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Mr T
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 Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 20:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: England
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Quote: I meant pc's, which are those drow others would actually see and interact with, and would actually affect one's perception of drow.
Good, now how about all the peasants wanting to go to the nine hells when they pass on, as every single demon/devil they encounter is a hot sexy succubus/tiefling on Cordor street corner?
Come to think about it what about kobolds, Orcs etc? There's more good versions of those than evil. At the end of the day the commers perception is influenced by the *majority* of the race not the exceptional individuals. Otherwise we may as well replace the kobold starter quest dialogue with ''that one group of evil kobold stole my blah blah... but all the rest are fine!'' 
Mr T
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Yeh, lets run that farmer outta town for inciting racial violence cause he CLAIMS a kobold killed his sheep! Afterall, we've all seen that good kobold hanging out in cordor so the rest of them cant be bad. In fact, we dont even know if a Kobold DID steal his sheep. Maybe he's just got a thing against kobold.
Seriously...one exceptional individual does not change a society's perception of a people.
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Gunz
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Well, firstly, it's hardly true that there are more surface Drow than underdark Drow. Perhaps, at the moment, it's pretty cut in half, but generally, underdark Drow outnumber. Ask any underdark Drow who has been around for a few years. Generally, there are LARGE numbers of Drow in the underdark. ICly, with pretty much all my characters, including my Eili priestess, they have no issue with people being scared of Drow when they first meet them. They should be, its a smart rule to live by with Drow anywhere on FR. Underdark Drow still abduct surfacers all the time. In fact, I can honestly say I don't go more than a week or two without hearing of someone, seeing someone, or finding someone, who has been abducted by underdark Drow. In any case, welcome to Amia. Adapt and have fun. There's little sense in trying to tell people how to RP their characters because it won't work and won't change much of anything.
In my experience, the racism has either been under done or over done in a lot of cases. I think a part of it is because people see racism as evil. Lets make it clear, racism is NOT evil. The goodliest of goodly's can be racist. Lets be honest with ourselves, we all, not as in our characters but as players, as people, are in some way shape or form bigots or racists. Whether it's knowingly or ignorantly.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Blackdragon12121
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Carter wrote: aurelius311 wrote: Yossarin wrote: Most players are victims of imposing our modern notion of "good" on Amia's fantasy universe. In our media-laden world, we're generally taught that racism is a bad (evil) thing. People playing good or at least non-evil PCs probably hesitate to be openly racist because it doesn't fit their notion of their own alignment. Whether this is a concious choice or an unconcious choice.
I have my own opinions about racism in Amia, but for me it boils down to Amia's players not being prepared for a "hardcore RP" environment that blurs lines or, alternatively, makes ugly distinctions. I think this got lost in the hate, and thats too bad. I think it did. This is precisely my view on it. FR is supposed to be -much- more tolerant than it's contemporary fellows on Earth, but that doesn't mean they're Politically Correct, in our modern sense. Take, for instance, medieval Europe. If you were English, chances are, you hated -everyone-. Africans and Scandinavians were barbarians, Muslims were monsters, the French were asses (this still holds true, incidentally). You hated them all. In Faerun, though, most places get along with most other people of their race, and even most other races. This doesn't mean, however, that they love everyone else, or even that they use logic. Let's take African Americans in place of drow, here. There have been millions of Africans who have done wonderful things. We see great Africans every day. However, there are still many people who consider them horrible, and evil, and disgusting. This even works going back to the 1700s. The black slaves could prove themselves intelligent, and civilized, and all that, and whites saw it every day. Still, though, they considered them stupid animals. It was the way of the times. This holds true the exact same way for drow. The people on Faerun don't necessarily think through "Why do I hate these people", they just do. I just saw this post. Carter...what are you talking about. Thats a pretty race and inflammatory thing to say. "Oh lets take African-Americans in place of drow like they are a blood thirsty, sadistic race". The tone of your post makes African-americans sound innately subpar with only a few exceptions that come somewhat close to (i assume you are talking about white people). Afterall, black people are a cruel race of people that dropped an A bomb or commited genocide of Jewish people.
