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Monk

[To Find Out More About Monks Click Here]

Dotted across the landscape are monasteries - small, walled cloisters inhabited by monks. These monks pursue personal perfection through action as well as contemplation. They train themselves to be versatile warriors skilled at fighting without weapons or armor. Monasteries headed by good masters serve as protectors of the people. Ready for battle even when barefoot and dressed in peasant clothes, monks are able to travel unnoticed among the populace, catching bandits, warlords, and corrupt nobles unawares. By contrast, monasteries headed by evil masters rule the surrounding lands through fear, virtually as an evil warlord's castle might. Evil monks make ideal spies, infiltrators, and assassins.

The individual monk, however, is unlikely to care passionately about championing commoners or amassing wealth. She cares for the perfection of her art and, thereby, her personal perfection. Her goal is to achieve a state that is, frankly, beyond the mortal realm.

Adventures:Monks approach adventures as if they were personal tests. While not prone to showing off, monks are willing to try their skills against whatever obstacles confront them. Monks are not greedy for material wealth, but they eagerly seek that which can help them perfect their art.

Characteristics:The key feature of the monk is her ability to fight unarmed and unarmored. Thanks to her rigorous training, she can strike as hard as if she were armed and strike faster than a warrior with a sword.

Though monks don't cast spells, they have a magic of their own. They channel a subtle energy, called ki, which allows them to perform amazing feats. The monk's best-known feat is her ability to stun an opponent with an unarmed blow. A monk also has a preternatural awareness of attacks. She can dodge an attack even if she is not consciously aware of it.

As the monk gains experience and power, her mundane and ki-oriented abilities grow, giving her mote and more power over herself and, sometimes, over others.

Alignment:A monk's training requires strict discipline. Only those who are lawful at heart are capable of undertaking it.

Religion:A monk's training is her spiritual path. She is inner-directed, capable of a private, mystic connection to the spiritual world. She needs neither clerics nor gods. Certain lawful gods, however, may appeal to monks, and monks may meditate on the gods' likenesses and attempt to emulate their deeds.

KI

What is Ki? Excellent question! Let's start by taking a look at what Ki strike is.

Ki Strike (Su):At 4th level, a monk's unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction (see Damage Reduction). Ki strike improves with the character's monk level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness (see Smashing an Object).

So we can Gather that :
Ki Is a Super Natural ability, and is a subtle energy.
supernatural ability

Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance. Supernatural abilities cannot be dispelled. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise and generally does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will, just like spell-like abilities. However, supernatural abilities do not provoke attacks of opportunity and never require Concentration checks. Unless otherwise noted, a supernatural ability has an effective caster level equal to the creature's Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a supernatural ability is 10 + 1/2 the creature's HD + the creature's ability modifier (usually Charisma).
Chakra

What is Chakra?
Another Excellent Question. Let's take a look at how traditional dnd explains Chakra.

there is a Psionic class known as the Soul Manifester that is noted to use Chakra.

Chakra Binds:As you attain higher levels, you can bind your soulmelds and magic items to your chakras, gaining new powers based on the combination chosen. At 3rd level, you can bind your soulmelds or magic items to your least (crown, feet, and hands), in addition to any other chakras you have available. When you attain 8th level, your lesser chakras (arms, brow, and shoulders) become available for chakra binds.

It appears that Chakra is an energy that can be manifested in to key locations on the body.

Now we get to the fun part. I've seen a lot of chakra / ki rp and it's been all over the place. I would like to propose a rather defined manner in explain Chakra and Ki for Monks and how they work to see if this can be our accepted home brew take on it for Amia.

Proposal

Chakra
Each of the centers of spiritual power in the human body, usually considered to be seven in number.

Chakra- can be controlled and manipulated to create an effect that would not be possible otherwise, such as augmenting physical strength, exhaling fire, or creating illusions. Chakra is ordinarily not visible to the unaided eye unless it is highly concentrated or manifested in large amounts. This is rarely seen due to the restrictions of seven specific tenketsu known as the seven Gates, which limit the amount of Chakra an individual can release at a single given time.

