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BlackDahlya

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:21 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming

2k8ste wrote:

He isn't speaking about each and every single DM;

Quote:

some of the DM team

Which goes back to my point.

Take it to the person in question instead of making a whole thread about it with an edge of doomsaying.

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BlackDahlya

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Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:24 AM

Player

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

I don't think Met made this thread, since most of the messages are from another thread. I'd actually take this as a spiteful jab from someone whom decided to move a bunch of messages.

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Kendera

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:26 AM

Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2005

Maryn wrote:

Kendera wrote:

The problem isn't the DMs. It's us. Sooner we start gauging our responses, and leave our virtual pride in the entry area, the better off we'll be.

....
I may have quoted someone quoting me.
Re-emphasizing. <3

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TormakSaber

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:27 AM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I don't think Met made this thread, since most of the messages are from another thread. I'd actually take this as a spiteful jab from someone whom decided to move a bunch of messages.

Dev Disco wrote:

Split from Sokar's thread because that one deserves better credit than this regular item.

My comment about this: make a formal complaint if a DM is treating you unfairly, or don't complain at all. Same goes for player vs player issues.

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BlackDahlya

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:36 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I don't think Met made this thread, since most of the messages are from another thread. I'd actually take this as a spiteful jab from someone whom decided to move a bunch of messages.

Technicalities. Swap "thread" for "trend" then, since it was his post that gave birth to this split thread.

Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:40 AM

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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

Sure, it's always easier to say that it's an annual complaint and toss it away, rather then looking at the issue and fixing the problem.

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BlackDahlya

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:47 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming

What issue?

As I said, it seems it's a series of isolated cases. If you (you in general) have a problem with someone, taking it directly to the person would be more efficient than starting a thread (or trend) with jabs at a few individuals within a whole group.

I am not saying we should ignore the problem.

On the contrary. I am saying to solve it, but do it efficiently: take it at the root by talking to the person, or persons, involved.

Jadeone

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:49 AM

Player

Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Location: Illinois

I left Amia roughly a week ago, something I've been thinking of doing for quite some time. A large part of why I left was a certain few on the DM team. Not all DM's fall under what Met is talking about. But there are 4-5 that do. I also left because of ooc crap and peoles inability to let things die and move on with life ic and out. A game should be fun and Amia, due to many things had no longer been that for me.

I'd also like to say that I had completely stopped posting on the forums because of a DM's attitude to one of my posts. Apparently they felt the title I gave it did not fit. I never claimed to be a great writer, yet got a ignorant remark about it. I even had another DM apologize for that original DM's post.

When I did bring a rude comment to someones attention, I was told, it was tacky but it was an opinion. Though I'm sure if I ran around saying people (censored) over and over, a DM'd have something rude to say to me. Even if it were just an opinion.

I'm not going to get into all my issues with the 4-5 DM's, the list is way too long. (though I do have some screenies). I was not having fun, so I moved on.

soundofastream

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:49 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Sep 2007

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Sure, it's always easier to say that it's an annual complaint and toss it away, rather then looking at the issue and fixing the problem.

Its a problem of one or two player's perceptions of certain DMs, not the DMs themselves (who, incidently, seem to be doing fine).

Some of the DMs have been quite rude in some of the threads on the forum, there's consensus there at least. But they're human and whilst that bit about them annoys me, its going to happen at some point. For the ones who do like to bite back, maybe they should take lessons of Yossarin who seems to be good at getting the point across without coming across as rude.

There again, if anyone's not guilty of it, raise your hand?

There, now, as a server, perhaps we could all learn lessons on being a little bit nicer to each other?

I still see little evidence of favouritism, not taking complaints seriously or any other myth floating around the playerbase as yet...

Just as an aside, I've seen far worse DMs on other servers. Some are outright bar stewards!

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Kendera

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:53 AM

Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2005

This post illustrates the very same point as my earlier rant, in this topic.

It's not the DM's directly.
It's their response to being buried underneath our whining.

AKA: It's us, not them.

Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:53 AM

Player

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

BlackDahlya wrote:

It's been done, and it doesn't work. Mostly because people don't like to admit that there is an issue, usually discussing something so stubbornly that there is no point in continuing it.

