AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

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3 Blackgurd nets create undead and turn undead: utterly pointless since you nab both as a cleric.

the point of 3 BG is to get Aura of Despair which is helping you either Dev or Implode people.

Uberuce wrote:

Eeep! No. When you shift, you are no unarmed: you are using a weapon that the engine calls Creature. You can't take Devcrit(creature), so it won't work.

I thought some of them were really unarmed? Oh well. But Flurry still works, right?

Uberuce wrote:

The Balor shape yields a 43DC Devcrit(greatsword), but Druids can't use greatswords because of their oaths, so they'd not be able to learn the feat unless you're being a munchkin.

The Balor from Shapechange has a sword? That's Amia-specific just like that extreme strength, I suppose. Or what are we talking about?

Anyway, I'd love to see that evil elemental Druid, if there is a BG-compatible Druid deity.

It makes sense if you're a computer, the Unarmed/Creature thing. Flurry works fine, as does Improved Crit: unarmed, but the others don't. Quite why Improved Crit works while the Focus and Over/Dev crit feats don't only makes sense to Bioware coders.

Malar's the bad druid god, although you're not a Blackguard, you're a Veryveryveryveryverydarkgreenguard.

Ts_ wrote:

Anyway, I'd love to see that evil elemental Druid, if there is a BG-compatible Druid deity.

Malar, but don't use the blackguards summon undead abilities

Does level 20 qualify you for epic feats or is it 21? If I were to take 1 level of ranger at level 20 or 21 (whichever is epic) on my character the Favored Enemy could be traded for a different epic feat, correct?

Depends on the feat. You can take Lasting Inspiration at 20 bard. You need 21 for Bane of Enemies. Only 4 for Epic Wep Spec with fighter.

21. 20 is the last pre-epic level.

To clarify. The build was going to be pure rogue. I realized I could sacrifice 1 level without losing any sneak die. He already essentially has dual-wield (both feats) and I was wondering what one level would be most beneficial.

I thought ranger due to extra epic feat, +4 H/MS in wilderness, and ability for Animal Empathy. Two questions arise with this:

1. Assuming I take 20 points in animal empathy, will that be enough with two of the +12 AE rings (or should I consider also using the bonus feat on Epic Skill Focus: AE)? Having this ability would really help my character who is useless if alone.

2. (edit: answered)

Im looking to beef up ray somewhat, though im looking a little discussion on this since im still a little iffy about the whole thing.

The main thing here is, power or image, by that I mean pokey rapier and fighter levels. Or Bastar sword and bg lovely aura, contrary to popular belief ray was never built to kick everyones ass. Do I want to head down that road, or should I just add a few more perks and make him look more badass?

To sum it all up dex route or str route for a bard bg sd.

krytellan wrote:

1. Assuming I take 20 points in animal empathy, will that be enough with two of the +12 AE rings (or should I consider also using the bonus feat on Epic Skill Focus: AE)? Having this ability would really help my character who is useless if alone.

20 points will be enough. Remember to get a particular ring that has One with the Land x per day to boost your AE with 4.

Well then, as skill points are golden with his myriad of skill foci, is 20 too much with the specified gear or is that the safe bet?

Craig deathwalker wrote:

Im looking to beef up ray somewhat, though im looking a little discussion on this since im still a little iffy about the whole thing.

The main thing here is, power or image, by that I mean pokey rapier and fighter levels. Or Bastar sword and bg lovely aura, contrary to popular belief ray was never built to kick everyones ass. Do I want to head down that road, or should I just add a few more perks and make him look more badass?

To sum it all up dex route or str route for a bard bg sd.

Dex.

Are you kidding? STR is the obvious route. Bards don't need the overflow of AC dex gives. They desperately need the damage.

Tormak is right, but if DEX there already is a build out there Bard 20 / BG 4 / SD 6, as even not taking epic dodge, the BG lvl makes it great.

TormakSaber wrote:

Are you kidding? STR is the obvious route. Bards don't need the overflow of AC dex gives. They desperately need the damage.