Real smooth there 
Anyway, back on topic, if we actually apply some real life to amia then the differences we have would be IMO relative to those of Chultan vs Dupari or Mulan. Drow on the otherhand might as well be a monsterous race. Take away their long flowing silver hair, dark skin, their pretty boy look and the fact that many want to have the mystique of "Oh im an outcast, I should be feared and dangerous but still im not like the rest of race" and its no different to playing say a gnoll-mage or whatever someone requested to play a few days ago.
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Zante
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Quote: The people on Faerun don't necessarily think through "Why do I hate these people", they just do.
Which does not make it right.
Racism is evil, how that's even up for discussion is beyond me... Comparing it to how african-americans were threated in the past just kind of underlines the wrongness of racism, in my opinion.
I don't mind ic racism myself, there's plenty of evil and neutrall characters too after all. It bugs me when the players OCC think their character's aren't evil and that it's right, and complain when their characters get persecuted for being wrong. A good character should not be racist. _________________ 
Last edited by Zante on Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:48 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Blackdragon12121 wrote: I just saw this post. Carter...what are you talking about. Thats a pretty race and inflammatory thing to say. "Oh lets take African-Americans in place of drow like they are a blood thirsty, sadistic race". The tone of your post makes African-americans sound innately subpar. Afterall, black people are a cruel race of people that dropped an A bomb or commited genocide of Jewish people. Real smooth there Not at all. That was the colonialistic view of the time, they were savage, brutal, mindless murderers. They had no ability to think for themselves, nor did they have the know-how to create technology such as sophisticated weaponry, and what was considered by the british, conventional housing units.
It's a direct correlation, merely because of the color in the skin, not due to their ACTUAL nature. Carter was merely stating a fact of the past, in allusion to the D'row.
Heck, you think the world is paranoid now about crap? Heck, mathetimatics, geography, astrology and astronomy were considered work of the Black Magic, the Dark Arts, and people who would've made doctors, scientists and mathetimaticians today, would have been burnt at the stake for such affiliations.
John Dee was nearly condemned to death thrice in his life. My point is, the colonists believe that they are BETTERING the other races, so it was with good intent, initially, until they realised their ways weren't sticking with the other races (as they, heaven forbid! Had culture also...), so they narrowed it down to their nature, nothing that nurturing can fix... Damn animals! _________________  'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:47 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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waaayyyy too many good drow. and to have a good alignment should be platinum coined. they are inherently evil and are raised in a drow eat drow world. VERY few should come out of that smiling. Lolthites should be exterminating the good drow wherever they are seen, but they can't because of their numbers. The Lolthites are also not evil enough to do this. it makes me want to make a drow power build and conduct raids left and right to set that mood in. Good drow are like RDDs. They think they can make something that should be unique with it actually being unique, but there are so many unique characters that it is normal. Drizzts should definitely be platinumed, as they skew the way their race should be viewed.
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aurelius311
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: hanging on.
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a third try. FR is not real life. you cannot make comparisons.
_________________
"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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aurelius311 wrote: a third try. FR is not real life. you cannot make comparisons.
Of course you can. That's an absurd argument. The point of comparing two things is the very fact that they're different. You cannot compare two things that are the same, beyond stating that they are the same.
EDIT: However, you may not be able to make very convincing arguments about the game setting, using the real world as your only point of reference. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Carter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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aurelius311 wrote: a third try. FR is not real life. you cannot make comparisons.
You can make comparisons, because that's how the game was created. You cannot create a world without inserting real society and culture into it, or it wouldn't work. FR is very much based on the real world, and therefore real world comparisons are entirely applicable.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Zante wrote: Quote: The people on Faerun don't necessarily think through "Why do I hate these people", they just do. Which does not make it right. Racism is evil, how that's even up for discussion is beyond me... Evil, good ... Black and white. You're clearly using the exact approach that the British used in their colonisation methods. Black, being associated with the devil due to the teachings of the bible, and white being associated with purity, divine grace, a creation of heaven. Black people, therefore, were considered evil.
Ironic that you'd coin Racism as evil, isn't it? _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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aurelius311
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: hanging on.
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then how come everyone who keeps trying to do so is failing miserably? what are the drow like, in real life?
yes, its a society. so yes, there are similarities. But saying drow are race X, or the standard commoner is race Y from period Z, just leads to everyone pointing out in the next 3-5 posts why the example isnt accurate, and is possibly racist IRL, in the case of a few epic fail high school quality short essays.
_________________
"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."