You also said that a thread was made with the issue, as Tormak quoted above, it wasn't, Disco moved the messages and made the thread, so it's not something that was brought into the public by Metalien or myself. The title is also insulting, the whole thread is insulting, the fact that it was even given it's own little lime light show's the Disco was being as petty as anyone else here. The conversation ended after Iron asked to continue the discussion in PM's, if they did, I don't know. I only voiced my opinion because metalien said he was the only one doing so, which he hasn't been over the last month.

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Neus Scario

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:57 AM

Player

Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky

Selvec Darkon wrote:

You also said that a thread was made with the issue, as Tormak quoted above, it wasn't, Disco moved the messages and made the thread, so it's not something that was brought into the public by Metalien or myself. The title is also insulting, the whole thread is insulting, the fact that it was even given it's own little lime light show's the Disco was being as petty as anyone else here. The conversation ended after Iron asked to continue the discussion in PM's, if they did, I don't know. I only voiced my opinion because metalien said he was the only one doing so, which he hasn't been over the last month.

Or he was being a good forum moderator by removing off-topic posts from an otherwise productive discussion, and instead of outright deleting them like he could have, he decided to branch off the discussion to its own topic.

How's that petty, again?

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Kendera

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 2:59 AM

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Joined: 04 Jan 2005

Selvec Darkon wrote:

The title is also insulting, the whole thread is insulting, the fact that it was even given it's own little lime light show's the Disco was being as petty as anyone else here.

^^^^^
....This is exactly what we need to stop doing.
I'm done reading this now. Seriously.

Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:00 AM

Player

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

Neus Scario wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Because the title in itself is making fun of the topic. It's insulting.

Kendera wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

The title is also insulting, the whole thread is insulting, the fact that it was even given it's own little lime light show's the Disco was being as petty as anyone else here.

^^^^^
....This is exactly what we need to stop doing.
I'm done reading this now. Seriously.

Excuse me, but people always say the DM's are human. Correct, they are. Saying that they make no mistakes, no problems is a farce. Blaming everyone but the DM's isn't right, nor is blaming only the DM. I haven't said every issue on Amia is the DM's fault, far from that, but the DM's do create some issues, and what I said is true. The title is insulting and poking fun at metalien and the complaint.

I also believe that as someone is human, that when they make mistakes they need those mistakes pointed out to them, otherwise they cannot correct the mistake or learn from it. That is also human.

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Last edited by Selvec Darkon on Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:12 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Magnum Opera

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:02 AM

Player

Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines

Neus Scario wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

i'd reply to this post with a 50 hitler post, if I didn't respect this forum.

Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:14 AM

Player

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

I have a dinner I need to get ready for, so if anyone wishes to continue this conversation or reply to my responses, either PM me, or expect a delayed response.

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I keels u with my axe!

"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"

Carter

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:17 AM

Player

Joined: 15 Aug 2005

I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, as it always does, but this thread hasn't turned out to be an exception.

Just as Selvec said in his latest post, the DMs aren't blameless, and neither are the players. The DMs who think the problems posted about them aren't real and that the problems Amia has are only from the playerbase are lying to themselves, as are the players who think it's a DM-only thing.

This doesn't go for the groups as a whole, exclusively, either, it goes for every single DM and every single player. There isn't a single player or DM on Amia who couldn't improve him or herself by actually taking the comments and suggestions of players into consideration, and most people, even when they do admit that both the DM team and the playerbase have problems, don't admit that they themselves contribute, when each one does, myself included.

So, before we get into this back-and-forth about who's to blame and who isn't, take a moment to consider that everyone is to blame, in one way or another, and that even when you are singled out by someone's post, that you can actually take that chance to improve, instead of getting upset about it. I don't think I need to comment on the irony of those responses to posts that are written in such a way that they prove the original poster's point.

BlackDahlya

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:20 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming

I am just saying that I take care of my messes.

Recently, whenever I had a disagreement with a player or a DM, I took it up to them and things were cleaned up.

I am not being blind to the problem. On the contrary.

My problems I have been trying to solve by talking directly to those involved.

Again, not saying that there is no problem. I am saying there is, but I am doing my part in trying to solve them through conversation.

soundofastream

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:23 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Sep 2007

Wow, Carter, somethings seriously wrong here, I found myself agreeing with you.

