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[ 40 posts ] |
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QPR
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 Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 10:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Im just curious, what is the official stance towards what a character becomes when he shifts? Example; my shifter learns the goblin shape, is it fine to RP him as becoming a goblin, with their traits, mindset, attitude, language etc, or is it just the physical shape he gains?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Drannok
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 10:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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Strictly speaking, as with wildshape, you gain only the physical scores of said creatures.
Your voice would change with the vocal cords. But it has no effect on your mind.
_________________
Drannok Stranvil - Mystran Loremaster
Rugnar Wildbrew - Dwarvern Scout
El'thanion Nuleaf - Wood Elf Shifter (Inactive)
Thayzin Goldenmaul - Gold Dwarf Paladin of Moradin (Inactive)
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 10:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Last I looked, the official stance is that you can't gain language proficiency X by shifting into an X, but you've got free reign to alter your character's personality as they change shape.
Then again you've got free reign to alter your character's personality as they change shoes.
"Yesterday I was a snivelling worm, clad in my biege slippers, but today I wear the Red Espadrilles Of Dhoom; thus fiery wrath and bile spews from my every pore! Bow in the face of your death, foolish insect!"
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Terra_777
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 10:55 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Location: Sweden
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I got sort of hard to see why a high wisdom shifter would get a mind transplant.
_________________
Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
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Lesquille
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 11:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
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Because the player wants them to. That's a good enough reason.
_________________
Born to a [wealth level] family, you spent your early years doing [early activity] in [town type]. Your father was [father status], while your mother was [mother status]. You left your homeland at the age of [chosen age], seeking [reason for leaving].
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 11:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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QPR wrote: Im just curious, what is the official stance towards what a character becomes when he shifts? Example; my shifter learns the goblin shape, is it fine to RP him as becoming a goblin, with their traits, mindset, attitude, language etc, or is it just the physical shape he gains?
Shapeshifters acquire the physical, magical (both spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities; not extraordinary however), and racial traits of whatever they shift in to.
Their mind, however, is 100% untouched. You learn nothing and forget nothing. You learn no new languages, nor is your personality forcibly changed. Their INT, WIS, and CHA scores remain identical and are likewise, untouched, excluding loss to those abilities that occurs from magical items no longer being actively worn.
Many shifters do experience aftereffects of a changed perspective. A halfling shifter that turns into an orc, for example, is likely to feel rather powerful and mighty; only because suddenly he's bigger than everyone that once dwarfed him. But that's about it.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Terra_777
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 11:57 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Location: Sweden
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Lesquille wrote: Because the player wants them to. That's a good enough reason.
Sure is, and I could totally see basic instincts of creature X stacking over to Shifter Y assuming X'es shape. 
But not whole mindsets.
_________________
Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
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HellScourge
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 12:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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Wasn't there a sort of ability that allowed shifters to speak in the native tongue of the form they took?
_________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
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xordae
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 12:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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That ability is an old hat DM decision and has since been retconned.
As for a Shifter's mind... I've always played mine as empathy being an integral part of the shifting procedure. When you become a Minotaur.. you will think different because you have to, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to turn into one. This could be all drivel, but it makes things much more interesting. And if you feel that always being 100% the same regardless of your shape is a little boring too, then don't be afraid to go your own way and find your own explanations. :)
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Zante
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 12:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Seeing as a shifter staying in one shape faces the risk of losing his identity and true shape, I think assuming that the mind gets affected in some way is reasonable.
_________________ 
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Eighty-One
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 14:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
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WonWon wrote: Shapeshifters acquire the physical, magical (both spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities; not extraordinary however), and racial traits of whatever they shift in to.
So technically if you shift into a form that usually lacks the intellect to speak, e.g. a dog, you retain your vocal ability from your true form?
_________________
~ Alexandria Do'Maetri, Champion of Tyr
~ Glam Snowfell, of mysticism and magery
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TeroSNS
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 16:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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I think the subject depends totally on the roleplaying factors. For example, a shifter who gets his powers by eating the souls and acquiring their forms (a neutral evil one), could indeed have the languages, personality and other things the original ones had. If you take shifter who learns his/her forms through hard work, studying and battle experience, he might not get the personality traits. So summing it up: They get the personality traits, languages and/or any other traits, if you have a valid roleplay reason.
[quote="Zante"]Seeing as a shifter staying in one shape faces the risk of losing his identity and true shape, I think assuming that the mind gets affected in some way is reasonable.[/quote]
shifters lose their identity as soon as they become shifters. in the prestige class description it says that all that matters to them is soul. Meaning that the birthform they had, even if it is more used becouse you don't want get killed just for looking like a drow/minotaur/drider, is only a form amongst others.