Tenketsu or Chakra 'Points', Literally meaning: pressure point)

Tenketsu are nodes from which chakra can be released. The human body has 361 tenketsu, each of which is located along the chakra pathway system

Chakra pathway systemis a term used to describe the points within the body that channel chakra through it. Simply put they serve the same function for chakra as blood vessels do for blood. Along the chakra pathways, there are 361 nodes called tenketsu that control the flow of chakra like circuit breakers, and within those tenketsu are seven Gates which control body function and strain levels.

The seven Gates are seven specific tenketsu on a person's Chakra Pathway System. They limit the overall flow of chakra within a person's body. The basis for the idea of the chakra gates comes from the body's limits on the functions within it. This makes the body much weaker, but it keeps the body from expiring too soon. By undergoing intense training, one can learn how to open these gates allowing the user to surpass their own physical limits at the cost of extreme damage to their own body. These gates will be like Chakra points such as in the following diagram

I would like to Propose that Chakra is the Eternal Energy bodies make each day and require rest to replenish. When Chakra is brought forth and made external it manifests as what we know as KI

Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy or Mental Energy is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience. These two energies becoming more powerful will in turn make the created chakra more powerful. Therefore, practicing a technique repeatedly will build up experience, increasing one's spiritual energy, and thus allowing more chakra to be created.

A monk at any given time will have a "maximum" amount of chakra that they can form and use before it runs out and they need to rest to replenish it. With practice this maximum can be increased [more monk lvls] , but to a certain extent as they are limited to the quantity and strength of chakra that their genetics grants them.

Chakra essentially become a persons Ki pool.

Each person's chakra is different and as such gives off a unique chakra signature, Which manifests in Ki to a visible degree in certain trained individuals or master of Ki [ Glowing eyes]

Thoughts? Discuss.

Is this canon?

Everything above the proposal is cannon.

Do whatever you want, but it's fluff. Let other people fluff their own characters. I would not want my monk's abilities explained this way.

Yeah. It's a thing that can be portrayed and played different ways, depending on how people want to play them, to me.

I think it's a good inquiry into the nature of the Ki, and by way of that, the whole class. Even if there's no need to settle on any fixed explanation for Ki and Monkiness in general, it bears some discussion, as does the source of magic and technique of other classes. At worst, we would get some insight into how the Monk class could potentially be roleplayed, and that doesn't sound too bad at all.

For me, this information would seem a bit tedious to learn and roleplay to a degree I could be personally satisfied with, but I would buy that the insight of the Chakras is what makes the monk do what they do, whether my own character was privy to the bookish study of the art or only to the intuitive know-how.

I wonder, what are your own thoughts on this PassionateShadow? I assume you find this particularly interesting because you brought this up?

To my knowledge Magic of the Incarnum, which discusses soulmelds, borrows the term chakra to describe binding points on the body where a soulmeld will have additional effects. At least as far as soulmelds are concerned, the source material describes chakras as slots, not energy.

Like the above posters have said, the fluff is each player's own prerogative and they are welcome and encouraged to borrow ideas from buddhist tradition in describing their class.

Chakra per Incarnum has nothing to do with Ki and monk energy. IT's completely different.

On a subjective level, Incarnum's not a very well thought out system and shouldn't be wholesale tacked onto a core class, either, imho... It's also not Psionic and has nothing to do with Psionics. It's in its own sourcebook called Magic of Incarnum. The class you've linked is one of 3.5's many gish classes that take two magic types and mix them together, like how Mystic Thuerge mixes Arcane and Divine.

I don't think Ki needs such a rigid, strict definition OOCly. In the future, also as a subjective statement, could you please make these posts without color blips all over the place? It makes it difficult to read.

PS: Ki can be both Supernatural and Extraordinary. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm See the list of abilities here. Some are supernatural, but others are extraordinary, even ones you might expect to be supernatural, like Diamond Soul, or Perfect Self. I actually think it's an interesting distinction

I agree with Tormak on this one. As a long time player of a monk, I'm not a fan of the idea of setting a solid set ideal as to how monks obtain and control their power. I like to think there are several different ways of achieving the same goal, and it depends on the monastery or individual monk on how they've got there.

The definition of Chakras in our real world and in D&D via Magic of Incarnum are quite different as well. Magic of Incarnum defines Chakras as basically being in the same places where magic items work, and in a way explain why you can't have more than one magic item working in the same place. Personally I believe this makes more sense for the D&D universe.

