AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

No.

Care to elaborate? What is the magic number? Keep in mind, this is just an extra benefit, not the extreme focus of the build.

65-70+ is what you want to be basically immune to KD.

TormakSaber wrote:

65-70+ is what you want to be basically immune to KD.

OK. Maybe these Epic Gloves are in the wrong hands :shock:

Yeah. Whhere Discipline is d20 + disc vs Total AB Roll of attacker, and you';re looking at 40-50 AB usually before the d20 is even added in, yuo need decently impressive discipline to avoid falling on your ass.

Hey, i checked it online, dont even need the epic gloves of discipline, for exemple, there is an helmet out there that gives +10 Discipline, restricted to rogue. It's fairly possible to buff discipline without the epic gloves.

Edit: Oh

TormakSaber wrote:

Not a time waster, saves on expenses, it's like there's no reason NOT to take it.

+1 feat!

TormakSaber wrote:

Your reskinned mummy dust will still be using negative energy so it really probably isn't the best choice. If you take Death Domain, you'll have something just as sexy and not dogma endangering.

I thought the Negative Plane Avatar was a shadow... isn't that just as negative? Also I need those domains to keep to the intended RP feel of the character. Kind of thought that having Kellie domains devoted to the characters story would make up for the re-skin in a way.

EDIT: Bow to greater wisdom here, Tormak is right

Protection domain is crap really. The only great thing about it, is the prayer bonus, but every next Kelemvorite has it, we don't really need more. Just take Death domain, it will save an epic feat.

If I re-skin the Death Domain summons into my Shield Guardian it will give me the same RP deal I'm after. It will also allow me to make a Dev Criting Battle Cleric Of Kelemvor. Is 29 cleric/ 1 fighter worth making? The fighter level is for the weapon feat and can wind up with a solid caster level, dev crit and my re-skinned Shadowlord. Yay or Nay? Opinions, feedback?

i *think* you need 2 fighter, 1 for overwhelming crit and the second for devcrit

Dev. Crit isn't worth it. Especially for a cleric, they're really tight on feats.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Dev. Crit isn't worth it. Especially for a cleric, they're really tight on feats.

I agree about clerics being tight on feats, but disagree on devcrit if the concept is melée battle cleric. I've never seen a melée fighter other than Stillborn-style super weapon masters for whom devcrit was redundant, and have seen a fair number who used it as their main tool.

If you advise against devcrit for a battle cleric though, I assume you're suggesting Divine Might instead? I would think strength-based is better, because it adds to your damage and AB all day without a tedious buff sequence, and gives you fewer Abilities you have to keep maximized.

Str based cleric with divine might, divine shield, extra turning, 29th caster level and dev. crit... wait and see

Dev Crit on a Cleric of Kelemvor, that uses a Warhammer? Kelemvorites are supposed to be Undead killers. Undead are immune to Dev Crit. Undead are not immune to Divine Might. As well as boosting the duration of your Might/Shield, the more Charisma you have the more damage you do for longer and the more uses of Turn Undead you have (Turn Undead is also stronger with more Charisma, though I'm not sure if that means much on Amia). Dev Crit also costs almost half of your total Feats.

The Incognitos wrote:

Str based cleric with divine might, divine shield, extra turning, 29th caster level and dev. crit... wait and see

Please, no? Whatever you do, forget Dev. Crit! Not worth it on a cleric. Especially if you're going with a warhammer.

I'd agree on RP and MEchanical grounds.

Yeah, i feel that dev is totally feat wasting on a cleric which will undoubtedly pull 50 + damage per hit anyway and self buffs its haste.

25str 18cha and 20wisdom which is what it would require doesn't seem possible without RDD anyway and anything less than 18cha on a cleric (a BG gets away with with 14) makes divine shield pointless.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

Dev Crit on a Cleric of Kelemvor, that uses a Warhammer? Kelemvorites are supposed to be Undead killers.

Kelemvorites are more then just undead killers are they not? I thought they were also the kind of people that you would find administering the last rights, ensuring a peaceful transition to the 'next world', and (in a Battle Cleric capacity at least) leading unseasoned troops and conscripts into battle. If God be with us...

I would assume this is one of the reasons LE is an available alignment for Kelemvor. A Cleric of Kelemvor would certainly fight for an 'evil' army as to ensure the proper transition of souls from the material plane to Kelemvors judgement. Dev. Crit. is certainly a way to ensure this.