[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling
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Carter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 21:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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aurelius311 wrote: then how come everyone who keeps trying to do so is failing miserably? what are the drow like, in real life?
yes, its a society. so yes, there are similarities. But saying drow are race X, or the standard commoner is race Y from period Z, just leads to everyone pointing out in the next 3-5 posts why the example isnt accurate, and is possibly racist IRL, in the case of a few epic fail high school quality short essays.
It has nothing to do with the example being poor. It has to do with people taking the example as the only way. For instance, in my post, I didn't need to say that drow were African-Americans. I could have said they were Turks, or Communists, or whatever. It's all the same.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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aurelius311 wrote: then how come everyone who keeps trying to do so is failing miserably? what are the drow like, in real life?
yes, its a society. so yes, there are similarities. But saying drow are race X, or the standard commoner is race Y from period Z, just leads to everyone pointing out in the next 3-5 posts why the example isnt accurate, and is possibly racist IRL, in the case of a few epic fail high school quality short essays.
Sun Elves. You can't tell me that they don't represent the ideal white person supermacy that Hitler put in place.
The fact of the matter is, even if the comparissons are wrong, they are comparisons. They are being compared to another similar, yet not the same, content. Hell, even the theory of comparison relates with what is considered Good and Evil, why? Because they are juxtaposed as binary opposites; and therefore you may size up exactly what is considered to be good, within one culture, and what is considered to be good in another culture, compare the two, inadvertently discovering that they are opposing ideals, one will be considered good, the other evil. _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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maglorine
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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SephiraAndy wrote: Halflings, due to their reliance on most other races and general respect for each type's individual 'gifts', makes them the most tolerant race ever. But on Amia, things are seriously messed up (and not necessarily in a negative way).
The hin are considered very racists.....
Firstly, I'll second what BloodnAshes said on page 1 of this thread about the various halfling subraces having different "tolerance" levels which seems to be a point lost on many players of non-hin.
Secondly.........YAY! for general Hin intolerance/distrust of Drow.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Talon
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: Texas, where else?
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Zante wrote: Quote: The people on Faerun don't necessarily think through "Why do I hate these people", they just do. Which does not make it right. Racism is evil, how that's even up for discussion is beyond me... You should read a bit of Ed Greenwood's thoughts (the creator of Forgotten Realms) before whipping out the soap-box. The way Drow are treated has nothing to do with real world racism, civil rights, or ANYTHING else you may care about. Drow are evil. Drow are scary. People generally don't like evil, scary things.
That is simply the way it is. The way Drow are treated (or, should be treated), with fear and hatred and, more often than not, violence, is not political commentary, it is not satire, it is not ANYTHING you seem to think it is. It is simply a part of the world we play in. Please, come to grips with this fact. _________________ 
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Well said Talon.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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HellScourge
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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Blackdragon12121 wrote: Yeh, lets run that farmer outta town for inciting racial violence cause he CLAIMS a kobold killed his sheep! Afterall, we've all seen that good kobold hanging out in cordor so the rest of them cant be bad. In fact, we dont even know if a Kobold DID steal his sheep. Maybe he's just got a thing against kobold.
The sheep shot first, nuff said. ^^ _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
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Zante
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Quote: Drow are evil. Drow are scary.
On amia, most, or at least a lot aren't, despite of how it is in the rest of faerun. With which we come full circle. _________________
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Zante wrote: Quote: Drow are evil. Drow are scary. On amia, most aren't, despite of how it is in the rest of faerun. With which we come full circle. And so that's where people's personal preferences and moral codes fall into place. Some people find it hard to play a very cold blooded, villainous murderer who's life is not considered evil to him, it's just all he knows, survival of the fittest, natural selection.
I will agree however that most aren't, and that is slightly frustrating; but it doesn't stop my character from having extreme prejudice anyway, and sometimes killing those that disrespect him, or carry dubious gear upon them. _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Talon
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: Texas, where else?
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Zante wrote: On amia, most, or at least a lot aren't [evil].
And herein lies the problem, as I already stated.
