That

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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I'm still wondering, after all these posts, why people seem to be randomly bringing up, "Why do people complain about PvP?" ... Plasticy and cheap! We covered that.

There are more ways to 'kill' a character than just drop them dead on the spot. My favorite character was one, a while back ago, who would walk around the major city and -look- for a target. Not anyone specific, not biased based on race, apparent class, and certainly not by level - Hells, she didn't know what levels were. Some buldging 30+ strength Fighter might be her next victim, or a 30+ int Wizard, or... You get the picture.

The character I played was no higher than level five. Yes. Five. Weak as all Hell, right? No.

Using intelligence and a bit of dexterity to get her way, she convinced her... 'Targets' ... To like her. Now, how much they liked her depended mostly on the opposing characters' perception of what she was doing. Whether she was trying to seduce them or just be friends with them. And it had gone a few different routes, as well. And I have no shame in saying that a couple of people didn't fall for it.

Now, as a Lawful Evil character, she wouldn't so boldly walk over and stab someone within city walls. Another reason she wouldn't, she'd be giving herself away. So, she would be so bold as to say something that might interest them, after she gets to know them. One example:
"Well, I'm glad you mentioned mountains. I know of one a ways out that you might be interested in... I could show you where it is?"

Yes, she's as kind as she can get. Now, the player already knows, "The 'ell? There aren't any mountains in the server..."

Two minutes later, I get a Tell saying, "Ohhh, you're good. Poor guy..."

Even though they get it, and understand that they're letting their character walk into a trap, they allow their character to walk that line. On the way, she keeps making comments and asking questions. A few hints here and there, tipping off the character - if he can catch them. Note, catching does not mean, 'Roll a dice!', it means... Player's judgement defines whether it's caught or not.

In this case, the player decided to go with it. The characters are -faaaaar- from the city, and she led him right into a cave. Her excuse for a cave? "The mountain is through this tunnel."

This cave is very dark. As in, you can barely see anything RPly. Likewise, it's very enclosed, and very rarely used. The perfect spot for anything to happen, right?

Suddenly, she hits him in the head with a mid-sized rock, after struggling to pick it up. Again, not by dice, but by player judgement of characters' abilities.

He's not unconcious, but he fell hard enough that he - according to the player - would have suffered enough injury he wouldn't get back up for a few minutes. Of course, now the character's just plain furious. He just got conked on the head by -something-, he doesn't know what or for what reason. She, of course, lies, and says the rock fell. He doesn't believe her because he didn't hear any rumbling or possible hints of a rock falling. He doesn't tell -her- that he doesn't believe her.

After a few minutes of banter and her 'apparently' trying to make him more comfortable, he gets back up and tells her she's lying. She's a bit surprised by this, but tries to play it off. When she can't, she stabs him, he falls unconcious. Due to his being in thinner clothing than armor, she's able to drag him back to the city. She, of course, gets questioned by the guards (As all guards were PCs), and a few citizens (PC citizens of the city).

She explains the whole thing, how a giant of some sort ran after them and conked the poor guy on the head, and she was just -barely- able to escape. Of course, the inevitable question rises: "Sooo... How did he get that cut?"

"Well, luckily! We were saved by this crazy woman with a sword. Problem is, she missed once and cut him! While he was being carried by the giant!"

"Oh, I see... Well, good thing they were there!"

Now, the players of the Guard and the Civilians alike already know, "There is only one bat-hell crazy female sword-user in the server strong enough to kill a giant of any type. And she's not on." Do they -say- that? Do they -use- that? No. They play with it, because in a real world, -they- know that it 'May have Happened,' and commenting any other way would be metagaming.

A few IG-Hours pass before the poor unconcious guy wakes up. When he wakes up, he's talked to by one of the guards, "I guess you're lucky that lady brought you back to the city. What were you -doing- going into the giants' territory?"

-That-, is when they find out that this Lawful Evil little Sneak! Just fooled them all. By then, she's outside the city... Assuming a new disguise, to come back and do it again later when the heat's down, to some other unsuspecting target.



There is one FULL example, of what can happen when you don't use the plasticy and cheap Screen of Death, which should take its own advice and die.

EDIT:

And I'd like to note that her role could have left for a few hundred different things, from leaving him there to potentially die, in a cave he might not even remember how to get back from.

