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Mr Mago
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Posted: Fri, Apr 17 2009, 18:48 PM |
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005 Location: Sweden
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maglorine
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Posted: Fri, Apr 17 2009, 20:43 PM |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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F10/WM7/R13 would work. Plenty of ability points to move around as needed depending on your preference. IWW, Epic Dodge, near to full BAB, decent AC, some 7D6 sneakdice, with a good load of skillpoints to play with for flavor.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 9:51 AM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Near the bar.
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I went Rogue17/WM7/Ftr6 in the end. Gets you Crippling Strike that way.
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maglorine
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 13:26 PM |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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F5/WM7/R8 Pre-epic?
Did you snag EWSpec on that too?
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 14:05 PM |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
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In other news what about this Feat:
Improved Ki Strike:
This feat (when taken for the first time) grants the character a +4 enhancement bonus when attack unarmed. Choosing this feat a second time extends the bonus to +5.
Prerequisite: 21st level, Wisdom 21+, Kis Strike +3(lvl16 Monk)
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 14:19 PM |
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Monk gloves give the ability to punch through damage reduction too. I wouldnt spend the feats.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 15:05 PM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Near the bar.
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(Re: Ki Punchy Thingie) The WIS requirement is too high for my tastes, too.
Maglorine wrote: F5/WM7/R8 Pre-epic?
Did you snag EWSpec on that too? Yarp. The Fort/Will saves make me a very sad panda, but aside from that it's a right vicious wee thing. Not including Wonderforge weapons or Flame/Darkfire, it's on 25/hit, 100+ crits, and ~31 Sneak damage on top.
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Kezman
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 23:09 PM |
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Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Location: ireland
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ok finally decided what i want but need all your knowledge and help. cause made char but im terrible at making decent builds even thou been playing game for so long.
i wana play either orog or ogrillion, with evil alignment. i want it to be a brute, not really into casters for some reason i just love big dumb brutes who smash things. hopefully join group of orc's and others, like dark-horde when im playing.
weapon of choice i was thinking double axe or double sword but axe so much cooler, was also looking along lines axe plus warhammer sounds quite cool combo, my throwing axe idea sorta got ruined cause i thought used str as ab modifier (weak orc even if good dex not sound cool for me). i no using 2different medium weapons will make my char worse but i think it will look cool plus want this char for rp and i never really play enough to reach 23+lvls so think i should be ok in most areas.
well anyways thats all i got so far, so hope someone can help me out with this, cheers
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Falling Spider
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Posted: Sat, Apr 18 2009, 23:32 PM |
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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You'll need 15 dex for TWF, Ambi, and ITWF. If completely disregard everything but the 15 dex, max strength, and con, you should do decent on the AB front, provided you only take full AB classes preepic.
Of course, your ab will still suck, but raging will help.
_________________ Gahnn Bluetusk Aleksandr Vespermouth II "Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 7:24 AM |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Finland
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I wouldn't take any feats, I'd just wear the gloves that grant you TWF and Ambidexterity. And if I had to use a shield, I'd equip a different set of gloves. Besides, you would only be dual-wielding in a party with a tank.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 9:22 AM |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
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Drow Archer builds? I saw someone awhile back had an elf that was like Monk9/Wiz??/AA17? I think, I dont remember if they did a ton of damage but there was like no catching them to kill them. Course you want your aa to do damage but? Build ideas?
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
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ticket
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 11:11 AM |
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Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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BeautifulLie wrote: Drow Archer builds? I saw someone awhile back had an elf that was like Monk9/Wiz??/AA17? I think, I dont remember if they did a ton of damage but there was like no catching them to kill them. Course you want your aa to do damage but? Build ideas?
Humm... it's all up to player preference, Heavy AA builds are all basically the same in terms of their super reliable AB (53+). And imo, Amian AA's gets super strong arrows that damage is a non issue.
The main decision is basically going bard or monk. (Drows should generally be CE though, right?)
The monk builds generally get better AC but the best feature of the Monk/AA is the ability to outrun enemies. The build could also go zen archery for epic detection. 10Monk/1Wiz/17AA probably being the best combo for this case.
