Yup; All races on AMia become standarised after a long leap in time.

Elves: Human with pointy ears; giggling is what they like most.
Dwarf: Dwarves are dwarves of course; a Bit of joking around
Hin: The result of a human breeding with elves.
Gnome: Ah Just doesn't get played anymore..What are they supposed to be?
Human: Who plays a human if you can be a human with pointy ears? *nod*
And the rest..devil's, aasimar, celestials;...Well you know what.

It's true; If you choose a race you play good in your own opinion, you can guide others to play like you do. WHether you like it or not, even yourself will just become the one standing outside of the race you're playing best yourself.

If drow were drow;
Elves were elves;
Human stayed human;
Dwarves stayed dwarves;
Gnomes were decently played:
And hins hins;
The rest the rest;

Then I agree, the RP would be more seriously, correct, and role play would have Roles again.

But perhaps people just wish to Play.
And it's those people that have the right to play Amia as well;
Their voice; even if you don't agree with the role they play, is as much worth in this discussion than the ones prefering Heavy Role Play.

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I'm against having to do research for every single character on the concept that I shouldn't have to study to enjoy a children's fantasy game because a few people say so.

Game, people. Game. It's meant for fun, not super-realistic D&D experience.
(Which is nowhere near realistic anyway)

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Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."

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Sure, NWN and Amia are games. True. However, this is an roleplaying server in a persistant world where I think players like to have a canon feeling.

It's like you're reading a book like Harry Potter for example. You expect Harry to use magic and not water filled baloons that he flings at Voldermort.

By the way - is there Lore about how Electricity is created on a scientific level? Or is it like the old days.. "Thor did it"?

Pft. Maioth do love his drow beating in prisons, and turning tieflings and aasimars alike, so I got atleast one racist/arse I just don't point it out, because it's way more fun when people expect him to be nice!

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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer

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Exactly.

Nobody should expect to be welcomed to play (insert name of any multi-participant game or sport here) without knowing the rules, or having any skill at it.

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

Is it too much to ask? No, not really.

However, it definately is too much to require for our community and generally 'accepting' server style. It's a server played by hundreds of different people and personalities, and for the most part - each of these people just want to have fun. What right does any person in this thread have to tell someone else how to accomplish that unless it's directly out of line with the gameplay rules? (Note, the answer is none)

Lead by example instead of being antisocial and chewing them out because their RP isn't "Perfect" to your standards.


Funniest part, of course, is that alot of people advocating "Know your race and RP it right!" (for as long as the discussion has existed) are just as bad as those they're calling out. Sometimes worse.

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Mostly Retired

I'll repeat my earlier question, how does playing a tiefling, drow or even avariel, take more skill than playing a sun elf, ghostwise halfling, or a calimshani?

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To answer this in a psuedo-clarifying manner.

To RP the first grouping of characters 'Correctly' as per the standards of Forgotten Realms or Dungeons and Dragons is much more difficult than the latter category, due to the intracacies of their mindsets, personas, histories, and the like.

IE - There's more to them that would need to be kept in mind, constantly, than the other 'basic' races.

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Mostly Retired

I would argue that all ''basic'' races expect for vanilla humans have a lot of quirks to them, as well as rich cultures and histories that ''should'' be kept in mind and often aren't.

I could be wrong, but I think most people would have an easier time explaining the difference between sun, moon and dark elves than between gold and shield dwarves, without looking it up.

Do people know anything about gnomes, other than that they are gadgeters and blow stuff up? Compare that to a tiefling.

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I agree with phearnun, I believe that one should look up lore for all races. This does not matter if I was making a drow, a sun elf, a kobold or an orc. One should do some research and understand certain things about them. I do not pretend to know everything or even alot about sun elves, drow, and so forth. I know a good bit, because I have a passion for lore and I love reading it.

One of the biggest things I am against is against drow, or more correctly good drow, which my charachters are also against for diffrent reasons. Drow are after all a hated race and most should know and understand this, and elves normally hate drow and vice versa. I have done what I can as Amareth to make it known that elves and drow are foes and hate each other. I also try to do similar things as my own drow when I play her.

I follow the policy of educate both IC and OOC. This basicly means, I will educate others ICly, preaching about the crimes of the drow and so forth as ama. I also will direct new players to elves lore, and offer help oocly. I do this as my drow too.