The reason she dragged him allllll the way back? It's discourteous to the player to leave them with no RP after dragging them far away from where someone might notice him.

I'd also like to point out that:
She could have dropped him not far outside the gate, since PCs made patrol rounds and would have found him. However, it's also nice for the villain to feel a sense of honor, as well. Hence, they got to feel appreciated, even if only temporarily.

someone has to win, and lets say the evil guy wins, I don't think it should be completely even and boring

I went to another server and what they did was make every single win between an evil team and a good team even. it was boring as hell cuz the DMs and the players didn't have an imagination.

im not saying it is like this on the server, because depending on where your character does something they either receive their 'instant' consequences, or they get away completely free.

Amia people are forgiving enough to just ignore death, in fact my one home boy was in these swamps with me and he plays an elf. (elves are mortal enemies of drow if you didn't know with basically no exceptions) a drow runs past us and my buddy tells the drow to get the hell out of the swamp unless he wants to be like fried meat or something. The drow ran around in circles like an idiot for some odd reason and my friend 1 hit killed him after having him on hostile for a while with several warnings.

so hes dead on the ground and he makes a very odd ooc comment:

//raise me so i can never rp with you again

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then out of nowhere this other party runs up and sprint for the drow to raise him. he ports out and we leave because of the other party and their not listening to us/defending drow.

so whats the moral of the story? i go 'train' with the guy who raised the drow. as for the drow? never saw him again, or i did and i fight with him every once in a while because he forgave me, take ur pick.

oh, main point - death is easily forgiven, and i don't see the problem when you reach lvl 30 and lose a mere 3000 xp.... whats up with that? i have to agree there are plenty of pride gamers on the server.

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And you're one of them if you believe the death screen is part of RP and will do whatever you can to ensure victory in PvP. And it looks to me as though you're complaining about people defending a Drow... Do you know the number of Good Drow on the server?

Elves aren't allowed to flat out kill a Drow because of racial conflict - nor is any other race. This is because racial conflict doesn't exist in the way it should in Amia. Death is 'easily forgiven' because we can't do anything about it. We can't get back up in a fit of rage and put you in your place - which sounds to be the place you NEED to be - because we would be taking out our OOC frustration with an IC character (Which unfortunately is the only way you're going to learn, unless a DM speaks up).

Main point? You and your friends need to find a way to do something other than 'RPPK'. Not every Conflict Situation should lead to PvP. Plain and simple.

I hate pvp, because it is cheap, unbalanced and all about who has the highest numbers. It is too simplified and hectic. You don't get epic battles with characters using cunning feints, amazing maneuvers and any tricks they might have up their sleeve. Instead you roll numbers against each other. Boring, and a waste of time. Powerbuilds make it even worse, as a powerbuild will always win against a weaker build, having a superior strategy does null.

What bothers me is that people tend to ignore rp unless it is backed up by a build. The only way to get someone to cooperate is to pvp them. They don't care if they are bound, grabbed, blindfolded or have a sword to their throat, they keep throwing around spells and crits anyway. I had someone being escorted out of the forest at knife point by several protectors randomly finger of dead a bystander, haste up, cast gs and run. Completely ignoring that Valas would have grabbed him, stabbed him, that he'd have been pierced by a few arrows or any other RP action that might have taken place. Most troublemakers are like this, they come to pvp and show of their build, not to rp.

I am really getting sick of it, the the grove had to deal with the same two pkers for about a week now and it's starting to get on everyone's nerve.

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I thought it deserved two QFE's.

Rolling numbers is a core concept of D&D though. Just because another player invests more time in understanding the numbers and rolls doesn't mean its cheap and unbalanced.

Numbers shouldn't affect RP so much that they ruin the game for players who despise hunting. Some have gone through the same areas over and over and over and have just gotten fed up with it, but still like to make new characters to 'experiment' with personalities or different styles.

Likewise, some simply have no desire to hunt whatsoever. That doesn't mean their character should be percieved as absolutely worthless. That means that players should allow these characters to have -SOME- possibilities that -MIGHT- get their characters hurt.

Rolls should not be a SUBSTITUTE for Roleplay, as they actually seem to be in some peoples' cases.