The bard path gets UMD and a third class. UMD makes your AA unpredictable and damn resourceful with every dirty trick available to them. They would always have a way to defeat any opponent, good foresight is a must.
The only weakness really is their AC. Sure, it's enough for PvM but would never hold up in PvP.
The third class available for the bard/AA are usually limited but opens up some nice advantages for the build. Need more feats and damage? Go fighter. Need to be sneaky? SD with HiPS. etc.
My CE drow AA, if I would ever make one, would need something that oozes evil with AC and damage to back it up.
I'd go 9Bard/4Blackguard/15AA and get him Divine Might, Divine Shield, and other treats - shield proficiency, dark blessing (+6 saves!), and aura of despair (nothing says evil more simply than having that aura). Divine Shield puts it on par with the monk/aa AC; carry a towershield w/ sling and it goes even higher. Divine Might would be there for against the big bad.
Anyways, make instead a crossbower. +10 cool points 
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 14:43 PM |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
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Ah the character I have that would be rebuilt has a True Strike Heavy Crossbow or something like that with mass crits i'd have to look at it again. >.>; If the damage was acceptable I'd probably want the build that could kite. aka Monk/Wiz/AA. The character has been CE went NE and might actually move to LE it's possible with the way his RP has been lately. *Ponder* question is, is the Heavy Crossbow > or = Sling + Shield or Longbow (Preffered AA weapon?)
On the other hand I do have about +12 Cha in gear on the char right now as well >.>; lol
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 14:50 PM |
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Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Location: Philippines
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Somehow related question, does AA even work with crossbows?
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herkles
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 14:53 PM |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 15:36 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere
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Magnum Opera wrote: Somehow related question, does AA even work with crossbows?
Nope, Shortbow/Longbow only. Sorry.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Zifon
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 16:22 PM |
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Location: Denmark
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Its here somewhere I know, but I'm too old and lazy to look, so:
When shifted into a creature what feats are good (I believe imp. crit unarmed and more?), and what dont merge over (focus: unarmed, and?)
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 20:10 PM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Location: England
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Anyone got any advice for a Ranger/SD Build?
Firstly though, i want to be able to cast upto the highest Ranger level, though this can be compromised, have a decent INT for skills and an okay STR.
Aiming for 14 INT, want as many skillpoints as possible.
Not too sure on what and when to take certain Favoured enemies, any help with this would be much appreciated/
I'm hoping for a character who can spot almost anyone, which would be better out of Spot or Listen? I only want one of the two, as it allows me to use any remaining skill points on other things.
The race is likely going to be Elf, but i'm avoiding Wood Elf, due to the minus to INT.
Other races are possible, though i also avoid ECL's, but will possibly consider +1 at the most.
The build doesn't need to have SD levels either, i'd like as many Ranger levels as possible, probably going to take one Rogue level at the start for the high amount of skill points.
Melee weapon prefered! Will consider dual-wielding too.
So, advice, anyone? 
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
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Acrid
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 21:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Location: Amia
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hm, didnt you leaved Amia? welcome back!
Ranger 25 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 1
Enemies:
-Human
-Elf
-Undead
-Outsider i guess
-and no idea
_________________
By Jaydn
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 21:25 PM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Location: England
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Yus, Thanks! But a few people said i was acting too quickly to decide that, so turned out being a break to think things through, rather.
Thanks for the build help, any additional help from anyone would be good and very much appreciated!
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
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Azrael
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 21:27 PM |
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Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Location: Some planet known as Earth
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He's just too fast.