Umm, back to the main question, what exactly is it that our lovely DMs are doing wrong, beyond using harsh words on occassion on the forum?

I'm not getting a pin point on this..."problem" if there is one.

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Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

ainjyll

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:24 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

Yossarin wrote:

ainjyll wrote:

The only thing I've noticed that could possibly need improvement is that the DM team seems to have become too specialized. With specialization comes limitation.

Please elaborate, if you could. I think I know what you mean, but I do not want to assume.

Well, there have been several times that various DMs have told me something to the effect of "Oh, you're a drow. We have DMs that deal with drows. Contact one of them." That's paraphrased, but the context is what really matters here.

That says to me that the DM's have become too specialized. Maybe it's just a longing for the "good ole' days" or maybe I just expect too much, but it seems to me that all DMs should be able to go to any of the areas in the module and take over a NPC and appropriately RP that character.

This is not to say that all the DMs should be able to run big events in a section of lore that they don't really know much about. What I am saying is that they should be able to posses any NPC in the module, regardless of that NPC's affiliation for what could possibly be needed interaction between a PC or group of PC's and a NPC.

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Carter

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 3:31 AM

Player

Joined: 15 Aug 2005

soundofastream wrote:

Wow, Carter, somethings seriously wrong here, I found myself agreeing with you.

It tends to be individualized for each DM, like it is for each player. Obviously, since the DMs are, except for the rare exception, far more prominent than the players, it's easier to pick out flaws.

It's not really possible to pick out a single problem, as there isn't one. Perhaps, all-in-all, it's just that those problems tend to come to the forefront on occasion, and much like the what happens with players whose problems are pointed out, the problems aren't often dealt with, and even ignored, which causes the snowballing effect we see in threads like these. It's not that the DMs are any different from the players, problem wise, it's just that more players see them, and more players are affected by them.

Metalien

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 5:09 AM

Player

Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.

People are obviously select reading these posts as I see this same thing being said over and over again: "Metalien, if you're unhappy go through the right channels" so I'll repeat myself.. again.

Cpt_Metalien_XC wrote:

Unfortunately the 'channels' we're supposed to go through are the same people I've lost confidence in.

Now, this realy is my last post on this matter and I don't give a sh*t what is said about me or to me, I'm not even gonna bother checking it again as this is just running in circles and I've said my piece.

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Xaviera

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 5:21 AM

Player

Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love

There may be one DM who doesnt much care for me, but then I dont much care for that DM either. On the other hand, that same DM has also involved me in a few events that I both enjoyed and appreciated. I cannot say that I personally have ever been treated unfairly by the team. Whether or not others have is not appropriate for me to discuss.

In general, I have no serious objections to the DM team. Both they and the Devs do a lot of work for us and take a lot of crap from us, and without them this place would be far less than what it is. New quests eventually get old. DM events might help, but holding your breath waiting for the DMs to kick-start you is not being proactive. As has been said in this thread and others (and I paraphrase here): "If you want something done, do it yourself." In other words, take the initiative.

I can honestly say that if I am not having fun playing here, it's in large measure because I myself am not making the effort to do interesting things to involve and entertain other people.

EDIT: And my reply doesnt address Meta's concern in the slightest.

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The Cobbit

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 5:26 AM

Player

Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Location: Satellite Of Love

I'll simply say this:

There have always been problems, and there always will be. There's always been issues with players leaving, or having fights with other players or DMs, and that trend will likely continue in the future. It can't be avoided.

An argumentative or defeatist attitude does not help matters at all. If you walk into a situation already thinking that everyone else is against you, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you feel things are getting too serious, my best recommendation is to take some time off from the game and forums for a while, relax, and think if this is all really worth getting so upset over. Remember, it's just a game.

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O'Raghailligh

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 5:31 AM

Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ

Ive been playing on Amia since 4 Jan 09, and I must say it is awesome. Not only that but I feel it has actually gotten better during this short time.

Maybe its just me starting to figure out RP, or maybe its the players or the list of improvements and updates that seem to be taking place regularly, I dunno. But I do know Amia rocks!

Lesquille

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 5:45 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne

I agree, there are problems with the DM team. In particular, all the DMs who have never given me DCs!