As much as I love Salvatore, I absolutely, positively hate him for ruining Drow for everyone. _________________
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Talon wrote: Zante wrote: On amia, most, or at least a lot aren't [evil]. And herein lies the problem, as I already stated. As much as I love Salvatore, I absolutely, positively hate him for ruining Drow for everyone. Agreed! You give people an inch, and they take a mile ... Precisely how i felt about enslaving those bastard black people! _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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Zante
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Just something that might be of note for those interested... Valas actually started as a lolthite drow, and spend the first months of his time on amia in house Olath'orbb, he was forced to the surface after getting into a fight with a drow matron's kid daughter. He only heard about Eilistraee once he met Wiggan later, and only joined the grove because it was the only place to accept him at that time. It wasn't anything I planned for, just how the rp happened.
The rp and history of amia is already there and can't be ignored. I know that anywhere on faerun, things would be different, but Amia has a long history of things being a certain way. Saying that drow should be evil, even if true, is pointless at this point, as you can't simply retcon it all.
That's pretty much my point, I am not saying amia is cannon, or lore-correct. It's not, but it hasn't been for a long time, and likely won't be. There is little point in getting upset over it.
_________________
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Zante wrote: That's pretty much my point, I am not saying amia is cannon, or lore-correct. It's not, but it hasn't been for a long time, and likely won't be. There is little point in getting upset over it.
That's precisely why i play characters that are bound to the lore of Faerun, and work as such. Sun elves are aplenty at the moment, and it's quite nice, alot of them are playing to their nurtured purpose, rather than want a seperate, more humane lifestyle. It's quite interesting.
But! I have to run off to work! Be back in twelve hours! _________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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how far does cordor's tolerance go?
drow, goblins, orcs, orogs, kobolds, tieflings ... how about vampires and drider? whats the difference? they are inherently evil, but the majority could become friendly! *huggles the world*
in a world full of violence (99% of players kill hundreds of sentient NPCs) why is it so bad that one group hates another who happens to be players and not NPCs? people who make drow should expect to be hated. People who come in contact with drow should assume they are like the majority of drow, evil.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Racism is indeed a cruel act - because it is judging someone off of a difference that does not exist.
This is why I Hate the term IC, when it's speciesism. The better way to put it would be this. If Aliens came to earth - would it be racist to treat them differently? (Positively /or/ Negatively.) It wouldn't, because racism as far as we (as earth, humans, are concerned) is a distinction between races - not species. African Americans are still human, Caucasians are still human, Asians are still human, etc. It's immoral to judge someone differently when they're the same as you are.
However.
That does not apply to DnD. Because the differences -are- solid, tangible, things. Elves are heavily emotional creatures by sheer nature that are haughty, arrogant, and by simply being 'them' are different in mind and body. Treating them differently isn't cruel or evil, because it's not justified. A human seeing them wth animousity, uncertainty, fear, or hate, isn't unjusified - because it's something they don't know, or something they simply cnanot understand.
I could go on about that for ages.
As for the 'Most Drow are Good' comment. That's incorrect. The better term is 'Most Drow on the surface are Good'. You don't have access to the numbers, nor the tools, to make an assumption - I watch the playerbase pretty frequently and see how big the scales are. The Lolthites outnumber the Eilistraeens as pure playerbases, and by -far- as an IC grouping (Since the lolthites have an entire city full of NPC Evil Drow, wheras the Shrine has four I think). Also of note, the Evil Drow are far more active (and therefore, noticable), than the Eilistraeens. Evil drow raid, pillage, make a name for thesemvesl, capture, torture, and generally remind people why they're evil.
Eilistraeens ponce about Cordor giggling, or, alternatively, remain introverted in their Shrine. Neither of these promote 'Goodness' but instead promote indifference/neutrality. Therefore, most people are likely to percieve Drow as either evil (seeing the active drow), or 'unbiased and chaotic' (seeing the disaligned, inactive, drow)
Racism isn't good, nor is it evil. At worst, it's chaotic, since it lacks balance and honor to it (To judge someone on a factor they cannot control, instead of judging them on their (de)merits and their action), and even then, it matters on why. It isn't evil for a city to slaughter drow on sight, because it isn't an evil action to defend yourself from a percieved, and justified, threat. It may not be the 'Right' thing, but it's not evil or good as far as Faerûn, or the Dungeons and Dragons Alignment System is concerned.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Zante
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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lathandier wrote:
That's precisely why i play characters that are bound to the lore of Faerun, and work as such. !
Bound to the lore of faerun = ignoring the lore of amia = ignorant character. _________________
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Precisely!
