I noticed something the other day, need some clarification.
Epic Sorceror Bonus Feats are only Epic Feats?
I wanted to take either Greater Spell Penetration or Greater Spell Focus. Neither was on the list. Both spells appear as General Feats. There were also no Metamagic feats available.
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side stacking question,
can you mythal on two different ability bonuses?
eg - i have a fullplate +2con +2 str, but i dont remember if I did that or if it came that way.
I also have a towershield with +2 con, can i mythal +2 wis onto it and keep the con?
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I also have a towershield with +2 con, can i mythal +2 wis onto it and keep the con?
I have to disagree with Standing. Unless something has changed, this is just like Elemental damages. The number of powers is not relevant in this matter. Once and ability bonus of any calibur is on an item, any attempt to add another will either be canceled or override the original.
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How well does something like a Pure rogue or Rogue/fighter (hypothetically say.. 25/5 for the sake of getting Epic Weapon focuse and the extra attack per round..) stand up overall in the grand scheme of building? Particularly by Amian standards? It'd be a skill monkey and have massive Sneak damage, but in a world where people can drum up 50+attack bonus could the build come anywhere near holding its own PvM or PvP?
Related questions: How does the rock, paper, scissors game work where Stealthing vs. Detecting Stealthers is concerned?
And Parry: Neat idea, but worth anything at all?
_________________ Captain William Jackson Malloy of the Debra Sanchez! also staring: Elyon Vassius, Paladin of Kelemvor Kael Jericko, gentleman of fortune. Marcus Tyberius of the Eternal Order
I hate HIPS and I hate the use of it...but, the more I think about it, the more I think it makes sense for a monk to have it. So I think, i'll de-level 2 or 3 levels and go back to the original idea of 21monk/6SD/1rogue for Drem. Its similar to the 20monk/6SD/4fighter concept Uce mentions above. But a slightly lower hit rate (monks get weapon spec. on an item anyway so don't need 4 fighter). But with the added advantage of UMD + d6 sneak and the disadvantage of 4 AB. But against mages and dev. critters, HIPS is a god send (especially wth monk speed) as is Epic Dodge against Dev. Critters and since Monks will never be able to hit the side of a Barn Door even with an added 4 AB, I figure it doesn't even matter to bother with fighter and 10% more speed is neither here nor there tbh (that is, there's not much difference between a level 25 monk and a level 21 monk).
The thing with HIPS is, you don't have to use it, unless you really need to. Which is how I'll probably use it.
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Strength was intentionally left as an odd number- starting with 19 instead of 20 dex allowed me to add 2 points to my INT and I would have wound up with an odd number of DEX anyway.
Character meant to be a fencer/scoundrel sort... I have enough skill points to pick up all the essential rogue skills (Hide/Move Silently, Disarm Trap, Pick Locks, Search, Tumble, UMD) and I also managed to pick up a healthy Discipline and Maxed Parry.
Thoughts, opinions?
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Rogue gets an extra 1d6 Sneak at level 23. Going to Rogue 22/Fighter 6 means you lose that 1d6 but can get E/WS together on the same level, freeing up a feat slot elsewhere and allowing you to boost your BAB if 5th Fighter is taken pre-Epic. With that spare Feat you could pick up a Skill Focus (Discipline maybe) or, as you say you're playing a scoundrel-type, Disarm. Another option is to take Luck of Heroes at level 1.
_________________ "Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
How well does something like a Pure rogue or Rogue/fighter (hypothetically say.. 25/5 for the sake of getting Epic Weapon focuse and the extra attack per round..) stand up overall in the grand scheme of building? Particularly by Amian standards? It'd be a skill monkey and have massive Sneak damage, but in a world where people can drum up 50+attack bonus could the build come anywhere near holding its own PvM or PvP?
Learn how to trapnest and cornersneak, and it's excellent. The survivability Epic Dodge gives you is huge.
Quote:
Related questions: How does the rock, paper, scissors game work where Stealthing vs. Detecting Stealthers is concerned?
For eavesdropping, the detectors win. For any given level of build/equipment skillpoint whoring, the detectors will always be able to sniff you out because you need to be 20 points above them to stay undetectable indefinitely. An opposed d20 roll where A is ten points higher than B will be won by A around 82% of the time; generally speaking good SD's are on 110 Hide/MS, and anti-SD people are on 100 Spot/Listen. There are novelty builds which exceed that in both, but they tend to pay disproportionately highly for the heavy WIS and feat investment.
The best skill score you can possibly have is 128, but that won't be 128 on the sheet; I think the best Hide/MS you can see on the sheet is 118: the 128 score will include the circumstance modifiers, while getting Spot/Listen to 108 on the sheet isn't anything like as hard as that 118 Hide/MS, plus you get circumstance mods too.
Even if you don't have any ranks in Spot/Listen, it's easy to pick a room that you can Umber Hulk around in; then you can talk freely and keep an eye on the door. If it opens, assume a sneak.
For combat, it's absurdly and ridiculously broken in the Shadowdancer's favour, but pretty even for a cornersneak.