So what? Numbers affect -everything- in D&D, simple as that. I suck at PvP myself but I don't whine about it everytime a thread comes up.

So...

"You should really go attack that Dragon." *Persuade roll of 100*

In PnP they actually have separate rules for governing damage like that ... "at the end of the day a dagger through the eye is still a dagger through the eye" to quote the PHB.

Persoanly I think a mixture of the two needs to be used, but nothing is mechanically stopping them from saying "I can be hit a hundred times with a battle axes, standing ~naked~ ... what is your dagger going to do?"

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

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Fail and offtopic. Social skills are made for NPCs. PvP was the hot topic.

So...

*Grabs* (50 Grapple)

... I don't know. I think rolls in substitution for Roleplay is as weak and plasticy as the death screen. Put some thought into the emotes and THEN roll, and I might pretend the rolls exist. I think, as a player, I have the right to decline rolls if I don't want to deal with them. Problem? That in itself strikes up an OOC argument.

I don't want to deal with a substitution of imagination.

I wasn't talking about RP or any emoted or not emoted skill/social dicerolls. I am still talking about PvP. If someone decides to put more time into NWN mechanics and rolls (like understanding spell resistance rolls, saving throw rolls and so on) and the numbers behind it, I can't see it as unfair, unbalanced or cheap.

PvP is up to the mechanics, we have no control of that. RP-Combat shouldn't have Emotes substituted with Rolls.

*Right Hook* (High Roll)
*Dodge* (Low Roll)
"Argh!"

...

Can you -really- call that RP? I can do -that- in a MUD by typing 'Kill (Mob)'.

[sarcasm] of course it is unfair in PvP, some builds are just way too powerful and we shouldn't consider the PvP part that happens IG and ICly as RP that happened, because they were powerbuild munchkins. I mean, it is unfair they can survie against a demon summoner and I can't. I should be able to survive against one and beat it in the name of my god, even though I am about level 16 and the demon summoner is maxed out. but that doesn't make a diffrence I should be able to kill it [/sarcasm off]

PvP is part of the game world, one of my main charachters often engages in PvP because of her belifes in others. Amareth is a sun elf, and she has very strict belifes on undead, feinds, drow, tieflings, orcish races, goblioniods and general other monsters, ie they deserve to be shot with her arrows. PvP is a part of her rp, and a good bit of importance to it. is it the only one? hell no, there is more to her then just killing the above mentioned things. but still PvP is part of the game world and thus IC.

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made by Gem.
Elven information links

Then usually, neither will give in.

Is there -REALLY- such difficulty Roleplaying out a fight?

[sarcasm]Yes, there is difficulty in RPing out a fight. That difficulty lies in the humans' will to think. I guess we should all expect everyone else to just PvP their way out to see who's the last person standing.[/sarcasm]

Fights which are roleplayed are thoroughly remembered by roleplayers. I remember every player I've RPly fought, and I remember every character I've RPly fought. And believe me, that list is -LONG-. The unfortunate fact is, only two of those people play in Amia. The other unfortunate fact is, they seem to be the only two interested in such a thing.

I couldn't tell you who the last person to kill me - or attempt to kill me - in PvP was, because frankly I don't care to remember. Describe the character to someone for revenge? Hells, I don't even remember what their last text said! It's not MEMORABLE.



And that, is so far from truth it's ridiculous. Ever tried it?

You must have not been filled in between any background with elves and drow. I suggest you do. If you wanna see some people trying to get OOC anger out IC, I suggest you look at the other post because 'cutting babies out of a pregnant drow' doesn't seem so fitting to me. Its sick man.

Death screen being apart of RP? I'm not too sure why ya think that, but I haven't officially PVPed anyone as of this point in time. In fact, the only thing that I've seen is PVP on me.

