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TormakSaber
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 Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 7:30 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yurell wrote: Imprisonment is good way to avoid death.
Otherwise wait until you age kill yourself and then have Reincarnation cast, and you'll become juvenile Reincarnate Details wrote: A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 11:06 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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One of the means suggested under the Wish spell for immortality is that the Djinn just traps you inside a pocket plane where time doesn't flow.
TormakSaber wrote: Yurell wrote: Imprisonment is good way to avoid death.
Otherwise wait until you age kill yourself and then have Reincarnation cast, and you'll become juvenile Reincarnate Details wrote: A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htmThat is why I said kill yourself wich is not death by old age.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Kjetta
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 11:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
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You said wait until you age kill yourself? A humerous thought actually.
"I am serious, I am going to kill myself!"
"How?"
"I will wait until I die of old age - purposefully."
"..."
"I mean it, don't try to stop me!"
"Get lost!"
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 11:19 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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"Well, I know that I'm likely to die sometime soon, so if I se up my spell trigger with Reincarnation I can fry myself and be back in time for dinner!"
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 18:57 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I hope you come back as an ant, just to spite you.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Carter
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 19:18 PM |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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TormakSaber wrote: I hope you come back as an ant, just to spite you.
At any rate, the Inevitables would swarm you.
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Halen_Van
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 19:19 PM |
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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Would they on that one though? Could they really figure it out? You're a whole new entity. I'm not sure if your memory transfers either. Could be, maybe not. I'm not an expert.
_________________ "Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 13 2009, 19:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Carter wrote: TormakSaber wrote: I hope you come back as an ant, just to spite you. At any rate, the Inevitables would swarm you. Well, that's sort of exactly what doesn't happen in the Realms. Sure, they make a fun plot device and can be used to good effect, but they don't play a very active role on Toril. Mirt the Moneylender, Durnan the Wanderer, Piergeiron Paladinson, Ioulaum and his apprentice Tabra, Larloch and a thousand other liches, even including some sarrukh's, not to mention to dozens if not hundreds of people who've used potions of longevity, have all extended their lifespans and there's no record of anyone ever meeting an Inevitable. Of course, characters granted more life by divine intervention, such as Amlaruil Moonflower, the Srinshee, Mystra's Chosen etc. are a different thing, but they're only the minority on those who live past their allotted time. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Yurell
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Posted: Sat, Feb 14 2009, 0:33 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: I hope you come back as an ant, just to spite you.
Much better to make them switch genders and to an enemy race .. e.g. your male elf becomes a female orc. That would be spite.
An ant is too stupid to realise it's suffering.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Feb 14 2009, 5:20 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I always understood the Inevitables to be Special Case Only. Even if, yes, technically they don't exist in the realms because technically neither does Mechanus. But they're interesting NPCs and the very entity of Multiversal Law. They make for ineresting moral dilemma when used sparingly and so I like them. >.>
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Sat, Feb 14 2009, 5:23 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: I always understood the Inevitables to be Special Case Only. Even if, yes, technically they don't exist in the realms because technically neither does Mechanus. But they're interesting NPCs and the very entity of Multiversal Law. They make for ineresting moral dilemma when used sparingly and so I like them. >.>
Same. If a Marut comes across a lich, lich is dead,. However, I don't thin it'd actively hunt down a lich unless the thing took to killing cities and raising them as zombified slaves.
Basically they'll come when something really special is happening.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Feb 14 2009, 5:36 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Well, there are plenty of ways to get out of an Inevitable hunt besides death.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 10:50 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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@ Reincarnate
Somebody reincarnated as an ant -would- know what happened to him/her, as you keep your mental attributes.
There was this incident once in 2nd Edition (Reincarnate was a wizard spell back then, and the table had animals in it)...
A PC (human druid) died in a fight. The PCs approached a more or less allied high level wizard NPC and asked for a Reincarnation, which the NPC granted. The PC was reincarnated as a badger.
The player excitedly began to talk about a badger druid, who was so close to nature that he was actually part of it... while in the game world, the NPC wizard looked at the badger a bit disappointed: "Sorry, that didn't really work - let me try again." Took her club, and BAM!, dead was the badger. Next try gave a human form, luckily.
Became a proverb in our group: "Don't ask the wizard for things the cleric should do."
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 10:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Evil-Wizard wrote: @ Reincarnate
Somebody reincarnated as an ant -would- know what happened to him/her, as you keep your mental attributes.
There was this incident once in 2nd Edition (Reincarnate was a wizard spell back then, and the table had animals in it)...
A PC (human druid) died in a fight. The PCs approached a more or less allied high level wizard NPC and asked for a Reincarnation, which the NPC granted. The PC was reincarnated as a badger.
The player excitedly began to talk about a badger druid, who was so close to nature that he was actually part of it... while in the game world, the NPC wizard looked at the badger a bit disappointed: "Sorry, that didn't really work - let me try again." Took her club, and BAM!, dead was the badger. Next try gave a human form, luckily.
Became a proverb in our group: "Don't ask the wizard for things the cleric should do."