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(
made by Gem.
Elven information links

The question i get in my head is the following one: Why would you want to play a monstrous race if you dont want to read up on it? I mean, what is the point of playinga tiefling if you dont want to know anything about tieflings?

If one just wants to play without reading up on anything, human is an excellent choice. You allready know them quite well, and they need to indtroduction.

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

That's what I've always wondered, personally. I don't see the appeal in playing something without playing it like the lore says the creature in question acts. It's not that characters all need to be stereotypical, cardboard-cutout copies of the lore, but there's a reason it exists. If you look at a human from Africa and a human from America, they act completely differently, as do humans from England, and Russia.

When it comes to races, it's that same thing, to a more extreme. Except for a very small number of cases where, say, a dwarf is raised among halflings, or something, a dwarf is going to bear a lot of the cultural traits of dwarves, because they spend their entire life around dwarves. A kobold raised by kobolds will always act like a kobold, at some level.

I understand Phearnun's point and I agree to a degree. I -hope-, -want- and -wish- people would look up their races before playing them. But at the same time, I don't think they should -have- to. I encourage it though. And believe me when I say that it's actually pretty fun and interesting to do so.

I don't think I have one character that isn't racist, at least a little. Some are so subtle, you'd never even know it, like my two main, Willow and Tu'jol. The way I RP it is, Amia is a weird island, and I think a lot of people RP Amia as a weird island. On Amia, the freaks, weirdos, odd balls and unorthodox people of all races flock and that's why we have pointy eared giggle humans, cute Kobos, cuddly Gobos, etcetera, etcetera. This is used as an excuse by some to think all are good, happy, and "yay" until proven otherwise. This doesn't mean you have to . Some of my characters simply use caution until they prove them selves to be good before giving them the benefit of the doubt. Some of my others are just out right racist. In other words, lead by example.

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

What is the discussion trying to achieve actually?

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Ahhh, now this is a good question!

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

The big thing on Amia, of course, is political correctness, and modern-day thinking. By that, I mean that a majority of people lack the ability (either from lack of desire, fear of OOC hatred, or whatever else) to put those two thought processes aside. In fact, they're generally vastly inflated on Amia. Everyone, without exception, is prejudice in one way or another. Whether you consciously acknowledge it or not, everyone holds some stereotype or other about most other people in the world.

On Amia, this isn't so. Political correctness and lack of bias is a mainstay on Amia. Most players, in my experience, are of the opinion that the Amian world should work like the modern-day judicial system of most countries. Innocent until proven guilty. Whether the character is a happy, tree-hugging elf, or a quite, brooding, dagger-wielding drow, most characters look at a lack of overt evilness as a sign that the character is good, without taking stereotypes into account. This is often attributed to the atmosphere of Amia, but we have to remember that the opinion of the populace, especially growing up, has a heavy affect on how we view other cultures and people.

A few real-world examples. We'll go back to the days when slavery was legal. Since, chances are, this would become an anti-US thread if I said, "1850s" or something, we'll go back to the 1700's when it was legal throughout more of the world. In most cases, during the time, people were good, moral, kind-hearted people, who wouldn't really be able to handle the idea of having someone just as intelligent and free-thinking as they were condemned to a life of servitude. Therefore, the prevalent line of thought was that Africans were sub-human. They weren't intelligent, or free-thinking. On their own, all they were capable of was rape, murder, and meaningless shouting.

Now, there were, of course, black people who proved themselves to be very intelligent, and just as capable as white people. The white people might not view them as "just as capable", but they might acknowledge the intelligence of this particular black person, but they would do so as an exception. All black people are stupid beasts except this one.

The same goes for war. We'll take World War II. Soldiers, whether American, English, Russian, German, Japanese, or whatever, were all humans. They had wives, and children, and pets, and everything. The only real difference between most of that they were on opposing sides. Of course, being humans, most of them had some form of morals, which generally prevented them from killing other humans. Everyone knows how much death harms loved ones, and very few people want to see that, let alone be the cause of it. So, instead of thinking, "I'm killing some humans", people thought, "I'm killing these Jap animals", and they attributed horrible things to them, to ease their own consciences about killing them.

The same thing goes for the races of Faerun, especially the former example. Surfacers in general are taught from birth that things like drow, and goblins, and kobolds are evil, horrible creatures that kill your men, rape your women, eat your children, and steal your gold. There's one major difference, though, between the real world version and the Faerun version.