Chakra binds which you talked about would contradict your proposal of where chakras are. (Such as feet and hands). And the sense behind Chakra binding I believe is binding a magical effect to an area one would normally wear a magic item (and when done, magic items no longer work there because there's already a magic effect in place.)

I do not object to the traditional real world definition of Chakras and Ki being used. Like I said, as I see it it's a matter of training. Vera herself has a rather unique explanation of her powers which is far more practically minded due to how she was trained, as she speaks more of using Ki to manipulate vibrations rather than a more spiritual energy approach.

I personally like ICly (and OOCly) learning of different monks views on Ki and Chakras. Vera doesn't think the speaker is incorrect if their views differ from her own. She just believes it another interpretation. And I think that's how things should remain.

I am one with the Force, the Force is with me.

To each their own fluff.

I'm also one to think fluff like this is player-lead to what extent their PC uses it, or if they use it differently.

However, when we start bordering stuff like Psionics, then we might have to put our foot down and ask for a request. Luckily, before I am met with knee-jerked responses, no actives PCs has strayed to this. It's just an example.

If something is ki based can weapon masters get/use it? They are a ki based class with ki based class features.

It's your fluff. Do it. Why even limit it to any class at this point? Ki for all!

(Please don't take that seriously guys)

All things aside. What needs defined is what Ki does, What it can't do ect. I wont go into it, but there are some seriously fantastic claims out there.

Ki is just another subjective way to fluff things, due to how vague anything is on it, and that I have played a few monks for a good amount of time to get into this topic a lot.

I've got to the point where if asked IC, my character tends to answer simply with that no two monks ki is the same in its limits, directions or boundaries. We may all be able to do certain things, in different ways, it is all down to the individual. It's fact that there are base techniques like Stunning Fist. I've seen PCs treat that as a straight up heavy blow to the head, on the flip side some use pressure points, and again some use ki. Even at base, stuff varies massively. Why take any of that away from them by adding some preset boundary to lore RP.

We have rules as to the effects of on death abilities as far as I'm aware, such as QP or Death Arrow, or Bone Touch, and that's that the ability doesn't perma, regardless of what fancy fluff the players want to do.

Commie wrote:

If something is ki based can weapon masters get/use it? They are a ki based class with ki based class features.

Yes - but it's my opinion that while monk stuff is likely more body centered and 'utilitarian', WM stuff should be more about affecting the outside world or channeled through the weapon. That's me tho.

TormakSaber wrote:

Commie wrote:

If something is ki based can weapon masters get/use it? They are a ki based class with ki based class features.

Yes - but it's my opinion that while monk stuff is likely more body centered and 'utilitarian', WM stuff should be more about affecting the outside world or channeled through the weapon. That's me tho.

Well that's whats nice about 'normalizing' and 'defining' ki.

I don't see why you need to "define" ki to say that two classes who both use ki in their class descriptions can, in fact use ki.

My point is we have already normalized magic here. Even so much as barring the use of conventional spells that exist without having to "fluff" anything.

That's because the setting and the game has normalized magic.

Ki has not been, and honestly doesn't need to be, save to say that "chakra" and incarnum, as well as psionics, have absolutely nothing to do with Ki in our setting.

I've always wanted to steal the concept of chakra or mana for something that would basically be taking arcane magic and channeling it internally. When I think of Ki, being a child of the 90's, I think of DBZ shit: blasting balls of energy, flying, hugely visible auras. That's not at all what D&D's Ki is for the most part; instead, it is a lot more subtle. Thus, this new mana/chakra form of taking arcane energy, internalizing it, and firing it back out in more raw, un-stilted forms would be there for playing things from them there Annie Mays, what with the Narutos, them Bleachers, and the Yu Yu Hackysack.

That being said, I think the concept of chakra points in general is something better left to fluff, only because I feel like it could be relevant for multiple magic systems, not just ki. Maybe arcanists call it something different, maybe divine users call them something different, but the concept of points on the body corresponding to and being used in the rote of using abilities is something I find cool for everyone. Monks, mages, clerics, even ki users like WM.

I don't think we should be encouraging our monks to act like Naruto, Bleach, and Yu Yu Hakusho.

Or that chakra/ki = spells.

TormakSaber wrote:

I don't think we should be encouraging our monks to act like Naruto, Bleach, and Yu Yu Hakusho.

Commie wrote:

Or that chakra/ki = spells.