I can so see some bumbling fool of a wizard doing that hahaha.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 10:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Evil-Wizard wrote: @ Reincarnate
Somebody reincarnated as an ant -would- know what happened to him/her, as you keep your mental attributes.
There was this incident once in 2nd Edition (Reincarnate was a wizard spell back then, and the table had animals in it)...
A PC (human druid) died in a fight. The PCs approached a more or less allied high level wizard NPC and asked for a Reincarnation, which the NPC granted. The PC was reincarnated as a badger.
The player excitedly began to talk about a badger druid, who was so close to nature that he was actually part of it... while in the game world, the NPC wizard looked at the badger a bit disappointed: "Sorry, that didn't really work - let me try again." Took her club, and BAM!, dead was the badger. Next try gave a human form, luckily.
Became a proverb in our group: "Don't ask the wizard for things the cleric should do."
I think you have to be reincarnated as a humanoid if you are one, since the rulebook specifies for DMs to make a new table if a non-humanoid is try to be reincarnated.
That said, it's a mute point, since if a DM was inclined to be cruel, they wouldn't make you an ant - since a 'large' ant has 4HD, imagine how big one with 20-odd HD would be.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 11:05 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Yurell wrote: I think you have to be reincarnated as a humanoid if you are one, since the rulebook specifies for DMs to make a new table if a non-humanoid is try to be reincarnated. In 3rd Edition, yes. In 2nd Edition, such thoughts of fairness and playability were science fiction.  Yurell wrote: That said, it's a mute point, since if a DM was inclined to be cruel, they wouldn't make you an ant - since a 'large' ant has 4HD, imagine how big one with 20-odd HD would be.
Class levels aren't monster advancement hit dice; only the latter increase your size.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 19:33 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yus, he is correct on that. Class levels are applied separately. It's why so many creatures have inborn skills and spells. You don't need to be a dragon 10/wizard 20 to cast. You are simply a Dragno 30 and have w00ty spells. And etc.
Unless I'm wrong, anyways. >.>
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Xanrick
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 20:05 PM |
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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I've been wondering about this for awhile, but does anyone have any lore on how shifters age?
Two points are of interest:
1.) Very experienced shifters are known forget their own original forms.
2.) Because of their ability to assume the strengths and weaknesses of non-aging entities: undead, constructs and outsiders, it seems as though they ought to be able to avoid death by natural causes.
Of course by that token, a shifter who was injured could just change shape to be healthy again which obviously isn't the case. Thoughts?
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 20:14 PM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Shifters change their type, just as Shapechange does for a wizard. When you morph into a creature of a type immune to aging, you'd be immune to aging for the time being, but start to age again as soon as you morph back.
The only open question is: Does time catch up with you in this moment? If a 30 year old human shifts into a Zombie, stays a Zombie for twetny years, and shifts back to human form, is he now 50 years old and gets an aging penalty?
I don't think it's spelled out in the rules, but the spirit of the rules seems to indicate that time does, indeed, catch up. Getting past natural age/aging is possible, but restricted to certain specific effects, usually bringing a serious cost with them (Lichdom, certain evil spells etc.).
In return, shifting into creatures that age much faster shouldn't make a character die sooner. Else, shifting into any insect form, for example, would cost you decades in lifespan. That would certainly be stated as a warning label on the spells/powers that allow shapechanging/shifting/polymorphing, but it isn't.
If you polymorph/shift into something immune to aging and stay in that form forever, you should be good, though.
Regarding the injury question: It should be possible to change into different ages, yes. This can be deduced from being able to shift into different dragons of different age categories, and dragons of different (relative) ages than you. Should be possible to shift into an elf child or maybe into a younger version of you even. This will set your stats to average for your race, though, which can have some weird effects ("He looks like a young version of himself, only... like a wimpy version, young version of himself!").
Last edited by Evil-Wizard on Sun, Feb 15 2009, 20:21 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 20:15 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Shifters could look as young as they wanted to be, but when their natural clock is up, they will simply die "of old age, of natural causes" etc. Monks and druids have the same thing happen to them. They will look youthful and 23 and sexy forever! And then one day they just die in the bedroom and their latest hookup freaks out.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 22:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: Shifters could look as young as they wanted to be, but when their natural clock is up, they will simply die "of old age, of natural causes" etc. Monks and druids have the same thing happen to them. They will look youthful and 23 and sexy forever! And then one day they just die in the bedroom and their latest hookup freaks out.
The rules for aging just say 'you live this long and then die'. If you change into a form that doesn't age, I don't think the man with the hour glass and scythe will bother to pause your time, or accelerate it if you choose a creature with fast metabolism.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 22:13 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Correct. You still "age", you just don't physically apear older. That's how Timeless Body works.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Sun, Feb 15 2009, 22:24 PM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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But it isn't timeless body.
Timeless body gives explicit rules, an exemtion to the usual rules regarding types. Those were unnecessary if you only got the type "pro forma" with shapechange/shifting.