Ya know, back when I had a level 18 cleric and I didn't know much about the server, I expected to carry out some evil plans. I got 10 feet or whatever past the transition out of Cordor and I saw this guy just mutilate two halflings cuz they 'said no to him'. I RPed some, and hooray, he left. (not really, he was invisible running around) Other people came and helped the halflings. This guy was watching and he was summoning creatures as he was invisible to kill the halflings (not completely unreasonable). After everyone leaves, I am the one there. He pops out and says some shit like, "worship me, or die", and im like "hell naw" (im playing a level 18, and that is almost epic, epic characters are something special and not to throw away). the fighting begins and I get him to near death in his polymorphed state. turns out he couldn't accept defeat, so he unshifted and ran away, I pursued and he turned around to dev crit me. Bam! It was over like that. He raises me and orders me to cut a hole into someone's chest and eat their heart. I say no and he kills me again. He raises me again and there is some distance put between us because he goes over to talk to his friend that just materializes. I use my pvp tool on him to unhostile him (I run up cuz I'm using it), So when I get to the appropriate distance he runs to meet me and dev crits me again. I respawn and then log off because I realized I WASTED a hole bunch of time and thought into my lvl 18s cleric idea.

I made another character, an interesting elf. I want him to do sneak attacks and to not be a shadow dancer. I make him up to level 9 and I think to myself that there is no way in hell I'll be able to even defend myself against a dev critter, so I drop him and RP with him from time to time.

Now, I have my own character working for something good.

A PVP death is how to get the other player to realize they have lost a situation. I don't think you can do much talking to persuade someone they've lost, cuz every time I've done that, they said I couldn't do shit.

Good drow on the surface? Who said it was a good drow? It didn't say a word and it didn't leave the situation which was obviously going for the worst. If the drow won't respond to any kind of communication, how would YOU get rid of it?

Oh, and if you read my above posts you'll see that I don't do PVP unless defensive.

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I've roleplayed out fights plenty of times on different servers, amia? No. Do you seriously expect the RP community to gain skill they don't have. Plus, I think 'roleplay fights' is going over the top to make things 'fair'. Fights aren't fair.

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'Hell Naw' in that situation?...

And killing the Halflings a second time is 'reasonable' after they were just raised?

I'm certain there are a few other shots I could make, but I'll leave those to others, if they want to take them. Those were the two that really stood out to me.

Yes, I KNOW Elves and Drow are enemies. That does not change the fact they can't kill eachother in Amia as quickly as they would if it were a 'real world' ordeal.

How would I get rid of it? That's simple. VERY, simple. If they indeed simply ran around in circles without saying a word, I'd walk off and inform a DM if one was on. Anyone who has no desire to Roleplay is in no way a person I would want to bother with.

I have a very, VERY tough time believing you're the victim, after your prior posts, however.

According to half the people who posted early-on, on the first two pages...
"We come to Amia to have fun."

No-one said jack about being fair until page three.

Sorry, I don't like telling DMs about every single PVP problem I see, I'd rather let them play out. I shouldn't say circles, but just random movements. I personally prefer the people who don't say *ignores Moridan_X*, all they gotta do is not respond. And I don't wanna get the guy in trouble anyway.

Am I the victim? Absolutely not, nor did I view myself as a victim... Cuz... Its a game.

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I almost feel like doing a Quote-Fest on your contridictions.

If a person is running around in circles, doing NOTHING Roleplay-ly... It hasn't ESCALATED TO A PVP PROBLEM. And it SHOULDN'T.

Moridan_X, please don't mention specific negative incidents. This is an interesting topic and that kinda stuff is just flamebait.

About your question, TMW.. yeah, I've RPed out fights a number of times. I didn't like it much for the reason mentioned. Maybe you choose whom you RP-battle with, but if you get into sticky situations with strangers, then good luck 1) convincing them to RP fight and 2) keeping it fair.

There's a perfectly capable game engine built around this aspect, and I find it rather silly that some people will not make use of it.

And I think it's silly that people have a perfectly good mind that far exceeds any engine's possibilities and don't use it.

And, you're right to say there ARE people out there that... Even after hours of fighting, they won't give up. But, you're NOT going to win every fight. In fact, my Evil-Aligned characters usually lose fights because they're either arrogant about their abilities, or they get distracted by someone who gets too close.

You have to find the right players, but EVERYONE... Is capable of RP-fighting, if they WANT to do it.

sure thing

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TMW I assume you will instantly die when I rp as my sun elf her death arrow piercing your armor and going straight through your heart right? I could use the machincis but you know we are just going to ignore that. also how about we ignore the mechanics of stealth, I can see you, no questions asked I don't care how much worked you put into your skill ranks I see you. also how about we through all other ranks out the window and everything else. and just flip a coin. heads A dies tails A lives and if A attacked b just reverse it. no need to worry about anything unfair there.


