AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

What stops people from doing what you mention then Robbi? I mean, anyone can do it. Is it the DM's or players or someone elses fault we don't? Eventually we get to a threshold with factions where DMs are needed or all out chaos happens, anarchy. I find it hard to give players to much without ruining a certain balance.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Conceptually this island would be controlled by a central town of rogues/pirates that would be powerful enough to oppose any major Amian faction from messing with it while at the same time not caring about what adventurers do as long as they pay their rent. That would avoid any of the above cases of Kohl marching in a thousand knights or having DM influence in the area above general maintenance.

Amia is behind the times, so to say, because we have always had a rather large and active DM team. Most servers couldn't quite match that so they went a head and automated a lot of the systems. Obviously the problem we are having is burn out. We just can't possibly help everyone on which is the ultimate shame and we do need to take a step in that direction. I think having the central isles of Amia with their DM plots and oversight while having the wilds would be a big step.

We do need to find a balance though and it will take time and tweaking.

Automated systems are boring, If I want that I might aswell go play an MMORPG where my actions mean nothing anyway and we can hold onto a pvp zone for a bit and then lose it over night to people who play at night or have day time when we sleep. Automated systems in NWN would just mean the faction with the most balanced, best built character will all the time. No RP needed when you can swing the biggest axe, shoot the biggest arrow.

The automated systems will be there to supplement the times the DMs aren't around. Like I said, it is a work in progress.

Maverick00053 wrote:

The automated systems will be there to supplement the times the DMs aren't around. Like I said, it is a work in progress.

Okay then, I hope it do not become to much of a automatic process. I guess we need it considering the complains.

Everyone has different tastes right? The system will ideally be in place to appease and allow some people to have fun in their own way, without DMs watching every move. The originally isles will still be the same, and DM plots will still continue!

I would like interaction between the two islands but in such a way that they influence each other to a minor point, but not overwhelming so.

Alright. Then why not go to arelith, who has a pretty much flawless set up of automated scripting?

If changing the server is difficult, then why not go a route with little scripting? It would make reaction times a whole lot easier for players to get their stuff put in. And from my understanding, that is an issue. more scripting is not going to fix this issue either.

Also, for dm plot lines, why not encourage players to act outside of these? give them some examples of how to do so and let them do their own thing. I believe if every plot has its own topic, why not let players post what they have done there?

Sounds good to me Maverick.

And What kind of scripts, Little Dragon?

Those who prefer to play on Arelith go to Arelith, those who don't don't.

Arelith is still very different than Amia. They have some nice stuff, they also however have stuff I personally would not like and enjoy. Matter of taste.

In the end people need to also keep in mind, something "new" always is exciting at first and the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. If such is a permanent conclusion is not set in stone. For some it is, for some it isn't.

Arelith is a different server and difficult atmosphere. I still personally think Amia's ability to customize your character with requests is far superior to the way Arelith rewards players. With that said though I am not concerned about Arelith, I do wish them the best though and they are kicking ass for a nwn server which makes me overjoyed. My main concern right now is about trying to make a system that the players on this server enjoy, even if it involves doing automation that may seem lesser compared to than another servers.

DM involvement with plots, and support coupled with automated systems would be better than just the former and burnt out DMs and players.

Right, but arelith also encourages change. Amia is literally the same characters, doing pretty much the same thing, and they have pretty much godlike reputation that makes it difficult for a new player, who just started, to join into the rp. arelith is set up so that if you want to actually want dm support, you have to create some really good rp, and dont expect to have it for long before they look somewhere else. Amia, however, it is the same people with dm support with little variation.

I understand what you are saying.

We definitely have some characters that are over a decade old and hold a lot of power because of it. We also don't have a system that encourages you to recycle characters to start anew.

I will talk with the rest of the team and we can think over adding a similar system. Though Amia hasn't ever had it, nor really been built around it so I am not sure how to go about it. Another thought is maybe having a DM, or if we get a new DM, become dedicated purely to every non influential players stuff. We already try and do as much as we can for player's personal quests, regardless of how much influence they may or may not have, but our DM team is spread thin with how much work is involved in everything else. If we put a DM purely on personal requests for PCs, lets say one or two mini-events per character max, that shows really great RP that might help. While it isn't the 'best' solution it is a thought for now.

Anyone can get DM attention. Safe for sometimes being unlucky and having to wait some in case the timezones are not really playing out too well.

Server plots are usually for everyone to join, save for the few, that were requested as personal plots, which also anyone can request.

Those "godlike" PC you speak, most of them long left the server. Who of them are even there still? Hardly any. And even those are usually exaggerated by far. People always keep stating here of PCs that can snap a finger and suddenly have an NPC army. Which PC would that be? I do not know any who can do that, or has done that over the course of several of the last years.

I would also like you to stop comparing Arelith to Amia all the time. They are not the same. They never will be. If you like Arelith better, then you like Arelith better and chose to play there.

If you want to make this server better, make suggestions that make it better, but do not say "be like Arelith". There is no point in that. There is no point at all in creating a second Arelith. What purpose would two identical servers serve.

