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Greetings all,
I have tried to wright a guide for a shifter to role play since i thought it would be time for it. Please don't be very harsh on me ive written mostly out of experience and role playing and tried my best to get everything right

Here is a link:
http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Shifter

Now i want to ask if any of you find any flaws or want to edit it please send me a PM, thank you greatly Naj Rarkeon

although i havent had time to read, well done for making the effort to do this :D

Only Druid deity that allows Monks is Eldath.

All divine worshippers of Eldath must be Pacifists to the bone.

You may want to note that for the Druid/Monk/Shifters.

WonWon wrote:

Only Druid deity that allows Monks is Eldath.

All divine worshippers of Eldath must be Pacifists to the bone.

You may want to note that for the Druid/Monk/Shifters.

They can, however, slaughter undead with no problems at all, correct?

Constructs too. I dunno about elementals.

You're not required to RP the Druid levels. so you can just be "Shifter"

But you do need the right deity to allow it, and without a druid deity it is not capable to use their spells for as far as i am told

What I have understood druids get their powers from the nature. NOT gods.. there are clerics for that I would say. At least I rp my druid to use her enviroment around her to cast her spells, not calling divine spells of the gods to do so..

I believe that in FR druids and rangers require a deity to cast spells. I'm sure nobody is going to beat you for ignoring this, though.

Charise wrote:

I believe that in FR druids and rangers require a deity to cast spells.

That's what I were told when I asked DM about spells and my ranger, Davril.yes.

Fix your grammar and focus on the shifter. Your "guide" has more details about druids and monks than it does about the namesake class.

Gravemaskin wrote:

Charise wrote:

I believe that in FR druids and rangers require a deity to cast spells. I'm sure nobody is going to beat you for ignoring this, though.

That's what I were told when I asked DM about spells and my ranger, Davril.yes.

This is correct.

However, druid isn't a requirement that you have to be stuck with. But if you're going to RP not being a druid. Then.. you should not use the druid spells.

Not the druid gear, for that matter.

Quote:

The shifter and his personality

The thing with the shifters personality is rather hard, the thing is no shifter is the same since their power comes from their soul and no soul of any beeing is the same. But on the other side a shifter ALWAYS has atleast 5 levels in druid wich means he has to live by a certain oath atleast a part of it. This will mean:

You will always hold a grudge against Undead You can only use certain weapons You are a keeper of ballance

..wha?

WonWon wrote:

Only Druid deity that allows Monks is Eldath.

All divine worshippers of Eldath must be Pacifists to the bone.

You may want to note that for the Druid/Monk/Shifters.

Quoted for Emphasis

Actually the Druid requirement to become a shifter is a NWN thing. DnD wise you don't need to be a Druid to be a Shifter. (for all I know)

Therefore I guess it is fine to play your Shifter as not beeing a druid and not following the Druid faith and oath. But as Nekhy pointed out, then you shouldn't use the Druid only gear and druid spells either.

Hey tormak *wave* its a Shifter thread

ok lets start it of with that the amiawik shifter thing overall because you were misinformed about the druid being need(other then based of NWN system) about all the info became wrong

Druids and Shifters you said

"It is strange because there is no steady guideline of how to, atleast that is what most think but they forget one tiny line of the Amia lore. You have to think, the only way to become a shifter is by starting as a druid and it is clearly stated in the lore:

If a Druid multiclasses, they are still bound by oaths..ect"

you are telling amia shifters they are playing them wrong(how long have you been here?) you said you played a shifter but your wrong, you played a druid who's a shifter, I myself am playing a shifter

The shifter and his personality(no oaths so you cant determine thier personality)

now about the spells you get for the druid levels you dont officially have IC. I have said this alot of times, you can use them as long as you can justify them, like Bull's strength ,Blood frenzy,Barkskin...ect only if you use them on your self because they are transmutation like spells that your forms do to you anyway.

Actually; if a *Druid* multiclasses they are still bound by oath; if they've decided they're a shifter, they are not bound by it; though they cannot use any druid gear or spells.

The spells are divine; in FR, you need a diety for divine spells, ergo, "pure shifters" have spell like abilities for some forms, but they do *NOT* get any spells.

Funiculus wrote:

Actually; if a *Druid* multiclasses they are still bound by oath; if they've decided they're a shifter, they are not bound by it; though they cannot use any druid gear or spells.

