My dragon never lasts a single spawn in the abyss, and thats in a group! >.> How do people solo with that damn thing. <.<

Who are these soloing mages? >.<

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"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.

Works well as a cleric .. does Blackstaff work on dragons? Because that would truly be broken (though I doubt it would happen).

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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Control undead, dominate person should get the same duration as dominate monster in my opinion, 3 + casterlevel / 2 that is.

And no, blackstaff shouldn't work on anything that isnt a melee weapon, if they work on creature claws let me know and I'll cut that.

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Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.

Never tried soloing the abyss with its new spawns but previously, buffing the EDK and the balor warrior you dominate allows a mage to solo the abyss. you just need to maintain them both with buffs + heal pots. Heal pots is the glue that keeps it all together. About 8k xp a trip to the temple last i recall. ~20-30mins of work i think.

I suppose I'm looking for responses to the premise driving the nerf: The excellence of the class at PvP/bosses/partybuffing is such that by rights their ability to solo PvM should be on a par with an archer or twohanderer.

It's not going to be as nerfy as that, but I think we'd reconsider if there was a flood of responses asking to be defanged in PvP/bossrunning.

Alright, honestly, you builder people..do you even play other servers ever?

Here is a few things of note, however it doesn't really pertain to my argument per say but I think you should hear them anyway.

1. On Bastions of War, which is a purely OOC pvp server, my exact build is better than it is here on amia. Let me repeat that, my wizard on a balanced pvp server is better than on amia, which is alleged to favour them. The reason for this is simply that people cannot run off and chug a potion, so using IGMS without timestop or disabling an enemy is actually viable. Here it is not, so I thought the idea was to give mages something which was capable of a continuous and at least somewhat effective damage output. Now I admit, my character probably isnt as good as a mage could be, so maybe I am mistaken but I really don't think so.

2. People will see things different when they ask me to come help with a task I have done before, and yet inexplicably cannot do anymore. That is when. However, I admit I do assume "significantly and noticeably weaker" but then again...why do it if it is not noticeable? Fair assumption, I think, when someone says "sizeable chunk of strength". My statement about my character was relevent because it shows that people do roleplay their class and abilites, as well as learning them. To me, my characters have those stats due to their life, so I wouldnt want a rebuild either. Its hard to explain after a certain history which resulted in my character being 8/10 why he suddenly dropped. Like I said, I don't necessarily think the idea is a bad one but I oppose changes like this in general.



Who plays amia to display effort? I come here for storyline, exploration stuff like that which makes sense because it is a rolepaly server. My character choose a certain path due to the power relations of the server, when you artificially change those power relations without an in character reason it messes stuff up.

EDIT: Uberuce, I dont oppose the changes on a theoretical level. If amia wasnt open to be played on, and this was just part of pre-testing or whatever I wouldnt care either way. However, if this nerf makes my EDK rubbish, or not 'epic', its going to really suck. EDK is my chars epic spell, should be epic.

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Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

You are talking to a long time Vet of Bastions of war, there is reasoning to why you believe wizards are stronger on bastions than to Amia. Bastions has spells balanced for pvp, it requires more focuses to be good at individual things.

However bastions only recently made necromancy school worth taking, and EDK worth using. There is also the fact that it is a level 40 server, meaning offence spells are going to cause more damage and you can simple craft items that are stronger than the epic items available on amia.

That being said you can't truely compair the builds effectiveness because of the different scripting.

However I can say this, Bonds of Blood is a server you could claim to show some comparison too.But since they removed dev crit, epic dodge and Epic spells you can't really. The fact is different servers are exactly that different servers, and amia's mages are the most effective thing on the server. Where as on the previous two servers stated you could at least play other builds that are equally as strong.

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Ray's song! Thanks to Amarice, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujzp9ffPwPM

I understand your argument, but the conclusion of it is one I can't support as Balance Bovine; if Thing X is broken and stays broken long enough for people to RP around it, I think the need for a fix overrules the preference against retconning, and all we Devs can do is hold up our hands and apologise for taking so long.

Oh, and I forgot the other point of the thread: I'm not finished with the Druid or lowbie summons so I'm open to suggestions.

