power compared to 17/11.
Of course, the new forms will change Rak spellcasting drastically, anyway ...
Regards
Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 19:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Uberuce wrote: BlackDahlya wrote: Supposing I go 7 Fighter instead of 7 WM, what would be the build? The same? I'd go Monk4/Pally16 same as before, then take the four Ftr levels, then Pally, Pally, Monk, Monk, Pally Pally. Finishes Monk6/Pally20/Frt4 Stats: STR 12 DEX 16 (Chultised the 18), raised to 25, Great DEX to 26 or 28 CON 12 WIS 14 INT 10 CHA 12 (Chultanised to 10) 1 Ambi 1 TWF 3 Weapon Finesse 6 Weapon Focus:kama 9 Improved Crit: kama 12 Improved TWF 15 [optional] 18 Blindfight 21 Great DEX; Ftr1 Epic Weapon Focus 22 Frt2 Armourskin 24 Weapon Specialisation; Ftr4: Epic Weapon Spec 27 Great DEX 20 Great DEX You could also take Epic Fort/Discipline in place of the two Great DEX feats, but that's the PvP tweak and I suspect you don't give a toss? More radically, you can ditch the DEX-base and go for a STR/CHA split with Divine Might/Shield, but that's pretty hostile to Chultan's adjustments, and I don't know if it'd work for Daniel's RP. Is he a dainty fellow or a slugger?
Tormie told me I can use the fighter levels instead of the WM, but I feel dirty. T_T
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 19:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Ts_ wrote: blackvswhite wrote: I'm working on a svrf rak right now. 18 drd, 10 shifter. 17/11 if you wanna throw in dragon take that last shifter lvl later on when you have the reqs. maximize and empower are good too. Don't think that build gets Dragonshape, even with the +2 stat bonus. 15/13 should do the trick though, and it wouldn't lose any Ice storm power compared to 17/11. Of course, the new forms will change Rak spellcasting drastically, anyway ... Regards Ts wait a minute! you can still get dragon on 18/10! druids have it as an epic feat too along with any necessary great wisdoms!
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 19:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Tormie wants to molest half-feline barely legal women dressed as schoolgirls; don't go listening to him.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 19:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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@ Ruce
ROFL
XD
I was going to use the first suggestion, anyway. The one with WM and without DS/DM. :p
Thanks for the assistance!
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Ts_
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 21:07 PM |
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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blackvswhite wrote: wait a minute! you can still get dragon on 18/10! druids have it as an epic feat too along with any necessary great wisdoms!
Bonus feats with 18 levels of Druid? :)
Start with WIS 20, +7 makes that 27, epic feats at 21 and 24 and 27 make it 30. No more epic feats (in particular, no epic feat on level 28).
*is a great WIS counting expert*
Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 22:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Ruce, despite the high dexterity, Weapon Finesse is not available in the first level, nor is Weapon focus, the next feat in the list of which feats I should take.
What do you suggest?
EDIT: Someone suggested Paladin first, to be able to get Weapon Finesse first. But then I would probably need to throw the three starting monk levels to 2, 3 and 4, and go back to the original sequence.
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Xalyth
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Posted: Sun, Apr 26 2009, 23:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
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I have the current Feats, I am looking to pick one more Pre Epic
Extend Spell
Empowered Spell
Maximized Spell
Greater focus in : Evocation, Necromancery, and Enchantment
Greater spell Penetration
Not sure if I should pick Silent spell, to have more castings of some spells at one level higher, or Quickened spell, Does quickened spell work as described, or does it still not work right?
Anyone have any other suggestions perhaps?
_________________
I sleep with the Libris Mortis under my pillow.
---Carstina Blackweave---
Speaker of Tarkuul
Headmistress of the Magisterium Mortis
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 0:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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A question on class, nottso much build: How are the durations of the added blackguard spells determined?
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 0:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Falling Spider wrote: A question on class, nottso much build: How are the durations of the added blackguard spells determined?
I think they're all Turns/BGlevel, except for Un-holy Avenger, which is rounds/BGlevel. Can't remember though, but The Avenger is deffinately Rounds/BGlevel.
