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I'm planning to play a shifter, relatively soon, so I'm wondering a few things.

:arrow:

Are they useful, here? (Solo or group)
:arrow:

When can they get thousand faces.
:arrow:

Also, building tips would be pretty neat.

Last thing~, I keep seeing things saying to wait for new forms, are those implemented already, or should I actually wait?

If you want help with builds, see the official build thread.

Shifters are as good as you RP them ... if you are solely after build advice, once more I direct you to he build thread to ask. I can't remember when they get 1000 Faces though.

It was answered in another topic created with the same question. I believe 13rd lvl of Druid or some level of Shifter that I dont remember anymore, 8th maybe?

dont make a shifter, not worth it right now and noone is sure when it will be.

I would elaborate on the matter but the fact would remain the same that its a waste of time.

be prepared for the replies that say shifters suck because they cannot solo the hardest area of hells armpit and because they only get a million AC not a million point five. Shifters are cool

corypx wrote:

dont make a shifter, not worth it right now and noone is sure when it will be.

I would elaborate on the matter but the fact would remain the same that its a waste of time.

Only if you're in it for build power and not RP.

Shifters are great fun.

I'll have a stab at answering the first question.

Are they useful, solo or group?

Shifters are useful in both of these fields. They have such high AC or can change to suit the situation that they're able to do both equally effectively. Mostly, they are tanks and/or spellcasters.

Monk/Shifter combo's will be seriously nerfed in the near future so its best not to put your eggs in this basket.

To compensate, Druid/Shifter's will be getting a boost to encourage people not to take monk.

That's the mechanics. Now to the wider question.

----

Which groups would shifter's best fit into? Which factions would it readily fit and be of use?

For surface groups there is:

The Grove (Druid/Ranger faction)
The Hidden Glade (Druid/Ranger faction)

For Underdark groups:

Fanatics of the Overflowing Pit (Ghaunadaur) with special emphasis on Underdark shapes being preferred (Drider, Kobold, illithid, etc).

Oh, I never intended to go monk for third, probably a stealth class. I like the idea of a shifter as a nature-themed infiltrator.

I just didn't know how they'd been changed here. The general consensus is to wait?

Last edited by corypx on Mon, Mar 30 2009, 3:54 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yurell wrote:

corypx wrote:

dont make a shifter, not worth it right now and noone is sure when it will be.

I would elaborate on the matter but the fact would remain the same that its a waste of time.

Only if you're in it for build power and not RP.

Shifters are great fun.

OBJECTION!

do you play a shifter, and if so did you roll monk or dragon form hell maybe even both?

casters have about the same AC if not more then shifters who did not go monk, and the stats are just too low on most forms to make them worth using.

they had plans to fix up the forms AC and stats so people will pick more then dragon form and monk because they will remove Monk AC bonus from working in form, making it a more level field to balance on.

I love my shifter, personally.

-I suck at fighting and die with all my characters so I don't know.

-level 13 druid or level 7 shifter (preferably with Rp)

- build thread would be your best bet.

The forms are being worked on but are not done at the moment. Shifters are great fun for the Rp I'd say. Right now they do better in groups, but like I said I die All the time regardless of which character I'm playing <.<. It's sad.

If you feel you're going to have fun playing as one anyway, why wait?

Magnum Opera wrote:

If you feel you're going to have fun playing as one anyway, why wait?

It's about the fun.
Even sucky builds can do just fine if they work in groups.

corypx wrote:

Yurell wrote:

corypx wrote:

dont make a shifter, not worth it right now and noone is sure when it will be.

I would elaborate on the matter but the fact would remain the same that its a waste of time.

Only if you're in it for build power and not RP.

Shifters are great fun.

OBJECTION!

do you play a shifter, and if so did you roll monk or dragon form hell maybe even both?

casters have about the same AC if not more then shifters who did not go monk, and the stats are just too low on most forms to make them worth using.

they had plans to fix up the forms AC and stats so people will pick more then dragon form and monk because they will remove Monk AC bonus from working in form, making it a more level field to balance on.