As for lowbie summons, I think they are pretty alright as is - some are weaker than others, but all in all they're pretty good IMO.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

This change is good. Suck it up. Mages are easily the most powerful builds in the game even without summons. Even my nerfed mage - a fighter / mage combo - which on a powerbuild scale must come in at truly sucks - can solo the lower epic areas (without an epic summons or epic spells), by using his skills and his spells intelligently. I've yet to meet a pure meleer solo in some of those areas - I've met plenty of mages and clerics doing it though.

The truth is, mage's are awesome even without summonses and if you can't play them on Amia, rethink your build, the spells you are using and the tactics you are using in pvm..that's where the problem is. Every spawn/ monster type on the server has its weakness and the mage is the most versatile in being able to change tactics to target those weaknesses. The problem is definitely not with a slight change to epic summons, which IMHO could and should be even greater, and is definitely long overdue, the problem is the way you're playing.

EDit:
Oh yeah, those that say an offensive casting mage is impossible to play on this server - you really need build lessons. I've partied with many awesome mages in epic areas who control the battles with cluster bombs of wails and IGM - the clue to this achievement lies in the first part of the sentence ....partied. PARTIED

CAn't solo anymore? Life sucks!

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Low status stumpies read stumpymoose.com

What I remember about my arcane, neutral lowbie summons:

Level 1:
Petal Fey: Awesome vs goblins! The sleep thingy was very powerful combined with a possessable familiar. Beyond goblins I quickly replaced it.
Persistent Blade: Totally awesome, because it works with Flame Weapon and is a construct.
Level 2: Fire lizard. Fun for two rounds, then okayish as a fighter, but nothing spectacular and at that level you can't buff properly with spells. (I didn't try potions, though. They would make this thing good, I suppose.)
Level 3: Wood Wight? Persistent Blade is so much better.
Level 4: Magmin ... Hmm, didn't learn that spell in time.
Level 5: Stone Grunt. First real melee tank, I think, unless it's throwing rocks at things with evasion ... Comes with KD, if I remember correctly.
Level 6: Jann Outrider. Nice. It's a level 6 spell that gives you free fireballs/cone of colds and an okay melee performance. By now, you can also afford the spell slots to buff it. It makes you feel like an Evoker, even though you're not casting it yourself ...
Level 7: Clockwork Horror. Construct traits make it a useful tank, and its damage output is okay, but nothing spectacular. In PvMob you have to wait for it to get rid of its spells before it becomes useful. (Speculation: In PvBoss, the two finger of deaths for the price of one level 7 slot might be nice, but it's hoping for 1's even more so than if you cast things yourself.)

I can't comment about the lesser and normal planar binding as I don't know them. But the Greater Planar Binding (Death Slaad for me) outclassed all my previous summons by so much, I wonder if the normal bindings are similiarly strong. I understand that it can be nerfed and still be quite good.

Overall, the summon I and V-VII were useful to me given the resources I had at that time, but none seemed particularly overpowered and certainly not better than party members. In between the spell slots defnitely had better uses.

Hope that helps.
Ts

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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"

i swear to god i want to kick a dog in the nuts every time i hear someone say something like "Mages suck it up". If you dont have something better to do the LOL at another clases nerfs, however big or small they may be, then dont post.

Again, i dont think the topic has any purpose, anything said here will be disreguarded by the team when changes are made, the choice is already done or in the works in the circle of Devs. But for the sake of tooting my own horn, i guess ill add a few more cents.

Sure, Wizards, and i say Wizards becouse Wizards and Sorcerers are very different. ill explain that mildy so people dont missunderstand. A Wizard has a set list of spells to cast per rest time. He can only have so many DR, Concelments, Acid Sheeths, summens, buffs and damage spells per day. Sure there are alot of ways to play a wizard.. you could prepare nothing but DR and Acid Sheeth for the day and let things kick you in the teath and die, you can prepare all fireballs and such and blow things up, or you can prepare all buffs and make a party go faster. You can also try to mix that and do a little bit of all three, but not have enough to do any of them for long. Sorcs dont have to pick what thier going to do tell their doing it.

Anyway, as i was saying, Wizards can be powerful even without their summens. I belive Mago said we are to comferitable with our custom amia summens? Okay, set the summens back to the defult, but set the spells back to the defult too. Then one can use things like.. Fire Shield and Acid sheeth, or IGMS without limits to missles per person or a fee to cast, or unsuck the bigby spells. But really, taking the stacking off of damage shields and limiting IGMS isnt a big deal.