Lastly, we always try to involve new people in plots. The whole adventurer guild plots were solely based for newer characters to find an easy way "in". And as one who have ran quite a few of those plots, I know that I had several newer characters in them. Sure, the occasional older character pops up too, but then they all worked together which led to very dynamic RP of very different types of characters and ideas on how to approach a matter mend together.

Again, you do not need DM support on Amia. Yes, if you want to speak with the head of a city or build your own faction area, you do. But you can RP, do quest, level, explore the job system, start your own thing with the housing system, entirely without any DM.

Sinfar and Arelith have one thing in common, it encourages change and has a laze fair type of rp style. amia, however, is highly resistant to change and tends to favor a common group of players because of how long they have been playing. this is what I have seen and has been blatantly stated by those who have left the server.

You still have not told me which group/PC those are supposed to be? Seeing it were mostly the old PC who left.

The Little Dragon wrote:

Sinfar and Arelith have one thing in common, it encourages change and has a laze fair type of rp style. amia, however, is highly resistant to change and tends to favor a common group of players because of how long they have been playing. this is what I have seen and has been blatantly stated by those who have left the server.

I do think that some system should be place to at least reward/encourage retirement, even if it is a very small reward and pat on the back.

I dont know if I agree with that assessment before Amarice For a long time I had no DM support and it was because I did not seek it, once I made the most recent character of mine, I had a reason to seek it. By arranging a group of people together and organizing timezones, I got the DM help for different events. Just to say that the people who have DM support need not to do anything for it, is not correct. It feels the assumption is they just get it instantly, no.. They organize people to gather fix timezones, persuade people and give them incentives to be there.

Of course after a while of doing that, it gets easier to get people to join when they know what your about and whether they enjoy the RP there is. However, it still takes a lot of coordinating to make events happen and at least for me, it was till the final minutes to see if people actually did show up or not. What also became difficult was the inclusion of new people that I did not know, I tried my best to do it.. And quite often it did backfire IC:ly due to things happening and not knowing what they were about. Fine, it is the risk you take. Even characters with reputation can be taken down, or the things they built.. It just takes a lot more work because they have the benefit of reputation your character needs to overcome. By this I mean the IC persuading others against them or their ideas.

My advice would be if you really need a DM for something, let them know of the idea before and start working on it already while they are thinking. Get people together for a cause and if they notice you doing the RP to build up what you're asking their time for... They can asses your contribution already and see how it is generating RP, it gives them more incentive to take it up most likely. Assuming the requested thing is reasonable.

Then cordor could instead be an area for new players who have no rp nor ooc ties to make a name for what rp they would like, and then factions would have something to recruit off of.

The Little Dragon wrote:

Sinfar and Arelith have one thing in common, it encourages change and has a laze fair type of rp style. amia, however, is highly resistant to change and tends to favor a common group of players because of how long they have been playing. this is what I have seen and has been blatantly stated by those who have left the server.

Amia got very laze RP if you mean in a relaxed kind of RP.

The Little Dragon wrote:

Then cordor could instead be an area for new players who have no rp nor ooc ties to make a name for what rp they would like, and then factions would have something to recruit off of.

It used to be that. For some reason Cordor is not a hub anymore.

What could a lonely... I don't know... Rosary? Rania? Whoever people considered those 'always the same characters'... do? If nobody would flock around them, they wouldn't have any power. The irony is just that those people are, or used to be, some of the most active characters and players. So of course they will be in a lot of events. But also people tend(ed) to gather around them, partly because they were nice/charismatic/whatever-other-OOC-reason people, partly because they heard that those characters got all the attention. And that crowd attracts attention. Activity leads to activity. A group will attract a crowd. Hell, I'd say that is one of the reasons Bendir Dale gets most of the events. Because people always sit there to RP. And the only way to change that is to attact a crowd somewhere else. Remember the short time when Bendir Dale was almost empty and everybody was in the shrine? Because the shrine was active, and attracted the more influential people on the server. But if nobody would go to the shrine apart from Eilistraeans, DMs would not have paid as much attention to the shrine, most likely.

What can be learnt from that? Well, mostly that the people that play most, that have the most friends, that can attract most people to an area, are the most influential. A large group will, in most cases, get most DM attention, whereas a group of three or four, or five won't get as much.

In a certain way, it (sadly?) also means that people with many DCs tend to get more DCs, simply because they do two things:
1. Attract people because they know how to.
2. Attract people just because they have that many DCs, and people think if they spend a lot of time near them, they'll get DCs too. (They will, but less because of the character, and more because of the group)

Is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't know. But it's what will happen. Activity attracts activity.

Cordor is not a hub because nobody cares about Cordor. I mean, honestly, Bendir Dale is the most important settlement right now, just because all the adventurers sit there. Which means that everyone goes to Bendir. A very small amount goes to the other non-neutral places, like Kohl or Tarkuul, but most are in Bendir, because it has more stuff going on than Cordor. How long was it that Cordor got an event? How long ago that Bendir Dale got one?

