Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
Koragi Mydnite wrote:
I read the whole thing from start to finish, and I can agree. But as one of the people who has a firm hatred for grinding...
I too read the whole thing, but couldn't be bothered with reading most people's replies (I'm sorry). I hate grinding, just like Koragi.
But you (Sokar) are comparing this with a game of D&D - in a game of D&D yes it is about adventuring and becoming a hero, but it is also about you. The game is centred around these heroes, and everything relies on them, whereas in Amia there are hundreds of people who each have their own point of view - a lo of people don't want to hunt because it is mechanically boring. Have a pleasant chat ... as you are massacring your way through a bunch of giants? If you're into RP there wouldn't be much talking at all in a fight.
And sure, you could get to lvl 30ina week. I'm not sure how I could manage 2 levels and hour, but I'm sure someone else could, and good on them - they can get to level 30. However, while you're comparing this to real D&D, why don't we have a look at real D&D xp ... about ten times what we get on Amia.
If I wanted a hardcore RP server, I'd find one. I like Amia because it is relaxed, and not up itself. There are a lot of great RPers that don't hunt at al.
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
ticket wrote:
More quests!
The last time that was brought up, I think Disco pulled out statistics on the quests that are available and how many people have actually completed them. Suffice to say, the numbers of the new quests that are completed aren't very impressive, despite being quite interesting.
Have you completed the Lumorier Quests? What about the ones in Khem?
It's not to say that there can't be more quests, but that the ones that are available are rather nice; and unfortunately unused.
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While I only read the top portion of this post, I have to say that this server needs more people like you.
More people that sit on the forums composing books to complain instead of creating RP, people that bitch about the XP being too high, too low, too hard, too easy, too many DCs, not enough DCs, I didn't get them, you only give them to friend,s the magic levels is too high, too low, I can't reach the shops, there's too many events, there's not enough there's too many DMs, too few DMs, not enough DMs that pay attention to me.
Yes. Of course. We desperately need more oft hose people.
Sorry if my words were misconstrued, I was referring to what I had read in the beginning of his post about people RPing to the setting of D&D and such.
I think there's room for some more repeatable quests (as in, they'll be available once a reset or so). Simple tasks with simple rewards, like healing kits and potions.
It's an excuse to go somewhere else, maybe with some adventuring friends, and then come back. And maybe along the way they'll find another NPC that has a quest (not necessarily of the repeatable variety), and hopefully you can see where that leads.
Maybe it's the one-shot-ness of quests that puts people off doing them, or maybe they just don't take the time to go looking for them. By having repeating quests you increase a player's exposure to areas that they might never have bothered visiting. You reward questing with..... more questing. Someone should go build a franchise on this.
Maybe it's the one-shot-ness of quests that puts people off doing them
Imo it's more the XP/time ratio for quests which is not so great.
Some quests are OK for this, but others just don't reward enough compared to regular hunting. And I'd say it is not a secret that a lot of people go for lvl30 and then just epic loot or "standing-in-cordor"-RP. Not adventuring, certainly not doing the quests.
Most quests are around 2k worth, which is ~50 kills with normal hunting.
The quests take a long time,... a lot longer then 10 spawns anyways, which banks you the same XP.
This creates an environment in which only quests are completed if you need the area anyway (or if it is a good enough XP compared to the "standard" huntin ground for your level)
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It's not to say that there can't be more quests, but that the ones that are available are rather nice; and unfortunately unused.
Aye, but maybe not so unfortunate. It's nice having an open ended module where there's NO linear progression of quests PCs must do, where we are free to weave our own stories and pick which quests suits our PC's stories. My drow for example only has two quests completed, the lowbie delivery quest and the Riddle me this quest. She doesn't give a *beep* about surfacers and their problems.
I bet it's hard on the devs too to see that some of their work are being underused. And I'm the first to admit I don't do all quests and some quests I bet I don't do ever at all or even know it exists. The excuse would usually revolve around that it's already too easy by the time I even visit the place and the culture of level 30 then RP wherein the only quests that matter are: Speedy, kobold, orc, minotaur, and golem plans.
But I firmly believe that if we are conditioned to having 4-7 quests per town/area of interest & with a multitude of gender, race, class, alignment, and faction specific quests, it would make the server a much better place to explore and have adventure.
I am not discounting the work on new areas and features the devs are making - I love all the ever expanding world of Amia - but I always thought that we have a very very good module already in terms of areas, places to explore, and things to do. I just think it's time to start going back to basics and revisiting areas and improving them (real grunt work), making npcs more interesting and interactive, more quests and polishing old ones, balancing monsters and xp, etc.