When i think of my two PCs, my Bard with Dev crit, and my Wizard.. in PvM the Bard is FAR far better in almost every way, then the wizard. I can hit for i dont know.. 30-40 damage a hit.. 3-4 times a round.. 12+ crits for 70-100 damage? At the very least a 5% chance to one shot anything critable unlimited times per day? What can a Wizard do, mind were talking PvM here. Lets see, i can Bigby things.. okay, thats one thing per spell that i might be able to disable. AoE disable.. Fear? Confusion? Okay, thats a good option too, if your lucky thats one spawn disabled per casting. Wail, lovly spell, really, but the fort saves on most things makes it fairly unreliable even at a DC 40. Point being.. the summens add long term use to the Wizard, it lets him use spells in moderation and to pace himself to last longer. Cast one Wail, maybe kill a few spawns, the summen is able to clean up the rest. Use Disables, and you have the same effect. My Bard? He can go all day. He will likly dev crit half, if not more, of every spawn going down the Spires. He will hit on crits for about the same damage as a Wizard can with one spell, but he can do it 3-4 times a round.. thats, at the very most, 400 damage a round.. I dont know any Wizard ablities that let them do that, even if its only a 12+ chance to crit. 12+ is something any melee class can have with proper weapons, dont even need WM.. add WM and its every better damage.

Sure, bards can sell buff you say, their like melee wizards you say, okay, thats fine, but a Fighter base type, or a BBN base type, or Rogue, or any other melee type that isnt built stupidly, can do just as much damage with a few easily had potions.

Another thought that comes to mind.. though perhaps a little off topic, when you build a melee class, str, up to 40.. whats the key epic feat really? I mean, i never played on a server that went to 40, but id have to say its Dev crit right? Good thing you can get that by 30 for Amia. For Dex builds its what? Epic Dodge? You can get that before 30 too, luckly. No idea for Wis builds.. druids peak is dragon.. dont think clerics have anything besides more stats for divine might and str, or great smitting.. all of which you can get before 30. What do Arcane casters have? Well, id have to say, though ive never built to 40, one of the big epic feats for wiz/sorc would be Epic Warding. Oh shoot, cant have that before 30 can you? I mean.. for every other build type, you can access all the epic feats, before 30.. besides that one.. the one feat you cant get, is Epic Warding.

Ya, i know, bla bla bla, Wizards are OP, suck it up, grow some balls, make a right build, L2PLY.

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House Auvrea'Kan Crafts and Services is now open and prepared to discuss orders.

What are you actually trying to say?

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Say 'no' to JSBF!

What ticks me off a little about the whole affair is the free availability of all kinds of buff potions and powerful scrolls. You deflate the summons (a thing I'm perfectly alright with. The summons used to be worse, then got a boost a few years ago and everyone started using them), but on the other hand you don't take any incentive away from all the non-buffer classes to drink a dozen potions. Or to take UMD, a grossly overpowered skill with the magical items so freely available. Why do you think everyone has Rogue levels? So they get 3-6 more AC and access to a few hundred (!) ways to self-buff or cast, even though they don't have a nick of magic in them. This is what ticks me off, the nerfing of different kinds of useful AI companions from the mage, and at the same time the not taking away of the almost-every-spell-knowing mage in everyone's pocket.

He says bards need a nerf, too.

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Playing atm Eowariel (Elven archer) / Gwendolyn (Monk)
Inactive: Hector (Triadic knight)

All that I would love to see.. si that the bosses maybe.. fall to ones on fort saves from death spells. so that way.. us casters which cast.. can get our groove on and actually have it be effective.

bigby immunity is good, but I like to see wails actually effect bosses that it should effect, even on 1's..

I play a mage and I hereby support this change.. as was stated earlier though it would be nice to get a list of just what summons were changed.. just so we can compare them to what wasn't, and perhaps those who actually want to give constructive input can.

And for that he shall die.

If anything, bards need more power.

What?

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Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko

Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale

Huh, Talon, I don't think anyone answered you, so I will.

If we were totally removing EDK, we would probably allow the rebuild. The Dev Crit example is PCs having used a slot for a feat that suddenly no longer exists in any way! With EDK, it still exists! It can still be used. If we removed EDK so that you could no longer summon one and it was just wasting a spot, then we'd free rebuild.



