Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: in the factories and mills, in the shipyards and mines
When certain things come up in the lines of rp, one of my pcs often seeks to make a bit of coin. One of the tasks id like to learn is the art of setting up bets and taking odds for fights, outcomes of wars etc. Mainly however its for a sports entertainment purpose ala combat events.
The only problem is im not to familar with the art that is betting. I mean i myself have only ever been to a Horse track once or twice and even then really didnt know what the heck i was doing. To make this as accurate and as fun for both those involved as well as the players themselves i was curious if anyone out there in amian history has had a successful run with these types of things. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
KISS is the principle you should apply to betting/gambling in Amia. The lots and stats betting used at the horse and dog tracks is too complicated for even a couple of players to successfully manage, so I won't bother trying to explain it in any detail. Sports betting would be fun, but it is also about as complex (plugging in wins and losses and calcuating for and against based on the number of bids one way or the other). It would be fun because you could have PCs who know their shit and can say, "Such and such a gladiator is having a great season, but he suffered a blow to the knee in the last tourney, so anyone going for the legs has a higher chance of winning the match."
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
Craig Deathwalker/Ray Rodgers ran an event of the sort a while ago in the Sanctuary of Sin.
There was a lot of gambling and even arena stuff.
Send him a PM about it.
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya
i made a lot of money at that tournie.
_________________ Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare' Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words
Ive won and lost 1 million gold pieces before on betting.
What we used to do (that is Malice and Naref when they had a friendly bet...) was Naref would proposition to her the terms, and then they'd both put a fixed stake on it. At the end of the event/fight/whatever the loser paid the winner the money and everyone was happy.
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
And I lost about 5 mill though it was all good fun lol,
As for twinking rules for gambling, I have never gone by them for gambling. It's a risk to the player and not a free gift, if there willing to throw away the coin Im more than happy to reward them with my hard earned gp lol.
As for the odds etc, I never did much merely 2/1 with a maxinum 50k cap. Granted I lost alot of money from that event, but my rewards where amazing.
Anyway keep an eye out i'll be hosting another fight night soon enough
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Craig deathwalker wrote:
Zanthair wrote:
i made a lot of money at that tournie.
And I lost about 5 mill though it was all good fun lol,
As for twinking rules for gambling, I have never gone by them for gambling. It's a risk to the player and not a free gift, if there willing to throw away the coin Im more than happy to reward them with my hard earned gp lol.
As for the odds etc, I never did much merely 2/1 with a maxinum 50k cap. Granted I lost alot of money from that event, but my rewards where amazing.
Anyway keep an eye out i'll be hosting another fight night soon enough :D
I'd want to check that with a DM ... it sounds very risky towards breaking the rules.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
I'd want to check that with a DM ... it sounds very risky towards breaking the rules.
The rule is against giving people things they haven't earned. If you buy 30 heal potions from someone, you don't have to ask what their level is before you pay them. Unless you're doing something obviously silly like "I bet you 50,000 gold pieces the sun won't rise tomorrow" (which is similar to "I'll pay you 100,000 gold coins for this unenchanted longsword), I would not think anything was wrong about bets over the cap, since it isn't twinking/gift-giving/whatever.
But now that you've brought it up, I would be interested in hearing from a DM.
And I lost about 5 mill though it was all good fun lol,
As for twinking rules for gambling, I have never gone by them for gambling. It's a risk to the player and not a free gift, if there willing to throw away the coin Im more than happy to reward them with my hard earned gp lol.
As for the odds etc, I never did much merely 2/1 with a maxinum 50k cap. Granted I lost alot of money from that event, but my rewards where amazing.
Anyway keep an eye out i'll be hosting another fight night soon enough
I'd want to check that with a DM ... it sounds very risky towards breaking the rules.
The event's I host have an entrance fee, There is risk and there is also reward. I honestly do not see the problem if someone can afford a 50k bet, then handing back 100k is hardly anything to them. If they place 3 bets at 50k, loose two win one they have broke even, I hardly think that is twinking or in any way to there advantage for future hunting etc.
Wow, can't we enjoy a little good Role Play instead of turning over rocks trying to find OOC rules to invalidate it? Really, gambling is not twinking. A "lowbie" shouldn't be awarded more than 3 times his net worth unless something really spectacular happened and the odds were greater than 3 to 1! This lowbie also shouldn't have very much money either so if they are making "tons of money" they are really lucky and deserve what ever money they are getting.
Okay. So it is allowed to hand ludicrous sums of over over to lowbies if they won it in a bet (which I am just going to presume isn't fixed)?