Just spoke to the others, and yeah the DC thing is a bit of an issue. Not even so much because "just" 3-4 people do not draw attention, but mostly because

1. Some people just have timezones that do not go so well with some of the staff
2. Newer players may not really know where to find RP yet
3. The staff being not as huge atm (though we are still working to fix that) and often occupied with fulfilling requests or being in a plot

so Tormaks generous DC offer is something we now discuss (but so far all agreed) to make a general thing (independant of his request).

This means as long as it is a RP item (Summon/companion/familiar reskin; Item spawner of non mechanical benefit items; VFX widget; Shapechanger) to more individualize their character each player can get 1 freeby of such request per 3 months? (still discussing that, also RP/Request still required) as long as they are not swimming in DC (still discussing a number of when you desqualify for this, prolly something similar than Tormaks though).

Having many, or no, DCs makes absolutely zero difference on how many people flock around you, nor does it affect DM attention.

Also, the size of the group role-playing doesn't really affect DM attention either. What draws their attention is the quality, and content, of the RP, regardless of how many are involved. With the lower Player count, there is actually more chance of a DM watching you, than with 60 Players or so.

But yes, activity does lead to more activity, and a small group can easily attract a larger one, but that's always been the case, on every server out there. What that boils down to, is Player initiative, so take it and roll with it.

There is always going to be OOC issues between people, everywhere, just like in real life. But Joe, OOC is real life. Yes, yes it is, so don't take IC things personal, and don't make them OOC issues. That is completely on the Players playing, and no one can change that, but the people playing. I've had my share of OOC issues, frustrations, and whatnot, but I'm still here, having fun, because that's what I want. I had to get over it, or past it, or whatever, and I won't let other people ruin my enjoyment of the game, for it is a game, and games are meant to be fun.

Robbi is correct. The goal I desire is to attract more players to amia. I wanted to create cordor as a place for people who did not want to rp with rosary to gather. The problem I believe the server has is that there are not enough flavors of rp so therefore many people who cannot find a good flavor here look elsewhere. So, the server is slowly moving towards players just up and leaving because the flavor of rp that is being presented is something they do not like. Amia has narrowed down the flavor of its rp to about one kind, and it is very chaotic and cheesy, which is how the bendir dale has expressed itself. Unfortunately, this makes it difficult to attract players because the other rp spots are factionized, like kohiligin and tarkuul.

Of course they're factionized, that is the point. You just used two completely opposite aligned cities as an example, which gives more opportunity to attract Players/PCs. Amia has very many 'flavors' of RP, and again, that is on the Players to do, the DMs cannot make anyone RP, or decide how you RP, that's on you, Player. So you tried to get people to gather somewhere besides the Dale, great! Just don't blame the DMs because you didn't gain Player support, because just like DMs, you can't control how other Players RP.

Kudark wrote:

Having many, or no, DCs makes absolutely zero difference on how many people flock around you, nor does it affect DM attention.

Well, I know I was guilty of this, and I doubt I'm the only one:

My reasoning about one and a half years ago:
1. People sit in Bendir Dale.
2. Those people have DCs.
3. I don't see them doing that much desides sitting there. (objectively wrong, but I didn't know that back then)
4. People get DCs for events, people with many DCs were in many events.
Conclusion: If I sit near people with many DCs, I will get more myself, than I would simply grinding or sitting somewhere else, alone.

It doesn't work as easy as that, but it is true, to an extent. And I remember a few times DMs pretty much saying that if you are in a group, you are more likely to get DM attention. Partly just because people don't often RP alone.
If a DM is online, and there are two equal groups online, each one has a 50% chance to get the DMs attention. If a single group is online, it has a 100% chance. (In theory, at least, when a DM is not doing anything else)

And, Little Dragon, about the rest being factionized... I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I know for a fact that Tarkuul does not exclude people who are not in the factions from participating. We even had someone not from the faction in one of our biggest recent events... You're always welcome, even if you just want to have a talk with one of us, or a drink in the Kraken. The bigger difficulty is finding people, though we often (in my limited experience, I've been gone for a while) sit in the Court of the Undying. Kohl, I honestly don't know enough for any of that. Of course, if you spend time there, it's likely that you'll be invited to join the faction, but you don't necessarily have to in order to RP with factions. I mean, they usually are looking for more members, which means you would need to know new people, and have them RP with you.

So uh, how exactly do you know how many DCs a person has?
My main character has been around for a lot of years, are you assuming I have a shit ton of DCs? (I don't, by the way)

Why is Elyon being brought into this as if she's doing something wrong? Elyon is one of the few people who actually put time and dedication into the place she likes and she's being criticized for it? Quit bringing her into this topic unnecessarily - the fact that people enjoy playing with her is reason enough to justify activity in Bendir.

Enough said.

robbi320 wrote:

..... I know for a fact that Tarkuul does not exclude people who are not in the factions from participating. We even had someone not from the faction in one of our biggest recent events... You're always welcome, even if you just want to have a talk with one of us, or a drink in the Kraken. The bigger difficulty is finding people, though we often (in my limited experience, I've been gone for a while) sit in the Court of the Undying. Kohl, I honestly don't know enough for any of that. Of course, if you spend time there, it's likely that you'll be invited to join the faction, but you don't necessarily have to in order to RP with factions. I mean, they usually are looking for more members, which means you would need to know new people, and have them RP with you.