I think we're just fine the way we are. We're a good class.

I think bards are good as they are.

And as for talon ... removing / effectively removing are different to nerfig slightly. Weakening EDK by a little bit doesn't hurt that much, it is still a very good summon (well, it was against Windy tonight). As Yoss pointed out, it would be different if it were to be removed, or made into a toothless lion, but the change was most certainly not that severe.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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You've commited the Spires Fallacy, which in a thread intended to give you a chance to submit good arguments against this tweak is frankly just disappointing; I don't know how many more times I need to repeat the analogy: Land Rovers go round a racetrack slower than Ferraris. That tells us nothing about how good they are offroad.

You're taking a Bard/BG/RDD, a prime contender for the title of Best PvMob Build Possible, doing what he does best (chopping up low-Fort goobers) and comparing it with a pure Wizard, the worst category of mage? Very unfair comparison; let's talk about a Cleric-or-Sorc/BG/Rogue with a Coven Leader and Mummydust in tow, in the Abyss/Manor. Or, if you insist on staying in the Spire, a level 21 tank and a Cleric or mage with said Coven'n'Dust in tow.

I've already said that I'd like to see mages pay for their PvP/bossrunning/partybuddy excellence by really sucking at solo PvMob; about as much as twohanderers and archers. As far as I can make out, you defined 'really sucking' as 'not as good as the absolute best.' Or you simply think that mages should have no defects at all.

From the first post, and maybe a good reality check for everyone:


This will affect arcane summons VIII+, planar bindings, gate and EDK, but not Mummy Dust, I think. It's not implemented yet!

The way I read it, summons will be more like meatshields (but still not total meatshields) and less like the main damage dealer. This slows down mages a bit.

Many big dominatees will be just as easiliy dominated, will be just as strong unbuffed, but can be buffed less than before.

Speculation:
I suppose that the "unbuffable" refers to weapon buffs and maybe ability buffs. Which would seem very fair: Dominate a monster and that monster fights for you as long as you keep it alive (and dominated). Keeping it alive is doable, but maybe costly. But if it's strength is fixed (already at +12) and the weapon cannot be enchanted, it's less of a monster turned friendly super-monster. This again slows down mages, but doesn't make soloing impossible, unless the mobs regenerate faster than your NPCs hurt them.

Uberuce called it the "least radical solution". It's a very elegant solution as well.

Regards
Ts

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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"

My first character on Amia was a wizard, and I like this change just fine. HA!

I rarely play casters, so i dont really know how this changes will effect them, but i do know that Amia has the best summons on any server i have ever played. I did actually start a mage a few days ago, an elven enchanter, who at level 3 went through the whole kobold lair alone, with his familiar, withouta scratch. Ofcourse, this was more because of the Misty potions than anything else, but if i ahd spellslotted the summoning spells instead of self buffs, i doubt i would need the Misty potions either. Point being, summons are allready, and still with this changes, immensly much better than the default bioware ones.

But then again, I dont think this is really about the summons, its more about the players desire to be invincible. I mean, all players want that, but usually its not possible due to server settings, monsters, class restrictions etc that other servers impose. On Amia however, it seems to be the norm that any character, allmost regardless of class, should be able to handle allmost everything on their own, ie: classes does no longer mean speacilization, which is what different classes are intended to be. Ofcourse, there ia still the divide between casters and none-casters, but quite frankly, everyone are competent all-round fighters, because those are the best and easiest to solo with.

Mages are the best single-target killers in the game. Clerics are the best buffers. Fighters are the best all-day damage dealers. Rangers are the best trackers and damage dealers against their favoured enemies. Rogues are the beast flankers. Monks the best mage-killers etc, meaning that all have their strenghts, and most importantly, which many wish to forget, weaknesses. No class is supposed to take on everything on their own, and that is, in my oppinion, Amias problem, as most characters here indeed are capable of handling pretty much anything thrown at them.

Perhaps not so much to do with the topic, but as long as everyone expects their classes to handle everything, there will allways be theese issues. I personally would like to see bonuses given to pure class characters, better summons for pure mages and druids, better spells and companions for pure rangers, more tricks for pure rogues, better blessings from pure clerics etc, as this, i believe, would make classes more meaningfull, and players aware of what their class is designed for and what its not.

