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//Starts at the next reset on A (1hr, 15min) as of the time of this post.//

Last edited by BloodNAshes on Sun, Dec 07 2008, 4:52 AM, edited 1 time in total.

*Ukre decides to simply make the ballot issues public now as the main meeting has already occurred and he's tired of writing up dozens of slips*

//
If you missed the meeting today and have a Dale resident PC you can cast your vote here on the measures suggested there. Please limit it to two Dale residents PCs only and vote as your characters would. You have until the end of Wednesay, Dec. 10 (4 days as of this post) to cast your vote. The measures will be listed and described briefly below. Give a vote of aye, nay or pass. If you've already voted at the meeting, don't vote here too unless you missed a vote for an issue. If you have questions PM me or Bobo Underhill.

(EDIT: Dec 10 is Wed. obviously, sorry about that.)

PLEASE LIMIT THIS THREAD TO IC VOTING ON THE BELOW ONLY PLEASE!!
//

MEASURE #1
Should The Fist merge with the Town Militia as one unit?
-Argument For: Having two separate guard units creates divisiveness, power blocks, and ineffeciency.
-Argument Against: The Fist has proven its value as a separate unit and there's no real need for change, as things are fine now as they are.

MEASURE #2
Should public service be required for voting rights on Dale issues?
-Argument For: Those who risk and sacrifice more should be those who decide public policy issues. They will also have a better knowledge of the issues, being involved with them daily.
-Argument Against: All should be considered equal and have one vote, regardless of whether they can or choose to serve the town. Voting rights to a few will promote elitism.

MEASURE #3
Should elders be able to be elected to Mayor Nof's Town Council?
-Argument For: Certain citizens who prove their worth should be able to have as much influence over the town as the mayor and his council, should the town itself agree.
-Argument Against: Creating a potentially larger council removes renders it less effecient to deal with its main task, to decide things quickly in case of an emergency.

MEASURE #4
Should only Dale residents be allowed to do business in the Dale and be charged a small income tax to go to the town's treasury?
-Argument For: This measure promotes community mindendess over mere profiteering and also allows the town to become less dependent upon outside trade.
-Argument Against: This will hurt trade that already happens by restricting it to residents only and taxing it, rather than increasing the town's wealth.

MEASURE #5
Should an adventuring fund be established to aid new adventurers in return for donating some of their treasure found back to the Dale at a later date?
-Argument For: This measure will take advantage of the uncommon number of adventurers in the Dale to increase the town's wealth and also ensure said adventurers receive proper gear and training.
-Argument Against: There isn't any really sure way to ensure the signees pay up as their contract states and the Dale could potentially be taken for much money by enacting this fund.

MEASURE #6
Should a culture test on hin, dwarven, gnome, etc. history, lore and custom be required by folks applying for public service, such as the militia?
-Argument For: This measure ensures those signing up for service are in it for the right reasons, mainly to preserve the Dale as a place for all right-sized folk and their ways and not simply power.
-Argument Against: Knowledge of custom and such has no real bearing on effectiveness in public sevice, especially guard work, and otherwise good recruits may be disallowed from serving.

MEASURE #7
Should supernatural summons, magical castings, worn helmets, and bared weapons be *disallowed* to all non-militia members within the Dale?
-Argument For: This makes the job of the guard much easier through simply disallowing these things de facto, rather than having to ask specifically, and also creates a more peaceful atmosphere.
-Argument Against: The Dale doesn't need more set in stone laws creating "red tape" and simply wearing a helmet is a poor disguise for potential mischief-makers anyway.

MEASURE #8
Should all evil underdark races be checked and disallowed at the gate, which shall be locked now, without a special pass?
-Argument For: These races have proven they're trouble time and time again, and there's no reason not to lock the gate and make the job of the guard easier. Having to throw them out repeatedly makes the Dale look worse than simply barring them entirely.
-Argument Against: Locked gates make the Dale look unhospitable and furthermore the guard can handle their job fine as it is without needing the gate to be actually locked, should a member of the above races seek to cause trouble.

