AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - PvP and non-Offensive Spells

I've been wondering this for a while now, especially given most people's automatic reaction when you use the PvP Tool on them.

Do you need to set someone to Hostile before casting Charm Person on them?

I'm sure there's other Spells the same question could be applied to.

It's probably of hostile intent, so hostiling might not be a bad idea.

Simply because of how he's designed, and my lack of faith with most of the characters I end up sucked into pvp with, my Sorcerer generally never uses the tool.

I am either forced to reactively use magic on neutral targets before I get face-stabbed (hate ... so ... much) or I hit hostile in the player menu so I don't lose a round to using the tool.

In a well RPed situation, the tool is a good thing though. Just be prepared for people to stop talking the moment they see that tool used and just slam you before you get your spell to trigger.

Player menu is fine, but you should *never* be casting on neutral targets. The *millisecond* you flash "XXXX is Casting a Spell" , the other person, who may only be seeing "Casts Unknown Spell" has permission to jack you in the face, hostile or not. It's forfeiture of permission, and the meleer is going to do far better in a Neutral -> neutral situation than a mage.

I should clarify my statement.

I'm casting a spell as a reaction to their battlecry and them charging me while still neutral. I Keep the player menu open to set them to hostile asap, but I use my "save or Lose" (dom or hold person, or bigbies) before they close to hit me.

This, thankfully does not happen often, as I do my best to avoid PvP. When PvP happens, unfortunatlely, it's usually a new player, or one of the "PvP Junkies" who offer little or no RP and then just charge you.

If forced to react quickly while hostile has not been set, you basically have two choices. You either make the best of it and react, or you do nothing and tell them that this is invalid 'till hostile is set and the encounter is started over. The latter isn't usually done, so it gets messy.. but you are within your right to demand a hostile setting. There's no weaseling around it, especially since mages have plenty of tricks that will only work when hostile.

Honestly, I'd be less than friendly towards people who cannot be arsed to follow the rules (especially if they seem like they are the PvPing type and should know better). If you don't crack down on their behaviour, there's sure to be more complaints rolling in from people.

Question:

hostile situation, meleer is slowly edging forward (crabwalking, insisting on staying within melee range of caster) towards caster while insults and threats are throw about.

Mage casts a spell and gets brutally beaten by meleer. Thats legit.

But then it should be legitimate for the mage to cast spell to stop the meleer from approaching in the first place without being hostile? No mage would let a meleer that is throwing threats/insults close in a hostile situation.

It would be against the rules if the mage used the PVP tool and while he does so the meleer goes KDkillpurgedestroy on his arse?

Which means a meleer approaching a mage in a hostile situation should set hostile before doing so.

Right?

I'd say yes. Otherwise the melee guy is exploiting the PvP tool OOC mechanic by minimizing running distance he'll have to cover before the mage can legitimately react.

Although if you just smell a hostile situation brewing, it's best if you have the playerlist open and your finger on the trigger, so to speak.

Terra_777 wrote:

Question:

hostile situation, meleer is slowly edging forward (crabwalking, insisting on staying within melee range of caster) towards caster while insults and threats are throw about.

Mage casts a spell and gets brutally beaten by meleer. Thats legit.

But then it should be legitimate for the mage to cast spell to stop the meleer from approaching in the first place without being hostile? No mage would let a meleer that is throwing threats/insults close in a hostile situation.

It would be against the rules if the mage used the PVP tool and while he does so the meleer goes KDkillpurgedestroy on his arse?

Which means a meleer approaching a mage in a hostile situation should set hostile before doing so.

Right?

I'd say "Stop", and if he doesn't I'd run back a bit, smack the guy on the player list and do your GS, buff, tear-meleer-to-pieces.

Otherwise they're exploiting PvP settings. Once you have said 'stop' and they don't they are being very hostile to you it would be no different to you starting to cast a spell and them smacking you for it.