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Selmak

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 5:58 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2004

Look on the bright side. None of the current DMs spam visual effects and piles upon piles of skeletons. So they must have some kind of self-restraint.

Jaydn

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 6:19 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: I'm around

Here's my take on the whole 'good players leaving', and it might have been said already, but to say it in a new way...

I knew pretty much all of the players who have left, and you say "If i see so-and-so online, i know amia's still not a bad place"

Here's a suggestion. Find someone who can take their place. I've learned from experience that good things don't last forever, and so you have fun while they're around, and when they go away, you can ALWAYS find something that could be even MORE fun.

These people, for example, Krin and Scarlet were always fun to RP with while i was online on Angel. Now that they're both gone, i don't look for them and try to RP with them, i look for others that i can grow a RP relationship with ICly and OOCly.

It's just a game, and sadly, it won't last forever. Lets all spend the time that we're using to find bad in it, and instead use it to find the good in it. There's always good stuff that a lot of people take for granted and don't notice as much as the bad stuff.

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Yurell

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 6:25 AM

Player

Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

I've found the DM team to be great.

'nuff said.

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BrainSplitter

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 6:44 AM

Player

Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia

YOU ALL SUCK! GO DIE IN A FIRE YOU PATHETIC MORTALS! YOU ARE ALL INFERIOR TO OUR SUPERIOR MASTERY OF THE DUNGEONS! INTO THE PITS OF UNDEFINED TERROR WITH YOU!

Jokes aside.

Best thing to deal with intrapersonal issues is to talk it out first of all. If you've got an issue with someone, try bringing it up with them calmly; sometimes you can really get far. Sometimes.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 7:27 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Selmak wrote:

Look on the bright side. None of the current DMs spam visual effects and piles upon piles of skeletons. So they must have some kind of self-restraint.

I only did that during the Rising... :oops:

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Grymia

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 7:29 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada

Back when I DM'd one of my events did require a heavy use of placeable visual effects but I wanted to try to create a visual representation of something that' been happening.

A lot of people complain about Dming interestingly enough (at times I'm tempted to but I mostly try to keep my mouth shut) .. Why would I shut my mouth?

Cause I know what it's like on the DM side of the coin. It ain't easy

Lesquille

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 7:46 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne

I've been hanging around Amia for a little bit, so I will say that things aren't all that different than they used to be.

I think it's more general fatigue of playing the same game for so long, on the same server, with the same characters, going to the same places and doing the same things. Any game is going to get boring eventually. Interacting with other players instead of just NPCs stretches it out longer, but people are going to leave eventually. And it's not like we've had a massive outflux of oldbie players.

Kjetta

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:13 AM

Player

Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place

Something to consider: on Amia, players are almost in 100% control of their characters. The rules are like that, in regards to PvP, Death, Torture, Captivity, Robbing etc. Almost without failure, the players completely control the fate of their own characters and factions.

This, I suspect, makes Amia an ideal place for those who want to play characters that are very close to themselves, or ideal versions of themselves. To me, it seems like a lot of players somehow are their characters. This is particularly evident when IC relationships end, as bruised OOC feelings surfaces.

However, when a DM steps into the scene, everything changes. Players lose power, and bad things can happen. This is quite purposefully done, the lack of control is meant to create suspense and excitement. However, quite often, this lack of control creates nothing but angst in some players, and we DMs get the feeling we are intruding, not on a bunch of adventurers in the Forgotten Realms, but on some strange MSN group with NWN characters for avatars.

I can't give any numbers or estimate, I can just say that I suspect some anti-DM notions are spurred on by this transportion of control from players to DMs. It doesn't happen often enough to make most players used to it, but it happens often enough that players get to hate us a little.

Also, I'd like to warn you about trusting your best friend(!). If he was caught blatantly exploiting some glitch and got stomped for it, he might just not tell you that and rather go: "It's über lame, I didn't do anything at all, and I got screens to prove it on my other comp. Kjetta just hates my guts ever since I beat his lame earth genasi char in pvp, lol."

Not saying it happens all the time or even often, but it does happen like that, too.

That said, I do acknowledge that we DMs can be rude. I certainly can. And I do genuinely apologize for that. I just get frustrated at times, I guess.