Kind of wasting his 3rd class then

If you keep SD -> dex
If you can switch it to fighter or anything else except AA-> STR, if you go AA, go CHA/DEX and add divine might/shield

I am thinking of creating a status effect/battlefield control wizard and was wondering if Charm actually did anything useful for that end. Also, what spell foci should I take. Obviously Enchantment and Evocation has some nice controlling effects and will also help with direct damage at lower levels. But what else should I take?

belgianbonzai wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Are you kidding? STR is the obvious route. Bards don't need the overflow of AC dex gives. They desperately need the damage.

Kind of wasting his 3rd class then

If you keep SD -> dex
If you can switch it to fighter or anything else except AA-> STR, if you go AA, go CHA/DEX and add divine might/shield

You don't need 100+ hide to function as a SD. People generally either have 0 or they have 90-100+. You're either gonna get caught 100% of the time or hide 100% of the time, generally.

TormakSaber wrote:

Are you kidding? STR is the obvious route. Bards don't need the overflow of AC dex gives. They desperately need the damage.

Dunno what your talking about but i'm referring to having a Hide/MS score of more than 90.

Acrid wrote:

Tormak is right, but if DEX there already is a build out there Bard 20 / BG 4 / SD 6, as even not taking epic dodge, the BG lvl makes it great.

Thats my current build only one on server I think, unless someone made one recently lol?

The debate here is whether or not to make it stronger, via more ac hide ms, or through ab maintaining the same damage output.

belgianbonzai wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Are you kidding? STR is the obvious route. Bards don't need the overflow of AC dex gives. They desperately need the damage.

Kind of wasting his 3rd class then

If you keep SD -> dex
If you can switch it to fighter or anything else except AA-> STR, if you go AA, go CHA/DEX and add divine might/shield

As far as divine might is concerned I have that feat covered, so concidere it free, I was thinking replacing it with epic spot. However that means some real planning of my skill points and to be honest im not sure I have enough.

And chris, in my hide ms gear I get just under a 100 hide ms, thats with bard/curse song. Since I dont have epic hide ms, dedicated spotters will see me, though I find more often than not those that do sacrifice alot to do so.

MoshingChris wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Are you kidding? STR is the obvious route. Bards don't need the overflow of AC dex gives. They desperately need the damage.

Dunno what your talking about but i'm referring to having a Hide/MS score of more than 90.

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You don't need 100+ hide to function as a SD. People generally either have 0 or they have 90-100+. You're either gonna get caught 100% of the time or hide 100% of the time, generally.

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You don't need 100+ hide to function as a SD. People generally either have 0 or they have 90-100+. You're either gonna get caught 100% of the time or hide 100% of the time, generally.

This may be true regarding current characters (and probably is, if you're saying so), but I have reservations regarding this line of reasoning. It's not an equilibrium strategy: if people assume that they can get away with low values of Hide/MS because low levels of Spot/Listen are worthless, then suddenly low levels of Spot/Listen would become worth taking.

I still don't get how people are able to get triple digit skills. With my faerie monk, the best I could get with Hide/MS was in the high 60s/low 70s, and she was rarely spotted, so... *Shrugs*

Cobbs wrote:

I still don't get how people are able to get triple digit skills. With my faerie monk, the best I could get with Hide/MS was in the high 60s/low 70s, and she was rarely spotted, so... *Shrugs*

It's a combination of maxxed out skill ranks, a 13+ dex modifer, skill focuses, epic skill focuses, and feats like "stealthy". Plus any racial bonuses and hitting the +50 limit off items. Some people I've seen get 110ish.

Yeah. I have a 23 SD with about 107. It's from a very high dex, some class bonuses, of course epic feats, and high-end SD gear (with modifications) doesn't hurt either. The racial, class, and feat adjustments are the big ones. You can always get +50 from gear, what matters is the foundation you are working from.

My ShDD tops out at over 90 H/MS with readily available, off the shelf, gear and no Racial or Feat bonuses... and I still have empty Mythal slots available.