All your doing is coming back saying that build is important ... I'm saying if you don't give a damn about build and are in it for the RP, they are great.

Note, this is not saying that there aren't good shifter builds (a certain cheese comes to mind).

Falling Spider wrote:

I'm planning to play a shifter, relatively soon, so I'm wondering a few things.

:arrow:

Are they useful, here? (Solo or group)
:arrow:

When can they get thousand faces.
:arrow:

Also, building tips would be pretty neat.

Last thing~, I keep seeing things saying to wait for new forms, are those implemented already, or should I actually wait?

1) If you're looking for raw power, shifter is not your best bet and most likely never will be except in very specific situations (like running around beholders as a risen lord)

2) 13 druid or 7shifter

3) ask in the other thread

corypx wrote:

Yurell wrote:

corypx wrote:

dont make a shifter, not worth it right now and noone is sure when it will be.

I would elaborate on the matter but the fact would remain the same that its a waste of time.

Only if you're in it for build power and not RP.

Shifters are great fun.

OBJECTION!

do you play a shifter, and if so did you roll monk or dragon form hell maybe even both?

Corpyx, it's getting old, power isn't everything.
Shifters are fun, don't let the upcoming changes hold you from making your own shifter character and delaying the fun, you can always do a rebuild if necessary.

And about your "objection": I do play a non monk shifter, and I'd go so far as to say dragonshape is not even the most powerfull form.
I have all the epic shapes and 19shifter levels, but I use my risen lord and 3 standard shapes more often then dragon.

Sure, maybe you cannot solo the abyss and other high level area's, but pure mellee (non caster, non umd) will not be able to do that so easy either.
You can solo the fire giants, you can solo the ice beast and maximus.
You can take on windreaper on your own (even though you cannot get there solo, but it's a good thing you can take him if he ends up whiping your other party members)
So there's really no complaining, except for the fact that the power of the class is based on about 5-6 shapes out of the ~30 you can have.

Yurell wrote:

All your doing is coming back saying that build is important ... I'm saying if you don't give a damn about build and are in it for the RP, they are great.

Note, this is not saying that there aren't good shifter builds (a certain cheese comes to mind).

because I leveled one and play one people should know what they are geting into, summons geting picked over you is kind of a slap in the face, and lets face it a fair chunk of this game ends up in combat so if you amount to a bucket full of fail you end up being a burden.

befor you say but thats not RP thats hunting and leveling, alot of RP is started or ends in conflict maybe not PVP but it has a high chance, also how do you think you are going to gain the fun new forms for you to RP in?

dont get me wrong shifters are fun in DM events when you get to use your otherwise useless forms, storm powered by the wrath of a god zaping people with lightning, blue wyrmling has you covered, house on fire white wrym blow some frost.

corypx wrote:

Yurell wrote:

All your doing is coming back saying that build is important ... I'm saying if you don't give a damn about build and are in it for the RP, they are great.

Note, this is not saying that there aren't good shifter builds (a certain cheese comes to mind).

because I leveled one and play one people should know what they are geting into, summons geting picked over you is kind of a slap in the face, and lets face it a fair chunk of this game ends up in combat so if you amount to a bucket full of fail you end up being a burden.

befor you say but thats not RP thats hunting and leveling, alot of RP is started or ends in conflict maybe not PVP but it has a high chance, also how do you think you are going to gain the fun new forms for you to RP in?

Doesn't mean shifters are utterly incompetent that they are not capable of leveling to gain thus said new forms.

If you find summons being picked over you, I doubt that it has anything to do with the fact that you're a shifter.

I love my druid/shifter. =D I'm not much of a character builder, but I love to RP them =P

Basically if you take 3-6 monk levels whilst playing a shifter character, be prepared to take some flak. Let me start:

It's a dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty combination. No sheer amount of scrubbing's going to clean that build, it's just incredibly dirty.

belgianbonzai wrote:

1) If you're looking for raw power, shifter is not your best bet and most likely never will be except in very specific situations (like running around beholders as a risen lord)

other then they will cast undeath to death or something on you and you cant heal and then will die. same goes with alot of other monster that will cast heal and such on you and its touch attack so with all 30 of your AC beter hope they like to roll ones. Construct shapes has all the perks of undead and can chug heal potions.

belgianbonzai wrote:

You can solo the fire giants, you can solo the ice beast and maximus.