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

EDK shouldn't be nerfed. I spent 2 General feats and 2 Epic feats for it and I feel strangling it during my hunts, these days I use a Juggernaut instead. It works in PvP, but usually people are cunning enough to get it stuck. The fear aura is crap in PvP because only the very few and very silly people forget their mindblanks.

Control Undead should be nerfed. A wizard buffed Coven Leader can solo Abyss I think, my dragon could never do that.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

That was probably the misty potion more than anything else. Misty = broken

He can't. At least not from my experience.

I sort of tried it, went there with a coven leader, another mage with edk, and a fighter. The Coven leader was the first to go down, edk the last because you can heal him with healpots.

You also prolly didn't see the hags down there, they can heal themself.. and damage the coven leader for roughly 120 damage.

So, that is already not possible anymore.

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"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong."
"I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder."

Wait till I can get the AI to do the right tricks against undead and summons...

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Say 'no' to JSBF!

Well, applogies for offences, it just sucks when the cats keep shitting in my litter box ya know? When there are other classes that can do more damage per round, for more rounds then a wizard... i dont know, kinda feels off.

I dont know the extent of the changes comming, so ill try to with hold to much judgment..

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House Auvrea'Kan Crafts and Services is now open and prepared to discuss orders.

Alternatively, why not make the summons tougher or leave them as it is but make the duration 10% of what it is now or even less?

At Xenos,

Do see my previous post on what a wizard can do with dominate, edk and familiar. More to a point a wizard as one thing a sorce does not, the ability to adapt to situations and a whole spell book at his disposal. More feats and skill points.

As for your level 40 comment, go to bastions of war, you will quickly see that even with 40 levels you can have builds strapped for feats. And that so many can be wtf pwned so easily unless built to perfection. For example, Rogue BG EDK, on bastions has 3 different variations all different skill levels ac ab and saves. (There is no allignment restrictions so thats a small bonus). You have Cleric monk rogues, in two variations either healers or spammers. Sorces come in all shapes and sizes depending on there focuses.

At xordae,

I completely agree and have said so for a long time, amia's magic system is broken in regards to scrolls and potions available. The small UMD requirement to use all scrolls is rediculous and is what makes amia's powerbuilds so strong. Imp,Invis shapechange, premo, stoneskin,true seeing. All available in shops and useable from around level 8 is it? Been a while since I self rebuilt using scrolls.

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Ray's song! Thanks to Amarice, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujzp9ffPwPM

Was alot of fun releveling my Bard with summen 9 scrolls, lol.

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House Auvrea'Kan Crafts and Services is now open and prepared to discuss orders.

AI does fine on undead I drop to like no HP as is, but that could just be me. good thing you can alt-tab and watch youtube as you regen all the way back too full.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

You want to change Summon IX to Gate?


Yep, these things are quite powerful, but mages can use potions as well or multiclass into rogue for those few things they cannot read, so it's "broken" in a fair way if at all.

Potions also work with familiars and summons (?), which makes potions more useful to "solo groups". Mages hanging back can easily drink potions, much more so than meleers. A potion of invisibility is a somewhat bad escape tactic in melee, I think. Using it with a mage, that casts 1 disabler / spawn from the distance and then simply drinks a potion to become virtually invincible while the NPCs chop things to pieces is definitely possible. Mages don't lose their action for that round (they wouldn't do anything anyway) and they don't trigger AoO (they're not in range).

Yes, potions/scrolls make buffers less of a necessity. Worse, some fighters are too used to their potions and too impatient to tell a wizard what they want. I cry when I see that. Here's a solution though: Toss around some fireballs, even if they do no damage. It might remind the fighters that there's still someone else in the party. (For further reading, see the hilarious "Attention Tanks" thread.)

And I suppose there are plenty ways to abuse access to level IX scrolls. But again, any wizard can have a stack of level IX scrolls in his pockets, or that level IX summon to level more quickly. And wizards can scribe them and profit from other people using them. It's really not a bad deal for wizards.

Ts

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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"

Dominate Monster on a Balor is just as cheese riden as Control Undead, and EDK in PvP only works unless they have UMD and a Mord Scroll, or are a Mage themselves, or have Devcrit, or get it stuck.

