Just in case in the future I decide to make a Shifter, I'd like to have a few things down pat so that I don't get into trouble.
It's already been voted upon that 1000 faces is immune to TS and any method to reveal the base race outside of death. This is accepted. If someone was a tief with 1000 Faces and shifted to an elf and tried to get into Winya but the gates barred them based on base race, is it alright or not for someone else to open the gates to let the Shifter walk in and around thus ignoring the set game mechanics which we all know, really can't help it?
I'm asking since the general consensus is that 1000 Faces changes what one is right down to the sub-atomic just about so when you change you're really no longer the base race.
Yes, no or get ready to flee from the angry mob of elves?
_________________ GM "Roll a new sheet, you died for blasphemy." P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?" *dice roll for chart* GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship." P1 "...so new character you say?"
Actually it doesn't on levels and on others, it does. It's still a conflict though. "If nothing can see through 1000 faces as stated in other threads, then should the guards matter?" seems to be the outlook of many with it.
This is the question that has been brought up more than a few times. I kind of wish I was crazy but:
So the answer from WonWon is, flee the pitchforks. Got it.
_________________ GM "Roll a new sheet, you died for blasphemy." P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?" *dice roll for chart* GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship." P1 "...so new character you say?"
The thing that tumbles a shifted person is the accent. That's not a problem for the surfacer races in the main, but for drow it is more debatable, and has indeed been discussed many times.
I tend to trot out my Drow Accent Challenge in such cases: name an actor who learned English as an adult and concealed his or her native tongue's accent well enough that I can't tell the difference. (A similar challenge can be done for any language; it's just that I happen to be a speaker of nothing but English, although some people consider my heavier dwarven accents to be a totally different tongue.)
Joined: 26 May 2006 Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
The biggest thing that would punch shifters in the gut is what Marauth posted in another topic. Shifters mimic other races and unless they were extremely in tune with the said shifted species, it'd be easy to tell that something wasn't quite right.
For example, an American walking into a bar trying to act Australian would be quickly caught on by the Australians.
Unfortunately for a shifter trying to sneak into Ultrinnan, they're going to hit a few snags. Firstly they won't understand Drow sign language or even undercommon (which would be differ from the Eili's drow sign like English English and American English), they wouldn't walk like Drow, wouldn't talk in the same manner as Drow (different accents, vocabularies, slang, and colloquialism like Ruce said), they'd express themselves differently in their manner... and any Drow would pick up that something wasn't quite right with them.
Same can be said about any race and shifters which is why the racial gates make sense for kicking shifters out in my opinion. But NPCs are one thing... because it's text based, accents and manner can't really apply effectively unless you keep asking.
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Last edited by Galenson on Thu, Apr 16 2009, 10:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.
That I can absolutely live with and abide by. *makes note for potential future RP as a Shifter*
It just seems the only thing that sees through 1000 Faces is the omnipotent aspects of city gates at this point.
Indeedy, though theres nothing we can do about that. Damned system and game mechanics make it impossible without DM assistance which you should have anyway.
While we're on this topic, mind if I ask something.
If someone was going to get a reskin for an animal companion and their backstory was that they went through a city that hates drow during it (Keeping in mind that said person is a drow and using the 1000 faces widget) would it be rejected because of game mechanics?
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
Aye, it's... precautionary I guess is the way to put it. It's not that ICly you would necessarily be caught, they just want to make sure you're not trying to do anything slick. As a silly example, a Drow changing to an Elf and walking into the Seldarine temple and spiting at Corellons idol or something. Anything malicious really. It's to make sure no one tries to pull a fast one in "enemy" grounds while assuming they won't get caught. Thats my guess anyway.
The Silent Whisper wrote:
While we're on this topic, mind if I ask something. If someone was going to get a reskin for an animal companion and their backstory was that they went through a city that hates drow during it (Keeping in mind that said person is a drow and using the 1000 faces widget) would it be rejected because of game mechanics?
Whoa??? I read it like five times and still don't understand. Maybe I'm having a slow day or something, elaborate?
I think it means, to get the object that the companion is being reskinned into, is it OK if someone (in their story), used the 1000 faces widget to go into a city to obtain it.
You don't have to "act" a great deal to be taken for an Australian. You don't even have to be caucasian. Simply don't open your mouth. (and grow a beard and sweat a lot)
You don't have to "act" a great deal to be taken for an Australian. You don't even have to be caucasian. Simply don't open your mouth. (and grow a beard and sweat a lot)
But lumberjacks are Canadian!
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Location: Goldcoast, Australia
xordae wrote:
You don't have to "act" a great deal to be taken for an Australian. You don't even have to be caucasian. Simply don't open your mouth. (and grow a beard and sweat a lot)
Robert Downey Jr. who i think is an extreamly good actor and has a whole lot of experiance with doing diffrent rolls and such Cant play an Aussie Accent to save his life. Natural born killers and that new ben stiller movie are my proof.