IF you can use heal potions you can solo just about anything it might cost alot but it can be done. I personally can't do it with my build so I'll take your idea and rebuild if the forms ever get a buff.

belgianbonzai wrote:

And about your "objection": I do play a non monk shifter, and I'd go so far as to say dragonshape is not even the most powerfull form.
I have all the epic shapes and 19shifter levels, but I use my risen lord and 3 standard shapes more often then dragon.

look at the stats on dragon STR:48 DEX:36 CON:32 nearest competitors, strength (IronGolem 33), Dexterity (Epic Kobold Commando 25), and Constitution Azer Chieftain(21).

you playing a shifter then would agree that most forms stats are locked to low then or not have any at all, on epic and feat forms(other then dragon it has a very nice spread)

To the OP

Whenever a shifter thread comes up its better just to ignore Corypx.

He categorically ignores the fact that shifter 11's Gargoyle form is immune to all of Amias current physical damage and Mindflayer form can KD firegiants from range and that the blast can be targeted on a party member (such as a DwD) and not knock them down just everyone around them it also apparently has unlimited uses and combined with a wizards haste can be used 2 times a round.

I've done this on a run with Old-puss-toss.

Gargoyles may soak up incredible damage but they hit incredibly poor damage in return. Rather even I think. The mindflayer I'll admitt is an incredible form to shift into, it's mainly the epic forms (barring dragonshape) that are a dissapointment unfortunately.

But it comes down to nothing will happen provided 3-6 monk levels is an available option. Personally the mindflayer has shown me that shifters if customised can be extremely effective, I look forward to other tweaks that can be made.

VeggieCookies wrote:

I love my druid/shifter. =D I'm not much of a character builder, but I love to RP them =P

Frey would love to eat them. With some fava beans.

:twisted:

Regards,

Galenson wrote:

But it comes down to nothing will happen provided 3-6 monk levels is an available option. Personally the mindflayer has shown me that shifters if customised can be extremely effective, I look forward to other tweaks that can be made.

Personally I'd just make a book of transformation not useable by monks and then add the new shapes to that, exactly like you use a book of transmutation at this moment.
All shapes get an improved version, "activate book" = improved version will be cast. "activate again" = standard version.

Toggle is set to 0 when going from entry area to next. Would make monk shifters only able to use it when they just levelled to lvl 1 monk.
Basically they will not gain from it unless they rush their levels from monk 1 to monk 3 in a single reset.

You can then weaken the most cheesy standard shapes a little more if needed, and even improve some basic shapes (dire tiger getting +4 or +5 claws and such) without hampering the non-monk shifters as they would be running around in improved versions.

For example:
standard dragonshape = lower the 20 dodge AC
Transformed dragonshape = keep as is now

Construct shapes standard = minor boost (these seriously suck)
Construct shapes transformed = major boost

MoshingChris wrote:

To the OP

Whenever a shifter thread comes up its better just to ignore Corypx.

He categorically ignores the fact that shifter 11's Gargoyle form is immune to all of Amias current physical damage and Mindflayer form can KD firegiants from range and that the blast can be targeted on a party member (such as a DwD) and not knock them down just everyone around them it also apparently has unlimited uses and combined with a wizards haste can be used 2 times a round.

I've done this on a run with Old-puss-toss.

yes 25/+7,Piercing 25/- is usefull but it also has 20str and 20dex and around 30AC so about every attack will hit you and they will crit,sneak attack and have weapons that more more then normal damage, try fighting a brog harpy spaming you for 50 damage per ranged attack because its AC to dodge it.

and I agree mindflayer blast is nice and have nothing bad to say about it.