I do not think many factions these days would exclude people not part of the faction as long as they are not directly opposing eachother. And hells even then they talk at times. Malandria speaks to plenty people who are not of the Grove but just come to visit or whom she meets on patrols or elsewhere. She often enough even talks to people she dislikes (due to what she is) as long as they do not flash an undead or abberation into her face. And I know many other of the Grove are the same. Sure she is not always nice to everyone, but that has nothing to do with me as a player not wanting to RP. Arguing IC can be quite interesting RP too and simply, in her case, comes either from what she is and the other person standing for somethign opposing that, or because she simply by now is somewhat jaded and bitter.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Just spoke to the others, and yeah the DC thing is a bit of an issue. Not even so much because "just" 3-4 people do not draw attention, but mostly because

1. Some people just have timezones that do not go so well with some of the staff
2. Newer players may not really know where to find RP yet
3. The staff being not as huge atm (though we are still working to fix that) and often occupied with fulfilling requests or being in a plot

so Tormaks generous DC offer is something we now discuss (but so far all agreed) to make a general thing (independant of his request).

This means as long as it is a RP item (Summon/companion/familiar reskin; Item spawner of non mechanical benefit items; VFX widget; Shapechanger) to more individualize their character each player can get 1 freeby of such request per 3 months? (still discussing that, also RP/Request still required) as long as they are not swimming in DC (still discussing a number of when you desqualify for this, prolly something similar than Tormaks though).

I would be somewhat tempted to say to just do away with a DC cost for visual fluff stuff entirely. Customisation was always a part of Amia's allure and that might help capitalise on it. Obviously still keep DC's for mechanical benefits like items/spells but with our lower numbers simply allowing more freedom in the visual stuff (as long as it RP supported) may provide some benefit/show off that part of Amia better both for current people and newer folk that see us - and even allow the ones that don't get so much DM attention to get some of the nice stuff too. It might present some issues. but I could see it helping to focus on one of Amia's strong points.

Last edited by robbi320 on Fri, Aug 18 2017, 16:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.

TheCortroy wrote:

Why is Elyon being brought into this as if she's doing something wrong? Elyon is one of the few people who actually put time and dedication into the place she likes and she's being criticized for it? Quit bringing her into this topic unnecessarily - the fact that people enjoy playing with her is reason enough to justify activity in Bendir.

Enough said.

I'm sorry. I did not see my mentioning her as a bad thing, though if she wants, I can gladly remove my mention of her. That you think it was an attack actually confuses me. My whole point was that if people really cared about how much influence she has, she would not have said influence. If people did not want to play with her, people would not play with her. Like, people legitimately have free choice where they RP, and I'd even say that her being one of the constants of Bendir Dale would just show that she is at least part of the reason why people RP there, rather than somewhere else.

Hell, I called her one of "the people that play most, that have the most friends, that can attract most people to an area, are the most influential."

And really, Elyon, if you want me to remove your mention, I can remove it. It was not meant as an attack, and I am sorry if seemed like one.

I believe there is little farther this thread can go and still be productive.

Amia does not have the player base and will continue serving flavors of rp that are narrow and rather undesired by those who have left amia for greener pastures. From what I have witnessed during a few dm events, there has been a shutting down of players, which then ended up causing these players to leave. Players who held their loyalty to amia over arelith have shifted to arelith because of the stagnation, I will not say their names.
I believe the only real change that can happen is if I joined the dm team and offer something different from the norm and rather than favoring groups that sit around, favor those who strive in their pursuits. However, I doubt this would happen because I have renounced playing my character on amia, for I do not like the current flavor of rp presented. I will say I do not agree with some of the actions of the current dm team. However, Amarice, I believe you are an outstanding dm.
Also, as for encouraging rp, I suggesting building squares for people to gather in the cities. Do not make them too big where people cannot see each other, while do not make them too small as to make it choking. a 2x2 square area surrounded by buildings should do well. Just make it so that traffic is forced into these areas and they will work.

Last edited by Darkblade on Fri, Aug 18 2017, 17:12 PM, edited 1 time in total.

To trow in some positive in here. I personally had little to no ooc drama on amia and I'm playing here from 2004-2005. I started on arelith before that and hosted/re-designed my own amphillia module before that . That's what got me into nwn when it launched the vast and easy to use toolset.
I love playing here even do I'm not in allot of events or have allot of dc's
Heck I have most my requests turned down and for good reason at that
Amarice is always kind enough to help me with some of those, players like kudark helping me with my barkskin request and this is just naming two of the vast amount of players who helped me over the years
To the dm team and players alike a big thank you for keeping this server alive to provide tons of future rp and give blokes like me something to look forward to after a long day of kids/work and so on
I'm an old hardcore player that's perhaps sticking around for nostalgia sake but hey I genuinely think this is a great server

My deepest respect to you all !!