That must mean that the odds were ludicrous to begin with, since the lowbie doesn't have that much money to put in. If the lowbie bets with such crazy odds (I know too little about betting myself), then he deserves to have his money, simply because he is crazy. This is my opinion, and I'm sure there are DMs who disagree with me.
The fact that the team hasn't reacted to gambling on Amia before means that we think it is a positive activity for your PCs, most probably.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Rightyo then! I'll have to work on some probability tables ... gambling doesn't exist if it doesn't favour the house ..which is a nice position for the lowbie to be in
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
A lowbie "house" would blow it a couple nights in. The Huge Casinos make money because they can handle the variations in day to day gambling. 3 people might win the 7 million jack pot in one night. The huge casino can take that loss and eventually make it back in the long run ending with more money.
Anyone without that huge cash sum would go bankrupt when luck isn't with them. Your fears of millionaire lowbie gamblers isn't realistic at all.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Phantom-D wrote:
A lowbie "house" would blow it a couple nights in. The Huge Casinos make money because they can handle the variations in day to day gambling. 3 people might win the 7 million jack pot in one night. The huge casino can take that loss and eventually make it back in the long run ending with more money.
Anyone without that huge cash sum would go bankrupt when luck isn't with them. Your fears of millionaire lowbie gamblers isn't realistic at all.
Of course, because casinos all start out with millions of dollars.
You naturally start with low bets, and build your way up ... none of those casinos went and killed monsters for their money, they got it because idiots thought they were playing an even field.
Dice rolls are a good example:
2d6: Six or less you win, greater than six, house wins
This, for example, works with people who think the average on a d6 is 3. It isn't - it's 3.5. This brings your 50/50 chance down to a 15 vs 21 against. But you'd be paid as if it were 50/50
Which is brings up my annoyance that they decided to add another null-roll to roulette wheels recently, even though I don't gamble ... it's just robbery *fumes*
Edit: Stupid bloody code ...
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
Actually yes, almost every casino DOES start out with millions of dollars. You think they worked up from 60:40 odds on nickels?
If you make a lowbie and have a million dollars from running your own casino, it would be an amazing feat. Even when odds are even I have trouble getting people to gamble. Now you are hoping the people don't know the odds aren't even AND they are willing to slowly be grinded away with low bets.
It is an interesting thought experiment but it wouldn't happen.
Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: in the factories and mills, in the shipyards and mines
thanks all but ive pretty much figured it out what to do from the posts, feel free to lock, lord knows we dont want yurell spamming anymore than normal
thanks all but ive pretty much figured it out what to do from the posts, feel free to lock, lord knows we dont want yurell spamming anymore than normal
Considering the fact that the posts are both pertinent and relevant to the topic, I would venture to say that deriding them as spamming is just a little rude.
Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Location: Goldcoast, Australia
Signe Johanne wrote:
Yurell wrote:
Okay. So it is allowed to hand ludicrous sums of over over to lowbies if they won it in a bet (which I am just going to presume isn't fixed)?
That must mean that the odds were ludicrous to begin with, since the lowbie doesn't have that much money to put in. If the lowbie bets with such crazy odds (I know too little about betting myself), then he deserves to have his money, simply because he is crazy. This is my opinion, and I'm sure there are DMs who disagree with me. ;)
The fact that the team hasn't reacted to gambling on Amia before means that we think it is a positive activity for your PCs, most probably.
Or we didnt see it? im unsure weather this would be twinking or not, Craig defenetly should have got DM approval before hand IMO.
Just not worring about the rule because its gambeling isnt the way ta go about it. though i can see how a bet can quite easily get above the 20k mark when you bring in things like odds or there could be a 10k bet on the table then go double or nothing..
I see myself bringing myself around to the idea, but perhaps a betting cap s in order to make sure its not Twinking.. something for the whole team to talk about i recon
Okay. So it is allowed to hand ludicrous sums of over over to lowbies if they won it in a bet (which I am just going to presume isn't fixed)?
That must mean that the odds were ludicrous to begin with, since the lowbie doesn't have that much money to put in. If the lowbie bets with such crazy odds (I know too little about betting myself), then he deserves to have his money, simply because he is crazy. This is my opinion, and I'm sure there are DMs who disagree with me.
The fact that the team hasn't reacted to gambling on Amia before means that we think it is a positive activity for your PCs, most probably.
Or we didnt see it? im unsure weather this would be twinking or not, Craig defenetly should have got DM approval before hand IMO.
Just not worring about the rule because its gambeling isnt the way ta go about it. though i can see how a bet can quite easily get above the 20k mark when you bring in things like odds or there could be a 10k bet on the table then go double or nothing..