Wonder if it's possible to make a script that automatically sets hostile if you attack or cast an offensive spell on someone?

D-Finitiy wrote:

Wonder if it's possible to make a script that automatically sets hostile if you attack or cast an offensive spell on someone?

I'm not sure about attacking, but spellcasting could be done by altering the spell scripts to add a "set hostile if not hostile already and enemy is a PC" thing to them.

#1 Mage RP rule is don't stand face to face with those meleers!

#1 mage rule is don't leave a No PvP area without your buffs.
If they're coming towards you in hostile RP, to me that is full justification for launching PvP yourself.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

I'm not sure about attacking, but spellcasting could be done by altering the spell scripts to add a "set hostile if not hostile already and enemy is a PC" thing to them.

I wouldn't really be supportive of this, since it wouldn't set to hostile until the spell was successfully cast and would give the mage a bit of an unfair start. Also, misfires.

The reason I named Charm Person specifically is because of what the Spell does. When successfully cast it gives the target a positive attitude towards the caster - it's essentially a Spell with the sole purpose of diffusing potentially hostile situations and has applications outside of PvP.

Sokar Rostau wrote:

The reason I named Charm Person specifically is because of what the Spell does. When successfully cast it gives the target a positive attitude towards the caster - it's essentially a Spell with the sole purpose of diffusing potentially hostile situations and has applications outside of PvP.

Then I suggest you inform the player OOCly, before casting the spell.

If you don't do that, -any- cast spell upon another character may be perceived as an offensive spell.

I believe this is something worth noting.

If they follow the rules (most) melee types are doomed if they try to fight a mage. And they know it.

I think almost all the hostile menu PvP violations happen with a melee character jumping and unbuffed mage, because most of the PvP inclined characters only care that "I MADE HIM DIE! I WIN EVEN IF HE COMPLAINS!"

I've actually done as xordae suggest, and tell them to stop, back the tape up, they violated the rules, etc, and then just get "Take it like a man" and they refuse to RP with "a poor sport who can't accept a defeat."

Hell, that's the standard issue excuse here.

As someone who came form WoW, where I was convinced being on a RPPvP server was a good idea, being ganked isn't bothersome enough for me to keep a list of every time it happens, but I figured I should point out, the current rules encourage cheating for Melee types.

Well from my point of view here and the way I conduct myself with regards to PvP is this...

If there is a situation that is -likely- to lead to PvP, and we all now when that is likely to happen, then I will generally put out a "// set to hostile?" If several people are likely to be involved in it. Also if there are pets, companions, summons and the like involved it is a common courtesy to have them set to hold as well. Its easy enough to use the voice commands when you want them to attack.

The only exception to this in my mind is when something sneaky is going on but even then I would send a tell to say that someone is being set to hostile, and that only -after- I had their permission.

And that is from someone who plays both mains as one melee and one mage I hope you will note.

If there is any question, set to hostile. Even before discussion. That way if anyone jumps the gun, you have free reign for all offense/GS you want. You are not breaking rules if you set to hostile and don't attack... it's really just protecting yourself.

Still, setting someone to hostile doesn't mean you can attack someone nor be attacked, without proper IC RP justification.

It's a good reminder. People tend to jump the gun as soon as someone (or something) shows up as glowing red.

Terra_777 wrote:

Question:

hostile situation, meleer is slowly edging forward (crabwalking, insisting on staying within melee range of caster) towards caster while insults and threats are throw about.

Which means a meleer approaching a mage in a hostile situation should set hostile before doing so.

Right?

Last I checked, there are no rules whatsoever against setting people to Hostile. It's a shame that the server culture among most players is that Red = definite PvP. Better if there was a shift to Red = Just Not Proven Friendly Yet.

Set Hostile, then make sure one of your insult/threats is: I regret to inform you that I will harm you if you come any closer, my good sir.