Did... either of you read my post? I was saying that Ki in D&D is nothing like [listed animoos]. And no where did I say that chakra or ki would be considered a spell.

I said I think the concept of chakra points, points on the body through which someone channels a specific energy, whatever that energy is, is a cool idea that could apply again to a number of concepts. Hence, I'd not want to see Chakra Points be explicitly drafted into lore as something specifically relating to Ki. That would then cut the idea of these points meaning anything to anyone else(I.E., "you don't use Ki, you can't use the concept of chakra points").

And again, if someone wanted to act like [listed weeabooness], my own idea would be something that just takes magic(arcane or divine) and uses it in a different way. That, if anything, is encouraging our mages and clerics to act like anime folk more than monks, who do not have arcane sources or divine sources.

What if we use our ki to empty and become wind

Really though monks who pursue the "wisdom" aspect of monk should be able to work out and build requests. See the new moon for an example.

OpenTheRift wrote:

What if we use our ki to empty and become wind

Really though monks who pursue the "wisdom" aspect of monk should be able to work out and build requests. See the new moon for an example.

I dig high-magic things immensely, I almost peed my pants when the game Divinity: Original Sin had the spell Become Air. It is basically their version of the Concealment buff, but becoming air is a much cooler concept than becoming concealed, whatever that means; I suppose Imp Invis could be roleplayed in a similar fashion, but it wouldn't instill the same references.

I'm intrigued, what do you mean by "monks who pursue the 'wisdom' aspect" and by "able to work out and build requests"? Could you link the new moon?

Opustus wrote:

OpenTheRift wrote:

What if we use our ki to empty and become wind

Really though monks who pursue the "wisdom" aspect of monk should be able to work out and build requests. See the new moon for an example.

I dig high-magic things immensely, I almost peed my pants when the game Divinity: Original Sin had the spell Become Air. It is basically their version of the Concealment buff, but becoming air is a much cooler concept than becoming concealed, whatever that means; I suppose Imp Invis could be roleplayed in a similar fashion, but it wouldn't instill the same references.

I'm intrigued, what do you mean by "monks who pursue the 'wisdom' aspect" and by "able to work out and build requests"? Could you link the new moon?

New moon is Ahsra and Mathus.

Displacement
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location.

The new moons were a group of monks who went deep into wisdom and spell resistance in their builds while also doing a very arduous solipsistic and self imposed reservation from the world. Ultimately they requested a spell like ability that allowed them to strip all spells in a persistent AOE. It was awesome. They worked year(s) for it. they basically could on a whim become null magic fields.

It should also never ever ever ever exist again on Amia.

TormakSaber wrote:

It should also never ever ever ever exist again on Amia.

I wouldn't mind it. Did it have the potential for abuse? Hella. Was it actually broken? Ya you bet your bottom.

But RP isn't about balance. Not everything is a weapon. And even if it is a weapon those who have it don't have to use it. Ahsra and Mathus were really responsible with their power. And their RP defined their parameters. A new moon couldn't come to existence without their nihilists brainwashing and that kept it from dangerous hands.

Ultimately it's just an example of what I meant though. Arguably the most poignant.

RP isn't about balance but as devs I have a responsibility to keep everyone on an even keel and not allow certain people to have actual literal gamebreaking things just because their RP was good.

It was allowed to exist because Letum and Council were responsible. Not the PCs. We shouldn't be making those sorts of decisions or allowing things to exist on those grounds.

Are you saying it is wrong to have imbalance? Or that imbalance must be tempered by the hands that wield it?

I'm saying it's wrong to purposefully introduce imbalance on the condition that it only be given to "Good, responsible players", as defined by the DMs.

I think it's wrong to purposefully introduce imbalance regardless, but I think it's extra wrong to do it simply because you feel those players are 'capable of handling it' or 'responsible'. That's a very dangerous road to walk down.

I feel you on that. So back on track. Fluff stuff like jump widgets and flight animation shouldn't be far off for the right monk to request.

For flight you need wings, shadow jump you need SD or an approved emulation. These are set in stone.

Makes more sense that a monk running 40 mph can leap 30 feet than a 600 pound humanoid flying the same distance.

Not my rules, but that horse has been beaten to death, turned to glue and eaten by a weird kindergartener.

Sure seems like they're willing to change things.