More depth and polish. Really delve into the details and lore. And give characters reason to go to low traffic areas other than to grind, give them adventures. The gobbos, mephits, beetles, bug bears, Ankh's tomb, electric castle, Endir's point's dwarven halls, taverns, bath houses, cordor graveyard, etc.
Oh and all epic areas, they are just there for grinding and farming, there's no NPC imperative/quest to kill yuan-ti, giants, mind flayers, sahuagins, vampires, ten'naris, & beholders. So the experience is always the same, the same old feeling of grinding. I know that players can come up with their own IC goals/quests too... but all I'm saying that it would be better being rewarded _appropriately_ and it being "real" - in the sense that it is in the module, and your party members can see Tristana asking you to investigate the rat cult in Cordor.
It demands huge work but luckily Amia is the busiest nwn server with a big player base. I say start tapping into that player base, open source some of the work load. =p
Last edited by ticket on Sat, Feb 28 2009, 3:59 AM, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
ticket wrote:
[open source some of the work load
If you wish to submit material, scripts, or Ideas to Disco, it's up to him whether he wants to accept them. But there are some things that should not ever be "Open Source".
_________________ Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I've played a more action-oriented server - in fact it was my first foray in to multiplayer nwn. You'd fight trolls for around 5-8 levels, starting with 500 xp per troll, and leaving when it got down to around 150-200 xp per troll.
Coming to amia was a shocker, and even still can be, as I struggle to earn between 20 and 70 xp, dependant on the spawn and what group I might happen to find.
I do agree, I VERY frequently end up unable to group with the same people, because I simply cannot log in daily ,and invest 4+ hours every day. Particularly not when I spend a lot of time doing design for amia.
It sucks a lot. And while lower xp gain, would likely mean I *could* stay grouping with the same people for longer, I'd still end up out of range in fairly short order.
What I find is, and always has been, the single biggest detractor to rp during...."hunting"....(hate that word), is buffs. Yes, buffs. They are the single biggest cause of reduced rp during adventuring, because they are frequently quit essential - it's patently absurd to suggest anyone go without them, even if it's just self-administered buffs like potions/scrolls. And buffs expire, fairly quickly. So people tend to rush, especially at lower levels when you have no gold, and that potion you were able to finally buy, really needs to go the distance for you. Or you have very few buffs that last a very short duration, and if they wear out, you risk imminent death, because you can't rest for another 10 minutes.
Quite honestly, I think if buff durations were increased, there'd be two effects. The non-rp'ers would have a blast and continue rushing, just for longer in between rests. And the people who'd like to rp a bit more, but are torn between rushing, and risking imminent expensive death because buffs wear off so fast, to rp more, well, there's more chance they'd stop worrying about imminent death, because it wouldn't BE so imminent.
'Course, I know no change to durations will be made. Just saying that more than any otehr change that *could* be made, I think that's the one that actually WOULD affect rp more. 'cause I know that as a cleric, it takes me soooo long to buff people up, that I want to avoid the need to do so again too soon as much as possible. I still try to get a *little* rp in.....but I know i don't rp as much as I would otherwise, and perhaps would like, because I know that if we do, those buffs are gonna fade, and I'll have to spend time casting them all again.
Then again, not *needing* buffs so desperately, to actually hunt anything without almost guaranteed death, that'd make a big difference too. But remove the need to buff (aka, make monsters a bit easier), and the powergamer crowd that has the need to rush to 30 fast as possible, would just farm more, because it'd be so much easier for them now. Mind, I'd leave bosses as nice uber things needing every buff you can get your hands on. It's just a pain in the arse when every single spawn even remotely near the level you should be hunting, is quite deadly without buffs.
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For the kind of personal more indept then just hunting or hanging around chatting RP most people are looking for, most think a DM is needed. It is at this point I'd like to draw your attention to the following website (one of many of these infact) www.worldbroadcastingsystem.net
This is a story telling RP site, or however you want to call that genre. I've been playing on sites that this for say eight years and I've never seen a DM there, heck they don't even use a dice system or have anything more then text fields to work with. Yet they are able to RP every possibly situation just by getting together and interacting with anyone and everything that comes along.
RP is often what you make of it. The quiet hunt can be brought to life just by simply thinking "What would I do in this situation?" and do it. I doubt when you meet your friends in RL that you're just going to stare at eachother for hours.
You all might want to try this site just for the heck of it, because you're so utterly reliable on everyone else there you'll soon notice what isn't a good idea to type pages about and what is.