Quote:
And Parry: Neat idea, but worth anything at all?
The only two things it has going for it is that it stays active during a Taunt, and that you can stand still in Parry mode indefinitely, to the detriment of folk popping out of stealth/invs/GS at you.
How well does something like a Pure rogue or Rogue/fighter (hypothetically say.. 25/5 for the sake of getting Epic Weapon focuse and the extra attack per round..) stand up overall in the grand scheme of building? Particularly by Amian standards? It'd be a skill monkey and have massive Sneak damage, but in a world where people can drum up 50+attack bonus could the build come anywhere near holding its own PvM or PvP?
Learn how to trapnest and cornersneak, and it's excellent. The survivability Epic Dodge gives you is huge.
Quote:
Related questions: How does the rock, paper, scissors game work where Stealthing vs. Detecting Stealthers is concerned?
For eavesdropping, the detectors win. For any given level of build/equipment skillpoint whoring, the detectors will always be able to sniff you out because you need to be 20 points above them to stay undetectable indefinitely. An opposed d20 roll where A is ten points higher than B will be won by A around 82% of the time; generally speaking good SD's are on 110 Hide/MS, and anti-SD people are on 100 Spot/Listen. There are novelty builds which exceed that in both, but they tend to pay disproportionately highly for the heavy WIS and feat investment.
The best skill score you can possibly have is 128, but that won't be 128 on the sheet; I think the best Hide/MS you can see on the sheet is 118: the 128 score will include the circumstance modifiers, while getting Spot/Listen to 108 on the sheet isn't anything like as hard as that 118 Hide/MS, plus you get circumstance mods too.
Even if you don't have any ranks in Spot/Listen, it's easy to pick a room that you can Umber Hulk around in; then you can talk freely and keep an eye on the door. If it opens, assume a sneak.
For combat, it's absurdly and ridiculously broken in the Shadowdancer's favour, but pretty even for a cornersneak.
Quote:
And Parry: Neat idea, but worth anything at all?
The only two things it has going for it is that it stays active during a Taunt, and that you can stand still in Parry mode indefinitely, to the detriment of folk popping out of stealth/invs/GS at you.
How does one get to the upper-tier levels of hide/move silently? Is there just gear that tops you out at an insane level or?
_________________ Captain William Jackson Malloy of the Debra Sanchez! also staring: Elyon Vassius, Paladin of Kelemvor Kael Jericko, gentleman of fortune. Marcus Tyberius of the Eternal Order
How does one get to the upper-tier levels of hide/move silently? Is there just gear that tops you out at an insane level or?
Gear/spell can give up to +50. You also have 33 skill ranks + 10 Epic Skill Focus + DEX modifier. Assume DEX 40 (buffed), that's +15. This puts you at 108. Then add some minor feats like Stealthy, (pre-epic) Skill focus, small size bonus, Trackless step to get a few more points.
Note that +50 hide/ms can be done with Amia gear, but it needs some dedication. About half of the hide bonus can also be obtained from spells (Camouflage, Mass Camouflage, One with the land) or you could ask a friendly bard. Someone will surely point out that the latter options are only viable when you need be in stealth for few minutes only.
I keep forgetting that Camo and Mass Camo weigh in at 10 turns/level, so the two of them fromitems are good for fifty and ninety minutes, respectively, and entire reset intervals if you're casting it from Ranger 25+.
You need 21 of the casting class. Not only would that be ridiculously broken if you didnt but the EPic spell feats only become available after you reach lvl 21 in your casting class.
15 levels of Pale Master does the trick, too. *kicks Bioware in the nuts for letting Bards cast epic spells*
The focus and metamagic feats only need 9th level spellcasting and various chunks of Spellcraft. Amusingly, all the caster classes can take the epic focus/metamagic feats on bonus epic feats, even though Bard/Pally/Ranger need to piggyback onto cleric/wiz/druid 17 or sorc18.
By the by - Palemaster, worth it vs Pure Wiz if only for the RP and Immun?
Buildwise: no
Immunities only come at lvl 10PM, so that means sacking your wiz levels to 15 or below for epic spells (14 and below means you can get dispelled with lesser dispell)
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I am pretty sure the general consensus is that anything a Pale Master can do, a pure Wizard can do better. Besides summoning the Winter Wright. And being immune to criticals.
But then again if you are fully buffed at Caster Level 30 and can't be dispelled easily, people probably shouldn't be hitting too often either.
A bit more of a mechanics question. As it concerns spellcasting, Caster Level has more of an effect on duration than anything else, right? For offensive DCs, from what I have gathered, CL does not even enter into the equation, it is based on spell level and Ability mod correct?
Keep in mind, I am aware that spell availability, epic qualifications, and damage rolls (most of which cap at 15d6 or 20d6) are affected by CL, but I am speaking of actual DC involved in the casted spell. I hope this question makes sense.
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Your caster level comes into play when you attempt to break Spell Resistance.
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Pretty much. Counterspelling too, I think. Maybe. You've already taken into consideration your spell potency as far as dice of damage are concerned. Your buff durations, and the difficulty of dispelling your spells is also a factor.