Nina casts her ballot:

Quote:

Measure 1: Aye

Measure 2: Pass

Measure 3: Nay

Measure 4: Nay

Measure 5: Pass

Measure 6: Nay

Measure 7: Aye

Measure 8: Aye *she draws a star next to this one*

A ballot is left, with a small gravy stain on the lower left corner.

Quote:

Measure 1: Aye

Measure 2: Aye

Measure 3: Aye

Measure 4: Aye

Measure 5: Aye

Measure 6: Nay

Measure 7: Aye

Measure 8: Aye

It's signed (to the right of the stain) Fink Dallyknock

Last edited by Estatica on Sun, Dec 07 2008, 4:35 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

Measure 1: Nay

Measure 2: Nay

Measure 3: Pass

Measure 4: Nay

Measure 5: Nay

Measure 6: Pass

Measure 7: Nay

Measure 8: Nay

Alisan Writes out her note and slips it into the ballot box.

Benki casts a ballot for the last two measures that he missed with help from Bemmi.

#7: Yes

#8: No

*Nick filled in his absentee ballott before leaving town*

MEASURE #1
Should The Fist merge with the Town Militia as one unit?
-Argument For: Having two separate guard units creates divisiveness, power blocks, and ineffeciency.
-Argument Against: The Fist has proven its value as a separate unit and there's no real need for change, as things are fine now as they are.

YES

MEASURE #2
Should public service be required for voting rights on Dale issues?
-Argument For: Those who risk and sacrifice more should be those who decide public policy issues. They will also have a better knowledge of the issues, being involved with them daily.
-Argument Against: All should be considered equal and have one vote, regardless of whether they can or choose to serve the town. Voting rights to a few will promote elitism.

NO

MEASURE #3
Should elders be able to be elected to Mayor Nof's Town Council?
-Argument For: Certain citizens who prove their worth should be able to have as much influence over the town as the mayor and his council, should the town itself agree.
-Argument Against: Creating a potentially larger council removes renders it less effecient to deal with its main task, to decide things quickly in case of an emergency.

YES

MEASURE #4
Should only Dale residents be allowed to do business in the Dale and be charged a small income tax to go to the town's treasury?
-Argument For: This measure promotes community mindendess over mere profiteering and also allows the town to become less dependent upon outside trade.
-Argument Against: This will hurt trade that already happens by restricting it to residents only and taxing it, rather than increasing the town's wealth.

PASS - I think any and all smallfolk should be able to sell goods (Not sure how to answer this one)

MEASURE #5
Should an adventuring fund be established to aid new adventurers in return for donating some of their treasure found back to the Dale at a later date?
-Argument For: This measure will take advantage of the uncommon number of adventurers in the Dale to increase the town's wealth and also ensure said adventurers receive proper gear and training.
-Argument Against: There isn't any really sure way to ensure the signees pay up as their contract states and the Dale could potentially be taken for much money by enacting this fund.

NO

MEASURE #6
Should a culture test on hin, dwarven, gnome, etc. history, lore and custom be required by folks applying for public service, such as the militia?
-Argument For: This measure ensures those signing up for service are in it for the right reasons, mainly to preserve the Dale as a place for all right-sized folk and their ways and not simply power.
-Argument Against: Knowledge of custom and such has no real bearing on effectiveness in public sevice, especially guard work, and otherwise good recruits may be disallowed from serving.

NO

MEASURE #7
Should supernatural summons, magical castings, worn helmets, and bared weapons be *disallowed* to all non-militia members within the Dale?
-Argument For: This makes the job of the guard much easier through simply disallowing these things de facto, rather than having to ask specifically, and also creates a more peaceful atmosphere.
-Argument Against: The Dale doesn't need more set in stone laws creating "red tape" and simply wearing a helmet is a poor disguise for potential mischief-makers anyway.