*yes all that above was sarcasm if you didn't know*

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made by Gem.
Elven information links

RP fighting is it? So ... crossbow wins every time?
Anyone who knows anything about RL weapons would be able to predict the outcome of most fights, or a mage simple turns his enemies into cinders.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

If I'm using HiPS and you can see me, congrats. You can see me, no questions asked. If I'm hiding and you see me, congrats. You can see me, no questions asked. If I decide, "I'm going to try to hide in this shadow here, while you're clearly able to see me," No, that won't work. You can watch me walk into the shadow and know -exactly- where I am, just as mechanics allow. Luckily, that much isn't arguable.

Now, if I run around a building right out of your sight and then hide from you, BUT, I have Light on me... Mechanically I can hide. Will I? No.

As for the comments about bows and such... If you knew how many players I RP-Fought against who used bows and either used their arrows/bolts as a means of scaring my character or minorly injuring them, or the player decided, "My character isn't all that great at aiming under tension" and thoroughly missed, you would get why I encourage RP-Fights.

One of my characters has enough dexterity and the feats to hit anything around her level every single time, but I roleplay it off as, "She misses every time." Now, so far, she's only been involved in PvM. Of course I shoot things, and I hit them almost all the time. Why? So I'm not leeching or causing further problems for players OOCly. Why is she missing? She's not great. She just picked a bow up. But, that's the weapon she'll practice with and eventually get decent at.

If you flat-out shoot my character with an arrow in the chest, and my armor isn't supposed to be resistant to piercing, AND there was a decent emote to go with it, yes, the character is going to fall down dead.

-You- might be sarcastic, but -that- is a true-to-the-world situation which -may- come up. And I am confirming that if you use your head, instead of the engine, I will comply. Now... I won't agree to saying that the character is PERMA-DEAD, but I have before played a character who was shot with a poisonous arrow and had the poison in their body for a long while.

I don't believe in, "OMGHAX, here, I'll use Greater Restore. Woo! You're healed." RPly. That's BS. Use your imagination. If your character is a Salandran, PLAY THE DAYUMN ROLE OF A HEALER.

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Combat is the very core of DnD. The books upon books that are printed are concerned with how combat works. The flavor and fluff is created to support and enhance it.

If you want your character to be an epic diplomat with crafting skills out of the kazoo and charisma and bluff and everything, you can't and shouldn't expect to be as strong as a maxed out weapon master.

While your example of the level 5 leading them to a cave is kinda cool, the idea that a level 5 kills a level 30 character breaks immersion much more than ANY death screen ever could. I mean a an epic fighter that lays out beholders and carries mind flayer heads as trophies is like "Hum de dum, oh man a rock! Time to fall unconscious." In this case rolling a touch attack (I personally think that an attack roll with a makeshift weapon at -4 ab would be more appropriate) is the RIGHT thing to do.

In fact, one could make the argument that these rules are in place for the exact reason of stopping silly stuff like Goblin kills Elminister. Taking a look at the level 9 spells, many do not require somatic components. Perhaps this was included so a high level wizard has many more outs against being tied up by a low level opponent?

I think ingenuity in combat should be rewarded, however. If someone comes up with a really good idea that doesn't completely ignore all the DnD combat rules they are in a good spot. Just remember that the combat system is supposed to "role play out" what your character can do in combat. Someone might not be extremely eloquent and lose RP fights when IC they should be winning. That isn't fair either, the combat system equalizes the playing field with rules common to all characters.

In some lights, what you're saying is... If your character is powerful, then it must NEVER let its guard down, ever. Never ever ever, under any circumstance.

That, is BS too.

On another note... Again, we're talking 'Fun', not 'Fair.' How fun is it to win EVERY time? You're repeating a comic book when that happens. "My character's the Hero, even if it's Evil... And it -has- to win."