_________________ My favourite sniper loadout: Huntsman, jarate, bushwacka. Team Fortress 2 is FREE TO PLAY! 
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Geld Yaztran
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 17:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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When I RP'd my shifter, I had it set so that due to their druidic lvls they understood basic things inherent to ALL animals, thus though he could act like whatever animal he became, he didn't acquire languages and such.
In other words, he'd act like an orc when he was one but it didn't mean he could speak orcish. He'd even have an urge to say things like "Me crush you!", but never in orcish, as it is a learned language and not something an orc is born with.
So as I see it, a shifter would only get what comes INHERENT with being said creature (ie an orc is more aggressive). He only gets what ANY creature is BORN with, not what they could learn(such as orcish).
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Uberuce
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 17:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Eighty-One wrote: So technically if you shift into a form that usually lacks the intellect to speak, e.g. a dog, you retain your vocal ability from your true form? You retain the exact same ability to attempt to form words, but how well you succeed depends on the shape you're in. The Druid Wildshape spider and the Stone Golem, for example, don't have any kind of larnyx, so you'd not be able to communicate except by scribbling in the dirt, or by the FR equivalent of Morse Code, should such a thing exist. On the other extreme, the likes of Drow might actually improve your diction.
You'd struggle to make yourself understood in the Dire Tiger; that thing's got canines bigger than mine, which will make it even less easy to speak than the relatively unsubtle tongue and voicebox the cat possesses.
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corypx
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 17:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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WonWon wrote: Shapeshifters acquire the physical, magical (both spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities; not extraordinary however), and racial traits of whatever they shift in to.
shape shifting also counts as a extraordinary abilitity because it functions normally in an antimagic field.(from what I remember)
about the not geting extraordinary abilities, our forms offen do get them. vampire Fast Healing,Resistances and Blood Drain all count as extraordinary and we have them. also its safe to say we would have Spider Climb in the form as well, and what other skills the forms we take would get (within reason)
Darkvision,Medusa poison,Manticore spikes,dragon/wyrm immunities to sleep and paralysis effects,Azer heat, also count as extraordinary. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Geld Yaztran
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 17:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
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So if you tried to say "hello" with a human mouth and tongue while you were in a dogs body, it would come out all funky and stuff. Which means you'd have to sit there in a dog form and literally develop a new way of saying the same old words you know as human or whatever...which would take years IG really......
Being able to speak as an animal should be DM approved with prior RP accordingly..like the shadowjump widget. I don't think every dog shifter should be able to talk.
*edited* Also note that even if you learned how to speak as a dog, that in no way means you'd know how to speak as let's say, a chicken. Therefore you'd have to also spend years as a chicken to learn to say human words through a beak and such. Speaking animals should be made impossible altogether.
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Black_Dragon_Adept
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 19:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Location: Somebodies couch
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I want to make a shifter who's mind changes with each shift, an entirely new personality that my original form is unaware of.
_________________
(No longer plays evil characters, and as such has none)
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corypx
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 19:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Black_Dragon_Adept wrote: I want to make a shifter who's mind changes with each shift, an entirely new personality that my original form is unaware of. that would not give you OOC justification to turn into a monster and attack everyone you see, so dont waste your time trying to make one just for that purpose. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Black_Dragon_Adept
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 20:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Location: Somebodies couch
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Thats not what I said at all, and im....not so surprised you would come to that conclusion for me...
But im not like that anymore
_________________
(No longer plays evil characters, and as such has none)
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Hexx_stonebeard
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 20:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Transilvania's slutty american cousin Pen
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Geld Yaztran wrote: So if you tried to say "hello" with a human mouth and tongue while you were in a dogs body, it would come out all funky and stuff. Which means you'd have to sit there in a dog form and literally develop a new way of saying the same old words you know as human or whatever...which would take years IG really......
uh huh uh hu reaaahh! Re-rohh.. raggy.. ScooOOby snacks!
_________________
___________________
Stone Pebblechin: ~Golden Phoenix Entertainment~
Fletcher Green: Safety conscious Archer
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 20:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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its completely up to the person whether or not they want to speak in forms that can't normally speak, but its ridiculous. I have no respect for people who take that shortcut. seeing a talking dog gives the game a cartoony look imo, and I don't want the game to turn into that kind of thing.
please don't talk in animal forms... but I can't force you to stop...