In my Humbledore, you're on pretty safe ground if you've specified that actively undertaking or continuing Action X means war. There's a qualitive difference between that and demanding they start doing Action Y or die.

Just becuase you set to hostile doesnt mean a fight is about to break out. Several times I have had this happn to me and nothing ever came of it. Well at least nothing more than a lot of words and funny posturing.

But as was sadi above me, having someone glow red doesnt mean you have to attack them.

Uberuce wrote:

Terra_777 wrote:

Question:

hostile situation, meleer is slowly edging forward (crabwalking, insisting on staying within melee range of caster) towards caster while insults and threats are throw about.

Which means a meleer approaching a mage in a hostile situation should set hostile before doing so.

Right?

Last I checked, there are no rules whatsoever against setting people to Hostile. It's a shame that the server culture among most players is that Red = definite PvP. Better if there was a shift to Red = Just Not Proven Friendly Yet.

Set Hostile, then make sure one of your insult/threats is: I regret to inform you that I will harm you if you come any closer, my good sir.

In my Humbledore, you're on pretty safe ground if you've specified that actively undertaking or continuing Action X means war. There's a qualitive difference between that and demanding they start doing Action Y or die.

I'm inclined to agree. However, if you're the mage as soon as you press the red button they have a tendency to charge at you.

Edit: Oh, and the opposite to that - the mage that starts buffing.

Buffing in PvP is the quickest way to lose for a Mage.

You either instantly win or instantly lose most of the time.

Once I'm in GS, and you are hostile to me, and I'm mobile, it's over.

A well played Mage doesn't stand in place to get Reality Potion'd or AoE Mord'd. This is why the rules tend to get ignored. They know they are either doomed, or will spend massive amounts of resources and I cast a couple of spells.

I'm talking about casting haste and all that jazz -before- PvP starts

I know. I don't even cast haste until I'm safely in GS, and way out of range.

If I -have- to be hasted, I drink a potion after using GS.

When your AC is 10, and you have d4 hitdice, you can't afford to waste any time buffing in a potentially hostile situation. I'm gone as fast as possible, and usually, just leave. Occasionally I watch annoyed melee thugs running around chugging their reality potions.

If I have to defend/save a friend, I come back prepared and at that point it's pretty much all over if the offending opponent is still around.

Pretty much my philosophy is simple. You start casting, I start pounding.

Which is why I laugh *HAR HAR HAR* at anyone sending Frey a tell when he walks through Cordor to the Market Square

"Hey, mind loosing some of those buffs Mr. Christmas tree?"

"HAR HAR HAR"

C'mon people, he's a Mage... he's suppose to glow like that.

Regards,

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Which is why I laugh *HAR HAR HAR* at anyone sending Frey a tell when he walks through Cordor to the Market Square

"Hey, mind loosing some of those buffs Mr. Christmas tree?"

"HAR HAR HAR"

C'mon people, he's a Mage... he's suppose to glow like that.

Regards,

You're supposed to glitter whenever you don't turn green when people hit tab, not all the time

Delaralia Vandree also always had her buffs on when outside. For some Mages it is simply necessary because they are not idiots looking to get killed (when they have enough enemies).

The problem occurs when the Mage then proceeds to stand at Cordor square for 2 hours while flaunting all his buffs. Mages are awfully clever and are said to have a very good foresight, knowing where they want to be, will be and shouldn't be and all that. I can better live with a little IC breakage by seeing someone doing a 20 second rest on the temple porch, than the client lag caused by lit up christmas trees.

Drannok, this situation with getting jumped, and the reply of "Don't be a wimp and take the loss" is just what I've seen happen a lot of times. And it is still a weaseling around the rule. They are not in the right to say that what happened, happened when they did not follow a set in stone protocol for such an encounter. THEY are the ones who should take it like a man by following the established PvP rules. Don't hesitate to call a DM to the situation, because PvP issues like these can seldom be amicably settled between players.

PvP and non-Offensive Spells

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