_________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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StandingBehindYou
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 21:35 PM |
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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2k8ste wrote: I'm hoping for a character who can spot almost anyone, which would be better out of Spot or Listen? From the first build thread: Uberuce wrote: January 5, 2009Listen Pros: 1) It works round corners and over walls. I've not poked about with it extensively, but the engine seems to work in a pretty common sense way; if there's a clear air path between you and the person, you'll hear them if you beat MS. 2) The Listen boosting spell (Ampilify)is +20, but Spot's booster(True Seeing) is only +10. Listen Cons: 1) No matter how much better than their MS your Listen is, a HiPSer will disappear for a full round before you can acquire them. This is exactly when they pop out of stealth and attack you unless you instantly run away when they go HiPS. If you're in a small room, you can't get out of Sneak range and you're dead meat, but in a big space you end up hitting, they HiPS, you fall back at least 15ft and reacquire and attack them, they HiPS, you fall back, wash rinse repeat. (With Spot, if you win the roll, they reappear almost immediately. It breaks your action queue, but if you just reclick them, you're back in business.) 2) Even when you have acquired them, they count as Invisible, for the purpose of Sneak Attacks. They will get a full round's worth when they leave HiPS even if you are attacking them at the time. If you have 60+AC this isn't so bad since few, if any SD's can hit that unless they've flatfooted you. 3) You need See Invisibility/True Seeing up to detect an Invisible person who's also in stealth. That's not much of a downside since you would have See Invis or some kind running anyway, if you wre anti-sneaking, but for a blind character it looks totally stupid. 4) You can't cast target-only spells on someone you've Listened. You can attack with melee or ranged weapons, but you need to use AoE spells. 5) The Listen boosting spells are rounds/level. If you aren't a Bard then they're too short to use in fights. Fine for catching eavesdroppers. Now, a Monk archer is one of the better placed builds to use Listen over Spot: because of your extreme movement speed, you can do the they HiPS-I run-Listen-Shoot better than most other folk. They'll be forced to run to you while you drop zillions of high AB Rapid Shots past their Epic Dodge. Spot's still better, just not as much as for most other style/builds. Or the short version: Listen is better for catching eavesdroppers, Spot is better for everything else.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 22:12 PM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Location: England
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Thanks SBY, Spot it is then.
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
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aurelius311
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Posted: Sun, Apr 19 2009, 22:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Location: hanging on.
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I think you more likely want 21 Ranger (for bane), 6 SD, and 3 rogue. You cant get 4F for EWS, so no need to go that route. plus if you start with a Rogue level, you will get a lot more skill points. And you can skill dump UMD as well.
_________________ "Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling
Last edited by aurelius311 on Mon, Apr 20 2009, 0:13 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Acrid
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 0:09 AM |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Location: Amia
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2k8ste wrote: Yus, Thanks! But a few people said i was acting too quickly to decide that, so turned out being a break to think things through, rather.
Dont do as other says, choose your destiny!
*wait for Opustus to give more detail on that 25 ranger build*
_________________
By Jaydn
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aurelius311
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 0:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Location: hanging on.
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that 25 ranger build is all over in this thread. its pretty simple.
take 25 ranger, get bane. have 13-14 wis for max blade thirst. take 4F, making sure the last one is lvl 24 or 27 epic, for WS and EWS. Take rogue at like 29, skill dump tumble and UMD.
However, the OP said he wanted SD, which is why this was breezed over.
_________________ "Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling
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Acrid
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 0:19 AM |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Location: Amia
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Thank you Aurelius.
But since he want a STR guy, i wouldnt take SD as the DEX will be low for hidding purposes.
_________________
By Jaydn
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aurelius311
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 1:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Location: hanging on.
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yeah, his request was a bit much. He wants SD (so he needs high DEX), but also says he wants 14 INT, good STR, and top ranger spells (which requires high WIS). and he wants lots of skill points too.
theres only so much to go around, you know?
_________________ "Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 1:26 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Location: England
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Yeah, so i guess i'll just completely forget about the SD levels.
What do you think about these for starter stats:
STR - 16
DEX - 12
CON - 12
WIS - 14
INT - 14
CHA - 8
That's based on Elf, without Sub-race. What attributes should i go to putting up each time i get an extra to Allocate? Wisdom?
Oh and first level is deffinately going to be Rogue.
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
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herkles
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 1:30 AM |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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just to let you know there are no subraceless elves ICly wise, thus basic elf is moon elf. Also is that the finialized starting stats? I myself would put more points into dex.
_________________  (
made by Gem.
Elven information links
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 1:39 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Location: England
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Yeah, i know, what i ment was no Sub-race with any +'s or -'s to any Attributes, other than Elves Default +2 to DEX and -2 to CON.
Nope, not finalized, i could sacrifice the extra two CON, put it down to ten and have that added to the DEX?