I just like the idea of all the forms having a use and not just afew. like Harpy,Basilisk,Drider,drow warrior,Medusa,Dire tiger and the ones that have epic forms are useless.

golem forms are junk they count as +0 weapons, Gargoyle unarmed attack counts as a +7 weapon to penetrate Damage Reduction.

its only the wisdom AC that makes monk lame, when they remove it I'm all for monk shifters, it would help the unarmed forms alot.

items for Weapon Focus (creature),Improved Critical (creature) because dont our attacks in alot of forms count as creature.

corypx wrote:

yes 25/+7,Piercing 25/- is usefull but it also has 20str and 20dex and around 30AC so about every attack will hit you and they will crit,sneak attack and have weapons that more more then normal damage, try fighting a brog harpy spaming you for 50 damage per ranged attack because its AC to dodge it.

As a variation on Tormaks "Learn to play" i'll say: "Learn to buff".

Epic gargoyle + frozen wastes is the easiest and safest to solo level an epic shifter I'd say.

belgianbonzai wrote:

corypx wrote:

yes 25/+7,Piercing 25/- is usefull but it also has 20str and 20dex and around 30AC so about every attack will hit you and they will crit,sneak attack and have weapons that more more then normal damage, try fighting a brog harpy spaming you for 50 damage per ranged attack because its AC to dodge it.

As a variation on Tormaks "Learn to play" i'll say: "Learn to buff".

Epic gargoyle + frozen wastes is the easiest and safest to solo level an epic shifter I'd say.

my point was Epic gargoyle is not some kind of form of god mode and that AC is better then reduction.

how come not vanilla NWN for everything then, dragon should be hands down better then epic gargoyle because its ment to have 40/+6 damage reduction.

I think the main problem with the shifter class is that it was so completely nerfed when it was translated from PnP into NWN. Even the requirements were changed so that you HAD to be a druid where originally any class that had the ability to polymorph self and cast 3rd level spells could take shifter levels.

Quote:

Requirements
To become a shifter, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Feats: Alertness, Endurance
Spells: Able to cast 3rd level spells
Special: Alternate form- Must either know polymorph self or have a natural alternate form, alter self, polymorph self, shapechange, or wild shape ability.

Shifter Abilities per level:
1st - Greater wild shape 1/day (Small or Medium-size, humanoid shape)
2nd - Greater wild shape (animal shape, monstrous humanoid shape)
3rd - Greater wild shape 3/day (Large or Tiny, beast shape, plant shape)
4th - Greater wild shape (giant shape, vermin shape)
5th - Greater wild shape 5/day (Diminutive, magical beast shape)
6th - Greater wild shape (aberration shape, ooze shape), supernatural ease
7th - Greater wild shape 7/day (Huge, dragon shape)
8th - Greater wild shape (undead shape, construct shape)
9th - Greater wild shape 9/day (Fine, elemental shape, outsider shape)
10th - Greater wild shape (Gargantuan), evershifting form

Evershifting Form: At 10th level, the shifter has reached the pinnacle of her shapechanging abilities. From this point on, she can use greater wild shape once per round, as a move-equivalent action, as many times per day as she wishes. Her type changes to shapechanger for determining what effects and items can affect her, and she gains darkvision (60 feet), which remains in effect regardless of her form.
In addition, the shifter no longer suffers ability penalties for aging and is not subject to magical aging, though any aging penalties she may have already suffered remain in place. Bonuses still accrue and the shifter still dies from old age when her time is up.

there are a lot of shifters coming up now...

I don't want to be part of an influx...

but they are great for RP

there are a lot of shifters coming up now...

I don't want to be part of an influx...

but they are great for RP

One of the oldest shifters on the server played a Rahkasha form 99% of the time and could cast endless Ice storms over and over and over again. He was unhittable just about (70+AC) and you knew that if he were in your party, your party would live through just about anything. Granted he had monk in the build, but...with the upcoming changes, I'm sure shifters won't be a pushover.

Rahkasha form has to be one of the best out there...

Shifters.

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