To WonWon: Without going through and quoting every post you've made in this thread, it seems to me that you're somewhat anti-bad guy PC's. Yet, feel that DM plots (and therefore DMs) are acceptable solutions for antagonism and thus bad guys. I see two problems with this. 1.) Often times there isn't a DM on to be an antagonist *looks at the count in the corner*, such as now. Zero DM's, both servers. This leads to 2.)What is your good faction supposed to do when there is no DM on to antagonize you or that DM is antagonizing someone else? Just stand around with a thumb two knuckles deep in their netherparts? This isn't some slam to the DM's, they do a fabulous job. This also isn't some type of call for more DM's, that would be dumb. Quality of quantity is the name of the game. But the truth, as I see it, is that with Amia being what it is, there have to be bad guy PC and evil factions doing evil things to non-evil (or maybe other evil *shrug*) people and factions, thereby motivating plots and moving stories along.

That being said....

This doesn't mean that Joe or Susy Pre-Teen can make a character, grief other characters into utter oblivion and then, when they get in trouble say,"I'm just playing a bad guy!".... doesn't fly. But, when played responsibly by mature people, there can be some great RP from playing a bad guy. To cite an example, Tinnerai's fued with the Blakes. We'd whomp them, they'd whomp us.... it was always for different things, and sometimes it went wrong and blew up in our collective faces. But all in all, I had a pretty good time and if I'm not mistaken, so did Trent and Kald (can't remember their player names right now). It gave a palpable sense of concern to the game. I wasn't worried about the Environment throwing a monster at me that I couldn't handle, but I was worried about being somewhere and running across one of the Blakes.

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

PvP is unavoidably a video game. One I am unashamedly fond of, and I feel sorry for those who are missing out on the fun of it.

The difference between lowbies and epics, and to a lesser extent between good PvP platforms and bad ones, is so great that I usually give up on the idea of trying to make it RPly plausible. We live in a universe where any six reasonably fit men could swarm a pro boxer, but in the Amiaverse, you could send six thousand and they'd still lose.

Is it stupid? Well, yes; the PnP rules weren't made for PvP at all, let alone across 27 levels. Nonetheless, that's the laws of nature we work with on Amia.
I think it's just a big a strain on plausibility for a chap to come back from splattering Brog Mountain at a rate of .82 giants/round, wander into Arpietown and take a beating, even a beautifully written one, from a guy that can only just handle the Lowland Trogs.

On a purely practical level, RP comes to crash stop as soon as PvP kicks off; the timescale on typing is fatally long, so it stops being two folk trading words over the internet and the game might as well flip to Quake III or something, then fade back to NWN when someone's got the frag.
Now, since I *like* Quake III(as it were) that's fine by me, but if you don't then, while I feel sorry for you, I don't feel guilty about being vaguely good at it.

... Now, that fact granted. Is it really so bad of those of us who enjoy trading words rather than dealing with a completely different system? Is it really so difficult, honestly, to humor us with Roleplay? To -get- that we came here to create a story for our characters, and we happen to be doing that by interacting with others, on a Non-Mechanical Level?

It might take longer for you to win or lose, and it may look rather unrealistic when comparing levels. So? If you're so hung up on levels, I have no desire to fight you. Your character, be it level 3 or 30, isn't invulnerable nor is it invincible.

In the real world, a person who doesn't have any skill with a weapon would be MORE dangerous than someone who has complete skill with a weapon. The reason? They might -accidently- chop your ear off.

There's another possibility... Some pride-infested players might get infuriated OOCly because their character lost in an RP fight. So? If you fight with me OOCly, I'll tell you the same thing I told the last person who did: "It happened, it will happen, and if you can't accept win or loss, I won't deal with you and you won't have to worry about it."

My 'Ignored Players' list is very, very small. In fact, microscoptic. Hells, so far it's nonexistant. The reason? I don't make it a habit of getting into fights. Ever. RP or otherwise in Amia. But those few moments I do, I'd appreciate being humored enough to die to a LIVING BEING, than a MACHINE. Hence, my Signature:

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"If my fate was of choice, between a machine designed for murder and a man without a brain, I would choose to be a loser; I would choose to die to the man... For I love people and believe only they should be responsible for the end of life." - Online -

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That.

Also, how do you decide who wins in RP battle? The one who has better writing style and walls of text of RP? To each its own, but don't expect players to play by your rules and prefer the PvP engine.



On Amia you may kill a character unlimited times until you vomit out of boredom, but the player ultimately decides what happens to his character, sadly.