Just yesterday I had a nice bar fight on amia, no DM, no dice just some good imaginetive roleplay. So what that I didn't get dream coins, or xp or loot. The other players there at teh time reacted to it, so what if they had planned to talk about other things. When dwarves start throwing furniture around, think to yourself "what would i do?" and choose the logical thing, which is always interaction, the degree of it being up to you.
There are no "problems" only "wonderful obstacles which have yet to be solved, but are going to, and in a delightful way at that". If you don't feel your character has a real reason to go and kill those giants, make one up, get people involved. If you are tired of a certain area, explore new areas or ask a DM for an event. Want to team up with an IC friend, but he's too high/low? Who gives a crap about xp when you're having fun, right? Perhaps the epic is training the non-epic for some reason?
And if you hate grinding, just stop grinding. It doesn't have to be like that. You can make "hunting/salvaging/exploring/scouting/mapping/stealing/pillaging/foraging/terrorising/excercising/training" meaningful through your rp. If you don't hunt in the hardest places, there is -plenty- of time to have a conversation while travelling. Just look at Sam and Frodo.
I have spent almost the last half hour with a cup of tea in my hands reading through the mass of replies and counter arguements and have come to one simple conclusion.
Sit back relax, find a good group of friends, stick with them, rp with them, dont complain about what others are doing. Just concentrate on making a better enviroment yourself.
You'll find that in doing this other players gravitate towards you as they respect your playing style. But even if they dont it doesnt mean that you are wrong, just sometimes that it can take a while.
It's just a pain in the arse when every single spawn even remotely near the level you should be hunting, is quite deadly without buffs.
They used to be called Challenging for a reason? Though most people actually tend to gun for what used to be the 'Very Difficult' ones. Which to my mind makes me think that there should be a certain element of risk.
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I think you had the best intentions when writing that post, Sokar. I think you were truly fed up and needed to express exactly how fed up you were.
What you have to realize with this kind of thing is the same thing world leaders and priests and shamans and girlscout leaders have been dealing with for centuries.
No matter what your experience is with group activity, every single person in said group is going to have a different experience.
What you need to do is go about your experience in your own way in lieu of letting those who you genuinely think would have a better time if they did things how you think they should be done, get to you.
It took me two years to level my main. Mostly because parties intimidated me in the beginning, because I had no idea what I was doing. When I finally got into the swing of things and became comfortable, I started leveling. Sometimes I enjoy running around my own mindlessly, sometimes I enjoy standing around Cordor.
In my experience here, I have had constant, daily, fun roleplay. Whether i'm standing in cordor discussing the latest pregnancy, sitting in the forest watching hins chase necromancers, or bumping into people on the road.
When you decide to have a good time, odds are you will. The key to that good time usually begins with the knowledge that not everyone thinks like you. Makes it all the more exciting
La
_________________ We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
When, I believe it was Tormak, was running that Ne'sek event, you had people camped out near the edge of the desert for weeks, and there was always people there. Most of the time, folk simply RP'd, and occasionally there was a fight, either due to the DM spawning in something or the scripts doing so, but it was great, because it was fighting for a purpose, and also fighting that had an element of unpredictability in it. Mostly it was the same group of regulars there, and you had a chance to develop relationships with other PCs. What I was suggesting, with one of my ideas anyway, is to set up long-term events like that, but script it so that by being there you earn some gold and/or XP either over time or for performing certain tasks for the cause, which could be granted by an NPC commander or some such. It doesn't even need to replace mindless grinding, but it'd be a nice alternative I think.
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I think you had the best intentions when writing that post, Sokar. I think you were truly fed up and needed to express exactly how fed up you were.
What you have to realize with this kind of thing is the same thing world leaders and priests and shamans and girlscout leaders have been dealing with for centuries.
No matter what your experience is with group activity, every single person in said group is going to have a different experience.
What you need to do is go about your experience in your own way in lieu of letting those who you genuinely think would have a better time if they did things how you think they should be done, get to you.
It took me two years to level my main. Mostly because parties intimidated me in the beginning, because I had no idea what I was doing. When I finally got into the swing of things and became comfortable, I started leveling. Sometimes I enjoy running around my own mindlessly, sometimes I enjoy standing around Cordor.
In my experience here, I have had constant, daily, fun roleplay. Whether i'm standing in cordor discussing the latest pregnancy, sitting in the forest watching hins chase necromancers, or bumping into people on the road.
When you decide to have a good time, odds are you will. The key to that good time usually begins with the knowledge that not everyone thinks like you. Makes it all the more exciting
La
"Herding cats", isn't that the summary of your (excellent) post?