Other than the Nazis (Godwin's Law not invoked, learn the meaning), most of the people involved in World War II, and most of the black people, weren't anything like the stereotypes suggested. In Faerun, the stereotypes reflect real things. With the exception of a very small percentile, most drow, goblins, kobolds, orcs, dragons, troglodytes, gibbering mouthers, ettins, dark mantles, and nearly every other monster in the land -do- want to kill your men, rape your women, eat your children, and steal your gold. If you see, in the real world, a band of black people, your first instinct might be that they're a gang, but in reality, they're probably just a bunch of people hanging out. If you see, in Faerun, a band of drow, your first instinct might be that they're a raiding party, and in reality, they probably are.

That's something I don't see considered very often. People might take into account those views, but they consider them precisely like my example, without the major difference stated. They view their characters as somehow progressive, or superior, by realizing that not all the members of the race are evil, but they forget that the vast majority of the race are, in fact, evil.

Long story short... players who have this urge to be politically correct have simply not grasped that not being nice is not the other player's shortcoming, it's a bloody act. Sure you can demonstrate how progressive you are by having it ooze out every skin pore of your Buddha-like character, but you're doing worse than just being nice, you are breaking character.

Thank you, Xordae. Excellently done paraphrasing, and frankly, I'm impressed that you read my entire post.

I'm impressed he did too. Lord knows I could only get about half way.

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

I didn't
But I'd have understood you well of course...

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I see these threads talking of other people's rp come up and the first thought into my mind is if people put half the effort into being constructive instead of bitching about things and instead wrote submitted descriptions for the subraces, common racial traits, and common racial hatreds, and short stories explaining a 'typical' whatever the thingum is, it'd help more than bloviating.

I'm a lore junkie and absolutely love that aspect of D&D, but I understand that I'm a strange person to like to learn such things and one should make such information easily to read and accessable for the masses.

You also have to keep in mind that people might be going off the in game descriptions of things, too, and you -can't- hold them responsible for not being experienced enough to know that what the game tells them is wrong, and go look up the 'right' way.

The fastest way to get a man to 'Tell you something', is contradict him.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

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Of course you're right, Dwagin. But 1) People (I) have to vent frustration and 2) Google is always just one click away. There exists a wealth of information on Wikipedia regarding all aspects of FR lore, there is the d20 SRD to look at, and tons more.

There is a horrible trend where people demand that information is either spoon-fed to them or they go lie on their back and whimper. Why promote this? You either have the drive to improve your RP or you do not. In between is just an excuse for laziness.

Problem with that; Drow already are running short on players.
Aye; limitations will increase the rp level of drow, but doing such; i'd think that the drow in the Amian setting will need a revision.

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Hmh, I just made a mean post that would apply here, too.

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As is complaining without at least doing something constructive to try fix it yourself.

Its obvious it isn't going to be fixed by just talking at it, it hasn't after all these years.

So often in these cases people complain and say, 'Someone Should Fix this!'

Someone often means: Someone other than me and likely the DM's who volunteer their time to try to help us have fun.

Why make them fething do more work that is like a second job?


Contribute some of that excess passion to the community... obviously people care enough to complain, and that is why they do... but make it a creative rather than destructive and divisive force.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

If you feel strongly about people playing a race right, write guides on the race(With source material backup and the knowledge that people might not give a damn, of course), don't whine about how horrible these people are for not doing what you personally think the race is.

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Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."

Well...... thats not going to work, is it...

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

Hm. I /guess/ not. Back to complaining, I suppose.

Bawwwww.

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Gahnn Bluetusk
Aleksandr Vespermouth II
"Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."

Sorry, this is not a freeform forum RP but a game with a clearly defined setting and rules.

The age old "You or anyone else can not tell me how things should be" fingerpointing is getting boring.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

Amia is such a lighthearted setting that sometimes I think the only thing you can do is, actually, giggle about it. Amia is a forgiving land, a refugee, a fantasy land, nothing compared to the harsh mainland Faerun is. Thats not the Devs or DMs fault, its the playerbase. If we had a darker setting (the playerbase, again), "proper" racism and race specific lore would not be so out of proportion.

Guides don't help either, you can't force people to not play like in the sims online or teletubbyland with their pointyeared anime extensions of their self.

Even if you plat.coin every race except NWN standard races, doesn't solve the problem.