I don't think I am the worst though, but you should consider the fact that those DMs who are most likely to get hot-heated are probably the ones who are the most emotionally invested in Amia and are likely those who care the most about your wellfare on Amia, too. Me, for instance, I DM for myself. Prior to the Seafarer and Pit Fighter stuff, I had gotten no requests to make a an event for gladiators or sailors; in fact, I had received a request to do something for the elves. But I don't like elves particularly much, I like sailors and gladiators.

Hope that didn't come out as too obnoxius, I don't mean to just throw the blame back at you guys. I know we DMs can be an annoying bunch, but damnit, so can you!

Kjetta!

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soundofastream

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:38 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Sep 2007

Kjetta, I agree with nearly every bit of it. Oh and elves suck too! Just jokes, they don't really...hehe....

I don't want every event to go swimmingly smooth. I don't always want to win. Chance makes the game more fun. Odds against you (60% chance of failure, 40% chance of success) RP is even more fun. But, there's a lot of people who are overly precious about winning all the time I guess.

But I'll say this, just to let everyone know. Svirfneblin are the best!

Gnomes are going to take over the world!

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Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

Galenson

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 8:48 AM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

soundofastream wrote:

Oh and elves suck too!

What's there to joke about? Elves do suck. If I had my way, elves would be extinct and feys wouldn't even exist. Now because it's not my way I have to settle with the next best option: genocide... or atleast attempted genocide.

To the players who want to help me exterminate these pointy eared pests, try to behave with the DMs and other players. You're all more valuable then 3 elven lesbian characters which are shagging tieflings.

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ClockworkRed

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 9:01 AM

Player

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Nice city, good beer

I think people just tend to not being able to get over any bad interactions they had with a DMs. This might partly be because each player has only has rarely any DM interactions, so if one comes over badly, it kind of leaves a lasting impression.

Still, I am also always very surprised how fast you get all those rebuilds, name changes and so on done by the DMs, even though I can imagine that there is nothing more boring to do than such things. If I would be a DM I would only run quests to have fun and ignore all those calls for PC admin work on the DM channel.

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The Golden Gnome

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 9:16 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

soundofastream wrote:

Gnomes are going to take over the world!

They already have!

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Dev Disco

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 9:44 AM

HRM Chicken I of Amia

Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam

Kendera wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

The title is also insulting, the whole thread is insulting, the fact that it was even given it's own little lime light show's the Disco was being as petty as anyone else here.

^^^^^
....This is exactly what we need to stop doing.
I'm done reading this now. Seriously.

No, no... let him go on.

My ego can take a few hits, and there may be some good hints in it for me as well. So, tell me more.

I have been placed at the upper levels of DM arseholiness by Mahtan (when I asked him, mind you) so I guess there's quite a bit to comment on my way of posting. I personally don't think I don't do much wrong, except venting the occasional irritations when somebody doesn't get the "no, I am not going to make this for you, not even after you asked the same question for the 6th time in a row". It's all about perceptions, though, so tell me how you perceive me. Preferably with examples.

It's an open invitation, btw.

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Lesquille

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 10:22 AM

Player

Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne

*as Disco writes, his finger hovers over the ban button*

Nekhy

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 10:31 AM

Player

Oh, if you have an issue with me, Metalien, I am more than happy to discuss it on MSN. That you have an issue with the "right channels" was rather directly implied in some comment above.

I stand by my decisions and actions, and will happily elaborate on them, if you are interested in hearing and perhaps correcting your own misconceptions about them.

mairacle_ninja

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 10:35 AM

Player

Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Location: Australia

Just my quick view on this; Don't turn it into 'us' versues 'them'. People are acting as if the DMs and the Players are two opposing armies, and that's what we're going to turn into if this keeps up. As someone suggested, take a break from Amia and the forums. Relax. And calm down before you turn into the assholes you're fighting against. Go do something else, play another game, write a story.

Do something away from the people you're angry with.

And come back with a different perspective. Whenever I'm pissy with someone, I avoid them and say to myself, 'What the hell is being angry at anyone going to achieve?' Reading angry and upset posts makes other people angry and miserable. I can honestly say my respect for some players has dropped and gone up reading some posts in this threat.