The warhammer is more of an aesthetic choice but is still one I am not likely to change. He's a Battlefield Cleric... he can't have a poxy rapier or longsword... must have a big smashing warhammer. Added to that I don't want to be getting a dev crit roll every attack... dev crit is good enough as it is without getting them on a 13 or 15. That's too much for my humble Cleric

QUESTION; Do the Divine Might and Divine Shield feats go off you base Cha modifier or your enhanced modifier? I'll take them both even if it is only base mod, just for the visuals if nothing else. Though with Cha 14 what will they actually do?

They go of enchanced mod and with a 14 base cha that means you enhanced cha is 26 so a modifier of 8.

Each point in the modifier adds 1 round to the length of your might casting.

Thus your cleric will have 8 rounds or 48 seconds of might/shield before requiring a recast.

Hey all, simple question, how many Use magic device ranks should I get on my Rogue/SD? What will give me the basic buff spells i want and what fun stuff can I recieve if I put more ranks in?

On the whole, how many would you recomend for an optimal build? Charisma is 8 btw.

Vaylek wrote:

Hey all, simple question, how many Use magic device ranks should I get on my Rogue/SD? What will give me the basic buff spells i want and what fun stuff can I recieve if I put more ranks in?

On the whole, how many would you recomend for an optimal build? Charisma is 8 btw.

I find a modified rank of 20 is sufficient, making it a total skill selection of 21 points with your -1. It does me good for most items in the game (that I have come across) but can be hard for very expensive alignment restricted items. Just to give you an idea, I have 20 and can use I think all items regardless of value unless there is an alignment restriction that I do not match. Able to carry a 100k + AA bow and such. You get the idea.

If alignment items matter, go more.

But seriously, as a rogue/SD, you'll likely want to stick with SD gear. That stuff rawks. Just consider exactly what it is you're wanting to be able to use with UMD. Heck, 6 points would get you all scrolls in the game I think.

Thanks for the reply Krytellan

Yeah I will mainly be using the SD gear, so i was going to use scrolls with UMD. Buffs and the like for pvp or really difficult hunting grounds, or scrolls of summon monster to help solo grind.

So you think I'll only need around 7 or 8 ranks for every scroll? Wow I think I have that already xD

I like going 30 UMD just to be able to use EVERYTHING in Amia.

The Incognitos wrote:

[snip]

The warhammer is more of an aesthetic choice but is still one I am not likely to change. He's a Battlefield Cleric... he can't have a poxy rapier or longsword... must have a big smashing warhammer. Added to that I don't want to be getting a dev crit roll every attack... dev crit is good enough as it is without getting them on a 13 or 15. That's too much for my humble Cleric

QUESTION; Do the Divine Might and Divine Shield feats go off you base Cha modifier or your enhanced modifier? I'll take them both even if it is only base mod, just for the visuals if nothing else. Though with Cha 14 what will they actually do?

If you're going STR-based, I would forget Divine Might and Divine Shield. You simply can't afford to boost your Strength, Charisma, Wisdom and Constitution without War domain. And even if you could, it wouldn't be worth those three feats.

And as the last friendly advice: If you're a properly built cleric, you deal approximately 150-200 damage on a critical. Your chance to Dev. your target in PvP will be 5% against a properly geared character. You deal about 50 damage with a regular attack and have at least 55 AB fully buffed with 5 attacks per round. Your chance to Dev. Crit is really wee.

I value Improved Knockdown more important for than Dev. Crit with those statistics.

5% isn't the worst odds...

It is when you're wasting almost 50% of your Feats to get it.

Haha, I guess if you want to take dev crit for some kind of RP reason... or you just imagine your character having it, then you should take it for sure!

These guys are just pointing out that it would drastically sub-optimise your toon.

And I must say I agree with them on this one xD

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you're a properly built cleric, you deal approximately 150-200 damage on a critical.

zomg.. Is that possible with a Cha based cleric (which I think is what I've got)? O.o

Vaylek wrote:

Haha, I guess if you want to take dev crit for some kind of RP reason... or you just imagine your character having it, then you should take it for sure!

These guys are just pointing out that it would drastically sub-optimise your toon.

And I must say I agree with them on this one xD

PAH! Warhammer of smashness! Maybe Knockdown instead of Divine Might? My Smashness Hammer is divinely mighty enough.

Does make a hell of an RP image... Warhammer of Smashness, Shield Guardian summons, righteousness up the Ying yang. I'm going to go and glare at a graveyard... dare it to wake up

Signe Johanne wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you're a properly built cleric, you deal approximately 150-200 damage on a critical.

zomg.. Is that possible with a Cha based cleric (which I think is what I've got)? O.o

That should be with a x3 crit weapon at least.