NO

MEASURE #8
Should all evil underdark races be checked and disallowed at the gate, which shall be locked now, without a special pass?
-Argument For: These races have proven they're trouble time and time again, and there's no reason not to lock the gate and make the job of the guard easier. Having to throw them out repeatedly makes the Dale look worse than simply barring them entirely.
-Argument Against: Locked gates make the Dale look unhospitable and furthermore the guard can handle their job fine as it is without needing the gate to be actually locked, should a member of the above races seek to cause trouble.[/quote]

PASS - I'm not sure the point of this Measure

// Sorry for the OOC, but thanks for organising and creating the meeting, BloodNAshes

*Suzy casts her ballot, nearly reluctantly, along with a note of apology for her unexcused absence from the meeting*

1. Nay

2. Nay

3. Aye

4. Pass, on account of unknown context*

5. Nay

6. Aye

7. Aye**

8. Nay

*She notes on a couple of things before completing her ballot*

*I didn't understand whether this meant general trade, or something in the realm of Bendir market stalls. The stalls had been mentioned in a previous meeting, and it was brought up that only Dale citizens would be allowed to use them.

**Where as I highly agree that bared weapons should be restricted to militia/Fist personnel as this would discourage more radical people from drawing weapons for unnecessary reasons, I disagree on the barring of helmets. It's not that hard to recognize voice, clothing, body build, tattoos or scars of anyone worth remembering, and in my eyes it's not worth enforcing.

I also would like to apologize for missing the meeting in the first place. I was unexcused, and had every intention of making it. I just lost track of time. I do have some notable input on some of these issues, but I may have lost the chance to discuss them when I missed the meeting.

Goranin takes his ballot and makes each choice after a minute of thought.

Quote:

Measure 1: Nay
Measure 2: Aye
Measure3: Nay
Measure 4: Nay
Measure 5: Aye
Measure 6: Nay
Measure 7: Aye
Measure 8: Aye.

Taking a seat near the marketsquare he says to himself:
I must pay more attention to the time I spend traveling.

BloodNAshes wrote:

*Ukre finalizes the time for the meeting and posts it in the Town Hall tacked under the old notice, and also leaves absentee slips in all resident's mail cubbyholes should they not be able to attend but want to vote.*

//Well since no one has said anything else, I suppose it'll be around 19:00-20:00 GMT *this* Saturday the 6th.

Please vote on the absentee ballot here, if there's any chance you won't be able to come but would like your Dale PC to have a say, in the following fashion:
Measure 1: Yes
Measure 2: No
Measure 3: Pass
etc.

With pass being a no-vote of course. Please also try to *vote as your character would* and limit your votes to up to two Dale resident PCs only if you're participating. Thanks.//

Derry sees the notice too late, the meeting passed him by. He grabs an absentee ballot, but wonders what measures he's voting on. He goes in search of another hin who attended the meeting to fill him in.

//I read the entire post but don't see any mention of the 3 Measures. Wanna clue me in?

Nob fills in the ballott and dumps it into the voting urn.

Quote:

Measure 1: Don't know.

Measure 2: Everyone should have a vote!

Measure 3: Yes!

Measure 4: No.

Measure 5: Yes!

Measure 6: Yes!

Measure 7: No!

Measure 8: No! Everyone forgets svirfs!

//the measures and the arguments for and against are posted on the Absentee ballot post.

A disheveled Lyle puts up the following notice

The militia and the Fist will in all likelihood be fused together in the near future. The fate of this board is unknown.

If you can't find Captain Torrowfire, try either Cordor of Wharftown.

Derry Swiftkick reads the ballot measures and responds as follows:

Measure 1: blank

Measure 2: NO

Measure 3: blank

Measure 4: YES

Measure 5: NO

Measure 6: YES

Measure 7: YES

Measure 8: NO

//Last day to vote so get in a say while you can.