Sokar, you have successfully pointed out areas where Amia could improve, and this is one of those rare instances where you are not alone in your thinking. And you, from what I read of the OP, never did the lame thing and invoked the "many players agree with me or feel the same way" argument as some of our forum users do. You know who you are.
Question, though: can you come up with alternative solutions to the problems that involve zero scripting and dev work?
Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Location: Where the She-Devils roam
Whew. Okay, so I read the entire topic, and I have to say I'm with the group of "It's what you make it."
Everyone is free to RP their own way, within reason, and if that means doing drama RP in Cordor, or idle chit-chat with strangers, or combat/training/hunting RP, or whatever, then that's great. I think all of adds to the flavor, whether directly or abstractly. A lot of the time, even if I don't RP with characters because their RP is not my cup of tea, I'll RP with others about them. Usually, it's making fun of people who think they're 25% this and 25% that, or ones who have a zillion lovers, and gravitate around they're own drama. ICly, most of my characters think they're messed up in the head, tell the people that, and then go laugh about it with her friends.
It varies between instances, of course, but that's part of the spontanity of RPing. Or at least it is in my mind.
I RP about something whenever I can, because I'm hoping it's a little enriching to the experience, or making it entertaining for someone else, especially when we're doing something monotonous, like hunting, or when my Guard PC is on duty in the square. I guess that means it's what you make of it. I'm not afraid to poke fun at something ICly, and then point out how absurd the thing is to my PC, and I consider that apart of the RP. My character can make fun of you for making friends with a bunch of strangers and going off the rely on them to watch your back, and she can make fun of you for thinking you're a quarter this, and a quarter that. The fun thing is, it can be vocal or it could be behind your back.
I like the idea of a network of RP, with a little oppposition between what you know, and what you don't. You may never know that my PC who seems to be your best friend is selling you out, or that my PC who hates yours secretly admires their tenacity and will.
Things like that, that are developed from when you make your character and then on, dissolve the feeling of going through the motions, in my opinion and in my experience. Sometimes, it lends to a deeper level of RP where my character changes and develops.
This is all purely my opinion, and I hope it's valid with the current topic.
I'm not Sokar, but perhaps agreeing with a group of people to create your characters at the same time and trying to keep the same rate of advancement.
There will be a chance to do this with a lot of people in a few days. Keep your eyes open on the PC notice boards.
Personally I think it's better if you -dont- agree before hand, and it just happens. It will be rare, I assure you, but it's amazing when it does.
When I made Jack Tesilent, I had no idea what he would ever become. I made him -after- I created him, and it's great. But back to what Im quoting. I met another player on my first run through Kobolds, with the party ball too. They stuck together the closest out of the group of 5, because Jack was the only one who could stand the character. Bam, first "life-long" friendship.
The second was created by chance, the Wizard from Kobolds and Jack taking a stroll through the sewers. They run into an elf and a hin, Jack and the elf become friends and the wizard and the hin become friends. The -characters- clicked so well that none of those characters ever went out of range of each other, just because they were amazing with each other. Jack is still level 19, and I made him back in feb of last year. The elf is 17, and the wizard is 20. Of course we all hunted seperately when we wanted to, but never enough to seperate.
If you find people who go well with your character, and they -as players- decide to ditch you, then they aren't worth your time. 20 of my only 24 DC's are from Jack, and 16 are from being with the elf and the wizard. When characters form a great connection IC, the players are likely to make one OOC. The IC connection can be rivalry or companionship, it doesn't matter. The players of those two characters are my favourite on Amia, because we had our own little acceptance.
You shouldnt go through OOC methods to find a group to be with, because it makes it less personal. Most of them have requirements, like ones I've seen lately. "Needs archer and a rogue. Fighter and a wizard" etc. Even if it doesn't really, and its just people signing up for something to do on a new character, I don't believe it will ever just -feel- right.
On a side note, I apologize for derailing this, and for rambling during it. >_>
I always used to go out on adventures with Semli. Or, exhibitions, as they were called.
Really. It becomes what you make of it.
As far as, seeing a common indication of people "hunting" for XP OOC, and not turning it into an IC adventure while doing so, there might be a few reasons as to why that is.
1. Time.
Kill faster, get xp faster, get gp faster, become more "powerful" faster.
2. Easy gold... uh... easy gold
When you look at the IC reasons for a character to go on an adventure, they can actually be quite varied. But, the most common reason a character would do it, is to gain any of these three (or all); Glory, Fame and Fortune.