That's why i don't understand it when Meldrium comes up to a D'row, spell components ready, demanding that the Drow state their ... Blah, blah, blah to find out who their allegiance lies with, and even then is still insanely skeptical and wary about them -- And people who are playing the surface Drow get upset!
If you're going to play such unique characters, do your research and be prepared for the worst... In lore, there are some cases of Sun Elves killing first and asking questions later when spotting Drow, simply because they can't take the risk.
_________________ 'Ze Cock! Ze Cock ist shtill aut der!! Kapitulation feiern - NEIN DANKE!'
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Faerûn Lore = Amian Lore. Remember. Amia is a part of Faerûn - they aren't two seperate entites. Geographically and Culturally, Amia has its unique points beyond that of its mainland cousins, however by all rights any outsider coming from the area is far from ignorant to have the views as prominent throughout the region.
Faerûn Lore still applies, and by far it's where most things are going to come from. The average peasant (even Cordorian ones, due to the actions of (surprise surprise, evil drow)) is going to be afraid of (and therefore, wish to be rid of to defend themselves) Drow, Tieflings, Necromancers, and Followers of Evil Gods. Aventurers aren't the norm, and by all rights they're their own classification, but most adventurers weren't born with a sword in their hand.
I'd love to see more ordinary PCs with racial prejudices to make the setting a bit more appropriate. I'm sick of Eary being the only one with his head on straight, keehee.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Rotkreuz
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Location: In America!
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I agree with the huggling in the city and such. It seems people just make Drow just to be Black skinned elves.
And dangit, We elected Barack Obama! The Race Walls have been torn down!!
_________________
Oh, whoops! Oh! I dropped my monster condom that I use for my magnum dong.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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blackvswhite wrote: how far does cordor's tolerance go?
drow, goblins, orcs, orogs, kobolds, tieflings ... how about vampires and drider? whats the difference? they are inherently evil, but the majority could become friendly! *huggles the world*
in a world full of violence (99% of players kill hundreds of sentient NPCs) why is it so bad that one group hates another who happens to be players and not NPCs? people who make drow should expect to be hated. People who come in contact with drow should assume they are like the majority of drow, evil.
Cordor's Tolerance doesn't go that far anymore.
Drow = They're exiled, and even those allowed into the city (Due to the amount of evils that somehow got Signet Rings, and proved that drow are EVUL) have managed to prove to the Cordorian People that Drow are a Bad, Evil, and Malicious Race that shouldn't b in their city.
Tieflings = Met with significant animousity, and a small amount of fear as they -are- the children of demons and devils, the people who will steal your soul and torture you for an eternity ni Baator or the Abyss.
Orcs = They're thugs, and seen as barbarians. They're probably lowest on the "OH MY GOD, AHH" totem pole. Still met with animousity though.
Half-Orcs = People are skeptical towards them, but not afraid, since almost all of them (both PC and NPC) take after their human elders.
Orogs = Hated due to their actions and behaviour, simply. They're seen as barbarians that shouldn't be allowed into the city anymore.
Kobolds/Goblins = Annoying little runts that should be tossed out, as far as Cordor is concerned, due to the actions of the majority (even before including NPC), and of course.. They're monsters.
That said, due to Cordor's nature, the people of Cordor grant the 'benefit of the doubt' in regards to their /actions/. They won't do a thing until they step out of line, in which case Cordor (Commoner and Guard alike) are on them like a kleptomaniac on a shiny object.
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The Peacock
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Location: Patrollink ze borderz! Wo ist das Hahn!?
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Nor can you say that a character who has morals that are indelible to their upbringing and nurturing "ignorant" ... Especially when that race are of the Elves, a Faerun race that is proud, arrogant, culturally inclined and superior to all other races (in their speculum).
Sun Elves and other elves are weavers of the Art, that is what their prominence is. The Art being magic, naturally. Humans see such things, and naturally being a superstitious race, are quite skeptical themselves of Elves and their moral codes (being completely different to the tolerance of humans). I feel we must draw a sharp division between what is Magic, and what is Superstition, as i feel this is where my argument of ignorance in Lore based characters (mine specifically) lies. Magic is about knowledge, the study of hidden orces - spiritual as well as physical - that rule nature, and are governed by the weave. Superstition exploits ignorance.