In other words, Summons are [bleep] in PvP.

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Drannok Stranvil - Mystran Loremaster
Rugnar Wildbrew - Dwarvern Scout
El'thanion Nuleaf - Wood Elf Shifter (Inactive)
Thayzin Goldenmaul - Gold Dwarf Paladin of Moradin (Inactive)

Looks like the nerf is also going to hurt clerics just as much. The only difference is, clerics have AC and buffs to keep alive (and failing that good ole' GS).

When you nerf the summons to stop solo'ing of mages, I guess you're also taking into account clerics? Because, lets face a few little truths here, we're able to be like a fighter (without dev. crit) for a short time with our buffs (until they wear off) but equally rely upon our summons to damage soak for us. We get a few big disabler spells and a few necro type ones but after that, cleric + summon might make up the same damage output of a fighter of equal level (death domain being the exception). If "Word" spell was fixed to being powerful again (even in PnP its powerful), then we'd probably do a lot better.

But generally, clerics are usually 2nd rate fighters that due to a few spells and a summons, make up for their shortfall by that. Given that Control Undead is getting nerfed, maybe bring up the disabler spells to their former glory (well, Word of Faith in particular).

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

I realy dont see why there is the current fad for every third topic to be about needing to nerf something.

We all have a wonderful world in which we play in. It might not be perfect but its the best I have found out there.

I am more than content with the way things are. So for goodness sake just remember how lucky that we -all- are to have a team that already works hard on our collective behalfs.

In short ... stop complaining and keep on rp'ing dont nit pick over every little thing that might keep you awake at night.

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Siggy by Maryn

Considering the defenses of these critters are not being changed, Clerics will hardly notice this, if at all.

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Drannok Stranvil - Mystran Loremaster
Rugnar Wildbrew - Dwarvern Scout
El'thanion Nuleaf - Wood Elf Shifter (Inactive)
Thayzin Goldenmaul - Gold Dwarf Paladin of Moradin (Inactive)

Still reckon Word of Faith needs fixing to being powerful again. I don't know why but it never seems to work here compared to the big oomph you get from it on other servers...

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

*facepalms*

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Siggy by Maryn

Actually i was referring to all the summons. Why not? Its a different take on the whole summoning thing. Duration greatly slashed but instead the summons remain somewhat useful. Summons last too long IMO anyway. See this way it also encourages RP. The Wizzie now needs the fighter and cant solo which seems to be what the DMs are aiming for.

If you limited the amount of potions and scrolls available, ie cut them from stores completely and made them only loot drops that drop similar to mythals, suddenly the fighter needs the mage for bulls strength or that cleric for heal or lesser restoration.

Everyone can help each other. It also helps to break those sorc/BG/rog builds somewhat as well.

Hooray UMD.

For purely selfish reasons (that being that UMD and the availability of Amia's plethora of potions/scrolls make my bard actually able to survive), I haven't got much to say on the UMD item count for Amia.

But I will say I wouldn't weep if that were changed. Anything that makes my game more challenging is fun for me!

For some reason, a couple posters have drawn the conclusion that Uce's announced nerf of lowering the AB of some of the high end summons is equal to having summons completely removed, or completely nerfed.

That's not the case.

It's a matter of reducing the offensive capabilities of certain, overpowered summons to the extent where they no longer out-class a meleer of equal level to the caster.


What's rather scary, is... that while Darthion had an EDK, I managed to buff it up to 70-ish AC, 50+ AB with 5 attacks per round and about 750-800 HP.

Epic Lulz.

You do realize that's better than 99% of the current PC meleers on Amia? The only thing the EDK was missing, was dev crit. If you were to add dev crit to it, then no one would have to play a meleer ever again, since you'll get your very own summoned bodyguard at the cost of a measily 4 feats.

And to those who still complain that wizards lack offensive abilities need to study what the class actually has to offer.

Bigby's in PvM? Seriously? Try using the evocation spells.

If you don't know which they are, I'll give you some help;

(The damage is equal to having 30 caster levels.)

Ice Storm (has no save): 15d6
- You can fill four levels of spell slots with it. Ordinary, Silenced, Empowered, Maximized. Total average of avaible castings per rest: 30-35

Horrid Wilting (has no save): 25d8

- Can be silenced. Total average of avaible castings per rest: 10-15


Just using those two as example, you'll have between 40 to 50 very good offensive spells per rest.