A paladin would always seek to kill evil abominations or undead. A druid would always seek to rid those who endanger the forest. Those are the ambitions of ideals and morals. A lot of characters have those, who set the characters themself on a path, yet the majority seem to have decided against implementing that.
Fame, is quite simple. "I once slayed Windreaper with nothing but one devastating blow, cleaving his majestic head into two!"... or "We went into the dungeon, and even though several of us fell in the battle, we finally managed to defeat the notorious Kraven."
Fame and glory are often intertwined, but not always. There was a time when the entire server hunted Darthion. That was for fame and glory.
The biggest motivator, as I see it, is... the money. The fat dough. The jewerly and gems. Diamonds and artifacts. The pile of treasure lying beneath the guarding dragon. The ring attached to the leader of the beastmen. The hidden cave, with a tomb, holding the thousand year old sword of an ancient king.
Those things, are what most adventures seem to come down to.
On Amia... we're all millionares. Artifacts are given through farming one "tough" NPC over and over.
The way I see it, the most prominent reason why adventures don't happen as they normally would have, is a 5% chance of loot and pockets stacked with gp.
I wouldn't say that there is a zero dev time, zero scripting solution that provides most of what is being asked for in the original post.
However, I think that if that is the ideal that you should be striving for, there might be some minimal-effort solutions that will help you do that.
For example: taglines. Sum up your character in one sentence. The beauty of it is, if they're chosen correctly, these things will stick in people's minds and help avoid the constant re-introductions, or prompt other members of your party to do the honours if they know your character well enough. Since they're so short, it isn't much of a problem to get a scribe to edit it, and it's not much of a problem to have some kind of tagline tool which lets you see what everyone has picked so you can remind yourself, or to just see it from the Rest menu.
I had a few other ideas but they were basically variations on the same idea - ways of making your character known, either for the company they keep or the deeds they've done, or both.
And you know, adventurers should be (in)famous, regardless of whether the whole island is swarming with them. Perhaps it's verging a bit on reverse metagaming for your character to be so widely known, but it sure beats being alone and unwanted.
Edit: The problem is not so much making a name T, it's keeping that circulating when you've done something that's worthy of some recognition but some time has passed since then. ICly your character should be remembered but in actuality as the original poster has pointed out, they get 'forgotten' because there are no regularly-updated history books to chronicle these things. All we're looking at here is something to briefly remind people of who the character is. Is that not worth any time to look at?
Last edited by Selmak on Sat, Feb 28 2009, 22:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Location: Some planet known as Earth
Surprisingly I have not 'too' much say (on the direct issue), it's been said already and I really loved how deeply thought out the issue was, it does point to an issue that yes there could be more variety the same thing over and over gets both boring and hurts the fantasy environment.
As for linking XP rates to RP, it simply increases the chance that people you hunt with will still be in your level range if you miss a day of hunting, which the more you hunt with the same people the more you learn about them and their characters' backgrounds.
The negative side effect is the fairness to new players when almost everyone else already has epic level character(s). So I think variety is the best plausible solution, unless everyone is up for a vault wipe, lol.
for variety:
As in quests, perhaps some class based, perhaps some involving other hunting areas that offer the same sort of xp,as previously stated.
Amia B really helps with this, it adds more choices for people to hunt in than the same ole area with the same ole boss at the end, and allows them to experience something diffrent while getting the same xp/loot reward for their time spent.
Quests not being used? I agree make them match the time invested in monster farming, if the quests are more useful by granting more xp for time spent on them, then they will be used more. It's like the speedy delivery...how much time is it going to take to level up hunting the goblins and kobolds compared to delivering the packages and letters? Much faster, less risk, bigger reward for time spent = lots of people do it.
Kjetta's idea for random monster spawns, love it. It adds the variety that we're looking for which also adds to rp. If people see something new odds are they will roleplay something about it. "Did you see 'that'?"
Disco's system for jobs are also in a way a huge addition of quests for people to do, they grant rewards including xp and the variety of jobs really helps alot.
As for those who saw this thread and decided to just smash it, not read the first post yet reply how they utterly disagreed to something they didn't bother reading in the first place... I feel sorry for you and hope one day you will discover that people, even if they are complaining about something, can teach you something and you can learn from both well constructed ideas and complaints alike. (odds are the people this is directed at aren't bothering to read this either but *shrugs*)
Those who did read it over and actually gave it a chance I applaud you but Nehky had a point the attention span issue was a huge factor, if you didn't read or reply then that's fine and the above is not directed at you at all.