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 21:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Zante wrote: Seeing as a shifter staying in one shape faces the risk of losing his identity and true shape, I think assuming that the mind gets affected in some way is reasonable.
That's a personal thing, not a class thing. It's in reference to a shifter loving being a whatever so much he hangs out in the form for 300 years or whatever.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 21:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Geld Yaztran wrote: So as I see it, a shifter would only get what comes INHERENT with being said creature (ie an orc is more aggressive). He only gets what ANY creature is BORN with, not what they could learn(such as orcish).
What if you shifted into a Drow? On the Amiawiki it says all Drow know Drow language. Just curious.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 22:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No. You don't get it.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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The Cobbit
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 22:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Location: Satellite Of Love
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2k8ste wrote: Geld Yaztran wrote: So as I see it, a shifter would only get what comes INHERENT with being said creature (ie an orc is more aggressive). He only gets what ANY creature is BORN with, not what they could learn(such as orcish). What if you shifted into a Drow? On the Amiawiki it says all Drow know Drow language. Just curious. You're just wearing a drow suit. You're not granted automatic knowledge of drow language, culture, or the blueprints to Ultrinaan.
Same goes for any humanoid form. While you may be wearing a new and pretty suit, you're still you. No extra knowledge gained. You speak whatever language you already know.
And if you're an animal, your language is limited to barking, mooing, bleating, meowing, and neighing... Hopefully not all at once.
_________________
I have a large seashell collection which I keep scattered on the beaches all over the world. Maybe you've seen it.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2009, 22:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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The Cobbit wrote: 2k8ste wrote: Geld Yaztran wrote: So as I see it, a shifter would only get what comes INHERENT with being said creature (ie an orc is more aggressive). He only gets what ANY creature is BORN with, not what they could learn(such as orcish). What if you shifted into a Drow? On the Amiawiki it says all Drow know Drow language. Just curious. You're just wearing a drow suit. You're not granted automatic knowledge of drow language, culture, or the blueprints to Ultrinaan. Same goes for any humanoid form. While you may be wearing a new and pretty suit, you're still you. No extra knowledge gained. You speak whatever language you already know. And if you're an animal, your language is limited to barking, mooing, bleating, meowing, and neighing... Hopefully not all at once. Kay, thought as much.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Galenson
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 0:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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There is no RP as a shifter. It's just... shiftyness and animals talking and ugh.
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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corypx
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 0:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Galenson wrote: There is no RP as a shifter. It's just... shiftyness and animals talking and ugh.
some people do use forms for RP, I offen try and find a way too use my forms in DM events or pranks.
I used spector form once and acted like a persons summon so then everyone started to hate him. the forms all have skills you just need too use them, oh look a building is on fire I turn into a white wyrmling and blow it out, avalanche red wyrm and melt the snow. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 1:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Galenson wrote: There is no RP as a shifter. It's just... shiftyness and animals talking and ugh.
Um... no, shifters have just fine RP, you cleric biased silly.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Galenson
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 1:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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All shifter RP I've ever encountered was... dissapointing for me to say the least. It was always "hey I can do that! I can speak fluent common as a tiger! I can be an utter arse and shift as a wyrmling in Cordor and make a huge fuss when I get dragged out by poor Cordor Guard private Galenson. Hey it's acceptable to shift as a mindflayer around Duergar and then chuck a huge OOC hissy fit when the duergars immediately PvP me and kick me out of the party."
It's left a very sour mark on how I see shifters both ICly and OOCly (I'm refering OOCly at the character, not the player). I don't mean to be an arse about it... I'm just hardly impressed by shifters in general.
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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Delarwyn
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 2:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Aligators land...
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Shifting is actually fun..they are great for disguises and spy work.. who will mind a pretty rabbit by your conversation? They can be used to scary friends, to shake the butt like a nymph, Nasrudin is the champion on that..
I think you can do loads of stuff when you are able to shift.. For example, a fey of the Revelry hosts usually shifts to entertain folks, to make pranks and such. They are enthusiasts, performers, entertainers in general. There is a great chance for great rp with this..
You just need imagination you know? _________________ 
Signature by Qualiz
Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 4:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Galenson wrote: There is no RP as a shifter. It's just... shiftyness and animals talking and ugh.
there is no RP as an RDD. everyone takes it for wings or str.
there is no RP as an SD. ppl just think its cool to be sneaky and disappear whenever they want.
there is no RP as a palemaster. they just want a bone arm.