_________________ Morgan Blancrest: The Rage from The Cage Lucas Baker: Humble Swordsman Wesley Fletcher: Greasemonkey Extraordonaire Also known as: EmoPinata
Okay, guys. I've got an important question to ask all of you.
Which would you rather have in a Blackguard build - a significantly above-average Dev Crit DC with Divine Shield/Might and Saves suffering some (+6 - +8 range); or an average Dev Crit with the premium +10 divine and possibly better HP; or a blackguard lacking Dev Crit whatsoever and having Epic Skill Focus Discipline, Epic Fortitude, and the survivability that comes with?
My personal opinion, I would go for the average DC with +10 Divine stuff. People will tell you that you need an uber DC, but really, how many people and creatures have a maxed fortitude save?
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My personal opinion, I would go for the average DC with +10 Divine stuff. People will tell you that you need an uber DC, but really, how many people and creatures have a maxed fortitude save?
A lot of people, actually.
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So, making a drow shifter(druid 5)/Assassin. Need advice on how to cobble it together. I want one Epic shifter level to get Undead Shape and after there I'm open to suggestions.
The primary question is do I go strength or dexterity based? Should I push up the shifter levels to get the epic versions of the various forms? Basically I've never made a shifter and to make it more difficult this is more of an RP build so I'm not going after a high wisdom score and will not be using Druid spells at all.
So, I would like to use a katana when unshifted but not a requirement. I will be using Underdark forms in combat almost exclusivly. I will need to put quite a bit into Bluff. I was thinking 17 Shifter(+5 Druid)/ 6 Assassin for a total of 28. Again, not set in stone here, would it be better to take more Assassin levels for the death attack? What to do
My personal opinion, I would go for the average DC with +10 Divine stuff. People will tell you that you need an uber DC, but really, how many people and creatures have a maxed fortitude save?
Fort stacking is pretty much to be expecting anywhere Devcrit is legal.
It's the only way to counter it, other than Palemaster or Undead Shape, and you still get those "Great. A one." moments all to often because most Dev Critters have high BAB.
I hate Devcrit. People argue that Sorcerer and Wizards spells are worse (they are in PnP) but in a real time setting like NWN, Devcrit is the end all be all cheese of the game, especially combined with HiPs.
Thankfully, and I still count it as a miracle, most of the players with Devcrit builds here are responsible, and don't horribly, horribly abuse it in mindless PvP (I see HiPs abuse daily though).
... That's my Devcrit rant. On topic, don't make any build here that relies on Fortitude Save spells or abilities.
_________________ Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
It's easy for your HiPs Spot stacked Sorcerer MONSTROSITY with epic swag
Devcrit is not scary once you have the saves for it.
Devcrit DOES ruin anyone elses fun though.
It also forces monsters to have bonkers fort, or be crit immune. The real reason for my dislike of Devcrit is it makes high fort required for everything where it exist, this ruining a bunch of other abilities and skills, such as death attack, poison, and a few useful spells.
Distance, a mage is dead in melee range dev or not. Most mages has baby rabbit fort and devcritters have baby will and mindblank pots is never the solution since they're like CL 9; mord'n'confuse.
Oh, devcritters arent immune to bigbys forcefull even though they might think so.
But, yeah, wail aint the way to kill stuff in last level places since they're immune to death magic. So the only way to go is dominating a balor/celestial knight/kaz'hork/baby rabbit.
About fort: ( specific save fort + universal saves ) capped at 20 + con mod + base aint that hard to go from baby fort to gottarolla1tonotdie. I think, right?
_________________ Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
Devcrit is not scary once you have the saves for it.
Devcrit DOES ruin anyone elses fun though.
Everyone has the saves for it, if they can be bothered spending time in a Mythal forge. With 10 base CON, no feats and no Fort favouring classes pre-epic, you can get to 37.
Now, if you haven't got something supersexy in return for only having 10 CON and being featless, something like Epic Dodge, HiPS at a bajillion Hide/MS, a 40+ spell DC, then your build, frankly, sucks. You need to compare it to equally sucky Devcritters, who will have crap saves, 50AC at best and a Dev DC of 37.
Edit: Actually, no. You don't, because a melee build of equal sucktitude doesn't even have Devcrit.
Last edited by Uberuce on Fri, Mar 20 2009, 9:14 AM, edited 1 time in total.
So, making a drow shifter(druid 5)/Assassin. Need advice on how to cobble it together. I want one Epic shifter level to get Undead Shape and after there I'm open to suggestions.
The primary question is do I go strength or dexterity based? Should I push up the shifter levels to get the epic versions of the various forms? Basically I've never made a shifter and to make it more difficult this is more of an RP build so I'm not going after a high wisdom score and will not be using Druid spells at all.
So, I would like to use a katana when unshifted but not a requirement. I will be using Underdark forms in combat almost exclusivly. I will need to put quite a bit into Bluff. I was thinking 17 Shifter(+5 Druid)/ 6 Assassin for a total of 28. Again, not set in stone here, would it be better to take more Assassin levels for the death attack? What to do
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