Personally I have read every word in this topic. The first post was especially enlightening, I say a job well done, and yes we need more people who can write a fully well constructed argument in the forums. Instead of just short snippets expressing a narrow viewpoint that does not explain or say 'Why' they feel that way. Those sorts of posts usually end up as flame bait material.
True the first post can be shortened, and so can this ...but thanks for reading anyway. I purposely make things longer and explained because I usually try to answer all the many 'Why's' that might come up, as was done extensively in the first post.
Why do people look at the XP gained per kill? Why do you want to rush to level 30? I was shocked the first time I got 50+ XP per kill because I'd not bothered to look at the counter since level 3.
I spend most of my time 'hunting' (though I think 'playing an online RPG/D&D game is a better term') trying to type comments that my character would be likely to make and asking questions of my fellow adventurers. RP while out chopping monster heads is easy and contagious. You start doing it and nine times out of ten the people with you will do the same.
And as far as the rush to 30 goes, why do it? You miss out on meeting people in the different areas of Amia and when you get to 30 an inherit haughtiness appears as you know you are 'better' then most other characters. If you spend more time with your character at different levels you will like RPing then far more.
Granted there is always another useful or just plain cool thing that can be added to the server but to be honest I still think the best thing most of us have the capacity to add is our own ideas and actions communicated through our character. As far as other bad RP goes; if you can't beat it, keep trying to. If they pester OOC or with tells respond to everything in character. If they screenshot and cry they look like a tool(unless you were wrong, then say sorry).
As a side note; bugger off with all the percentage points and number crunching. Stop doing it and you will have more fun. My character is poor, they have been around for a long time and they are still quite poor. If you feel you have too much money then throw some of it away
Without reading the millions of other people's threads, I got the gist of it and got the gist of what they're saying.
What I found on various servers is, they have a type of "server culture". It ranges from servers like "city of Arabel" where you'd be lucky to get past level 7 because the XP penalties for dying are humongous and you level by completing quests. The RP there tends to be very hard core. I didn't like it because of one simple thing, I want to get to level 30.
So Arelith is one of those "food eating" servers where it IS as close to D&D you can get. You walk everywhere, you can buy a house, Myon IS full of Toril style elves, Drow are attacked on the surface, etc...Its one of the best servers but the tone of the DMs there tends to frown so much on Power of anytype that you don't dare make a powerful build there. It takes, around 4 months of hard slog to get to level 30 there if you're lucky. THE best part about it is, people "RP" whilst "hunting".
Amia gives you, as a player, nearly all the creative freedom you could want for creating your PC. Its got so many nice things about it, I really enjoy it here. But it also attracts the RP light players who treat it more like WoW. Amia is a mixture of Powergamers and RP'ers. But I shouldn't really say mixture because, its actually two groups of players who very rarely cross over fully. I've always said, if we took the Culture of RP from Arelith and the freedom of expression you get from Amia (yes, I can play a snow elf here or I can even build a powerful build here) and actually combined them, we'd have THE best ever server in all history.
I think Aertheca sort of got close at one stage to this very Utopia, but sadly, they booted out the old admins and DMs and what we've got left is a shadow of its former self. There you could literally level to level 40 in as little as a week, but after the levelling areas, everything thereafter was built for level 40s to adventure in and it WAS tough. People adventured and RP'ed at the same time. The joy of adventuring was surviving the challenge of not being wiped out.
Empires of Eternity had beautiful RP but was far too restrictive on creative character freedom. it seems the Hardcore RP servers end up with Tyrannical DMs/Admins and other servers like Storm Nexus, end up with WoW type players and little quality RP.
Anyway, after playing on several NWN servers I have not yet found one that gets the idea of mixing creative freedom (DM teams who aren't heavy handed) with heavy RP on adventures yet. The first server to actually create that mix, along with all the nice mechanical Mod Cons, will get my tick in the box for Utopian PW.
Could Amia ever become this Utopian PW? It could but it'd require quite a culture change. How we got that culture change is what I'm not yet sure on.
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
Joined: 18 May 2005 Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
Being the # 1 populated NWN server in the world, your going to get a mixed bowl of nuts.
Just pick out the ones you don't want, munch on the good ones.
Regards,
_________________ "Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
TormakSaber wrote:
People don't do the quests we have now. Why should we script "dailies"?
Agreed. I'll admit that I'm guilty of not doing most of the quests. Personally, I rather have RP with a PC or a DM controlled NPC. I don't really care much for the NPC quests ::shrugs::. I get bored doing them, that's my reason.