The spells are divine; in FR, you need a diety for divine spells, ergo, "pure shifters" have spell like abilities for some forms, but they do *NOT* get any spells.

yeah my point was he was saying all shifters are druid and are playing them wrong

for the spells my point was were not acutely casting a spell just using our skills, like how our shapes have thick skin/scales that add DR/AC so Barkskin and other transmutation spells are just us enhancing a target area withour shifter like abilities.

No, those are divine spells. You'll lose them if you fall. You can say they're a supernatural ability, but they aren't.

And thus the reason why the 'pure' shifter sucks. You are forced to take at least five levels of a class that you are not allowed to use added on top of an already weak shifter class...

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

No, those are divine spells. You'll lose them if you fall. You can say they're a supernatural ability, but they aren't.

under game mechanics they are not(just like how shifters have to be druids) but RP they can be viewed as a supernatural ability

However you "view" them, they're still *spells*; and divine spells cannot be cast in FR without a Diety giving them to you; and since you turned your back on oaths and faith, it's a bit silly to expect to then be given spells for thumbing your nose at the Gods. (They don't like that).

Funiculus wrote:

However you "view" them, they're still *spells*; and divine spells cannot be cast in FR without a Diety giving them to you; and since you turned your back on oaths and faith, it's a bit silly to expect to then be given spells for thumbing your nose at the Gods. (They don't like that).

wow are you not geting it, im saying that if a shifter who uses barkskin on him self and says he is not a druid is not using barkskin the spell but changing his skin to be that of wood.

Stone Golem Shape changes AC,DR,STR,size....ect what im saying is that a shifter who uses spells, that are the effects of changing form are useable(because they are as much spells from gods as form changing is). Stoneskin because its changing your skin into basicly into a stonegolems where you get abit extra AC/DR for a time without size,form...ect being changed with it, whats the problem with that.

corypx wrote:

Funiculus wrote:

However you "view" them, they're still *spells*; and divine spells cannot be cast in FR without a Diety giving them to you; and since you turned your back on oaths and faith, it's a bit silly to expect to then be given spells for thumbing your nose at the Gods. (They don't like that).

wow are you not geting it, im saying that if a shifter who uses barkskin on him self and says he is not a druid is not using barkskin the spell but changing his skin to be that of wood.

Stone Golem Shape changes AC,DR,STR,size....ect what im saying is that a shifter who uses spells, that are the effects of changing form are useable(because they are as much spells from gods as form changing is). Stoneskin because its changing your skin into basicly into a stonegolems where you get abit extra AC/DR for a time without size,form...ect being changed with it, whats the problem with that.

Really simple. You have two choices.

A - Use the spells that the NWN Druid Class gives you. you are a druid

B - Use none of the abilities and gear granted to you by the NWN Druid Class. you are not a druid

If you're using the spells and trying to 'justify' them as such without making a request to the DM Team You're doin' it wrong..

Shapeshifters can't "half shift" to get their special abilities. That's what a Geomancer is for.

corypx wrote:

Funiculus wrote:

However you "view" them, they're still *spells*; and divine spells cannot be cast in FR without a Diety giving them to you; and since you turned your back on oaths and faith, it's a bit silly to expect to then be given spells for thumbing your nose at the Gods. (They don't like that).

wow are you not geting it, im saying that if a shifter who uses barkskin on him self and says he is not a druid is not using barkskin the spell but changing his skin to be that of wood.

Stone Golem Shape changes AC,DR,STR,size....ect what im saying is that a shifter who uses spells, that are the effects of changing form are useable(because they are as much spells from gods as form changing is). Stoneskin because its changing your skin into basicly into a stonegolems where you get abit extra AC/DR for a time without size,form...ect being changed with it, whats the problem with that.

The problem: There isn't a shifter ability that allows you to turn into wood and still move around. These are Druid abilities. If you want to say that 'you're not a druid' while you're a shifter; I'd be happy to let you receive a fall token if you ask for it. No? You don't want to because you like Druid Abilities? Then RP the Druid levels, or at the very least, don't do things your deity does not allow.

This goes for Paladins, Clerics, etc. As well. If a Sorc takes a Paladin Level, and then goes around summoning Undead, We can and will cause the Benefits from Paladin Levels to go away.