I could go on, but I won't because my nose is growing too big for my face. there are always people to make a class look bad. there are just as many people, if not more, who are into the RP and lore and really get into being who their character is.
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corypx
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 4:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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blackvswhite wrote: there is no RP as a palemaster. they just want a bone arm.
bone arm is cool but I think its more of having all the nice added bonues of undead but without that pesky heal spells killing you. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 5:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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blackvswhite wrote:
there is no RP as an RDD. everyone takes it for wings or str.
Not completely true, i have chars which are Dragon Disciples but i haven't took the class as them, so no wings or bonus STR, RDD doesn't neccessarily mean you have dragon blood, maybe that's why it's called a Dragon 'Disciple' and not just Red Dragon.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 5:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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RDD does actually mean you have some mote of dragon descendancy within you.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Eighty-One
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 5:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Bangalore, India
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2k8ste wrote: Not completely true, i have chars which are Dragon Disciples but i haven't took the class as them, so no wings or bonus STR, RDD doesn't neccessarily mean you have dragon blood, maybe that's why it's called a Dragon 'Disciple' and not just Red Dragon.
It's possible to have characters with dragon blood who are not Dragon Disciples, but if you are a Dragon Disciple, you must have dragon blood. The 'Disciple' I would think refers to constant work in seeking and mastering your heritage, thus gaining the nasty breath abilities and others. Some people just don't use Colgate, but these chaps are extra-dedicated to cavities.
_________________
~ Alexandria Do'Maetri, Champion of Tyr
~ Glam Snowfell, of mysticism and magery
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 7:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Well then, i guess Red Dragon Descendant would be better fitting than Disciple since that means a follower of someone, and you don't have to be family to someone to be a follower of them kind of thing. But oh well.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 10:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I suppose it refers to a fanatic obsession towards your draconic ancestors, a quest to learn everything you can from and about them, and I suppose becoming an actual apprentice/disciple to a dragon would be the ideal training for any RDD. They don't manifest their heritage spontaneously, they intentionally pursue it by means magical and mundane. You don't accidentally become RDD just by being born with dragon blood, it's something you're dedicated to accomplishing to an unhealthy extent.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Shrewd
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Posted: Sun, Mar 15 2009, 11:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2005
Location: Sydney
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There is plenty of Shifter RP to go around. But everyone does it differently.
The problem comes along when people don't think about what their shifter actually is. I've seen crap like people shifting into animals and other things and then typing-
"(Animal) Hello! How are you Mr Wolf? What time is it?! Dinner time?!"
Ok so maybe not word for word... but you know what I mean.
So here's something to maybe give Shifter's minds a jolt in their RP.
The Druid Shapeshifter.
This Druid worships a Druidic God/Goddess and adheres to all of their Druidic Oaths. They have become so in tune with nature, that their Wildshape ability has expanded to encompass other beings, even those of a magical nature.
The Understanding Shapeshifter.
This person is empathy. It is as simple as that. Their whole life, they have had a greater understanding of others and their environment than any other person could hope to match. This person was once a Druid, but has looked past that lifestyle to try and understand other animals/beings further than what they already know. They want to understand. And what better way to understand, than to see it from that person/creature's perspective?
The True Shifter.
Though this person was born as an Elf/Human/Drow/Dwarf/Hin/whatever/etc, they know that it is only a form. Only a shape that they were born as. One of many that they could choose to take. Only through changing their shapes can they discover their true self. Their shifting is a path to self-discovery.
The Dark Acolyte.
A twisted and evil person who has performed numerous rituals to attain an unholy ability. Some ancient religions beleive that when you eat the heart, or flesh of another being or animal, you may gain it's strength. Through your rituals, you have gained not only their strength, but their shape. This shifter seeks out those creatures which he desires, and performs his ritual to take their heart... and make them a part of him.
I'm sure you can think of many other examples. I've thought of a bunch of others, but these ones sprung to mind. I'm not saying there is any right way to play a shifter. These are just things to consider, perhaps they will spark an idea?
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Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Mon, Mar 16 2009, 1:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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My shifter is an Ogrillion. Yeah yeah, all that about how they are supposed to be stupid and there are too many exceptions...
Anyways, he finds himself an outcast and dislikes his birth form for it. The shamans of his clan saw his potential and educated him to the best of their abilities and he set off to increase his knowledge. He seeks to find more suitable bodies to live in so he won't be an outcast. He studies the creatures he comes across and pays close attention to their muscle movement and physiology in general.
Hunt with him, its great
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