A imprinted message on a large oak leaf is left pinned to the board in Bendir Dale

I, Willow Maynare, Druid of the Oak Father from the Oakmist Vale, am commissioning the construction of an idol in Bendir Dale, behind the Inn, for the Green Sister, Sheela Peryroyl. I will be taking small donations of anywhere up to five thousand crowns from any person willing to support the creation of this idol to honor the Hin god of nature and song. I can usually be found in the Oakmist Vale, the Forest it self, or Bendir Dale. Send a letter to me or simply seek me out if you would like to join our cause in honoring the balance and the arts through he creation of this idol to the Green Sister.

Thank you for your time and may the Oak Father and Green Sister bless you all,

Willow Maynare
Druid from the Oakmist Vale

*Ukre posts the vote results in the town hall, along with the following "disclaimer"*:
"These votes dun't count any that gots turn'd inta tha mayor 'is-self, so le's wait fer 'im ta be makin' tha buhlow all uhfishul-like."

MEASURE #1 RESULTS
Ayes: 16
Nays: 3
-PASSED

MEASURE #2 RESULTS
Ayes: 6
Nays: 16
-REJECTED

MEASURE #3 RESULTS
Ayes: 12
Nays: 5
-PASSED

MEASURE #4 RESULTS
Ayes: 17
Nays: 5
-PASSED

MEASURE #5 RESULTS
Ayes: 14
Nays: 7
-PASSED

MEASURE #6 RESULTS
Ayes: 18
Nays: 5
-PASSED

MEASURE #7 RESULTS
Ayes: 11
Nays: 11
-UNDECIDED*

MEASURE #8 RESULTS
Ayes: 7
Nays: 16
-REJECTED

*"Think we be needin' anuther meetin' fer discussin' this ishoo..."

After a day or two to let everyone see them, they are removed by Cindle, and replaced with the following note:

Thanks to everyone for voting! These will be put before the council so they can cast their votes.

-Cindle

*Finally, a statue of my deity to be built, she thinks to herself.*
I pledge 5000 coins for this endeavour.
~Prescia Gemfinder.

I, Johanna Hardingdale of the Harlequins of Brandobaris, am proposing a festival named Brandofest - The Festival of Misadventure.

If you believe you could benefit from holding a stall or some form of entertainment please contact me as soon as possible.

I am looking for food stalls, adventurer gear merchants, entertainers (music, comedy, dance, drama), security and guides.

If you are interested in helping out to make it a jolly good time for all come and find me in the Dale or leave a message for me.

*The notice is signed by Johanna and ended with a doodle of a jester's hat and harlequin mask*

The board is taken down, and one final notice is put up:

The Fist and Militia will be merging, and the lay out of our board adjusted. It's been an honor serving with all of you, and keep an eye out for future developments and announcements.

-Captain Torrowfire

Company Information: Gemfinder Corp. (founded 1325 DR by Toto Gemfinder) is a halfling-owned group of companies based in the Great Dale which deals in retail, banking, transportation, property, security, entertainment, among others.

Administration
Regional Director(Amia): Prescia Gemfinder
Executive Secretary to the Regional Director: Belladonna

Associated Companies
The Gem of the Dale: Crafting and Retail
Shield of the Centurion: Security and Escort Services
TBA: Island Guide and Information
TBA: Hin Dance Academy

The notice is taken down and a new is put up.

Thank you, to all who contributed to the construction of the Idol. The building is now complete and I know that for many of us, we couldn't be happier.

Willow

Last edited by Jehran on Sat, Jan 10 2009, 10:55 AM, edited 2 times in total.

*Madock puts a brand new copy of Ukre's book in the school house freshly bound and in a neat hand it has been reorganized to put similar sections together, a close inspection would note that nothing was removed from the book*

The Big Book of Small Folk

*A second book is put in the school house this one has a note on it asking for more submissions to be sent to Madock to be added to the book*

Dale Tales

Note: This is not okay to pass off as an IC book. It's compiled OOC information and not IC at all. Use it only to help you at an OOC level, it does not exist ICly. - DM Gunz

From looking over the stickies I have noticed that the militia is an exact copy of the old Bendir Fist.