That would make:
STR - 16
DEX - 14
CON - 10
WIS - 14
INT - 14
CHA - 8
Keeping in mind though, i'll more than likely be taking a Melee weapon.
EDIT: Should i choose to Dual-Wield, or use a shield, for higher AC?
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 5:20 AM |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
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Drow Archer: Bard 9/ Blackguard 4/ Arcane Archer 15
Str: 14
Dex: 18 -> 24(+6 from levels)
Con: 8
Int: 12 -> 14 (+2 to drow)
Wis: 8
Cha: 15 -17 (+2 to drow) -> 18 (+1 from levels)
1B) Point Blank Shot
2B)
3B) Weapon Focus: Longbow
4B) +1 Cha
5B)
6B) Power Attack
7B)
8B) +1 Dex
9AA) Cleave
10BG)
11BG)
12BG) +1 Dex, Divine Might
13AA)
14AA)
15BG) Divine Shield
16AA) +1 Dex
17AA)
18AA) Rapid Shot
19AA)
20AA) +1 Dex
21AA) Called Shot
22AA)
23AA)
24AA) +1 Dex, Epic Prowress
25AA)
26AA) Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
27B) Lingering Song(?)
28AA) +1 Dex
Ok I have no clue how to make a good Archer so this was what I slapped together with the mention from above. This guy fully buffed gets about 57AC or so, maybe a little more. Ab is 52/47/42/37 with a +4 Longbow.
I kinda want to get him high spot but don't really know how (cause Drow society is full of SDs : /) Did I choose good feats? Should I switch things up? Halp!?
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 5:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Near the bar.
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High Spot means you take Epic Skill Focus Spot, which is dandy since you have that spare epic feat anyway.
My AA was Bard10/BG3/AA17, with 20 CHA, 10 CON and I think 22 final DEX but I forget. I didn't bother with Divine Shield, since I reckoned he was toast anyway if he got caught in melee. Bard10 gives Improved Invis as a spell, which saves you having to make endless scroll buying trips or chew up all your wands. Also gets Warcry, thus making your Barb battledrum last twice as long.
I'm not convinced by any means I made the best choice there - Bard8/BG3/AA15 I'm pretty much sure is the best core of an evil archer, but I'm not settled on how to fill up the last four levels.
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gorgometh
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 6:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Location: Southeast (USA)
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Any ideas on a cleric/wm build? I was thinking something along the lines of a Cleric/ Weapon Master/ Champion of "Torm" with a tiefling subrace but was interested in any and all input from the build gurus. ^^;
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 6:16 AM |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Finland
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2k8ste wrote: Yeah, i know, what i ment was no Sub-race with any +'s or -'s to any Attributes, other than Elves Default +2 to DEX and -2 to CON.
Nope, not finalized, i could sacrifice the extra two CON, put it down to ten and have that added to the DEX?
That would make:
STR - 16
DEX - 14
CON - 10
WIS - 14
INT - 14
CHA - 8
Keeping in mind though, i'll more than likely be taking a Melee weapon.
EDIT: Should i choose to Dual-Wield, or use a shield, for higher AC?
Well, it's damn easy to sneak as a ranger. You won't be able to sneak for real if you go STR-based. But with a STR-based ranger, cornersneaking is still a valid tactic.
Now, the stats have many many alternatives. It is pretty much "whatever floats your boat". Although, I'd just toss the Dex on the rubbish heap and use those lovely gloves that grant you TWF and Ambidexterity.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 6:22 AM |
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Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Location: Philippines
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divinesaint wrote: Any ideas on a cleric/wm build? I was thinking something along the lines of a Cleric/ Weapon Master/ Champion of "Torm" with a tiefling subrace but was interested in any and all input from the build gurus. ^^;
What weapon do you intend to use? Depending on weapon, I think you can go Cleric20/CoT4/WM5 or Cleric20/CoT2/WM7, though both are quite dispellable.
Edit: You're better off with Fighter than CoT build-wise in this case. Might even fit in EWS somewhere in there.
Last edited by Magnum Opera on Mon, Apr 20 2009, 6:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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ticket
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 6:30 AM |
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Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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@ BeautifulLie: Noticed you didn't have blind fight in there. It's a must imo.