What you have to remember is that a lot of people keep a spare kit in a Bag of Holding and will swap out all of their gear before casting True Sight just so they can see you. It's sad to see a character without the relevant Class Skills spotting dedicated Hiders and then RPing that they have good eyes/ears. I don't mean it's sad that the Hider doesn't have enough in H/MS, it's sad that players resort to that kind of powergaming. Since so many people do it your only option is to get the highest H/MS possible.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

My ShDD tops out at over 90 H/MS with readily available, off the shelf, gear and no Racial or Feat bonuses... and I still have empty Mythal slots available.

What you have to remember is that a lot of people keep a spare kit in a Bag of Holding and will swap out all of their gear before casting True Sight just so they can see you. It's sad to see a character without the relevant Class Skills spotting dedicated Hiders and then RPing that they have good eyes/ears. I don't mean it's sad that the Hider doesn't have enough in H/MS, it's sad that players resort to that kind of powergaming. Since so many people do it your only option is to get the highest H/MS possible.

Nothing wrong with this. Also: If a 0 spot character in spot gear sees you, get more hide. *Clearly*.

When I siad "you don't need 100 hide" I didn't mean 30 is ok, heh.

Playing a level 9 hobgoblin cleric of Torm.

1. Is it worthwhile for a cleric to go CoT if you're low CHA (14)? Cha max would be 16 at lv 30 because I need 4 points to go into a wis score of 16.

2. What feats are nice and important to take? I have Power Attack, Divine Might and Scribe Scroll, but I'm at a loss whether to take Divine Shield or a spell focus feat.

Thanks!

In my Humbledore, the only non-griefy-prick reason to take SD is because your faction is getting toyed with by griefy-prick SD's and you don't want to play a high-Spot deathspeller. In that context, you want to maximise Spot and Hide/MS as much as you can, because SD duels are a balance of having the higher percentage of first-detect and then having the damage to make that worthwhile. Siveyn is a seriously brutal example; he's on the 112/102/100 Hide/MS/Spot and 13d6 Sneaks.

My Bard23/SD6/Ranger1 is on 109/99/103 Hide/MS/Spot outdoors(which given his forest-defendy-but-near-pacifist RP is the only place he'd be inclined to hit anyone), with Curse Song fiddling that to 120/110/114. Hits like a wuss, but he'll pretty much never be seen before he sees the other SD.

I never sparred Siveyn, but my money is on him because justice is so much more experienced with SD-wrangling than me, and even if he wasn't, that's just a monster of an SD-killer build. Of course, Siveyn can't buff the rest of the Grovies while he's at it. Him, Thiamel and Devabariel used to be a hell of a team: Siveyn was the weapon, Deva wasn't exactly a pussycat either, but had the saves to cope with high-Spot deathspellers and Thiamel was the buffstick that people couldn't kill because no-one could find him.

Sokar: 0-detect people cannot find dedicated Hiders. You can put the emphasis on either cannot or dedicated there. It's kinda like saying that it's very sad mages can buff up AB and hit dedicated AC tanks.

Uberuce wrote:

My Bard23/SD6/Ranger1 is on 109/99/103 Hide/MS/Spot outdoors(which given his forest-defendy-but-near-pacifist RP is the only place he'd be inclined to hit anyone), with Curse Song fiddling that to 120/110/114.

I dont know how you manage to stuff all the skill points with your inventory but that is truly awsome.

-------------------

vs SD, would GS then transform UberUlke, go back normal form and hit be an exploit?

Uberuce wrote:

My Bard23/SD6/Ranger1 is on 109/99/103 Hide/MS/Spot outdoors

Bard song is +12 at level 23, spells easily give +20 to hide, +10 to spot.

So you really need only +18 hide, +38 move, +28 spot. Well, he also needs about +15 to perform, I suppose, to reach that 65 needed for the level 23 song. But that can be done with equipment swapping if absolutely necessary. Looking at the usual suspects for hide/move gear, those numbers shouldn't be too hard to reach.

If you want +38/38/38 from gear, things become tougher, for sure. But I suppose SD items can give you +30 hide/ms with maybe 6 as opposed to 12 gear slots.

The one thing I really wonder about is how he hurts things, being somewhat DEX-based, without divine might and sneak attacks ...