As the Fist had merged with the town's militia I would have thought that the infrastructure of the forces would have undergone a major reconstruction.

Was a merger of Fist and militia just code for militia becoming redundant? If not then who are all the NPCs in militia uniform out front and in training etc.?

Does the IC militia roster need a rethink?
Also, will uniforms be handed out to ex-Fist-but-now-militia for use when on duty?

You make some good points.

I have a couple of suggestions:

1) Named NPC's be added to the rosters.
Jayek Gren
Skit Gwil
Holl Silvereye
Tak Rosen
The steatlthy guy right in the square whose name escapes me.

Might also be a good idea to have the 6 un-named militia guards outside town (two outside the gate, two with Skit, two with Holl) and the drill sargeant named. The un-named recruits can probably stay un-named. They don't need convos or anything, just names.

2) Have a class named "Divine" or somesuch which would include any PC or NPC with a MAJORITY of levels in a Divine Class (Clerics, Paladins, Druids). That would include Jayek Gren, Sugrin, and Okra and anyone else I may not know about.

No, I just haven't added in the NPCs yet. I have full intention to move them in there.

Clerics and Druid would both slip into the healers, where as paladins would go primarily into the warrior's section.

Also, PC militia members need to send me a message because I couldn't find an actual roster of them.

I'm not sure Jayek et. al. are really militia, apart from the ones guarding the border. Though I think the border guards (especially the named ones) at least should have a mention. I personally feel they deserve placeholders above the average Fist member.

The suggestion on Divine Class fits more than healer. Druids and Clerics aren't the only class that can heal.. but are among the ones that do it magically. The current title of Healer implies people that heal.. but the classification explicitly describes it to be spellcasters so that causes confusion.

Righto, will change I suppose, though I still loathe to put paladins and such out of warrior classification.

There are actually a few NPCS associated with the militia including Ritty, Tak and even Fendel.

EDIT: Changed the healer classification to better fit what I'm going for. Please check it.

On uniforms: I don't think so, actually. People can design their own if they want. What I was thinking, though were the personalized badges. If any one has an idea for the design/descripion of 'em, that'd be great.

Personally I can see Paladins go either way. Primarily they're warrior types but in terms of becoming militia, it'd depend on whatever position they'd like to or are qualified to fill

True enough, but most paladins are arguably just fighters with some divine powers and a limited spellcasting ability thrown in. Their fighting styles don't differ too greatly, and their healing power isn't that high enough to make a huge difference in a fight.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

On uniforms: I don't think so, actually. People can design their own if they want. What I was thinking, though were the personalized badges. If any one has an idea for the design/descripion of 'em, that'd be great.

The militia have a uniform. As part of the militia, wouldn't PCs need them? Or are PC classes exempt?

Another reason is whenever people pop in to cause grief, seeing someone in uniform will instantly realise authority rather than keeping on pushing buttons, so to speak.

Well, thing about it is I always imagined that, rather than force coffers to pay for uniforms to outfit somewhat wealthy 'adventuring' members, they would just be encouraged to provide/alter their own armor. After all, it's not the Cordor Guard, it's a hamlet militia and the stuff adventurer's wear is generally better than the stuff they'd get any ways.

Armour for protection is one thing, but it's more of a question of consistency. Don't you think the other militia might rather something other than a general issue chest plate?

Sure. The unnamed militia, Skit and Holl have standard plates, but Tak, Fendel, Dirk, Ritty, Jayek and etc don't.

And a badge would be more cost-efficient if someone can already provide their own armor.

That sounds to me more like you don't want have to have other armour that makes you lose all the uber features of your current gear.
I understand that'll be a problem and possibly make characters function a little bit worse than they could be.. but if losing uber gear is a problem, why have such grueling tests like *naked bear wrestling?