My first concept was a an AA without spot/listen skills. I prioritized getting divine might and shield, and wound up with no extra feat to squeeze in epic skill spot. Trying to spot hidden SDs without epic skill spot is futile imho; so I didn't even bother with spot.
Here's the build, it gets rapid shot and called shot early on to help the levelling process.
Bard(9), Arcane Archer(15), Blackguard(4), Drow
STR: 13
DEX: 19 (26)
CON: 12
WIS: 8
INT: 10
CHA: 16
01-08 Bard:
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus: Longbow
Rapid Shot
09-18 Arcane Archer:
Called Shot
Improved Critical: Longbow
Power Attack
Cleave
19-20 Blackguard
21AA) Blind Fight
22AA)
23AA)
24BG) Divine Might
25AA) Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
26AA)
27AA) Divine Shield
28BARD)
Reading Uberuce's comment: "I didn't bother with Divine Shield, since I reckoned he was toast anyway if he got caught in melee." I'd have to agree with him.
It might be better to replace divine shield with epic skill spot/listen instead so you can see those pesky drows and go 10 Bard/3BG/15AA as Uberuce says. I never have given any thought on the bard's spell casting ability, and indeed I'd rather have improved invisibilty over divine shield.
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gorgometh
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 7:06 AM |
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Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Location: Southeast (USA)
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Magnum Opera wrote: What weapon do you intend to use? Depending on weapon, I think you can go Cleric20/CoT4/WM5 or Cleric20/CoT2/WM7, though both are quite dispellable.
Edit: You're better off with Fighter than CoT build-wise in this case. Might even fit in EWS somewhere in there.
Well the weapon would be scimitar due to my character already being a weapon master of said weapon.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 7:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Location: Philippines
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divinesaint wrote: Magnum Opera wrote: What weapon do you intend to use? Depending on weapon, I think you can go Cleric20/CoT4/WM5 or Cleric20/CoT2/WM7, though both are quite dispellable.
Edit: You're better off with Fighter than CoT build-wise in this case. Might even fit in EWS somewhere in there.
Well the weapon would be scimitar due to my character already being a weapon master of said weapon.
Then unless you *really* want the extended crit range, WM5 is quite good enough without eating through the cleric caster levels.
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Kjetta
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 7:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
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Think of it like this, even if you only need 10 or 11 to crit someone, that doesn't help you at all if you need to roll 15 to actually hit your opponent in your first place. Rolls that threaten critical hits can miss, after all. And, do you really need more offensive powers against someone you can hit on a roll of 10 or 11? They're dead anyways.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!

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gorgometh
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 7:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Location: Southeast (USA)
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Yarg! Thanks guys. I appreciate the input and will definitely be working on this build to make it fun so any other ideas or helpful hints you guys think up be sure to to throw them at me.
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Swallow the Stars
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 7:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Location: Southeast (USA)
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So, everyone, I was wondering.. in the traditional Fighter / Rogue / Blackguard build, what's better? Cha-Heavy without Dev-Crit, with Epic Skill Focus Discipline, Epic Prowess, and Epic Fortitude; or a Str-Heavy Devver with only the option of Epic Prowess or Great Fort (Potentially Great Fort, since the Fort is extremely lacking?)
I just ain't got a clue.
_________________ Espiel Callahan
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 8:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Near the bar.
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2k8ste wrote: EDIT: Should i choose to Dual-Wield, or use a shield, for higher AC? Don't you mean double weapon or shield?
If not, then you make that decision on the spot. Typically my Ranger would go in with sword'n'board to a spawn, then dualwield as soon as she could get away with it, which in party was often near instantly.
That's kinda why dualwielding is better overall than double weaponing; if you do get stuck needing that shield AC, your offence goes kinda crappy.
Admittedly, when you are in your niche, it's supersexy. I rolled up a STR-base Sneakwhore with a double axe just now and the bad mofo drop 87/80's mainhand/offhand. Toss in a Bard and a 1d12 fire vs frost and you're on 100 damage per non-crit. Which is nice.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 8:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Location: Philippines
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divinesaint wrote: Yarg! Thanks guys. I appreciate the input and will definitely be working on this build to make it fun so any other ideas or helpful hints you guys think up be sure to to throw them at me.