Somebody transformed into an undead is immune to poison, although he usually isn't. Same is true for critical hits, disease, hunger, sleep and aging. Those "weaknesses" only return when you return to your normal form.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You still have a "Base race", though, which is what you really are, and that's what your biologically ticking age time bobm is working off of.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 6:34 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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When morphed into a zombie, you have no metabolism, don't age and thus cannot die from aging.
"Base race" plays no role in this, and is neither a rules term nor of relevance in any other case (immunities, bane weapons, spells with target restrictions etc.). It's even a commonly accepted fact that you could take prestige classes restricted to certain races through Shapechange, although this will, of course, get you wacked on the head by any sensible DM - that's housebeating, uhm, houseruling, though.
There's nothing to indicate any other result regarding the aging question. You get the type and all its traits, and if that includes immunity to aging, you are immune to aging.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 7:14 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No, that's... not how it works. When shifted, you are actually classed as *shifted*. You are not "you", you are your shifted form which is the "you" at the time.
Be a zombie all you want, but when your time is up, you collapse.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 7:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Level 20 druids won't die naturally.
And level 20 monks won't age until they keel over.
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Azrael
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 7:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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TormakSaber wrote: No, that's... not how it works. When shifted, you are actually classed as *shifted*. You are not "you", you are your shifted form which is the "you" at the time.
Be a zombie all you want, but when your time is up, you collapse.
You could always die in front of a necromancer and hope he makes you a zombie? ^^
p.s. I just wana say thanks for all the imput so far, keep it up _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:40 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: No, that's... not how it works. When shifted, you are actually classed as *shifted*.
As this doesn't even refer to the ruleset we're talking about, I call bullsh1t.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:54 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Khaunwalksthisearth wrote: Level 20 druids won't die naturally.
And level 20 monks won't age until they keel over.
A Druid will die when their time is up, they will simply look whatever age they were when they hit level 17.
Same for monks.
Same for shifters. You can't turn into a zombie, holy up in a cave or 1000 years, and pop out looking just like you idd a thousand years ago because you are somehow "immune to aging". The Realms just... don't work like that. You'll die when your base race's a time is up.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:56 AM |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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According to 3.5 anyways, druids become immortal at level 20. I don't know if this holds ground for Amia. But I like it, so it holds ground for me.
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Galenson
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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In the end does it really matter? Amia's not going to be around for an eternity so your characters aren't going to die of old age.
Be happy! Live life with your characters until you decide to make a new one and kill him/her.
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:59 AM |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Galenson wrote: In the end does it really matter? Amia's not going to be around for an eternity so your characters aren't going to die of old age.
Be happy! Live life with your characters until you decide to make a new one and kill him/her.
Err, well it doesn't really matter if you look at it from your perspective, but from mine it does! But that doesn't matter because nothing in this thread is going to change how I do anything because all that I amount to right now is a forum troll!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:00 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Khaunwalksthisearth wrote: According to 3.5 anyways, druids become immortal at level 20. I don't know if this holds ground for Amia. But I like it, so it holds ground for me. Quote: Timeless Body (Ex)
After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place.
Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.
?????
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:01 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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TormakSaber wrote: Same for shifters. You can't turn into a zombie, holy up in a cave or 1000 years, and pop out looking just like you idd a thousand years ago because you are somehow "immune to aging". The Realms just... don't work like that. You'll die when your base race's a time is up.
Have a quote or reference for that? Or are you making it up?
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:01 AM |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Read the 3.5 players handbook. It says at level 20 in the class table that they gain immortality.
I'm talking about druids not monks mayn.
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:04 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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In the 3.5 SRD, timeless body for monks and druids seems to be the same thing.
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:06 AM |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Wait what is the SRD?
It could be that I am for some reason visualizing the 4.0 feats table. I would be suprised if that was the case though because I played 4.0 very briefly.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:08 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The "SRD" is the "system Resource Document". It's the baseline 3.5 material, PHB, DMG, Monster's Manual, Epic Level Handbook, and Psionics Handbook, all oneline.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:10 AM |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Well can someone do me a favor and look up druids in the 4.0 PHB then? Because I KNOW I saw it somewhere that at level 20 they become immortal. Now I'm dying to figure out where.
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Evil-Wizard
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 9:11 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 12:16 PM |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Tormak's right. I have the 3.5 PHB right in front of me.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 12:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 12:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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What about 4.0? I'm already convinced that's a bad dream.
I just went through the 4.0 version I have, and I can't find druids except to say that they'll appear in later versions. Thanks WotC.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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MaliciousSwine
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 12:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: California, USA
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Well that strikes me as bizarre. I wonder if they "patched" it out? Or something? Well, it makes no difference anyways
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Feb 16 2009, 19:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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It would make no sense for druids, anyway. They're all about the cycle of life, an living forever would be an abomination. I'm not well-versed in Celtic folklore, but I believe the idea of a druid simply laying down and passing away into eternal sleep when he knows it's his time comes from way back there. That's what I gleaned from the lyrics and explanation thereof of a Cruachan song, A Druid's Passing. I doubt folk metal is a reliable historical source, but it seems they know their mythology. >_>
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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