Uberuce wrote:

Hits like a wuss

Right, question answered ;) But that's what friends are for. They will also love that +12 to their skills.

Regards
Ts

Uberuce wrote:

The Balor shape yields a 43DC Devcrit(greatsword), but Druids can't use greatswords because of their oaths, so they'd not be able to learn the feat unless you're being a munchkin.

bahahah the memories of the malrog.. we still got to get around to seeing what she can knockdown one day.

but with shdowdancers the three examples listed are prime examples, when siveyn appeared behind you, in 6 seconds you were taking something like 300 damage

Deva on the otherhand was hitting like a girl, but he was damn hardy.. like really hardy I remember hunting with him alot on inrae'tana, he never ever took a dive, even in pvp

and ruces shadow prancer.. well he told you all about him

krytellan wrote:

Well then, as skill points are golden with his myriad of skill foci, is 20 too much with the specified gear or is that the safe bet?

Don't waste an ESF for it. 20 is enough. You can go less, but 20 is safer.

I want to make a drow whipmaster. I want to go bard/bg/wm, but idk how to do that well. I will substitue fighter for wm if it is too iffy.

Fighter is a better bet. Last time I saw it done, it was an STR/CHA fighter 7/WM7/BG 16. I think that was it, anyways.

I'm thinking more on how to effectively use blackguard on a bard. the drow whip thing is just a brainstorm thing, really. I might go for RDD or something

hm, Bard (wich is 20 lvl minimum and 2 feats) + BG (2 feats) + Weapon Master (what? like 5 feats requirement?) + Drow (-1 feat) = way to tight on feats.

So do either Bard BG something other than WM, fighter for exemple as Tormak said.
Or Bard 20 / Fighter 1 / WM 7.

But Bard 20 / RDD 8 on drow and you will miss out the wings.

Just forget RDD.

I'm currently building a barb/ftr/wm and was kinda stumped as to what I should make the fighter/barbarian ratio. I am truly torn as I know that I will reap the benefits of the fighter levels from the feats, however I also know that there's some different versions of barbarian rage that have level requirements. The character is already 17th level, the breakdown being 5 fighter, 5 barbarian, 7 weapon master.

I am obviously going for devastating crit and already have all the prerequisites so far except for great cleave and overwhelming crit. Any recommendations for what direction I should take would be most appreciated

Last barb/fighter/WM I saw used Greataxe and went 21 barb/4 fighter/5 WM. You'd have to make an arguement as to whether the x4 crits was worth taking the feats for, but it sure did look pretty when you crit.

you3507 wrote:

I am thinking of creating a status effect/battlefield control wizard and was wondering if Charm actually did anything useful for that end. Also, what spell foci should I take. Obviously Enchantment, and Evocation has some nice controlling effects and will also help with direct damage at lower levels. But what else should I take?

Just don't want this to be lost.

blackvswhite wrote:

I'm thinking more on how to effectively use blackguard on a bard. the drow whip thing is just a brainstorm thing, really. I might go for RDD or something

Optimal build is Str based in my opinion

23 Bard 2 Fighter 3 BG

Pre-epic feats 7 + 2 Fighter Bonus Feats: Curse Song, Max Spell, Extend Spell, Exotic Weapon Prof, Weapon Prof whip, Imp Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Divine Might

Epic Feats 3 + 1 Bard Epic Bonus: Epic Fort, Epic Weapon Focus, Lasting Inspiration and 1 free.

BG 3 needs to fall on a standard pre-epic feat level for divine might(15 or 18)

You want to end up with 18cha and 22 str which means on a Drow i'd start with 15str 10dex 10con 10wis 14int 16cha and invest level up ability points all in str.

you3507 wrote:

I am thinking of creating a status effect/battlefield control wizard and was wondering if Charm actually did anything useful for that end. Also, what spell foci should I take. Obviously Enchantment, and Evocation has some nice controlling effects and will also help with direct damage at lower levels. But what else should I take?

Just don't want this to be lost.

If you're really trying to squeeze a triple focus, go Enchant/Evoke/Necromancy.