Well, I'd really convince you to take fighter over CoT, but hey, RP > everything else.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 9:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Near the bar.
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Champion of Helm wrote: So, everyone, I was wondering.. in the traditional Fighter / Rogue / Blackguard build, what's better? Cha-Heavy without Dev-Crit, with Epic Skill Focus Discipline, Epic Prowess, and Epic Fortitude; or a Str-Heavy Devver with only the option of Epic Prowess or Great Fort (Potentially Great Fort, since the Fort is extremely lacking?)
I just ain't got a clue. You can get Devcrit with 16 STR and 16 CHA at start, and three Great STR feats. Well, two will do, but you're better off on an even 26STR.
You need Armourskin, EWF, EWS, Over and Dev, so you need at least 4 odd numbered Ftr levels in epic, and since you need 4Ftr pre-epic to bag WS, you're looking at at least 12 levels overall.
Dunno what's the best way of monkeying about with the levels, mind. In order of increasing AB and decreasing Sneaks:
Rogue8/BG8/Ftr4 into Rogue10/BG8/Ftr12
Rogue4/BG10/Ftr8 into Rogue6/BG10/Ftr16
Ftr10/BG10 into Ftr18/BG8/Rogue2
All of them are solid enough chaps(basically if you can hang Devcrit onto anything with good saves and AC then you're grand. CHA16 isn't the best Divine Shield ever, and the duration is a pisser, but it's viable) although only one gets Cripling Strike, and none get the excellent BG16 pets.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 13:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Location: England
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Kay, thanks for all the info everyone. All i need now, is to know which favoured Enemies are best to take, i'll look through the rest of the thread too, to see if it's been posted.
After reading everyone's suggestions, and having a little think about it, i've decided to go 28Ranger/2Rogue, is it worth it?
The reason i'm going toward those levels, are so i can get as many Ranger levels as possible and trying to get my Companion as strong as possible.
EDIT: After reading DEX based is best way to go, due to survival factor, i came up with these stats:
STR - 14
DEX - 16
CON - 12
WIS - 14
INT - 14
CHA - 8
And there on, Allocating a DEX point every time i get an Extra Attribute point? That way i have access to all Ranger elvel of Spells, enough INT for 40 Skill point at the start, okay HP, decent enough STR and AC from being DEX based overall.
_________________ Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar Previously known as: Anubis
Last edited by Herr Delta Houdini on Mon, Apr 20 2009, 14:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 14:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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BeautifulLie: Noticed you didn't have blind fight in there. It's a must imo.
I figured with 52AB and rapid shot that BF wasn't necessary also I didn't know if it worked on 'arrows' so thanks for that clarification.
Bard(10), Arcane Archer(15), Blackguard(3), Drow
STR: 13
DEX: 19 (26)
CON: 12 [10?]
WIS: 8
INT: 10 [12?] becomes 14 with drow
CHA: 16 becomes 18 with drow
01-08 Bard:
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus: Longbow
Rapid Shot
09-18 Arcane Archer:
Called Shot
Improved Critical: Longbow
Power Attack
Cleave
19-20 Blackguard
21AA) Blind Fight
22AA)
23AA)
24BG) Divine Might
25AA) Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
26AA)
27Bard) Epic Skill Focus: Spot
28BARD)
It might be better to replace divine shield with epic skill spot/listen instead so you can see those pesky drows and go 10 Bard/3BG/15AA as Uberuce says. I never have given any thought on the bard's spell casting ability, and indeed I'd rather have improved invisibilty over divine shield.
So I modified it with yours and Uce's suggestion, does that look more apropriate? Btw I reduced Con to 10 and up'd Int to 12 so it'll go to 14. That way he has skill points to work with. It's a little tight squeezing in UMD, Tumble, Spot, Disc, Conc,Heal and Perform (30 is a must) all together so one might want that extra int? And yes epic spotting is a must when you play a drow so you can see other drow being sneaky around you as you're trying to be sneaky >.>;
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
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gorgometh
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 14:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Location: Southeast (USA)
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Magnum Opera wrote: Well, I'd really convince you to take fighter over CoT, but hey, RP > everything else.