I just find it odd that if you do not like Amia RP at all, why do you still bother with the OOC side then. You have made a point more than once that Amia is not good enough and the fact you dont even want to contribute to that RP. What I have seen is that the RP is changing, it is not the same as it was year or two ago.. OR even longer period of time ago. If some events or ways of rping dont appeal to you, develop something different and attract people to it. Sure there was some bad apples that made mistakes perhaps due to inexperience or perhaps by human error.. But I have not experienced DM team to shut down ideas, more often than not they tell hints what might be possible as feedback. Or say blunty it is a no if there are some other reasons that they cant perhaps reveal.

For example: I got enough of the plotting and city building RP, so I asked a DM if it would be possible to do a normal D&D style relic hunt. They were happy to cater to that and actually a surprisingly many showed up. If you prefer smaller events for example: I asked DM if I plan a plane traveling event with max 5 people, would he/she happy to run it and in the end ended up asking 6th person with us spontaneously. Asked the DM first though if he was fine with it and no problemos. Events with plus 10 people or more has been arranged too.

I just dont understand this statement of not enough flavour or too many flavours, if you plan your character with zero flexibility then such will happen. You can literally come up an event yourself, ask if DM is happy to run it and then do it. Of course if none of the DM's dont like the idea they might say no.. But normally they have just told me to scale down, which I then did if needed. And if none of them like the idea or have personally zero interest to do, then maybe look into the mirror and plan something else. After all, the DM is just another player who also wants to enjoy while doing the arranging in the game side and story. If you do things just for personal interest, there usually is no interest but if you find something that connects more people... People tend to get onboard.

I am sorry, but I do disagree with your view on the topic.

It's fine Robbi, I'm sure it wasn't an attack.

I'd like to mention that the RP that happens with the faction Bendir isn't the same as the RP that happens outside the walls. If you'd (to anyone in general) like to know the more intricate plots and on-goings that happen in the faction, you're welcome to see for yourself in a game. Our Bendir DM has been supportive of us because there is still activity and presence in the faction. Though there's not much I can personally do about the 'people sitting outside' part- in fact, I encourage players to spark their own initiative. However, I think there's a lot of assumption making when players describe those who seem to simply 'sit around and do nothing'. Most do have their personal agendas and goals from what I've seen, yet it's so easy to draw a conclusion without knowing. Characters have varying personalities but that doesn't correlate to the 'chaotic-spontaneous-cheese' RP you might think it is.

There are all sorts of flavours of RP on Amia. I don't think we should be expecting anyone to make it happen for us and certainly not to blame/rely on DMs, plots or players for a 'flavour of RP' because it's not someone's cup of tea. The flavour comes from the players which is up to us to make ourselves. I know I've got a lot of RP initiatives here: RP regarding plots, fraction initiative RP, Mage RP, PC personal goals, RP initiatives with other PCs etc... It's already there available to me. I also don't need a DM for most of these.

If people take their time to do post like this, I still think they have a will to help and love for Amia. I do not think we should alienate players over OOC. They worry, that is a good sign that they care.

The Little Dragon wrote:

Right, but arelith also encourages change. Amia is literally the same characters, doing pretty much the same thing, and they have pretty much godlike reputation that makes it difficult for a new player, who just started, to join into the rp. arelith is set up so that if you want to actually want dm support, you have to create some really good rp, and dont expect to have it for long before they look somewhere else. Amia, however, it is the same people with dm support with little variation.

If you love Arelith so much go play it. Stop comparing the two servers. We're a different community and a different server. Your posts suggest your attitude doesn't care about Amia. You're just posting to post.

EDIT:

I think Elyon (Rosary) is both opening OOCly and ICly. You have to be really pushing Rosary's buttons to be banned or excluded from their RP. I promise any new player can engage in the RP there and give a few weeks they'll understand a lot. It's a social hub. People go there for the social ability. It's also a meeting ground. If you're searching for a particular character (icly) that should be the first place you look.

I also agree that Tarkuul, for example, is a faction area. Yes. Two factions rest there (Living Guard / MM). But I promise you, if you want to rp, engage. Maybe not from "older" Tarkuul. But from my point on (HoJo, Gerald, Rhoe, Hy). Any of them would just engage you if you don't engage them. If you're in Tarkuul then they've no issue with you. Now yes there are certain events that'll take place you can't attend because you're not a faction member. But more often then not if you've got a Sword or a Spellbook you can chip in. Disagree with me (Gerald / Rhoe / Hy) if you want. But that's from my experience. I hardly see players get turned away.

LibrisMortis_666 wrote:

The Little Dragon wrote:

Right, but arelith also encourages change. Amia is literally the same characters, doing pretty much the same thing, and they have pretty much godlike reputation that makes it difficult for a new player, who just started, to join into the rp. arelith is set up so that if you want to actually want dm support, you have to create some really good rp, and dont expect to have it for long before they look somewhere else. Amia, however, it is the same people with dm support with little variation.

If you love Arelith so much go play it. Stop comparing the two servers. We're a different community and a different server. Your posts suggest your attitude doesn't care about Amia. You're just posting to post.