I'll admit I consider one or two DMs to be a little harsh and too blunt, but that's just them. That's people for you, different personalities, all clashing together with their varying opinions, views and principals. Would Amia, the server, be as good without the good guys and the bad guys clashing and fighting, without law and chaos duking it out? No, not really. Forums, and life in general, is the same. People aren't going to get along like happyhappyfairyland. The best you can do with someone you loathe is to just work your way around them. Do the mature thing and that.

You shouldn't let a few bad experiences kill your experience on this server. I honestly don't want this to turn into a shcism and see more people leave. It breaks my heart to see veteran players go, even if I didn't even know them. But that's not the point, we're not here to judge who's old and new, who's a good RPer and who couldn't storyline their way out of a dark alley.

So in summary, go away, chill, come back.

Also, Disco? I think you can be a little blunt at times, but not snarky. You've got a decent sense of a humour and you know when you need to leave something be or break the tension. Considering your position, I'm surprised you're not a Jack Galenson smoothie, mixed with some extra lemon and acid. I don't have any examples of any of this, but I shouldn't need examples to stroke your ego. Just go with my advice to everyone else and make sure you're chilled, relaxed and thinking straight when you post, PM, MSN, tell or assasinate.

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soundofastream

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 11:15 AM

Player

Joined: 21 Sep 2007

Galenson wrote:

soundofastream wrote:

Oh and elves suck too!

That's it Galenson! I'm sending all my lesbian elven army against your Orcs who shag sheep and little boys and I'm going to pluck out your god's other eye with my pointy ear! so nerr!

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Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

Dev Disco

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 11:48 AM

HRM Chicken I of Amia

Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam

Lesquille wrote:

*as Disco writes, his finger hovers over the ban button*

Nah, bans and me don't usually agree very well. I am genuinely interested in comments on myself, the negative ones above all.

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Amarice-Elaraliel

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 12:01 PM

DM

Joined: 20 Jan 2006

Mhm... I considered posting something for a long while and beside me knowing better... I do it anyways

So... th Amian DM... first of all... don't generalize this overly much. Amia has plenty DM and all of them are different, as the players all are different.

Do some DM occasionally do stuff that we consider unfair and not right? I dare say they certainly do, they are just people aswell, y'know.

Is that really bad? It is not really nice occasionally for sure and I understand someone might feel judged wrong. But then.. respond to -that- directly.

The DM team has to deal with a lot of stuff.. and not all we see here on the forums. They made a nasty comment? Well, consider they might just have had 50 silly spam questions already or people doing nonsense.

Not saying such a response is nice but then answer immediately and say that you consider this was unfair.

Also... people can have a bad day... a DM can have a bad day too. We all here for sure gave some not-so-nice responses in the past aswell.

I did edge with some DM in the past too, also some of course was my own fault. The difference is I settled it back then and did not grumble to myself and then wait until one day I am so annoyed that I quit.

Did I consdider leaving before? Yeah... plenty of times and for various reasons. Obviously I didn't. Mainly because with all the things that are annoying, there still are so many things that are great.

If I feel the dire need to be in a plot and no DM is running one currently? I gather some players and do one myself. Honestly the DM have a -lot- to do behind the scenes. It is awsome when they run plots but it is not their duty to keep us entertained 24/7. Players can be creative too!

And that a large plot (especially one players came up with) involves big changes to the server and/or other players, must of course be considered carefully by the DM staff and will take a while to decide is rather obvious.

There will always be some issues and trouble.. honestly when there are so many different people together, how could there not be?

We're all just people and be honest... most people don't even manage not to have disagreements in a small group.

Also the DM have a rather tough position too... they need to slap a lot of people's fingers. I didn't always appreciate my mum lecturing me either

So... did my post add anything useful to this thread? Nay sure but I just wanted to say it.

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Dwagin

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 12:56 PM

Player

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod

Dev Disco wrote:

Lesquille wrote:

*as Disco writes, his finger hovers over the ban button*

Nah, bans and me don't usually agree very well. I am genuinely interested in comments on myself, the negative ones above all.

Well since you asked,

I take you as a cheeky chicken, and get many laughs from your posts. I can count the times when it hasn't been specifically development/bug related that I can recall you being 100% serious. I fairly well just assume most things you say are going to have some amusing twist to it. That is just how I look at you though. No insult intended of course. I happen to find people who don't take themselves too seriously as some of the best people to be around, and from some of the pictures I've seen, I'm sure you safely fall in that category.