Fighter works better for the rp so consider me convinced 
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Swallow the Stars
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 14:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2007 Location: Southeast (USA)
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EDIT: Fixed errors and switched the stats a bit.
Uberuce wrote: You can get Devcrit with 16 STR and 16 CHA at start, and three Great STR feats. Well, two will do, but you're better off on an even 26STR.
You need Armourskin, EWF, EWS, Over and Dev, so you need at least 4 odd numbered Ftr levels in epic, and since you need 4Ftr pre-epic to bag WS, you're looking at at least 12 levels overall.
Dunno what's the best way of monkeying about with the levels, mind. In order of increasing AB and decreasing Sneaks:
Rogue8/BG8/Ftr4 into Rogue10/BG8/Ftr12 Rogue4/BG10/Ftr8 into Rogue6/BG10/Ftr16 Ftr10/BG10 into Ftr18/BG8/Rogue2
All of them are solid enough chaps(basically if you can hang Devcrit onto anything with good saves and AC then you're grand. CHA16 isn't the best Divine Shield ever, and the duration is a pisser, but it's viable) although only one gets Cripling Strike, and none get the excellent BG16 pets.
I was thinking more along the lines of a BG-heavy build that took advantage of all the BG abilities and the BG16 pets. BG 19 is about as much BG as you can take while still getting a UMD and Tumbledump in Epic. It also allows for +19 ac to the Epic Fiendish Servant, 8d6 sneaks, and the best durations for Unholy Sword and Epic Fiendish Servant. I'm just a little iffy about the CHA. Tanking Dex doesn't bother me, but tanking CHA does, sortof - and God only knows how much I don't want the Aasimar Subrace to fix that, even if it would do it nicely.
Here's what I've got:
Revised Blackguard
Human
Ability Statistics:
STR 18 -> 26
DEX 8
CON 8
WIS 14
INT 10
CHA 14
Fighter 8 / Rogue 3 / Blackguard 19
1Rogue1 Feat: Power Attack, Feat: Cleave
2Fight1 Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency
3Fight2 Feat: Weapon Focus Bastard Sword, Feat: Toughness
4Fight3 Str +1
5Fight4 Feat: Knockdown
6Fight5 Feat: Weapon Specialization Bastard Sword
7Fight6 Feat: Blind-Fight
8Fight7 Str +1
9BG1 Feat: Improved Critical Bastard Sword
10BG2
10BG2
11BG3
12BG4 Feat: Divine Might, Str +1
13BG4
14BG5
15BG6 Feat: Divine Shield
16BG7 Str +1
17Rogue2 **Tumble Dump, UMD Dump
18BG8 Feat: Great cleave
19BG9
20BG10 Str +1
21BG11 Feat: Epic Weapon Focus Bastard Sword
22BG12
23BG13 Feat: Armor Skin
24Fight8 Feat: Epic Weapon Specialization Bastard Sword, Str +1
25BG15
26BG16 Feat: Epic Fiendish Servant
27Rogue3 Feat: Overwhelming Critical, **Tumbledump, UMDdump
28BG17 Str +1
29BG18
30BG19 Feat: Great Str I, Feat: Devastating Critical
Skillset: Concentration 33, Discipline 33, Tumble 30, UMD 30, Hide 5, Intimidate/Persuade 19
AC: 10 base + 1 dex + 8 divine + 4 haste + 12 armor + 7 shield + 2 feat + 5 boots + 6 tumble + 4 amulet + 4 cloak/ring = 59 (63 w/haste)
Max Damage: 10 base + 8 divine + 8 fire + 11 str + 5 enhancement + 6 feat + 10 bludge = 60 (108 with sneaks); 120 critical (168 critical sneak)
AB: 24 base + 3 feat + 14 str + 5 enhance = 46
_________________ Espiel Callahan
Last edited by Swallow the Stars on Tue, Apr 21 2009, 4:48 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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Acrid
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Posted: Mon, Apr 20 2009, 15:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Location: Amia
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Not possible. You need 13 Charisma for divine shield/might and a decent number is at least charisma 16 to get to 28 and then, a modifier 9.
EDIT: oh you edited it >.< 12 char still isnt good 8P
_________________
By Jaydn
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