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GM "Roll a new sheet, you died for blasphemy."
P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?"
*dice roll for chart*
GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship."
P1 "...so new character you say?"

i have a question, why dont the duergar or svirfneblin start in the underdark, i mean like in thier own little cities?

They can in Underport. Only there are no lowbie quests to do there and is bloody hard to leave at that low level.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Unless the DM staff comes out and says, 'All Race x must act x way' they can play however the hell they want. No other player has the right to say otherwise, doing so anyway makes you look elitist.

While people do have a right to an opinion, they don't have a right to publicly criticize others for their playstyle, even IF it breaks the rules. That in essence is the spirit of Amia as operated by the staff, in my experience.

I operate under the assumption that the vast majority of people aren't twunts trying to piss me off.

I prefer to try to look at others from a point of view that they're putting forth effort and trying to have fun, even if they're not 'totally kosher' with D&D dogma, I don't care. That is not the spirit of Amia in my mind.

Fun is what RPing is about, experiencing fantastic things vicariously, using your imagination. I got my start in Freeform RP, over a decade ago, however I can also fully appreciate lore and the value of adhereance to general racial traits for narrative purposes.

Being 'different' has always been a fad, it always will be, just like any other literary cliches you see used over and over again. If that is how they have their fun, let them.

Sticking to a hardline dogmatic approach makes for the cookie-cutter PCs. It is a great tactic for NPCs. 'Oh its a snarky aloof elf, seen that before.' 'Oh its a grouchy dwarf that curses and huffs alot!' But PCs should be more robust.

PC's are suppose to be the exception to the normal man in D&D, but by that same token there is also a huge case of Deus Mia going on: forgetting that the world doesn't just revolve around our PCs alone.

The narrative we RP in is more than the PC's involved, one can become overly focused on that though as we don't 'see' the thousands of NPC's around, just the players, and static npcs and the few we interact with via a DM. Its something that can be a hard concept to wrap one's head around.

Cordor is suppose to have 30,000+ people population, if I recall. It's not some hamlet. I think it's okay for some of our PCs' exceptional status to be a bit exceptional in action, even in behaviors.. not just combat prowess. However, that's just my feelings.

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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.

-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.

Buuuuut.....if you're svirfneblin, my pc's will generally help you out (including my svirfnelin) just to the point that you can get a level or two and be safely on your own. Driarry in particular helps all svirf's (she's one herself!).

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

Basically, you are right. But "People's lore needs fixing" to me leads invariably to the conclusion of "People's behaviour needs improving", not "I go find all the lore and lay it at their doorstep".

It's good to gather lore and post it for the purpose of other people benefitting from it. But when you deal with folks who would not take out of their own energy and time to get there, then why should you take out of yours just to make it easy for them (reward their behaviour)?

Everyone has the responsibility to make their character a part of the Forgotten Realms universe. How he goes about this is all up to him. Some people like doing heaps of research beforehand, others just take the bare bones of a character concept and let the rest grow as they play him. I don't wanna damn the newbies here, because I started out as a rookie Drow myself with not much clue about anything.

D&D is arguably the biggest, most well known roleplaying game system. "What is Faerûn? What are its races?" is a question answered in miniscule detail on the internet, and not hard to find. Maybe it's a little too much that I expect every player to ask himself this question at one point in time. Or maybe the too much part is that I expect everyone to hit Google, type in the word, go to the Wikipedia link that is among the first four links, hit (disambiguation) if need be and voilà.

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Mostly Retired

soundofastream wrote
Buuuuut.....if you're svirfneblin, my pc's will generally help you out (including my svirfnelin) just to the point that you can get a level or two and be safely on your own. Driarry in particular helps all svirf's (she's one herself!).


My thanks for the offer, but i dont think ill be doing a svirf for a bit now, gotta lvl my drag- i mean human!! *sweat*

Picture this: We're playing basketball. One player(player A) wants to play. Player A has never played basketball. Player A grabs the ball and throws it in the opposing teams basket every time. Player A wanders with the ball out of bounds, because h doesn't recognize any bounds.

Player A goal tends, double dribbles, runs out of bounds, and makes other shots for the team, cause player A doesn't know jack s**t about basketball. Player A is ruining the game....for EVEYONE.