EDIT: Darkness is Rounds/BGlevel and Deeper Darkness is double the duration of the normal Darkness.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 2:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Hey hey now why'd we forget about the halfling axe throwing dev critter?
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 3:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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AB for throwing axes isn't determined by strength. You'd have dev, but you'd also have terrible AB.
However!
A halfling dex ranger/rogue/fighter with handaxes and bane of enemies, though, can pump out some very nice damage at a Very high AB, in my experience.
Besides that, they're hilarious.
_________________
Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 5:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Drow bard (chaotic Evil) any ideas? I've been trying to be an archer and just finding it not to my taste but bards in drow society down there are kinda rare and I might enjoy that. Plus bards seems to be a versatile class I just dun know how to play one. (That doesnt mean RP one)
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Swallow the Stars
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 7:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Location: Southeast (USA)
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BeautifulLie wrote: Drow bard (chaotic Evil) any ideas? I've been trying to be an archer and just finding it not to my taste but bards in drow society down there are kinda rare and I might enjoy that. Plus bards seems to be a versatile class I just dun know how to play one. (That doesnt mean RP one)
From 1 - 20, go pure bard. Then, from 21 to 28, go bard.
And.. if you're feeling like you just can't pure class, toss in four fighter levels for epic weapon spec.
_________________
Espiel Callahan
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 8:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Champion of Helm wrote: BeautifulLie wrote: Drow bard (chaotic Evil) any ideas? I've been trying to be an archer and just finding it not to my taste but bards in drow society down there are kinda rare and I might enjoy that. Plus bards seems to be a versatile class I just dun know how to play one. (That doesnt mean RP one) From 1 - 20, go pure bard. Then, from 21 to 28, go bard. And.. if you're feeling like you just can't pure class, toss in four fighter levels for epic weapon spec. Nyet, 3 BG. 25 bard is an Important Bard Landmark.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 10:22 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Falling Spider wrote: A halfling dex ranger/rogue/fighter with handaxes and bane of enemies, though, can pump out some very nice damage at a Very high AB, in my experience.
Besides that, they're hilarious. DEX without Epic Dodge is a bigger fumble than STR without Devcrit, in my Humbledore.
Ranger will get away with it better than most because of the pet and Bane, but without them, you're pretty toothless.
For Devcrit ranged, you really need something to beef up AB. Arcane Archer works, although not for hin of course. Barbarian is okay, but I'd go for Zen Archer Cleric or Paladin. There's no wasted stats there like there is with DEX for AB.
On a quick sketch of initial stats, A Strongheart can get 18STR and 16WIS without being silly and go Cleric26/Ftr1/Rogue1 for three bonus epic feats, get Over, Dev, Armourskin and have three ability feats left over so you can get the full Cleric spellbook.
Oh, I forgot: Pally can do the same thing, only instead of taking Great WIS as Cleric23/26, you take two of Over/Dev/Armourskin and take Great WIS as general feats. I'd be inclined to take Cleric, since you're getting all that WIS anyway; might as well use it for spells.
Last edited by Uberuce on Mon, Apr 27 2009, 12:51 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Shrewd
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 12:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2005
Location: Sydney
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What's the go on 'Epic Prowess'?
Worth taking? Piece of crap?
Also, if it were a tossup between Epic Prowess, or Fav Enemy (1 Ranger)?
_________________
Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.
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StandingBehindYou
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 12:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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Marauth wrote: Also, if it were a tossup between Epic Prowess, or Fav Enemy (1 Ranger)?
If possible I think it would be better to use the ranger level to take Epic Weapon Focus, but between those options, I think Epic Prowess is better.
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Shrewd
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 12:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2005
Location: Sydney
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No focus. Lots of changing weapons. 
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Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 12:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I know, but I know what it's going for so Not Telling! You're Smelling! La La La!
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Shrewd
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 13:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2005
Location: Sydney
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Well, that gives me a good idea.
Favored Enemy: Ruce.
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Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 13:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Probably depends on how many ranger levels you have, how epic feat deprived you are, and the over all build?