My character knows that to the humans, his actions are considered wrong; but the humans have no place to judge, for they know nothing of the elven way. That is not ignorance.
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xdrone561x
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 22:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Location: in the factories and mills, in the shipyards and mines
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in before lock
feel free to bash on my drow anytime you see him. But he bashes back just to warn ya 
drow should be treated as evil, its amusing to me how many can walk around freely as long as they say "im a good drow and dont like lolth" _________________ 
siggy by qualiz<3
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Ideally, Good Drow should be doing what they can to prove they're good and they're to be socially accepted. Hugging, kissing, and otherwise being Sharessans in public doesn't help their cause too much. Proving that Drow are good, or rather, have the capacity to be good.
Meanwhile Evil Drow are too busy being evil to really need to try and persuade people of the fact. They're doing that already.
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Carter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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WonWon wrote: Ideally, Good Drow should be doing what they can to prove they're good and they're to be socially accepted. Hugging, kissing, and otherwise being Sharessans in public doesn't help their cause too much. Proving that Drow are good, or rather, have the capacity to be good.
Meanwhile Evil Drow are too busy being evil to really need to try and persuade people of the fact. They're doing that already.
This is what I would like to see more of, too. I would love to see the roles reversed from what they are now. Currently, it's on the shoulders of the elves (for example) to prove that a drow is evil. It makes much more logical (and lore-accurate) sense for the drow to have to prove he is good. Why? Because drow are an evil race. Most are evil, and most of the ones who aren't evil aren't good. It's much safer for everyone if drow are assumed to be evil.
This would by how the current Winyan population deals with the "vile races". They assume they're evil. They do accept good drow, but it's something very rarely proven. Most drow instantly become threatening, insulting, and violent when confronted, instead of trying to prove that they shouldn't be slain. That's not the fault of the elves. Drow are evil, for the most part, and are thusly treated as such.
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aurelius311
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: hanging on.
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Dammit Uce, you beat me to my next point. Races and species are different.
Drow arent elves arent hin arent dwarves arent humans arent orcs, etc etc. We are all humans.
That is why you just cant compare it to real life. Your aliens example is much much much more accurate. And you can bet your ass we would not be huggling them.
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Last edited by aurelius311 on Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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*thumbs up*
BTW. Just because I'm an alcoholic, doesn't make me Ruce. That was me
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Carter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:12 PM |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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aurelius311 wrote: Dammit Uce, you beat me to my next point. Races and species are different.
Drow arent elves arent hin arent dwarves arent humans arent orcs, etc etc. We are all humans.
That is why you just cant compare it to real life. Your aliens example is much much much more accurate. And you can bet your ass we would not be huggling them.
The human subgroups comparisons actually works perfectly taken from a contemporary standpoint, which is how it was meant to be viewed. the Forgotten Realms are not based off of modern Europe, they're based off medieval Europe, so a comparison which uses medieval European thought tends to work excellently. Africans/Turks/Vikings weren't considered the same race. They were a different species entirely. Therefore, the comparison works.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:14 PM |
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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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The comparison works when you consider it purely factually/objectively, yeah, but no one in today's age (such as posters in this thread) can actually percieve it like that since the concept seems so very alien and impossible - to consider someone of a different color not a human? Yeah.
Thus the ALiens example, since that makes a mental relevance to today.
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Ramika
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Posted: Fri, Jan 23 2009, 23:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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Carter wrote: Wyjyn wrote: Honestly, I miss the days when the Shrine was really busy with Im'kiira and Jud playing heaps. Fun times being hated so much as qirlan:D The Shrine isn't busy because most of the Eilistraeens nowadays seem really intent on yelling at you in tells if you don't hug their drow.>.> Im'kiira was High Priestess for a short time, and believe it or not, it was her own Shrine members that caused her to leave, not the hate of outsiders. OOCly, I enjoyed playing the High Priestess until events that I won't discuss caused me to quit. In any case. Zante wrote: Quote: The people on Faerun don't necessarily think through "Why do I hate these people", they just do. Which does not make it right. Racism is evil, how that's even up for discussion is beyond me... Comparing it to how african-americans were threated in the past just kind of underlines the wrongness of racism, in my opinion. I don't mind ic racism myself, there's plenty of evil and neutrall characters too after all. It bugs me when the players OCC think their character's aren't evil and that it's right, and complain when their characters get persecuted for being wrong. A good character should not be racist. Using Kiira again as an example, she doesn't take it personally that people hate her, despite the fact she's not even Torilian. Our concept of racism is evil, sure. But it's not unusual, nor should it be looked at that way, for people on Amia to be racist or distrustful. Even my character Caelianna, and Im'kiira, have their issues with people. WonWon wrote: Faerûn Lore = Amian Lore. Remember. Amia is a part of Faerûn - they aren't two seperate entites. Geographically and Culturally, Amia has its unique points beyond that of its mainland cousins, however by all rights any outsider coming from the area is far from ignorant to have the views as prominent throughout the region.