Leggomi Eggolas wrote:

The problem: There isn't a shifter ability that allows you to turn into wood and still move around. These are Druid abilities. If you want to say that 'you're not a druid' while you're a shifter; I'd be happy to let you receive a fall token if you ask for it. No? You don't want to because you like Druid Abilities? Then RP the Druid levels, or at the very least, don't do things your deity does not allow.

yes but seeing how we are forced to take 5 useless levels we gain nothing for are you going to let us level to 35 or make a race makes it so we can pick shifter without druid levels, no because you cant or wont.(because I love being called a druid just because im a shifter)

and the under powered forms because of 1 form and build makes the rest weak the DM team mixed P&P with NWN and peoples RP to build the server but it messed up some stuff.

look at the Shadowjump item hell I can turn into a bird,dragon...ect with wings that can fly and yet a shadowdancer can and jump onto unreachable hills and such and snipe me(and as a DM said its ok for them to do that) well shifters should get that tool seeing they can fly.

corypx wrote:

look at the Shadowjump item hell I can turn into a bird,dragon...ect with wings that can fly and yet a shadowdancer can and jump onto unreachable hills and such and snipe me(and as a DM said its ok for them to do that) well shifters should get that tool seeing they can fly.

Shadowjumping is -jumping from shadow to shadow- not -flying up a hill-. And just because you have wings doesn't mean you know how to fly, just look at penguins and chickens.

corypx wrote:

yes but seeing how we are forced to take 5 useless levels we gain nothing for...

You gain something from those levels simply by the virtue that you gain an ability that you have absolutely no justification to gain. Generally the requirements of the class mean that you're either a Lycanthrope, or a Druid. So if you're not a druid, and you didn't put a request up to be a Lycanthrope or other blooded shapechanger, then think of the 5 levels as an ECL 5 for whatever reason you think of for just being a random guy who can turn into things. Keep in mind, we're not forcing you to take those 5 levels and not use them. We will, however, require that if you want to use Druid abilities, that you at least maintain the standards of the class.

Quote:

look at the Shadowjump item hell I can turn into a bird,dragon...ect with wings that can fly and yet a shadowdancer can and jump onto unreachable hills and such and snipe me(and as a DM said its ok for them to do that) well shifters should get that tool seeing they can fly.

It is possible to gain a flight ability; if you roleplay quite a bit for it, you make a DC request for it, and are willing to give an untenably strict assurance that it will not be abused in any way, shape, or form (Pun Intended).

Quote:

are you going to let us level to 35 or make a race makes it so we can pick shifter without druid levels, no because you cant or wont.

And finally, You're right about at least one thing.

ILoveIceCream wrote:

Shadowjumping is -jumping from shadow to shadow- not -flying up a hill-. And just because you have wings doesn't mean you know how to fly, just look at penguins and chickens.

no but the same tool could be used as such and say its flying, and try and tell me a shifter in Wyrmling is not flying..... its flaping its wings.

Cory, just so you know, when I read your posts here they're coming across as pretty hostile, which is not condusive to a good discussion.

Faerunian lore isn't represented well by NWN mechanics. Good examples: Champions of Torm. It's basically the Divine Champion class given a misleading name - you don't need to be a Tormite to be CoT (my main char isn't!). Red Dragon Disciples are similar (there's more than one kind of dragon disciple) and Amian DMs can approximate whatever dragon type with wing changes, but 100% fire immunity won't ever be removed from the class without some serious HAKing.

If you're upset that you keep being called a druid, re-read this:

WonWon wrote:

If you're using the spells and trying to 'justify' them as such without making a request to the DM Team You're doin' it wrong..

and then you can play the spells as non-druidic abilities, and say it's DM-approved and everything. People will still see a shifter and assume druid, though, but you can just chalk that up to druids also being shapeshifters. Common folk wouldn't know any better.

corypx wrote:

wow are you not geting it

Whatever; not constructive

corypx wrote:

im saying that if a shifter who uses barkskin on him self and says he is not a druid is not using barkskin the spell but changing his skin to be that of wood.

Interesting theory; not one of their abilities, hence they don't have a spell-like ability for it. Simply because we imagine things one way for our chars doesn't make it FR lore.

corypx wrote:

Stone Golem Shape changes AC,DR,STR,size....ect what im saying is that a shifter who uses spells, that are the effects of changing form are useable(because they are as much spells from gods as form changing is).

And yet that's not actually how shifter's work. Simply because they see something made of stone or can turn into a golem is not the same as having the magical effects of a spell based on rocks. Ie because you use "magic" to change shapes doesn't mean you get to fire storms of Magic missiles simply because they're made of magical energy.

corypx wrote:

Stoneskin because its changing your skin into basicly into a stonegolems where you get abit extra AC/DR for a time without size,form...ect being changed with it, whats the problem with that.