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 14:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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so 25 Bard 3 BG, uhm any stat specifics? Im at a loss, how do you make a bard a powerfull character to solo with if need be but more importantly group friendly? Are there specific feats? Should I be trying for Dev Crit/Epic Dodge? Or just pure dmg output and cha? *Lost*
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 14:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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18 CHA then merry bushels of STR. Bard25's cannot be anything but friendly to a group. Making it unfriendly when you have Lasting Inspiration can't be done - the very worst that can happen is you'll party with a Bard26-30, and in those cases, you're still a perfectly valid DPS chap and another source of buffs.
Last edited by Uberuce on Mon, Apr 27 2009, 17:58 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 15:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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So long as you have curse song, bard song, and perform, you're fine.
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Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 17:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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So, i'm planning to make a Svirfnevlin(+2ECL). The build i'm going for is an Epic Dodging Rogue/Fighter/WM, Dual wielding Kukri's.
Possible starting Stats:
STR - 14
DEX - 16 (18 w/Sub-Race)
CON - 14 (Reduced to 10)
WIS - 8 (Raised to 10)
INT - 14
CHA - 8 (Reduced to 4)
Anyone got any experience with a build like this on this Sub-race?
EDIT: I put the CON to 14 and for some reason it was lowered to 10.
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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 18:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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That's because gnomes start at +2 compared to humans, then the smurf adjustments boot that to -2, so it's a loss of 4.
I gave up on trying to fit Epic Dodge, Crippling Strike, Knockdown, Blindfight and real dualwielding onto Frank, so he cheats and uses the Galdorn's Legacy. I won't go without Knockdown as a native feat, for Shapechange purposes.
Frank's human with not ECL hike, so I dunno if you're going to get it all in there.
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Acrid
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Posted: Mon, Apr 27 2009, 23:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Location: Amia
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BeautifulLie wrote: so 25 Bard 3 BG, uhm any stat specifics? Im at a loss, how do you make a bard a powerfull character to solo with if need be but more importantly group friendly? Are there specific feats? Should I be trying for Dev Crit/Epic Dodge? Or just pure dmg output and cha? *Lost*
Ive personality did a lot of research to get a decent Bard drow but didnt found anything good enought for my tastes.
Everybody here will say Bard 25 minimum.
Personaly, i think Bard 20 is good enought. After all its 1 AC difference and couples of skills points, but so much to gain with theses 8 more lvls.
Well, drow it's spell resisted, i dont think greater dispelling can do much unless vs a mage with use mord.
I know Bard 20 / BG 4 / Fighter 4 is the best a 20 lvl bard drow can give.
-With dev crit, you will only get either divine shield or divine might, still have blind fight, extend spell, cuse song, BG requ, WF EWF, lasting inspiration but no Armor Skin
AB will be no higher than 54 and AC at 70 max (divine shield include).
- I was personaly heading the non-devcrit way before i switch server and didnt made the char. It have both divine shield/might, blind fight, extend spell, curse song and armor skin, along with BG requ, lasting inspiration, epic prowess and Great STR l.
AB will be 56, AC 72. So its way better vs Pale master and undead alike. Oh also better vs fortitude guys who have dev crit (wich mean: a dev crit build is statisticaly weaker than a non dev crit build as he have less feats, unless the guy your facing dont have fortitude save at all).
Remember that Bard 20, 25 or 30 make NO difference on the AC side when you are using Divine Shield (according the fact that you already have Mage armor, Haste, Bard song and that charisma modifier is around 9) since you will be hitting the 20 AC cap.
ED: and you wont need all that perform in your equipement so you can more easely buff AC, STR, CHA, fortitude and discipline.
RE-EDITED: ..many times.
Done editing.. _________________ 
By Jaydn
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Tue, Apr 28 2009, 1:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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How'd you do your starting stats and would I be putting all BG and Fighter levels in pre-epic? or like 3 fighter pre-epic and 1 in epic?
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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maglorine
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Posted: Tue, Apr 28 2009, 1:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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2k8ste wrote: So, i'm planning to make a Svirfnevlin(+2ECL). The build i'm going for is an Epic Dodging Rogue/Fighter/WM, Dual wielding Kukri's.