Get a DM and dont be surprised if you are requested to make a perform, bluff or persuade check (or all of the above *grins evily*) to resemble a discuise check if you decide to open your yap
If you know the language well, even not as a nativespeaker, its not hard to fake a different nationality, especially not to people who are not of the nationality you try to fake. If you speak english more or less fluently (like most younger scandinavians (ie: 40 and younger) do i believe), then its not really a problem for us to pose as american, english, australian, or canadian if we put some effort into it. Putting on an accent isnt that hard, but keeping it consistant is harder. Then you will just need to do some research on the nationality yopu want to fake, preferably spend some time there, and viola, you can fake it quite well.
Some general (but not foolproof) tips for nationalities to fake:
English: Speak like they do in 'Hooligans'. Cheer for The Empire now and then, Make sure you know what fish n' chips is.
Scottish: You know, dwarven? Make sure you know stuff about kilts, bagpipes, haggis and the difference bteween The Highlands, the Lowlands and The Islans
Irish: Be ginger, drink Guinnes, wear green.
American: Generally be loud and uncooperative.
Scandinavian: This one is hard to pull off, as you need to be tall, blond and blue eyed if you want to fake this to any non-scandinavian. Towards scandinavians; Learn german, invent some of your own words, and claim you are from southern Sweeden or the inland dales in eastern Norway.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
QPR wrote:
If you know the language well, even not as a nativespeaker, its not hard to fake a different nationality, especially not to people who are not of the nationality you try to fake. If you speak english more or less fluently (like most younger scandinavians (ie: 40 and younger) do i believe), then its not really a problem for us to pose as american, english, australian, or canadian if we put some effort into it. Putting on an accent isnt that hard, but keeping it consistant is harder. Then you will just need to do some research on the nationality yopu want to fake, preferably spend some time there, and viola, you can fake it quite well.
Some general (but not foolproof) tips for nationalities to fake: English: Speak like they do in 'Hooligans'. Cheer for The Empire now and then, Make sure you know what fish n' chips is.
Scottish: You know, dwarven? Make sure you know stuff about kilts, bagpipes, haggis and the difference bteween The Highlands, the Lowlands and The Islans
Irish: Be ginger, drink Guinnes, wear green.
American: Generally be loud and uncooperative.
Scandinavian: This one is hard to pull off, as you need to be tall, blond and blue eyed if you want to fake this to any non-scandinavian. Towards scandinavians; Learn german, invent some of your own words, and claim you are from southern Sweeden or the inland dales in eastern Norway.
I have yet to see a convincing Aussie accent on an actor, an they get voice training.
The closest I heard was some weird Scottish/kiwi mix.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
I played a drow shifter and a DM let me into Winya.
It's actually to get in anywhere. ESPECIALLY as a shifter.
But a couple really important things I learned is this:
Have an empty bio. To a shifter a Bio is the ENEMY.
Have a non memorable name. Auto select names might work, but the best are names that seem that can be any race. It'll aleviate that automatic sspicon when you enter a place.
Talking is evil. It only allows anyone to get to know you. As most shifters make great spies, spies tend to travel fromplace to place, where disguises, and relatively are unknown.
Lose history by not making really close friends. If people learn you are a druid, they'll suspect you MAY one day be a shifter. To avoid this, try to avoid hunting with the same people early in game.
Mechanics wise the gates are there to keep out races from doing ridiculous things. But honestly I don't see why EVERY place should have a secret entrance like Cordor does. Most kingdoms in the FR setting have multiple nd secret entrances. No one single city has only one entrance, because then if you were attacked, you'd be bottled in.
Scandinavian: This one is hard to pull off, as you need to be tall, blond and blue eyed if you want to fake this to any non-scandinavian. Towards scandinavians; Learn german, invent some of your own words, and claim you are from southern Sweeden or the inland dales in eastern Norway.
I have been asked before by non-scandi's if I am from Norway or something. My favourite tactic is posing as a german at the international society meets for free food.
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
I have yet to see a convincing Aussie accent on an actor, an they get voice training. The closest I heard was some weird Scottish/kiwi mix.
I think the thing is, it's easier to fool people who aren't actually from the place whose accent you're imitating. People in general have a very finely-developed ability to recognize outsiders, but it's more difficult to distinguish different types of outsiders because you don't have nearly as much exposure to them.
So it would be hard to pretend to be a New Yorker in New York or an Australian in Australia, but it would be easier to pretend to be an Australian in New York or a New Yorker in Australia.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
How is the ability to fool outsiders related to your ability to infiltrate the city? You need to fool the guards who are natives ... you may be able to convince people outside cities, but it is still pretty reasonable that one still needs a DM t get into a city itself.
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My favourite tactic is posing as a german at the international society meets for free food.
Why would pretending to be German get you free food?
(its actually the French that seem to believe that all the food in Europe and the seas around it belongs to them......)
_________________ "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence" ~ Napoleon Bonaparte. - Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
How is the ability to fool outsiders related to your ability to infiltrate the city?
It should not be difficult to imagine how the ability to conceal your cultural origin could help in such an endeavour.
However, you are correct: it isn't directly related. I was responding to the post that I had quoted, and I was talking about the real world, not talking about sneaking into towns in NWN.