I see myself bringing myself around to the idea, but perhaps a betting cap s in order to make sure its not Twinking.. something for the whole team to talk about i recon
Any event I have held with regards to fight night has been DM supervised. Betting with dice or on PC's is something of chance, more so if it is PC vs NPC fighter.
I still maintain my arguement that this is far from twinking, with hunting there is risk against reward. The same rule applies here for gambling you risk debt, to gain more gold. I have had characters take loans to satisfy there urges to gamble.
This is an RP server, and with the economy in such disarray, the constant complaints of there being no alternatives to gaining gold through RP. I see this as an improvement to the server and not something that should be looked at with a microscope to find every flaw. Common sense as stated by many of the DM team works fine in this instance.
No arguements with you there. And dont get me wrong I like the idae of an alternative way of earning gold like that.
I suppose the thing that really bothers me is the idea of 'mainstream' betting in a server which essentially has a PG rating. There are some things which are expressly forbidden and I just dont know wether gambling as such falls into that category.
For what it is worth I hope it doesnt, but I would like to be sure first.
No arguements with you there. And dont get me wrong I like the idae of an alternative way of earning gold like that.
I suppose the thing that really bothers me is the idea of 'mainstream' betting in a server which essentially has a PG rating. There are some things which are expressly forbidden and I just dont know wether gambling as such falls into that category.
For what it is worth I hope it doesnt, but I would like to be sure first.
If betting is seen as something not to be found on a "PG" (and i mean that term very very loosely) server then the children best all sit around saying ring a ring a roses.
In a persistant world where evil and good are allowed to be played, where devils demons and dragons all exist I highly doubt gambling is a priority.
I can agree with the banning of cyber and extreme torture rp, I do not think they contribute to the character developement or other players roleplay. It's the reason that those things where removed after all, it was not to everyones cup of tea.
But where addictions to drug's and gambling are both incorporated into character developement and incorporate other players. I do not think that they are worth worrying about with regards to the "PG" setting.
I am inclined to agree with you, but what you think and what I think is completly irrelevant to what the 'owners' and the team are inclined to think and approve.
The idea of low level fun gambling I think is fine but when you get to the stage of serious odds and systems being played, then I think we will all feel safer just to hear that it is alright to do such.
It could lead the kiddies into starting Fight Nights at school?
As long as the odds and payouts are fixed and stated ahead of time, I see no problem. If a lowbie has 100 gp to bet and wins, he receives the appropriate payout. If for some reason he's managed to accumulate 100 times that and bets it all, he'll get 100 times the payout. Same risk/reward ratio and it's based entirely on how much money is put into the pot in the first place. So level is irrelevant except insofar as lower-level characters tend to have less money. But not necessarily.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~ Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer Bolt AmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
The server is rated and set within the general area of PG guidance as per NWN's. It expressly forbids the use of cyber in any context and reference to or rp'ing of sexual acts ie rape and so on and so forth.
Low level gambling and such things, games of chance for small sums seem fine to me and no questions asked as there has never been a problem until now...
...But if you are to leave aside the twinking laws and then consider that there are age limitations in every civilised country in the world about minors and gambling, I really dont think we would want to run the risk of crossing that boundary ... even though nothing 'physical' changes hands the linked emotions generate the same kind of impulses that gambling in rl does.
And this I only mention cause Mr Mago there brought it up. I have seen other servers where gambling anything over 10,000 or so is expressly forbidden.
*shrugs* Just in answer to your question anyways. I am not saying it is right or that I agree with it. But I am a player on conscionce I am afraid.
Except, in real life, you gamble with real money. The type of money you need to survive (food, roof over your head, prostitu-... eh, you get the idea).
Seriously.
These morality issues are complete bullshit. It's OK for the 13-year olds to run around and murder each others characters, in often brutal fashions... but fictional gambling wouldn't be appropriate?
Any server that puts a limit to gambling (which isn't related to rules of twinking) is just self-delusional.
These morality issues are complete (censored). It's OK for the 13-year olds to run around and murder each others characters, in often brutal fashions... but fictional gambling wouldn't be appropriate?
Any server that puts a limit to gambling (which isn't related to rules of twinking) is just self-delusional.
Quite right, but then you could also such for -all- the so called 'adult' activities couldnt you?
No, because when you "cyber" you run the risk of being 26 years old, cybering with a 13-year old, effectively making you a pedophile (without you possibly knowing).
there clearly isnt a moral issue with gambling, that's ridiculous. its fake gambling, remember? even granting gambling is bad (which I am not), there is no more moral issue than with the fake killing all our evil toons do.