EDIT:

I think Elyon (Rosary) is both opening OOCly and ICly. You have to be really pushing Rosary's buttons to be banned or excluded from their RP. I promise any new player can engage in the RP there and give a few weeks they'll understand a lot. It's a social hub. People go there for the social ability. It's also a meeting ground. If you're searching for a particular character (icly) that should be the first place you look.

I also agree that Tarkuul, for example, is a faction area. Yes. Two factions rest there (Living Guard / MM). But I promise you, if you want to rp, engage. Maybe not from "older" Tarkuul. But from my point on (HoJo, Gerald, Rhoe, Hy). Any of them would just engage you if you don't engage them. If you're in Tarkuul then they've no issue with you. Now yes there are certain events that'll take place you can't attend because you're not a faction member. But more often then not if you've got a Sword or a Spellbook you can chip in. Disagree with me (Gerald / Rhoe / Hy) if you want. But that's from my experience. I hardly see players get turned away.

Nope, I agree fully. That said, Rhoe is no longer with Tarkuul, and her presence on Amia is questionable right now.

I also wanted to add on the subject of "sitting around and doing nothing in Bendir".

My character, HoJo, can be seen in Bendir pretty much all the time (when I'm online). There is a particular reason HoJo lingers there. It's not to just be social though I think those who roleplay with HoJo knows he enjoys the attention. But those who assume Bendir is just social RP that has no factor to rp, I invite you to visit.

5 months ago HoJo would visit Bendir to stir shit. He'd push the Guards to the limit, the Mayor, and PCs. He'd see how much bullshit they'd take until it comes an issue of hostility. Now that just sounds like bs RP that offers no factor / furthers RP at all. Well I guess you're right. But it's how my character is.

So yes, everything there has a particular character with habits that offer Bendir / And the Server unique views on life. But unless you log in and actually try to understand that then you're stuck posting on forums. Some days will be boring in Bendir where everyone is just tired and want to talk. No agenda. But other days is excitement. Games. Arguments. But you'll never know until you get IG!

Well....i had the chance to reread and here are a few more thoughts. Of course this is not everything.

- Forum ghouls. It is a long standing issue with Amia, ever since the game exists.

- As I said before. OOC issues do exist but it is not between good and evil dudes anyway. Granted, PVP grief exists on both ends of a pvp even nowadays but not how it existed in the past. The OOC issues are happening different, mostly within one faction. We have seen several blowing up on that in the past few years.

- Second issue is that the OOC toxicity goes outside the official mediums (game and forum) and goes on a whole new level that required a new rule from us because just to encourage people to act like human beings. Not surprisingly a few "forum ghoul" immediately took the opportunity to claim that the DM team is protecting themselves while it had to be introduced because of player vs player attitude.

- Most of you bring up favoritism which is not the case. Also, if you check the server rules of the other servers that you brought up they have favoritism institutionalized on several layers. Nobody seems to be bothered by that it seems. As, Amarice

- As for the past and present Amia. I am not sure what people mean by that. If you look at the hard facts, the state of PC/faction influence on the server has not changed over the past decade or so. You require just as much DM permission/oversight as you required in 2008. That part hasn't changed at all. Just in my example in the past years, DM involvement is rarely necessary to maintain a faction if you stick to certain boundaries dictated by common sense.

- Player persistence and due diligence. While in the past this was not the issue. People do not seem to realize that this is a necessity in order to gain knowledge and influence. Cordor is a great example when people are complaining about. Non of the complaining elements ever bothered to write a PM to any member of the DM team. The rules of engagement hasn't changed over the years. Information is not taken for granted. You need to work to obtain it, even through open or hidden sources ICly, but you do have to work for it. That is your job as a player and it is our job to honor if it you take the time and effort and (based on circumstances) if you succeed. Of course, the system is far from being flawless.

- As Estara said...there are underlying issues too that are feeding the conflict between players and DMs and frustrations too. Seeing some of the discussions (not this one necessarily before someone begins to lecture one of us about the reasons of this thread) here some of us DMs often ask the question on why are we still doing this. Of course, it is "part of the job", however, there is a point when the level of attitude reaches everyone. We (the DMs) are also here to have fun but aside from that, we have lives and we are human beings too that many of you seem to forget.

- Another topic on new factions and it happens with evil factions more often than with good that they want "everything" within a short amount of time. Even if the faction in question receives the most DM support and DM hours, it will never be enough or sometimes the outcome is not favored. That participates with the action/reaction index which tends to create the previously mentioned OOC toxicity for some reason. However, instead of working on it IG, most people just tend to abandon the ship and roll a new character or leave the server. That does not really help in the persistence factor which won't contribute much influence overtime.

- People who do have influential factions or character tend to invest in their RP for years while in the case of most people who complain I keep seeing a constant change of characters after a few months of RP. Less persistence leads to less amount of influence. It is a false assumption, especially nowadays that a PC cannot be influential without a faction. In fact, I see many who join and then leave a faction because the faction RP helped them identifying a new paradigm for their characters that they could take as an individual, without a faction. Which I personally consider awesome and good because it is a reflection of the market world in a minor, virtual way. You join to a large place to gain perspective and you become an entrepreneur after that. Something to think about for the future.