Quote:
but it is still pretty reasonable that one still needs a DM
Hey guys, this isnt about shifting vs game mechanics but i thought i'd just continuein this thread rather then start a new one.
clause first: This is a work of fiction and hypothethical scenario. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, characters, toons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental.
If a shifter turns into a rat, and goes into a crypt and that crypt has pc enemies in there, are they allowed to meta that the rat is actually a shifter disguised? how does this work when a shifter uses raven form, or rat form to spy on people. I mean if its not obvious ..like a rat in a crypt or a raven in a forest. Not a polar bear in a desert for example. If the rats just chilling out by a grave or a raven is just sitting on a tree. Are pcs allowed to meta in such manner 'THAT RAT LOOKS TOO CLEAN TO BE A Reeeeal RAT! or THAT RAVEN"S FLYING TOO LOW!!! //set to dislike *smack with hellball*
basically how does this go about when its just animals and not shifting into like other races where its easy to spot accent differences etc. ICly if the character had animal empathy and rolled it to determine if there is anything odd with that specific shifted animal form, I would agree to it and roll with the rp..but how exactly does this work rule wise?
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A rat in a crypt is not so out of the ordinary and would be completely ignored by any of my characters unless they either had an extreme fear of rats or the shifter-rat was being obnoxious.
Conversely, if I see a Dire Tiger in the Amia Forest, every one of my characters (except for the most stupid of them) is going to assume it's a shifter.
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In general, if your shifter acts liek the animal he/she is shifted into, most players (I hope) will treat it as an animal. Mind though, that this also mean they might attack you. Any PC who has traveled through the cordor crypts know that every rat is out to get them, and must thus be killed. What usually annoys me is when people get pissed because my characters react with (usualy verbal) hostility against shifters in the shape of raksasha, illithid or other well known evil beings, berating my characters for not assuming that it is a shifter and not a real raksasha.
Bottom line; shifting is not, and should not, be risk free.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
The requiring permission is something I'd always seen as a double edged sword. Its nice that people cant enter hostile territories to slaughter without a DM present. At the same time though, when one is infiltrating another city, either invisible, disquised, shape shifted or otherwise... It seems rather more of a eic pain in the ass. Mostly because there arent many DMs on amia who are regularly in game. Not to say that they arent doing their jobs, for they definitely are. Its just that even during peak hours it seems a rare thing to have more than 1 DM online on either A or B server. And often times if you send them a tell for permission to infiltrate they tell you "Not Now" or "Im busy" which makes whatever roleplay (assuming there was some) difficult to perform.
I think it should be based on the reasoning for entering. Hostile intentions should require a DM while quietly passing through or spying should not. Otherwise, I would really like to see a lot more DMs added to the staff.
Hell.. I'd like to see more active DMs added anyway lol. Just to bolster that DM/Player ratio.
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Since, as an animal, you generally won't be talking, emotes reinforcing your apparent status as such become viable and, to some extent, necessary. You won't be typing anything else, so you have a great opportunity to make it abundantly clear that your character is acting like the animal he is imitating.
As for thing something something subatomic thing in the OP, I don't think this is strictly true. Outwardly, you can imitate someone perfectly, but you cannot, say, take on an elf's longevity, which would likely be physiological (correct me if I'm wrong - that's just a guess).
Tell if what i did was illegal. Another shifter needed something from the grove, but couldn't get past the gate. I also s shifter could, but instead of just retrieving the item for her i devised a plan where i would pose as a druid, which I'm not, and she would be my animal companion. We had no intention of doing anything bad, more just to rp the situation. Should i have contacted a dm. I am new to amia, do i don't always realize if i break rules.
Sent from my phone sort if it had typos.
_________________ Lance battle shifter of Red Knight Lyle Underburrow...I would watch where you step when he's around, you might go boom
Tell if what i did was illegal. Another shifter needed something from the grove, but couldn't get past the gate. I also s shifter could, but instead of just retrieving the item for her i devised a plan where i would pose as a druid, which I'm not, and she would be my animal companion. We had no intention of doing anything bad, more just to rp the situation. Should i have contacted a dm. I am new to amia, do i don't always realize if i break rules.
Sent from my phone sort if it had typos.
Yes, it was. If someone is banned from a place you need a DM supervision if you want to sneak in under a disguise. Please don't do it again.
The general rule is that even if you think there's -no way- anyone could see through your disguise, or foil your plan, things can happen that you won't foresee. And to just assume that the guards won't have a way to beat your disguise is considered metagaming (As you're dictating the actions of NPC's that we players don't have control over!)
I like what you're thinking, and the strategies you're using. Just ask a DM to watch over you next time you want to be all sneaky-like and break into somewhere you're banned from!
Last edited by Mr. Hackums on Wed, Nov 14 2012, 20:04 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Yup! For the most part you guys know what is going on. 1000 Faces may give you the ability to shift into pretty much whatever, but, that does not then give the holder of that widget blanket permission to break server rules. You need a DM to infiltrate an area you aren't allowed to be in normally.
Same goes for other sorts of shape changing as well (as we have a few special ones).
If in doubt, feel free to PM any one of us on the team.
Going to lock this thread though as it seems to have run its course.
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