Possible starting Stats:
STR - 14
DEX - 16 (18 w/Sub-Race)
CON - 14 (Reduced to 10)
WIS - 8 (Raised to 10)
INT - 14
CHA - 8 (Reduced to 4)
Anyone got any experience with a build like this on this Sub-race?
EDIT: I put the CON to 14 and for some reason it was lowered to 10.
I've made a couple and your problem here is that Svirfs have wizard as favored class. Make one with two base classes and no wizard? Well, you need to balance them then or you get hit with another xp penalty on top of the +2ECL which is Epicly painful I can assure you.
You need 13 rogue minimum to get Epic Dodge.
You must take Epic Dodge on Lvl 27 which is your last Open Feat slot.
This means you must have Rogue 13 also at Lvl 27
With Kukri you are probably looking at WM5
That's a total of 18 levels spoken for, leaving you with 10 for Fighter levels.
Working backwards, you would have to be R10/WM5/F9 at 24th, then get your last 3 Rogue levels thru 27th, netting you Epic Dodge. Last level would be fighter. This scenario minimizes the double XP penalty duration but STILL results in a double penalty from 25th-28th. That's a long ugly haul if you are doing it the hard way. If you have DC's to run the last few levels then go for it, otherwise I'd say go single class plus a prestige class.
If you deviate from R13/F10/WM5 it's gonna get worse. For my Epic Dodge build I went Rogue/CoT but never finished him.
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Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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StandingBehindYou
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Posted: Tue, Apr 28 2009, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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BlackDahlya wrote: Ruce, despite the high dexterity, Weapon Finesse is not available in the first level, nor is Weapon focus, the next feat in the list of which feats I should take.
What do you suggest?
EDIT: Someone suggested Paladin first, to be able to get Weapon Finesse first. But then I would probably need to throw the three starting monk levels to 2, 3 and 4, and go back to the original sequence.
EDIT x2: You don't have that problem if you use the Monk 6 / Paladin 20 / Fighter 4 build he suggested!
In my opinion, for whatever little it is worth, taking Epic Weapon Specialization is a perfectly valid way of mechanically representing having mastered a weapon. Also, if you go the Monk 6 / Paladin 20 / Fighter 4 route, you could use your extra pre-epic feat for Extend Spell or something.
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Acrid
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Posted: Tue, Apr 28 2009, 2:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Location: Amia
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Bard 20 / Fighter 4 / BG 4
STR 18 -> 26
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 16
Pre-epic: Bard 15 / Fighter 1 / BG 4
Bard 1 Power attack
B 2
B 3 Cleave
B 4
B 5
B 6 Curse Song
B 7
B 8
B 9 Extend spell
B 10
B 11
Fighter 12 WF longsword and Blind Fight
BG 13
BG 14
BG 15 Divine Shield
B 16
B 17
BG Divine Might
B 19
B 20
Fighter 21 Armor Skin and Great STR l
F 22
B 23
B 24 Epic Weapon Focus
B 25
B 26
B 27 Lastion Inspiration
Fighter 28 Epic Prowess
Skills: Discipline 31, Hide 5, Perform 30, Tumbles 30, UMD 10 and about 30 to 40 more points where ever you want. But i always put a minimum of 1 in spellcraft so i can use equipement and craft stuffs.
AB will be 42 unbuffed
AC 50 unbuffed
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By Jaydn
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Apr 28 2009, 3:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Divine Shield is wasted on a bard, and the build doesn't get you 18 cha for the coveted extra level 6 bard slot for Mass Haste, nor does it hit Bard 25. Your duration is passable, and you get Lasting Inspiration, but if you're running a drow, you'llreally be happier as a 25/3 than the 20/4/4, IMO.
Quote: But i always put a minimum of 1 in spellcraft so i can use equipement and craft stuffs.
Be wary of doing this: With no spellcraft, it means getting hit with Curse Song/Prayer/anything that lowers your skills won't affect your saves. Adding in one rank suddeenly means you take a -15 or whatever to your skills and bam, you've just lost 3 to your saves vs spells.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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