Let's calculate the damage on those spells, just for the fun of it, using the low average.

30 x 15d6 + 10 x 25d8 = 450d6 + 250d8 = 1575 + 1125 = 2700 damage on average.

That's 2700 damage per rest, with Area of Effect spells, that has -no- save. And that's not even counting the empowered and maximized ice storms, which would up that number by a lot.


The summons are still in. The difference is that you'll actually have to contribute to the combat, rather than just sit back and watch your summons do all the work.

That's it. You have to take a risk of actually dying in PvM, but you can dash out a shitload of damage while doing it.

Heck. You might even consider joining a party (Wow! You can do that? Wait... does that mean I have to share my loot with everyone?). With a party of 2-3 other meleers, you'll be a blessing from above in that you'll dash out so much damage, so fast, that you'll run through the spires faster than anyone ever before.


Damn. Those wizards really do have it hard.

Specially when you take into account that anyone with half ass wits can make a Wizard 29 / Bard 1 with 60 AC and 400+ HP.



What I'm trying to say, is... stop the fucking whining and bitching, and try to learn the fucking game instead, and the class you're playing.

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Darthion Illys

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Oh the passions... I love you guys

I cant say I have ever, ever soloed any area above Yuan-ti, and that was with a lvl 29 cleric, so my contributions to any arguments will be minimal.

What I don't understand about this whole thing is why the mage arguments are so against this change. Really all, this is a game that is suited for people to play "together". If you really wanted to solo everything, why join an online server at all? There are plenty of modules out there you could be playing. The difficulty is, that most people who know anything about builds DO solo almost ridiculously. In fact, as a side, I would be very curious to know how many of these epic bossloot auctions are made by people who are mages. Methinks there would be a very high positive correlation there.

People... play "together". This little change that makes epic summons deal out "a bit" less damage than before does not mean your epic wizard is suddenly gonna get plowed over by a spawn of mylocks. Seriously... learn to play with "others". You'd be surprised how much fun the game can be when you shift from the circular practice of epic-bosslooting to get more drops and gold so you can fund your next bossloot endeavor.

See? Told you I would offrer little.

As for the Ranger/Druid summons? Heck, I'd take a nerfing of pets at all levels if they would just act "smarter" by not focusing on one creature long enough to do "some" damage and then shift to the next creature.

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Direct Connect spamming champion two years running.
"The pointer fingers are insured"

I would like to state that I really feel sorry for some of you people.

It always the same people I see replying to these topics and it really makes me wonder why. I dont care if its unbalanced or if some people think its unfair.
Or even all those of you who will powerbuild for the new system and calculate every stupid point just to maximise your chances.

I salute all those other players it is my distinct pleasure to rp with on Amia who -dont- moan and whine and need to see every little number tweaked for some reason.

Leave Amia alone and enjoy it as it is please.

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Siggy by Maryn

Unfortunately for you, there's a lot of people who do care about balance and the game being fair. It's only so much fun when you get the shaft because one class is horribly overpowered.

That's not the case on Amia though. Amia is likely one of the most balanced servers I've ever played on, heard of or seen.

The small tweaks that are left to be made are not groundbreaking, yet still small pieces of the puzzle to create what may be considered as the closest possible outcome of striving for a balanced game world.

If we were to simply ignore the balance aspects of the game, we'd still have free-for-all Time Stops, unnerfed IGMS that deals out 420+ damage in one round, overpowered class features which may be exploited and true seeing that rids all hiders of their primary ability.

Burying your head into the sand won't make for a better world.

How much whining do you expect there would be if everything was left unchanged, and never sought to be improved?

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Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

Oh dear me ...

The more you change things the more people will ask for changes. That is simply human nature. You are never going to change that.

And let me clarify as it stands and even with the new changes, there is nothing wrong as things stand right now. But ... *shrugs* I am only one player who doesnt really worry about builds or what I can and cant solo to get epic loot and nice shinies.
If I can then great I have good fun finding out either way. But these kind of debates will run on forever and a day.

And now I must get back to my work so I will leave you all to debate *waves*

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Siggy by Maryn

Umm, just fyi, that still exists.

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In dragon- and umberhulk form, yes.

The spell itself doesn't.

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Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!