The problem is that they rather specificially *don't* have that spell, so claiming the spell is "like" an ability when it's not; it's a spell, is abusing the game mechanics in such a way as to circumvent a restriction you chose for your char in order to RP him differently than his classes would otherwise restrict him to. You can't just turn around and say you're choosing Column B; but you want parts of Column A as well; it's an either or choice.

EDIT: Typos!

papaya taco wrote:

Cory, just so you know, when I read your posts here they're coming across as pretty hostile, which is not condusive to a good discussion.

If you're upset that you keep being called a druid, re-read this:

WonWon wrote:

If you're using the spells and trying to 'justify' them as such without making a request to the DM Team You're doin' it wrong..

and then you can play the spells as non-druidic abilities, and say it's DM-approved and everything. People will still see a shifter and assume druid, though, but you can just chalk that up to druids also being shapeshifters. Common folk wouldn't know any better.

about it coming off hostile might be because it is. I have tryed the calm discussion and that failed abunch of times so now its more like venting my shifter rage to make me feel better.

as for being called a druid for casting the spells thats not me casting them thats on behalf of some other shifters who messaged me not wanting to get drawn into the shifter fights(as they called it the shifter forumfire)

It's the Rules. Deal.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Being hostile will work less than being civil. But even civility won't get you everything. Shifters who use their Druid Abilities will be treated as Druids by the DM Team, and as such - they're bound by the Druid rules.

Which means we fall you as a Druid, which also means no more shifter.

Everyone who is RPing a Non-Druid is not allowed to a - Use the Druidic Spells, or b - Use the Druidic Restricted gear. Yes, you take 5 crappy levels, deal with it. It's a choice you made; good and bad.

Even if you didn't have to take the 5 levels, people would still be complaining about shifters. Sooo... like WonWon puts it best! Get over it!

WTF why am I agreeing with Funi

I suggest you find a fall out shelter. Alternately, record this moment in history because I dobut it will ever happen again.

Cory, you're wrong. Period. The spells are divine spells and if you are not a druid, you don't have them. 5 useless levels? Sorry. NWN thing. You'll survive.

Ron has the most succinct explanation: Use the spells. If so - Druid! Don't use the spells. If not - Not Druid!/Fallen Druid!

Crying repeatedly about how much you think Shifters suck will not make us change the class any faster if at all, Cory. And, as usual, 95% of your post is overly hostile and selfish. Seriously reconsider your posts whenvere it has anything o do with shifters, which is 99% of your posts.

Quote:

no but the same tool could be used as such and say its flying, and try and tell me a shifter in Wyrmling is not flying..... its flaping its wings.

No it can't because it's Shadow Jump. We have a Flight widget. If you don't use the Flight Widget, you did not fly, barring outstanding DM circumstances. End of Story.

WonWon wrote:

Only Druid deity that allows Monks is Eldath.

All divine worshippers of Eldath must be Pacifists to the bone.

You may want to note that for the Druid/Monk/Shifters.

*Cough*

What about the Gardeners of Life worshipping Chauntea?
(Not sure about multiclassing of this one though)

There are monks of Mielikki (known as Thoughts of the Forest), which can 100% sure multiclass with druids.

There is a monk order of Silvanus, known as Balanced Oak.

and AFAIK, monks of Eldath actually CANT multiclass with druids, not sure if they can multiclass at all.

And I think there was a few more, but I can't recall now and can't look up as I'm going to work.

NeverEverLand wrote:

WonWon wrote:

Only Druid deity that allows Monks is Eldath.

All divine worshippers of Eldath must be Pacifists to the bone.

You may want to note that for the Druid/Monk/Shifters.

*Cough*

What about the Gardeners of Life worshipping Chauntea?
(Not sure about multiclassing of this one though)

There are monks of Mielikki (known as Thoughts of the Forest), which can 100% sure multiclass with druids.

There is a monk order of Silvanus, known as Balanced Oak.

and AFAIK, monks of Eldath actually CANT multiclass with druids, not sure if they can multiclass at all.

And I think there was a few more, but I can't recall now and can't look up as I'm going to work.

Problem is that no one is quite sure which monk orders are canon lore and which are homebrewed somewhere.