That's why people should know their race. Because when you don't play right, then you have:

Good drow
Cute Kobolds
Cute goblins
Good kobolds
Good Goblins
Friendly Dracoliches
Friendly tieflings
Pretty demons
Friendly demons
friendly devils
Immature elves
Evil paladins
Thieving paladins

Oh and of course evil Amia drow. Unlike Faeruns drow, who are intelligent and devious, clever, and manipulative, Amias evil drow are the exact antithesis. Lying, stealing, killing, and thinking...are crimes, and never done by the Ultrinnans drow. Laws are strictly obeyed to the letter. Any plan that involves more than one step does not exist and any who thinks of one, thinks too much and will die. Ultrinnan drow have no time for developed plots, and therefore resort to bland, overdone sacrifices(I feel more sorry for the DMs who have to submit themselves to this more and more).

And then there's the person who says "But he's a very polite Fiend....really" And then the Fiend in question smiles with a twinkle of love in his eye and says, "I'm a pacifist."


Folks this is called...chaos.

Wait, doesnt that mean the Ultrinnyr Drow are actually doing the best job on the entire server?

And: I see what you're trying to say about the Drow, and I can see the OOC frustration seething through in every post you make, but it's really not correct, except for the part about sacrifices being boring, but that's a personal opinion.

Just like this entire topic, incidentally.

Sidenote: You need to get over being butthurt over all of this. Every post you make practically drips with irritation and sarcasm because of some years gone by grudge or perceived slight that you hold to your breast so that you can pull it out in an arguement. Let it go.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I have to agree with Tormak.

Yes, Amia does not quite follow traditional Faerun. There is work to helping bringing it closer to line , but not in an attempt to ruin the fun of those who want to go off tradition and have some fun.

So what?

I find, being a bit off kilter and slowly researching a particular deity/race has been more rewarding then worrying so strictly about following a dogma. *Vaelmith is a good example of this*

You're right about that, Torm. But that long dead(not really because those same.......players are still leading Ultrinnan under one of the many Alts they have) grudge is not the only reason why. It's because when I see ultrinnan I see a place that could be ripe with the best and most intriguing RP around...and when I see the kind of RP that generates from it, I lament what could be.

I dunno, everyone in the Ghaunadaur faction lurved the Sacrifice we did last night, even the elfy we fed to the oozes seemed to enjoy the experience. His PC even 'willingly' gave himself to Ghaunadaur....*hides the dominate spell*...You just have to get creative is all....and the Gelatinuous Cube was well fed...

I just see saccy RP as kind of like, the everyday staple diet (well for the Ghaunadaur lot). The idea behind it is, feed unbelievers to the Eye, Eye gives us power in return, with power we build a base, gather new converts, grow and dominate our own area on Amia so that we can saccy even MORE people to the Eye. Kind of like a conveyor belt experience into a great big Maw...

Think of it this way, Underdark subraces all get together with a common purpose. I can't speak for the Llothite Drow and how they run things in Ultrinnan, but from what I've seen, Ultrinnan is far too lawful for my liking, hence why I don't play a Llothite. If you like the subrace, build something with your race and there's more to the Underdark than just one race or one city.

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

Meh, I still play a drow, just not one in Ultrinnan, and he's NOT good.

I usually just avoid Ultrinnan now, for it seems everytime I go there some problem arises out of thin air....Meh.


PS I hope all goes well with the worshippers of Ghaunadaur. Quar'agh's best friend, Krastitch, was a follower of Ghaunadaur...and a good RPr...

I wish he was still around....I really liked Krastitch...he was like a pet......thing.

My case is different. I go to Ultrinnan coz I made the personal preference my character's going to stay underground as much as possible. my timezone's not very forgiving either when it comes to RP interaction.


The Drow are probably getting tired of shouting "Filthy Iblith" or "slave race move out of my way" or "slave vacate your seat" or "*Shoves nose high in the air at the larger creature and walks on*" or "Disgusting Kivvil" or "Bow you filthy kivvil" or "*stares dumbfoundly at the creature*" or "*spits at the kivvil*" or "I am a priestess, your chest pounding is utter disrespect to me" or "...you don't have anything to sell? Rubbish get out of my city" or "Vanguard I casted light on it and it's thrashing around wildly" or "*...walks away*" to the Orog sitting in their bar all the time. Then again... if they stopped to have a chat with him, they'd quickly realise why Orogs and Drow have fairly good relations down below in the Underdark. (AKA they aren't throwing weapons at each other on first sight like say... Goblins and Kobolds.)

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

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