Yarp, that's what I meant.

Cha based clerics are possibly the most awesome thing ever.

I had an idea tumbling about in my brain but I can't seem to figure out how to make it a sexy build. Half-Orc Rogue/BG str build or Rogue/BG/Assassin. Admittedly i've fidgeted around and can find no real reason for Assassin so Rogue/BG is nice. The feats i've looks at is for going 14 Rogue 16 BG getting IKD, Imp Disarm, Blindfight, Epic Fiend, Crip Strike. Those are the fun ones also he'd be using a greatsword. So uh any thoughts ideas. Im sure we covered it long ago but I can't figure out how to do a narrowed search for it.

I don't think you have enough Ability Points and Feats to make that really viable, not on a Half-Orc anyway. Dropping Disarm and IKD, and the Int reqs that go with them, will make things a lot better and give you room for E/SF: Discipline (taking you to naked 54 Discipline).

Don't take disarm or blindfight, I had them on a Str based Rogue/Assassin, total waste.

You think Blind Fight was a waste only because you don't see what it's doing. It's pretty much an essential feat for melee Classes.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

You think Blind Fight was a waste only because you don't see what it's doing. It's pretty much an essential feat for melee Classes.

Doubly so for sneakers who fight in Darkness alot.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

The Incognitos wrote:

[snip]

The warhammer is more of an aesthetic choice but is still one I am not likely to change. He's a Battlefield Cleric... he can't have a poxy rapier or longsword... must have a big smashing warhammer. Added to that I don't want to be getting a dev crit roll every attack... dev crit is good enough as it is without getting them on a 13 or 15. That's too much for my humble Cleric

QUESTION; Do the Divine Might and Divine Shield feats go off you base Cha modifier or your enhanced modifier? I'll take them both even if it is only base mod, just for the visuals if nothing else. Though with Cha 14 what will they actually do?

If you're going STR-based, I would forget Divine Might and Divine Shield. You simply can't afford to boost your Strength, Charisma, Wisdom and Constitution without War domain. And even if you could, it wouldn't be worth those three feats.

And as the last friendly advice: If you're a properly built cleric, you deal approximately 150-200 damage on a critical. Your chance to Dev. your target in PvP will be 5% against a properly geared character. You deal about 50 damage with a regular attack and have at least 55 AB fully buffed with 5 attacks per round. Your chance to Dev. Crit is really wee.

I value Improved Knockdown more important for than Dev. Crit with those statistics.

I assume you're talking about a Cleric/RDD? A standard average cleric doesn't dish out that much damage. More like 20 to 30 on an average hit, going up to say 40 to 55 with the right gear/stats and criticalling for 80 to 100.

My Cleric/ZenAA maxes out at ~160 on a Crit with a Longbow and without Divine Might. AA 9 = +5 arrows which is no different than +5 GMW. 2d8 Elemental is actually less than what you would get from Epic gear + high level Darkfire (and I don't mean Epic loot, I mean the stuff you can get in the shops). Warhammers and Longbows are both x3 weapons, but the Longbow (mine at least) only allows for a +3 Str bonus from Mighty. A Str-based Cleric will be doing a lot more without the need for RDD levels at all.

soundofastream wrote:

I assume you're talking about a Cleric/RDD? A standard average cleric doesn't dish out that much damage. More like 20 to 30 on an average hit, going up to say 40 to 55 with the right gear/stats and criticalling for 80 to 100.

No he's not on a str based cleric it would be somewhat like this (26Cleric 4Fighter)

1-8 weapon damage
1d12 elemental
1d6 weapon bonus damage
5 enhance
5 divine favor
14 str mod
6 Epic Weapon Spec
2 Battletide
1 Prayer

Max 59
Minimum 36
Average 47.5
Adding in vulnerabilties a Kellie versus undead with a warhammer would be doing roughly 60 damage per hit against the standard Manor Undead.

A standard Divine Might Cleric (26 Cleric 4 Fighter)

1-8 weapon damage
1d12 elemental
1d6 weapon bonus damage
5 enhance
5 divine favor
8 str mod
6 Epic Weapon Spec
2 Battletide
1 Prayer
10 Divine Might

Max 61
Minimum 38
Average 49.5

My recently built caster cleric

1-8 weapon damage
1d12 elemental
1d6 weapon bonus damage
5 enhance
5 divine favor
8 str mod
2 Battletide
1 Prayer

Max 47
Minimum 24
Average 35.5
Wis Modifier: 14

Please note caster clerics are the -exception- not the rule.