FA_Frey_XC wrote:
Being the # 1 populated NWN server in the world, your going to get a mixed bowl of nuts.
Just pick out the ones you don't want, munch on the good ones.
Regards,
Indeed. That's what I do and a few people I know. I would argue a lot of the long time players do this actually. It keeps you having fun and from going insane.
...the same thing shows up again in 3 months or less. ^^
Well maybe there should be a 'frequently discussed topics' topic, so when topics like these start you can just point people at the last one instead of having the same discussion over and over and over again.
Unless you like being the King of Groundhog Day, in which case, carry on.
You know, actually the changes are in plain sight for everyone to see, but because they have been gradual progressions you've had time to get used to them all. If you logged in to find that two years worth of changes had been effected in one day without you having a chance to add your opinion, you'd probably freak out and post something in the forums about how this is The End Of Amia As We Know It.
There's nothing wrong with change, as long as it is appropriate to the circumstances and it doesn't go too fast. When someone makes a suggestion here assume for the moment that there aren't going to be any sudden overnight changes, and that you might actually get something out of reading what they have to say, even if ultimately you disagree.
Quick observation, maybe not a long term objective observation I know but...
Since this thread was raised, I've noticed a lot more players roleplaying whilst on "Hunts" making them feel more like "Adventures" than "Hunts". There's still usually one or two who are pushing the OOC "stop hanging around and chatting, there's XP to be had!" line, which, if not checked, can lead to people going back to bad habits.
Yet, I think the key is to make it clear to the party you form from the start that the party is to RP whilst out there in the wilds. People soon fall into line and do just that.
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
Joined: 26 May 2006 Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
I still think topics like these are just beating a dead horse. I have nothing to contribute to them anymore because I've exhausted myself the past 20-30 times this topic has come up.
If everyone was Epic, no one would be, and instead of relying on trying to lvl, you would have no need, therefore you'd commit to the only option left to you: RP.
You'll know who are the weak RPrs and who are the strong ones, who values RP and who doesn't, by seeing how long they play their Epic until they grow bored and start a new character.
A strong and good RPr will not abandon their character so lightly, and after they have reached their lvl peak, their RP will not end....it will fully begin...with no lvling distractions and very few jerky players who can defeat your RP with some PvP nonsense.
Here are some simple tips to help RP, and they require no scripts or anything large.
DEATH RP SUCKS!!!!!!!- First off we should get rid of any idea that any character has the right to kill any other character. Instead every character should be knocked unconscious unless the player of the LOSING character says otherwise. This way, since the loser has the option to RP dying at all, then they themselves can give their own death meaning....instead of the meaningless nonsense of "dead today, alive tomorrow".
AFTER DEATH RP SUCKS EVEN MORE!!!!- Sacrifices, maimings of corpses, after death inflicted wounds/scars.....yeah well.....they ALL suck. THIS is by FAR the worst RP killer. If I'm the winner I make my after death scenes EXTREMELY SHORT and BRIEF. When I'm the loser, because I'm dead, I can only RP so much if at all.....there are times I actually got up from my keyboard and smoked, ate lunch, and after half an hour came back to discover my corpse was still being molested. Sacrifices, after death scenes, and the like may be fun for some, but ninety percent of the time it's at someone elses expense....which is not fun. This can be solved very easily. Make "After Death RP" subject ONLY to the whims of the dead characters player. NO exceptions. This will cut out a lot of frustration for the players who had to experience this trash, disguised as RP.
Factions/Leaders- PLEASE, PLEASE, involve your characters in the lives of even your lowliest servants. I personally have never led a faction, but I helped someone else try to start one, and I learned two really important things.
1) If I ran a Faction, as a PLAYER, I would think,"how could I make things interesting for my members?" Three RP tools can help leaders make times fun for their members and themselves. These three tools are:
A) Missions- Must involve the needs/motivations of the faction in particular. I find it's best to make the mission not very specific. A members first mission should not be to kill the mayor of Bendir Dale. However as strange as this seems I'd ask them to do something that may facilitate PvP. Not because I want them to get killed or kill a player. But because I WANT the mission I sent them on, to involve....yet another player. Now my new member can already have a nemesis...or a friend, depending on how THEY RP. Give them a non specific mission and leave it to them how to do it.
B) Tools- Something they cannot get on their own but must use. A scroll, a wand, hell even a special dagger. Not only can the tool be used to accomplish the goal, but also as a first installment for payment, or a sign of a better reward for a successful mission.