I apologise for this post in advance. I really do. I know that so many players have committed to Amia and invested so much in it. And I know that people are very resistant to saying, "Make Amia more like Arelith". And I know I'm just some long lost hated figure from the past who shouldn't be even on the forums. But Amia changed my life and will always be part of the story of my life, just like it is part of all of yours.

Really, Amia and Arelith are like the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front. To anyone outside of the two servers, the two places are functionally identical. The differences between them are like the small identifying marks of identical twins that only a mother can recognise.

More than that, in the Venn diagrams of the internet, amongst the many millions and even billions of unidentified, amorphous souls, if you go to Arelith, you will know half the people there. Many of them will be people from the golden age of Amia, the very people you loved playing with, from when Amia was at its peak. So many of the people who play there are your friends.

What makes a server great? Is it the scripts, or the Haks, or the DM plotlines, or the finely made areas? Or is it the stories and the people? Because if its the last two, both of those are the same on both servers.

I do think it is about time that people start asking: what if I took my enthusiasm, and my scripting skills, and my passion, and combined it with people from all around the world, with people from this one small, tightly knit, international community, who love playing Neverwinter Nights?

People talk about knowing the trends of Amia. "Oh, we always get quieter at this time of year." But like an aunty who only sees the children at Christmas, you're missing the real trend. Amia is dying. And even though Arelith is thriving, its only thriving because the remnants of all the hundreds of servers that have died out are collecting in one place. We're all part of one small community; a bloody amazing, creative, strange community that has all grown up with each other.

Its always hurt me to see so much othering of the NWN player base. We fight and squabble amongst ourselves, when really, we are all joined by this unique bond that makes us come together across all of the world, to share this love for roleplaying that we cannot find anywhere else online. But that we is a bigger we than just Amia. Its a big NWN we. And that includes Arelith (and even, for those of us who are feeling depraved and kinky, a little bit of Sinfar in us too). We all share far more gaming DNA than we differ on.

Just imagine if the best ideas of both worlds were combined. I know Arelith is considering HAKS. I know Amia is far ahead on that score and has so much wisdom to give.

Maybe its time to bend the knee to the dragon queen. It doesn't mean you're losing anything. The union could be bigger and better than anything we have ever seen before. Please join us on Arelith. Not in leaving Amia behind, but in bringing it with you.

Stop... bringing... up.. Arelith.

The two are not merging, the two have nothing in common anymore, they will not join. Most of the staff on Amia and Arelith do not even know eachother.

If you want to help fix amia, make suggestions all you want. But stop comparing it to Arelith every second damn post, that leads us nowhere at all.

Many of the people bringing it up haven't been around for years. I think it's a little disingenuous to only come back to douse flames that no longer warm you, but I already voiced my opinion on that.

Fact remains, this is a thread on the state of the Amian server. If the nut of your suggestion is "copy this server" or, even more bald-faced, just telling people to leave when there clearly the intent of the thread is to not about that... well, that speaks for itself. It looks pretty tasteless. As I said before, you'll probably find something better to do, sooner or later. Opinions are welcome, but at least have the respect to pertain to the topic. That is, improving our server. How would you feel X server you now play had a topic about improving itself, and people only logged on to say come elsewhere? I respect that you've moved on, but respect is required here in turn.

Once again, people can play multiple servers. The people that will play elsewhere will. The people that will not, will not. You're not even helping Arelith or Sinfar or any other server, you're only making yourself and vicariously your own community look like vultures. And I say that as a man working for a company that is literally doing that to another failing company right now; it's not a good feeling or a good look.

As I said before, get what you need out of this. If there are good ideas we can incorporate in our own Amian way that have worked elsewhere, I think everyone understands that. Just don't be a ghoul. If you haven't been invested in the server, and have no interest of becoming reinvested in the server, you're kinda wasting your own time more than anyone else's. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bold suggestion. Why do we still have dream coins?

If a request requires RP to get, why is the RP and proof of that RP not sufficient?

I think the 'tormak pays for everything' event shows that there won't be a mad-grab just because stuff is cheap... but I had to spend almost 40 DC just to get weapons. There are people on this server that RP better then me that will just never have that number of DC.

So why not just abolish the DC system? And just take requests?

With Tormak bankrolling everything we basically did that already, it just has a time before it runs out. Why not just keep it?

I think DC's made more sense when custom scripting was a thing and filling a DC request would take actual man hours

But now it's generally just making an item or using a skinchange widget after spawning a monster.

I think if 'new' players could get the 'core' of what makes Amia special and different quickly it would help alot.

DM's can also just arbitrate odiously if a level 1 new acct new player is like 'gimmie a dragon im new' you can just be like 'no' unless effort went into the request (which is what's done anyway).

Also lastly some of the biggest requests don't even require DC's (area changes) and we do things like leg changes for free which is about as hard as adding anything else to anyone.