MoshingChris wrote:

blackvswhite wrote:

I'm thinking more on how to effectively use blackguard on a bard. the drow whip thing is just a brainstorm thing, really. I might go for RDD or something

Optimal build is Str based in my opinion

23 Bard 2 Fighter 3 BG

Pre-epic feats 7 + 2 Fighter Bonus Feats: Curse Song, Max Spell, Extend Spell, Exotic Weapon Prof, Weapon Prof whip, Imp Critical, Power Attack, Cleave, Divine Might

Epic Feats 3 + 1 Bard Epic Bonus: Epic Fort, Epic Weapon Focus, Lasting Inspiration and 1 free.

BG 3 needs to fall on a standard pre-epic feat level for divine might(15 or 18)

You want to end up with 18cha and 22 str which means on a Drow i'd start with 15str 10dex 10con 10wis 14int 16cha and invest level up ability points all in str.

i never understood the poeple who take maximize spell for Bards, you cant maximize Ice Storm can you? but certainly unsless if it's simply to buff ability. Just chuck more potion to get a full roll.

However, it looks nice, take Armor Skin for that 1 free feat.

EDITED..

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but certainly unsless if it's simply to buff ability. Just chuck more potion to get a full roll.

Why? You get it for 30 hours or whatever off your buff instead of 10 hours off a potion, and you can buff allies with it, more importantly. Not a time waster, saves on expenses, it's like there's no reason NOT to take it. It lets you have far more freedom with your gearset knowing you're only ever 1 cast away from +5 STR and +5 CHA.

Ok Buildmonkeys, I need advice... I want to make a Kellie Battle Cleric... Is it possible to take Mummy Dust and still get a solid combination of melee feats... and what are they? I have been sitting here, building and rebuilding the little bugger and I cannot make it work.

So, taking Travel and Protection domains, LN alignment, don't want CofT levels at all and was thinking of a simple Cleric/Fighter combination. Important to remember that the character doesn't have to be a death-bot, and the Mummy Dust will get a re-skin, ideally as a Shield Guardian.

Only important skills are Discipline, Heal, Concentration, Lore and Spellcraft and the character will use a Warhammer. He will be RPed as a battlefield Priest who has come to Amia as part of a penance which has seen him travel the lands attending to, well travelers. Penance imposed for denying Kelemvor's rites to peasant conscripts who fell on the battlefield while fleeing.

HELP ME, I SUCK AT THIS

Your reskinned mummy dust will still be using negative energy so it really probably isn't the best choice. If you take Death Domain, you'll have something just as sexy and not dogma endangering.

Battle Cleric = Cleric with Weapon Focus.... and carrying said weapon.

Better Battle Cleric = Cleric 26 Fighter 4 with EWS.

Pretty hard to screw up really.

The Incognitos wrote:

Ok Buildmonkeys, I need advice... I want to make a Kellie Battle Cleric... Is it possible to take Mummy Dust and still get a solid combination of melee feats... and what are they? I have been sitting here, building and rebuilding the little bugger and I cannot make it work.

So, taking Travel and Protection domains, LN alignment, don't want CofT levels at all and was thinking of a simple Cleric/Fighter combination. Important to remember that the character doesn't have to be a death-bot, and the Mummy Dust will get a re-skin, ideally as a Shield Guardian.

Only important skills are Discipline, Heal, Concentration, Lore and Spellcraft and the character will use a Warhammer. He will be RPed as a battlefield Priest who has come to Amia as part of a penance which has seen him travel the lands attending to, well travelers. Penance imposed for denying Kelemvor's rites to peasant conscripts who fell on the battlefield while fleeing.

HELP ME, I SUCK AT THIS

You can have Mummy Dust, but if you ever cast it when it's not reskinned, your arse will be handed to you on a plate.

26 cleric/ 4 fighter is pretty hard to screw up, yus. I suggest dropping Lore or Heal, you won't simply afford both of them.

There are alternatives. 25 cleric/ 4 fighter/ 1 rogue, bard or monk, 27 cleric/ 2 fighter/ 1 rogue, bard or monk etc.

Just a quick question. Is 30-40 Discipline adequate everyday protection for a pure Epic Dodging rogue?

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