Faerûn Lore still applies, and by far it's where most things are going to come from. <snip to shorten>
I'd love to see more ordinary PCs with racial prejudices to make the setting a bit more appropriate. I'm sick of Eary being the only one with his head on straight, keehee.
I tend to agree. It seems as if people forget that Amia is still Faerunian. People come from the mainland and other islands with predjudices, anger, xenophobia... And people are surprised when someone actually RPs that?
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Yurell
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Wow, this topic certainly sprang up in two hours while was sleeping ...
In my view, there is a small amount of racism present, and it makes perfect sense to be racist. But since there are so many races bundled together in 'small' population centres like Cordor, one has to learn to get along (or not, depending on how liked one wishes to be).
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:45 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I didn't read this topic, but my feeling summed up:
"Racism" doesn't exist as a concept like you believe, it is simply a part of life. Elves are snobby, Drow are baby eaters, humans are diverse and orcs pillage. It's what they do because Ao Says So.
My Chaotic Good PC is a "racist bastard" at the best of times, and a "bigoted fucktard" at the worst of times.
I defy anyone to tell me he is not CG.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: I didn't read this topic, but my feeling summed up:
"Racism" doesn't exist as a concept like you believe, it is simply a part of life. Elves are snobby, Drow are baby eaters, humans are diverse and orcs pillage. It's what they do because Ao Says So.
My Chaotic Good PC is a "racist bastard" at the best of times, and a "bigoted (censored)" at the worst of times.
I defy anyone to tell me he is not CG.
Yup, in FR that's the way the cookie crumbles
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يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Carter
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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TormakSaber wrote: I didn't read this topic, but my feeling summed up:
"Racism" doesn't exist as a concept like you believe, it is simply a part of life. Elves are snobby, Drow are baby eaters, humans are diverse and orcs pillage. It's what they do because Ao Says So.
My Chaotic Good PC is a "racist bastard" at the best of times, and a "bigoted (censored)" at the worst of times.
I defy anyone to tell me he is not CG.
This is actually my thoughts exactly. As Ron and Tormak have both said more elegantly than I did, the different races, or species rather, on Amia are not inferior or superior like whites once thought of blacks, or the Japanese thought of Chinese. They -are- physically and mentally different.
Africans were considered evil. Drow -are- evil. It's not a matter of "not understanding the culture". Their culture is evil, pure and simple. There are those who aren't evil, but they're the exception, not the rule. Thus, it's not only smarter to assume all drow are evil and to make exceptions for the good ones, but actually foolish not to.
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Jes
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:54 AM |
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DM
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole
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Wow. Yeah. Racism doesn't exist in FR. I mean...unless Halruuan's started hating on Mulans and Chultans or something like that. Moon Elves hating on all Sun Elves is about as close as it gets. But even so, people in FR shouldn't even know the word "racism", since it doesn't fit, at all. The world of Faerun is the way it is, and that's all.
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DarkAngelGirl
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:56 AM |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Okay so racism was not the correct term in the title of this post, but you all get my meaning.
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Carter
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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DarkAngelGirl wrote: Okay so racism was not the correct term in the title of this post, but you all get my meaning.
Quite so. Let's not argue semantics.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 0:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Yup ... rampant xenophobia ftw.
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Jes
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 1:23 AM |
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DM
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole
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Oh. I was talking about all the times my elves get called racists.
Other than that, yes! Xenophobia is part of FR. *nods* Drow on the Surface should be used to it and should know how to react to it.
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Troxa
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Posted: Sat, Jan 24 2009, 1:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Location: Forgotten City
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I dont think there is any good excuse really, its a game and everyone wants to be special!
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