My Anhuran Cleric in the Abyss struggles to pull 100 crits, but in the frozen wastes or against frosties with his 1d12 flame kicks out 150's averages 130 and thats with just an x2 critical weapon. And he doesn't have epic weapon spec nor an insanely high cha modifier (just 11).

No doubt i've left something out.

I was kinda wanting Disarm for the pvp aspect I mean if im a thuggish brawling type of minion and I get into a fight against a dev critter. Taking away their rapier of pointy instant kills kinda saves my arse no?

and yes Blindfight is a must for a darkness spammer. It also helps against those pesky imp invis'd targets.

The problem is that you're playing a Half-Orc (-2 Int, -2 Cha) Blackguard.

You need 13 Int for Disarm/IKD. Half Orcs get -2 Int so that's 15 at Character Creation.

Dark Blessing can give you negative saves so you need a minimum of 12 Cha to start with, to make up for the Half Orc penalty, and more if you intend to make use of one of the BG's major Class features.

You need 14 Wis to get all the BG goodness (badness) on Amia.

You also need Str...

Hello there,
I have one question concerning barbarian rage : are the strenght and constitution bonus included in the +12 capped modifer, or do they actualy stack beyond that?

Yeah the munchkin thing to do would be switch to wood elf (i think thats right)... the one that gets +2 str and -2 int only. But then you'd be playing a 5'5" pointy eared sissy instead of 200 pounds of half orc badass

*bitter about wood elves getting higher dev crit DC's than ogrillions*

pharax wrote:

Hello there,
I have one question concerning barbarian rage : are the strenght and constitution bonus included in the +12 capped modifer, or do they actualy stack beyond that?

This should answer to your question:

Whoever wrote this on the forums wrote:

Barbarian

The Barbarian is a brute of tremendous, if reckless power, thus his raging feats have been modified to reflect this. The following Rages replace the Normal and Greater rages, and work with the Thundering and Terrifying Rage feats, if you have them. Their duration is 5 + CON modifier rounds. The Intensity and Ferocity attacks are set by a widget that you can get from a DM.

Barbarian’s Rage

+1 bonus to Attack per 4 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +6.

+1 bonus to Damage per 4 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +5.

+1 bonus to Will saves per 8 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +3.

+3 hitpoints per Barbarian level.

+2 bonus to Fort saves

Penalized -2 to Armor Class. This is voided at Barbarian level 17 and above.

Intensity Attack

A focused Barbarian rage that channels their fury into raw speed, ignoring wounds as they blitz around the battlefield. Available at Level 10 barbarian.

+1 bonus to Attack per 4 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +6.

+1 bonus to Dodge AC per 8 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +3.

+3 hitpoints per Barbarian level.

+2 bonus to Reflex saves

+2 bonus to Fort saves

+2 Regenation / round

Ferocity Attack

A focused Barbarian rage that sends the barbarian into a true frenzy of whipping blades and destructive might. The price for pure offense however, is a lack of defense. Available at Level 15 barbarian.

+1 bonus to Attack per 4 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +6.

+1 bonus to Damage per 4 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +5.

+1 bonus to Will saves per 8 levels of Barbarian. Capped at +3.

+2 bonus to Reflex saves

Hasted

pharax wrote:

Hello there,
I have one question concerning barbarian rage : are the strenght and constitution bonus included in the +12 capped modifer, or do they actualy stack beyond that?

all ability boost count to the cap afaik.

I think it's only for AB that some ignore the cap. And maybe some skill-boosts.

Yeah well I was tinking about combining barb rage's attack bonus to the mighty rage's +8 str. That's why I was wondering if it went over the +12 cap. You see if it doesn't , then it isn't really useful, is it?

Mighty Rage is customised too, mind.

BeautifulLie wrote:

I was kinda wanting Disarm for the pvp aspect I mean if im a thuggish brawling type of minion and I get into a fight against a dev critter. Taking away their rapier of pointy instant kills kinda saves my arse no?

and yes Blindfight is a must for a darkness spammer. It also helps against those pesky imp invis'd targets.

If your taking Disarm for pvp forget it.

If the server crashes and you've disarmed a person who spent 1 million gp on their wonderforged rapier, you end up looking like ****nut, the persons friends will all hate you, and in my ming the griefing you could get would be justified if it were carried out in an IC fashion.

The only characters that should ever be disarming other PC's are unarmed ones because the weapon drops into the disarmers inventory.

Playing a lowbie bard, planning on going rdd and BG, later, and I'm wondering: are the epic fiendish servant and blackguard spells worth not really being a bard at all?

No. Never. Not in a million years.

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