_________________ "Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
Joined: 29 Jan 2008 Location: in the factories and mills, in the shipyards and mines
needless to say this will probably be happening, i merely wished to know the best way to go about implementing this. Im hoping to offer a fun way to rp for peoples pcs, and hope all who get a chance to be involved have fun
Morality over gambling (fake) money, yes? I don't see how that doesn't co-relate with the "Morality" of running around gutting hundreds of (fake) creatures on a day-to-day basis.
The problem with waiting for the DM team's opinion is that you won't hear it until they are ready to give it, until then you have your fellow players opinions to debate with.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
I agree with Athyonn - is it so much to ask for an official rubber stamp saying that we can do it?
Mr Mago wrote:
Except, in real life, you gamble with real money. The type of money you need to survive (food, roof over your head, prostitu-... eh, you get the idea).
Seriously.
These morality issues are complete (censored). It's OK for the 13-year olds to run around and murder each others characters, in often brutal fashions... but fictional gambling wouldn't be appropriate?
Any server that puts a limit to gambling (which isn't related to rules of twinking) is just self-delusional.
That can be argued for any of the rules. It's okay for a 13 year old to go out and brutally slaughter monsters, but not engage in gentle, intimate acts with a kind lover? Quite obviously the DM team has agreed that it is.
Quote:
...But if you are to leave aside the twinking laws and then consider that there are age limitations in every civilised country in the world about minors and gambling, I really dont think we would want to run the risk of crossing that boundary ... even though nothing 'physical' changes hands the linked emotions generate the same kind of impulses that gambling in rl does.
This is true, since you are definitely risking something. Since it is illegal to gamble below a certain age in numerous countries, is that not what cybering was banned for?
Edit: I don't know about the US, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but here under-age sex is not illegal (sex between two consenting minors within two years of eachother's age), under-age gambling is.
All we are asking for is the DM team to state:
It is / is not alright to gamble without limit on this server.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
Last edited by Yurell on Mon, Apr 13 2009, 0:59 AM, edited 1 time in total.
I agree with Athyonn - is it so much to ask for an official rubber stamp saying that we can do it?
Mr Mago wrote:
Except, in real life, you gamble with real money. The type of money you need to survive (food, roof over your head, prostitu-... eh, you get the idea).
Seriously.
These morality issues are complete (censored). It's OK for the 13-year olds to run around and murder each others characters, in often brutal fashions... but fictional gambling wouldn't be appropriate?
Any server that puts a limit to gambling (which isn't related to rules of twinking) is just self-delusional.
That can be argued for any of the rules. It's okay for a 13 year old to go out and brutally slaughter monsters, but not engage in gentle, intimate acts with a kind lover? Quite obviously the DM team has agreed that it is.
Quote:
...But if you are to leave aside the twinking laws and then consider that there are age limitations in every civilised country in the world about minors and gambling, I really dont think we would want to run the risk of crossing that boundary ... even though nothing 'physical' changes hands the linked emotions generate the same kind of impulses that gambling in rl does.
This is true, since you are definitely risking something. Since it is illegal to gamble below a certain age in numerous countries, is that not what cybering was banned for?
All we are asking for is the DM team to state:
It is / is not alright to gamble without limit on this server.
Your compairing two completely different things here, underage cybering where players risk performing a sexual relationship unknowingly/or knowingly is illegal full stop.
Underage gambling however is illegal only when actual money changes hands. This is a fantasy world that is free, there is no gain RL or loss RL through fantasy money being exchanged nothing of value changes hands. It is for our own enjoyment.
Commen sense rule applies here as said before. Wasting DM time on something that need not be looked into is pointless and let's be honest raising your post count through worthless debate is tiresome.
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Craig deathwalker wrote:
Commen sense rule applies here as said before. Wasting DM time on something that need not be looked into is pointless
How is this wasting DM time? If it is so obviously 'common sense' they can just rubber-stamp it straight away and no time wasted. If it isn't common sense, then it's not a waste of DM time.
Craig deathwalker wrote:
and let's be honest raising your post count through worthless debate is tiresome.
I don't cuss often, so please take it to heart when I say:
Get Fucked.
This is not about raising my post count, so how about you try finding other people's personal opinions on this sort of thing and how it has affected their lives before you go insulting them.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
The only way it would be considered twinking, i think, is if epic character A engaged in a ridiculous one-sided bet with their friend's lowbie character B, basically making up an IC "reason" to give the gold to from A to B.
Epic: "I bet one million gold that the stout dwarf beats the trio of elven shadowdancers in the first moments of the fight!"
Lowbie: "I will take that wager!" // *only has 33k*
Battle ensues. Dwarf = pwned.
Epic: "Oh fiddlesticks! I have lost the wager, woe is me! Here is the gold, as promised..." // *winks several times*
_________________ "Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
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