But again Tormak made everything free and there's been no mad rush so why not just abolish the system so ppl don't feel like they have to 'act differently' when a DM is on or feel 'left out' because there isn't always a DM in their tomezine?

If you want you can keep giving out DC's to ppl to use IG as gold/xp and just make requests free.

Commie wrote:

I think DC's made more sense when custom scripting was a thing and filling a DC request would take actual man hours

But now it's generally just making an item or using a skinchange widget after spawning a monster.

I think if 'new' players could get the 'core' of what makes Amia special and different quickly it would help alot.

DM's can also just arbitrate odiously if a level 1 new acct new player is like 'gimmie a dragon im new' you can just be like 'no' unless effort went into the request (which is what's done anyway).

That was essentially my reasoning for suggesting it too. Letting people easily access the bits that make Amia, Amia might draw more back or spark interests again in people lurking and putting that to the forefront would show that off well. We have something amazing in that, and while back when we had a population that filled our servers we might have needed something to limit it, we aren't in those days and making it easier to access will make old and new people happy.

Yeah. Just have a higher demand of RP for mechanical items so people don't just hit 30 and throw up a dream gear combo. Or track how often people are getting stuff made.

Or have the Djinn work the same as now but take DC's as the only thing left that does. So if you dont have DC's go do RP work if you do have DC's go 'shopping.'

Tormak's "bankroll" as you call it doesn't apply to anything for items or "power." Purely RP and cosmetic things however, that may indeed be looked at, and there are a few things in the past that required DCs that not longer do.

I think it's important to look at what the goal of the DC system is before we consider abolishing it. Firstly, the point is not to keep anyone from attaining anything. As I've understood it, DCs are intended to be a measurement of sorts, a metric, of good will when it comes to RP. Now there are flaws in that, yes, and they've been talked into the ground: playtimes that don't match up with DMs, RP that doesn't interest certain DMs and therefore is less likely to be viewed, and of course the eternal spectral boogeyman of favoritism.

In the alternative system, one without DCs, you have to realize those things don't exactly go away either. A purely RP system--alright. Who judges the quality of RP? Still DMs. If they're not as familiar with your RP, there's less likelihood that they'll okay your request. Standards on any number of things can arbitrarily increase, if the only requirement is a "good story," better or worse. Alright, this is the 10th request for a Half Blue Dragon we've seen this month, and it's as good as the others, so there we go. Flawed as it is, a lot of times the DC system acts as a filter: you only have so many, so the requests you make you are usually more invested in. You don't go making super contrived PCs and abilities every other week, so what you spend your DCs on or have others spend for you is usually something you plan to at least ride for a while. Now, can people that already have loads of DCs theoretically make new PCs with VFXs and full gear sets every week? Yes. But from what I've seen, by a large, most of the people that have troves of DCs have gotten them from focusing on one or two characters. Tormak is an example of this very principle.

This again is not saying the DC system is perfect, but it's a bit foolhardy to look at it as if it is the root of all problems; as I showed, many will still be there and many new ones arise. I'm not often an advocate of arbitrary middle ground, but I think there is something more true to the goal of each--pure RP and measurable merit--that is somewhere between both systems.

1. Tormak's awesome donation only involves RP items, skin changes, e.t.c. Nothing that adds power to a character like Weapons, armor, abilities.

2. I always disliked the idea of a DM having to tell me I do great RP. I know its a rewarding system. But I think if they crack down on request, and make us do actual screenshots / e.t.c. It'll force PCs to take Job via Job System. Then we'd be back on track with rp.

3. Make request harder to get, but free. That way if we want a special ability we /TRUELY/ have to understand every aspect of it, good or bad, and its free. That would level out the request but also give a detailed understanding.

4. Perhaps you can make a maximum of request a month, or two. That way no one is requesting things all the time. They have to put actual effort into their request but IG and behind the screen. That way DMs get involved and see a Legendary Sword being made from scratch, or a Wizard understanding a spell more than others.

I'm not in disagreement with you Dark, but ultimately a DC request still needs sufficient RP. Someone who has or doesn't have them, will still need give the same amount and the issue may just be one person is unlucky with DM time to obtain them.

My suggestion was to remove it for visual fluff stuff, leaving mechanical stuff still needing something - something to stop just everyone requesting full sets of top end stuff all the time as at least with the visual stuff, that doesn't matter so much in terms of power/advantage it ultimately offers, if that was a concern.

I don't believe the current DC system actually is a problem though, but I believe the custom stuff we have is something we should take advantage of more. Letting people access the visual fluff stuff more easily is what may entice people.

And yeah, a limit on requests could be a good thing too, potentially. If concern of flooding was something that would be an issue.

Re: Making custom stuff available for everyone, nice in theory, but hard to do in practice. As it turned out after several of the scripts were reviewed, a good chunk of them simply aren't ready for public use, since in a lot of cases they were tailormade for whatever specific PC requested them and need serious re-writes before they can be made public, which means well, dev time. There are some in the pipeline, but someone needs to sit down and fix them first. Sadly back in the day, a lot of these were made without much consideration for the future.

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