C) Rewards- the reason why anyone would even care to do a mission. Everytime I meet a leader who does not reward, makes excuses not to reward(such as service to the god or such), or rewards poorly, I nod with reassurance that their faction will not last.
and the second important thing I learned is ACTIVE RECRUITMENT. If you want more members YOU need to go out there and find them. You should be looking for people, not people looking for you. If they can't ever seem to find a member(or you) of your faction to ask to join....you failed....and your faction will start slowly wasting away unless YOU, FACTION LEADER, get off that throne and start putting in the work that throne actually entails.
DMs/Gods- as far as DMs, Gods should be your best friends. Use them to send a simple tell to someone and you can have them on a small mission. It may not be a week long affair. A simple two hour mission will suffice. The only difference concerning DMs is this: Sometimes the DMs think they are interfering. And sometimes they think others may think they are playing favorites. I have an answer to that problem to:
1. Ask before in a tell if the player wishes a mission.
2. Make it short and sweet.
3. connect, connect, connect. These little events CAN be connected to ANY event purely through movement of information. Example: A DM knows she/he's going to do an event concerning Sharrans attacking Bendir Dale. The DM can, to enhance the RP, send a tell saying "You see a vision of a Black Moon, haloed in violet hues, hanging above Bendir Dale." to a hin character in Bendir Dale. Or even some nutty human in Cordor. In Amia, gossip travels fast, andpeople WILL know.
The exception to keeping it short and sweet is a long term RP event...and usually these are with long standing players who would be willing to shoow up...I know how sometimes scheduling is a pain for long stuff, that's why it should be short.
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Geld wrote:
instead of relying on trying to lvl, you would have no need, therefore you'd commit to the only option left to you: RP.
You'll know who are the weak RPrs and who are the strong ones, who values RP and who doesn't, by seeing how long they play their Epic until they grow bored and start a new character.
Whilst I think the rest of your post is good and valid, these l;ines, to blunt, are utter bullcrap. As has been said, this is an ADVENTURE game. Not Little House on the Prairie. Levelling should BE part of rp, should BE your adventure.
I personally value rp a lot, else I'd not have quit playing WoW and Warhammer online, to come back to Amia instead. But I am here to adventure, not have a soap opera. I have never hit max level, on any character, and I have started many many new ones in my years here. By your words, that means I'm a shite roleplayer?
I have yet to make a pc that held lasting roleplay value to me. The one time I did, an unfortunately long absence meant that eeryone I roleplayed with during my levelling, was gone. It made it hard to maintain a feel for the character, when her life basically had to restart. That has frequently happened with my characters, unfortunately.
And if I ever do hit 30, i do not forsee continuing that character for long, because adventuring to me, means going out and exploring new places, aquiring new treasures, and learning new things (levelling). Once I've got all the treasures of any interest, explored everywhere, and can no longer level more learning new abilities or spells, there'll be little adventure left for me, even if there is still craploads of Little House on the Prairie RP to be had.
Don't label players based on such a mundane, irrelevant quantity such as what they find enjoyable. It's no different than claiming that a powerbuilder like Ruce cannot possibly be a roleplayer, by virtue of knowing how to build a powerful character.
_________________ Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!
instead of relying on trying to lvl, you would have no need, therefore you'd commit to the only option left to you: RP.
You'll know who are the weak RPrs and who are the strong ones, who values RP and who doesn't, by seeing how long they play their Epic until they grow bored and start a new character.
Whilst I think the rest of your post is good and valid, these l;ines, to blunt, are utter bullcrap. As has been said, this is an ADVENTURE game. Not Little House on the Prairie. Levelling should BE part of rp, should BE your adventure.
Some would argue that this from Geld could be used as a reason why a /ding level 30 lever should be put in. But I won't put those words in his mouth, simply playing devil's advocate.
By the by, some would also argue just because one hits 30 character development doesn't stop. Both adventure and power wise.
There's Epic gear, DC gear, reputation building..event items, character development.
As for, 'little house on the prairie rp', I'd like if you could clarify what you mean by that. As it stands now it can be easily interpreted as a pot-shot a level capped PC's who spend primary amount of their time RPing.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
My only opinion is, I'm starting to see a good deal of RP whilst on hunts these days and that if such a trend continues into the foreseeable future, I'll be a happy snappy.
Please, please, please keep this trend!
I have to admit, if I didn't enjoy RP'ing here, I'd not log in or go elsewhere. Sometimes, the joint is frustrating as hell, but for the most part, its good fun and fellow players are, on the whole (few exceptions aside), very nice people.
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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(I just have to adjust what I write sometimes)