They are listed in Candlekeep. Dunno, how official that is?
See
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/monks.htm

I don't get the uproar about monk spells and such.. seriously, the potions you can get have the same duration AND you can use them in your shapes, you can't cast the spells.. as for Monk/druid/Shifters, if you don't RP the Druid class at all, like so many pointed out here you're a Monk/Shifter, and problem solved*shrug*

As for shifters, yes, they have 5 levels that are useless, and yes for muticlassing to monk to counter that loss, you're for some reason seen as worse than RDD/BG/Bards. It's all about having fun if you ask me, and shifters open so many doors when it comes to RP and fun, unless you get Metaed ofcourse. I play Nasrudin to have fun, and to let others have fun, end of story. When it's not fun, I usually swich to another char for a while. As for shifters, the hows and why to their powers can be as diverse as the number of tieflings on Amia, I believe. It's rather hard to compile a lore on "how to play" one, as everyone will want to be unique. Just play your char's powers, and see what happens with the personality, according to the classes you have, and don't think about allignment, as your allignment should fit yur char, not your char to allignment. It's how I did it anyway.

I still think a monk(oneness of body and spirit) to shifter(bits and pieces) is a lame multi-class.

Also you can't take the Druid out of the Shifter.

The Incognitos wrote:

I still think a monk(oneness of body and spirit) to shifter(bits and pieces) is a lame multi-class.

Also you can't take the Druid out of the Shifter.

When we get serious about it. monk/cleric is TEN FUKKEN TIMES more cheesy than monk/druid.

Now, back on track.

And this thread in nutshell sums up quite a few of the problems on Amia. Effectively there are two groups of 'roleplayers' those who choose a class and believe they have to rp that class and those who feel classes are just a bunch of abilites to represent your view of your character.

case in point is a monk/cleric a cleric, a monk a hybrid or something else entirely? but because this doesn't appear to offend peoples' sense of 'roleplay' its fine.

Its funny just how much anti-shifter feeling there is on this board. It's already one of the weakest classes in the game yet it gets no breaks. Someone even said (forgive the paraphrase) ''lol course a shifter cant fly just because it has wings!'' well how can it breathe fire when it turns into a red dragon? It can't fly because the mechanics don't allow it! the shifter (minus spell caster classes) has gotten the rawest deal in translation to nwn and gets no help, infact if you ''choose'' to be a roleplayer and play a 'pure' shifter (bah stupid roleplayer you delibrately shafting yourself) you effectively get 5 levels of squat for your trouble. Sad just sad...

Anti shifter?

No.

anti druid-monk (which is often accompanied with shifter)? Yes.

As much as I dislike rping my shifter as a druid I pretty much have to, giving up druid spells while being a shifter/druid no monk nonsense is in itself a death sentance.

Pure shifters already suck so much giving up the only thing that kinda allows them to survive is a bit of a moot point.

And as for shifters : Any creature that has the ability/spells etc to change their appearence [polymorph] can become a shifter.

P.S.

Tormak, if there was any way for a shifter to survive on Amia without taking monk levels, or struggle to level 30 for dragon shape. There wouldn't be so many druid/monk/shifters.

DeadTwisted wrote:

if there was any way for a shifter to survive on Amia without taking monk levels, or struggle to level 30 for dragon shape. There wouldn't be so many druid/monk/shifters.

Just thought that was so pretty, that it should be quoted.
And who cares, dragonmonks still get their bums handed to them by pure sorcs, with half a brainstem... then again, who doesn't :mrgreen:

Gravemaskin wrote:

DeadTwisted wrote:

if there was any way for a shifter to survive on Amia without taking monk levels, or struggle to level 30 for dragon shape. There wouldn't be so many druid/monk/shifters.

Just thought that was so pretty, that it should be quoted.
And who cares, dragonmonks still get their bums handed to them by pure sorcs, with half a brainstem... then again, who doesn't :mrgreen:

true but the geting raped by sorcs is PVP, I think DeadTwisted was just talking PVE.

Quote:

Tormak, if there was any way for a shifter to survive on Amia without taking monk levels, or struggle to level 30 for dragon shape.

Oh-ho, the challenge!

Kakashi Hakate
Chiania
Earyduil years ago
My own shifter
Numerous other shifter players

The common link is, naturally, that they were all level 30, have no monk levels, don't struggle, and do decently well in a party.

You do not need monk to survive on amia. you do however need to have more than a quarter of a brain, some decent common sense, and lose a bit of pride and be willing to catch a godforsake party here and there and stop trying to solo 100% of the module on your own.

tormak you forgot me on your list.

TormakSaber wrote:

Earyduil years ago

He died, all the time, always, foreever, every time... But he had friends with raise scrolls so who cares. ;P

To all Shifters/becoming shifters!

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