I'm reminded of a quote by what I've read so far in this thread.

Voltaire wrote:

Weakness on both sides is, as we know, the motto of all quarrels.

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Dev Disco

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 13:00 PM

HRM Chicken I of Amia

Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam

That's not negative. Come on, folks, you can do better. Vent off that anger, give in to your dark side and all that crappy Star Wars poop.

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Yurell

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 13:11 PM

Player

Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Dev Disco wrote:

That's not negative. Come on, folks, you can do better. Vent off that anger, give in to your dark side and all that crappy Star Wars poop.

Well, once it took you a whole TEN MINUTES to respond to my PMed questions.

I have absolutely n problems with you ... fast, friendly, quick to humour.

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يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

The Cobbit

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 13:23 PM

Player

Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Location: Satellite Of Love

Dev Disco wrote:

That's not negative. Come on, folks, you can do better. Vent off that anger, give in to your dark side and all that crappy Star Wars poop.

Quite frankly, sir... I prefer turkey.

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Dakotaen

Posted: Fri, Mar 06 2009, 13:25 PM

Player

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark

I really tried to read through this entire thing, but with constantly fudged interwebz, that'll be going down for at least a full day soon (yay), I gave up after reading part of the second page, with the outlook of waiting a while for page three to pop up ahead of me.

Anywho, to the case at hand. I'll web together a few points, or attempt to, aimed at what I've read in the thread so far.

Roleplay quality falling: In my mind, the quality has gone down steadily, but not to the extreme point that makes me want to leave. As many others I was sad to check the forum the past time, to witness several of my favorite fellow players leave. Letum, Waka (who, admittedly, I've not always liked much), Krin and so on, were all players that I've had great respect for. For different reasons, sure, but they made it fun for me to log on, even if I only had a moment's time to watch them RP, or to RP with them.
Having said that, however, Amia still has a series of great players, and I'd like to urge people to remember that. It's not as if the loss of, granted quite a few players, will forever ruin the experience that Amia is, or can be if you want it to. There's still a bunch of people left that I look up to, when it comes to RP quality and ability, and as long as I don't consider myself the best, I'll consider the best worth playing Amia to play with.

Addendum; it occured to me while writing this that I used to almost fear playing with a DM's character. I was always sure that they'd all be godlike in ability, and while I certainly can't complain about the quality of any of them, I've come to realize that they're not neccessarily better than most others I've played with. Finding that out has made it a lot easier to play on Amia, for me at least, as it has made me feel more of an equal to them (note: not in quality per se, but in the manner that they're people I can talk to without having some godfearing side of myself pop out).

DM behaviour: I've never really had major trouble with the team. I've had my hand slapped two times, I think, the first time they suspeceted myself and another of twinking a low level character, but after explaining that we were merely using the character (who was played by a third person, of course) as a delivery person in our shady business, the problem was solved quietly. While we did lose the.. What was it, half a million I think? Doesn't matter. I found it fair enough. The other time I followed a lowbie around because my character, Dribo at the time, had an interest in her sneaking and fighting skills. Got another handslap for that, as she was out killing stuff, and I could've raised her if she died. Would've, too, since I didn't realize I was breaking any rules.
My point here isn't that I like to talk about myself and what I've done in the past ( :wink:

), but that I've never had any issues with the team myself. There was a time at which I hated one certain DM with a passion, for driving a friend away from the server, but in time I found that it wasn't really worth it, especially when the guy/gal turned out to be fairly decent, if a bit an ass on the forum at times.
What I think is needed from the DM team, but I'm also aware isn't too likely to happen, is more leaniency on the matter of changing the world. I'm aware that it could turn into daily requests of burning Tarkuul/Winya/Ultrinnan/etc to the ground, but in my honest oppinion, the team should be able to say "Fuck no" to all of these, and merely allow some of the less drastic changes every now and then. Yes, I know what happened in Nes'ek, but apart from that, I can't remember anything like it happening since the whole Banite/Wharftown thing, and the later building of Selune's temple.

End all: Yossarin has soft skin in his palms.

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