Who's to say you're going to lose? If your character is capable of pulling the spell off (AKA, can perform the neccessities of the spell), by all means, it's Roleplay-able.

Perhaps it's just my own personal desire to challenge the mentalities of players, or perhaps that's the only way I get my enjoyment. Regardless of the -reason-, I'm not going to deal with mechanical deaths as if they're memorable. It would be a flat out lie.



That.



You pretty well answered your own question there.

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Again: how do you decide who wins? The PvP engine has clear defined win/lose conditions. Whats your win/lose conditions? Writing style? Your enjoyment?

Personally I would just like pvp to be slower, so one can actually do some emotes. Turnbased, if you will.

As an example of what I mean is, Valas always wears a ''utility belt'' full of tanglefood bags, calltrops, chocking powders, etc. He has color spray memorized. He has a gem of brighness to use against drow... In a fight he would make use of all kinds of dirty tricks, like alchemist's fire to the eyes.

In Pvp, I rarely have time to as much as aces my inventory, much less to type out any actions. Mechanically, gems of brightness are useless as anyone saves, acid vials only do a piddly 1d4 damage.

Valas would not fight by simply standing in place and stabbing his opponent repeatedly. He would leap and roll and duck all over the place, dodge blows and wait for his opponent to present an opening, make use of his tools and surroundings. Pvp does not allow one to portrait this, which makes it boring trading of hits.

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I'd like to point out that two players can fight as long as they want in a Roleplay-style battle. In PvP, it's ... Ten seconds, sometimes up to a minute of combat. In a RP-Battle, it depends on what the characters' player decides to do.

It's not difficult to decide a winner. Know why? As long as both players enjoyed themselves, both players won. Both characters can't win, however... But, there can always be a tide-turning fun aspect that, maybe a third or fourth person joins in.

I remember back in another server, a RP-based fight broke out between my own and another players' character. Took five guards to break us apart, and my character ended up dead because they didn't know when to stop. Was I mad? Hell no. The roleplay was excellent - I'd dare say legendary - and I can only imagine I'm not the only one who still remembers it, even though it has been years.

How'd the character die? No, not to the guards. The character died because they were already bleeding from the fight and managed to get a dagger thrown at them by the other person, after they 'claimed' they were going to walk off.

I recommend the books from Salvatore. In his latest books he writes page after page of descriptive battle, until I tossed 'em away.

if you are casually walking along with someone who you deem a friend, and they pull a dagger out and stick it in your eye, I don't give a damn about your AC and DR(MAYBE your tumble, but thats a common skilldump that doesn't reflect much ICly) , there is a freakin dagger in your eye. RP fighting can be much more realistic. its real world fighting, not mechanics.

QFE - totally agree

Kjetta is teaching some of us to fight in an Arena.. There we have to put a good show. Many of us, ran and kick and slice, but two of us actually took the time to emote their movements, to run around and do stuff. I just loved that..

The best fights I have are with my SD, because since she will hide and not be seeing, I can prepare emotes about her moving around the place. Show up, send the emotes hide again and such. With the others, is hit or die.

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Signature by Qualiz

Del's Characters Entry - Amiawiki.

I'd not call *dose a doubl backflip lands on ur shoulders and braeks ur neck with her thighz!!!!!!* realistic RP. Oh, you said can be. My bad.

When RP-Fighting, it's always good for both players to put Parry on and 'attack' eachother. That, or Counter-spelling the enemy character, depending. This makes it so that people -around- you, KNOW you're fighting. But, neither of you mechanically hit eachother. It's all in RP.

I might cut your balls off while you are sleeping... but no big backflips. thats like the equivalent to a HiPS spamming dev critter.

I think you're now trying to make me feel guilty about playing NWN, because you would rather it was an FR version of the Sims. I -get- that you'd rather it was FR-Sims, but it's not. This is a level 1-30 NWN server where PvM is your main source of levels, and PvP is enabled for 95% of its volume. I don't accept that I should feel any obligation to cater to you in this regard, since I did not log you in.

I'm glad you like the RP here, and I'm sorry that you don't like the action side, but I think it is unreasonable to ask that other players pretend it just doesn't exist, even if your IC action lead to it. Cake. Eating. Pick one.