* I made that one up but seems plausible

IC, it makes sense for the Dale to ask militia members to supply their own gear. The Dale isn't super rich, they don't want to have to put aside funds for the members. And the members, as adventurers, simply don't need separate armor.

But Bobo's said this already.

The members as adventurers don't need it: true. But adventurers as militia should require it.

The issue of the dale not being able to afford armour for recruits is nonsense. The forges are efficient and enough revenue easily comes their way. As an adventurers hub, Bendir Dale would have access to so much quick cash. That aside from any shady deals Nof might be operating with other parties.

Cordor being a huge settlement and Kohlingen being a mecca for most holy types makes them richer than Bendir Dale but thats not to say Bendir dale can't shell out for 20 more standard chestplates and shields.

But, as Bobo mentioned, the NPCs don't have a standardized uniform either and...*sighs*

Honestly, I think that if you want something like this to happen, it's the kind of thing to be brought up in an IC meeting because it's IC change that would affect a lot of characters.

I thought everyone jumped at the chance to wear the fist uniform.

The reason people like Fendel aren't wearing a uniform is because when standing at the bar he's working as a barman. Not as militia. But when it's his time to fight for Bendir Dale I'm certain he'd gear up appropriately.

This is not an issue I'd bring up IC is mainly because I'd have to make a character that cares.

Johanna doesn't give a hoot what the militia do or don't do.

Nah, no one jumped at it. People just adjusted their colors/clothing.

Can't they do that militia too?

And actually, people didn't adjust their clothing that much to my knowledge. At the very least, they weren't specifically asked to. Lyle gave them cloaks he himself bought, but beyond that, Fist member weren't required to be in certain colors

Coming back off the tangent, what I'm getting at, other than aesthetics, is the sense of PC awareness to go with the new authoritarian militia-fist.

Psychologically players have a tendency to have a blind spot for NPC guards. I know I've totally forgotten the presence of NPCs as have many others. It's only natural to. Having PC militia in uniform is a reminder of Bendir Dale's major increase in law enforcement to players and their characters.

Making a mock-up uniform is a simple and cheap task. I remember back in the day when Johanna and Lyle had replica Bendir Dale militia uniforms and trying to cause all sorts of mayhem.

Lyle,
As you already know I am very interested in joining the militia. I wish to be one of your warriors, and not one of the sneaky types. you know how to find me.

Frin

Perhaps we should get that application form done up?
New hin want to join the militia :D

Dramatic_Prince wrote:

Perhaps we should get that application form done up?
New hin want to join the militia

to this...I am working on the written test, it should be done shortly after christmas (before new years)

Honestly, it's best to keep things as they are. If PC's want to make uniforms from their own gear, out of spare gear, or buy identical gear to make this happen, great. But the way I've always looked at it is, the NPC Militia are kinda the standard Militia type; fighters with swords. All the PC Militia have their own little niches and are a bit specialized. Look at NPCs like Tak, Dirk, and Ritty who are given more story lines to make them unique to the rest of the Militia. They too have special little niches and don't wear uniforms. What I'm getting at is, there should be out of uniform Militia because they pose as undercover types. Not to mention, once the badges are made, we can RPly have our little badges to flash out at the trouble makers when we jump into action. Hin are sneaky after all

. Undercover Militia agents make sense. And before I see "well only the Intelligence officers should be undercover", nay. In real life you don't see investigators and detectives as the only law enforcement type that don't walk around in uniform. It's all kinds of people who are good at what they do.

In regards to the badges, I suggest we look into making something almost identical to the insignias that Eilistraeen Drow have. As in, they have the same exact function we need in the badges for the Militia. It's a little widget that you can use on people and it says "Shows you their Eilistraeen shrine insignia". Also, the widget is this weird little purple thing with like a star or some such in the middle and could pass for a badge, visually, IMO, not that that really matters.

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