TormakSaber wrote:

I'm saying it's wrong to purposefully introduce imbalance on the condition that it only be given to "Good, responsible players", as defined by the DMs.

I think it's wrong to purposefully introduce imbalance regardless, but I think it's extra wrong to do it simply because you feel those players are 'capable of handling it' or 'responsible'. That's a very dangerous road to walk down.

Yup. Not to mention the new moons specifically simply could not lose against some classes. If they showed up and you were a full cleric or wizard or druid you essentially had to do what they said because you had nothing you could do against them. I think it even depolymorphed you.

It was so dumb, and if something is available to one person it needs to be available to everyone. If you can't trust virtually everyone with content, it should not be around.

Suddenly, we're trying to make sense of something that in of itself has contradicts itself sevenfold and perverts any ideals that are shamanic. I think this topic should be backed off from. If you try to define the stupid mess that is dnd, your going to destroy any and all story and create a Facist environment. Right now, there is cotton candy, water purifiers, and other modern things in the game world which their very existants contradicts the canon of the world. So, why, of all things, destroy something that is actually providing some sort of palpable story to the server?

I think a Ki Jump technique would be cool. I mean, it's not like a hasted monk would be getting anywhere much faster by 'flying' than if he just ran, anyway. And the Flight Widget is really more of a glide/long jump widget in the first place. It's not like characters with wings can mechanically continuously fly (They have to RP it out, I believe).

I recall that I had planned a request for something similar a long while ago, but never got around to it.

On track though, I think it's good to encourage monks to dive deeper into the nature of their abilities, but there are probably ways to do it without restricting others' fluff too!

Abundant Step (Su)
At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down).
Source - SRD
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#abundantStep

I've asked a long time ago about Abundant Step and always been told nope. Shadow jump and flight only. I'm unclear on what the reasoning for that is, but I'd love if they changed it ^.^ Staff right now is different from staff back then, afterall. But I won't get my hopes up, heh.

The flight and SJ rules won't change.

I lied! I did get my hopes up!
*whimper*

I'm pretty sure no more avenues for that will be opened up until we retool our areas to avoid unreachable cliffs. Which we should do anyway, because spawns sometimes get trapped on these cliffs too, leading to problematic situations.

Honestly, before we add any more class-specific widgets, I'd love to see a set of playertool abilities that would be available to everyone by default. One of these would be a Jump ability, which would essentially just be a reverse Rope widget that rolls a strength check verses the vertical and horizontal distance. That solves basically every issue with not proliferating more "teleporting" abilities. But first we'd need to take the proper countermeasures like fixing the tilesets. It would be awesome if there was a way to mechanically enforce no-jump zones like for settlement walls, but honestly, there comes a point where we have to just trust the people that understand what metagaming is and correct those who do not or abuse it. Same as the current Flight and Shadowjump abilities are handled now.

I tried teaching a few people but no one ever got past the "nihilistic brainwashing," and now that Ahsra and Mathus have transcended their mortal skins and become beings of pure water floating in the astral sea or something (<---- this is all canon obv.) no one will ever get their sweet, broken ass abilities that they never abused, much to the chagrin of powergamers everywhere.

That includes you Commie

Commie wrote:

If they showed up and you were a full cleric or wizard or druid you essentially had to do what they said because you had nothing you could do against them. I think it even depolymorphed you.

It was so dumb

exactly that's why there was a time there were no asshole spellcasters or shifters on amia

oh wait

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

I tried teaching a few people but no one ever got past the "nihilistic brainwashing," and now that Ahsra and Mathus have transcended their mortal skins and become beings of pure water floating in the astral sea or something (<---- this is all canon obv.) no one will ever get their sweet, broken ass abilities that they never abused, much to the chagrin of powergamers everywhere.

That includes you Commie

Commie wrote:

If they showed up and you were a full cleric or wizard or druid you essentially had to do what they said because you had nothing you could do against them. I think it even depolymorphed you.

It was so dumb

exactly that's why there was a time there were no asshole spellcasters or shifters on amia

yeah i came on after that.

edit; ah you edited your post before i hit reply

What if the ability came with consequences if used? Think if the person got a temp/perm debuff, a character breaking alignment change that could affect ties with factions or even the ability could slowly destroy the character as used.

AMF should never come back in any way shape or form. It's not a dig at the characters or the players or their RP or anything like this. This is purely from a balance and mechanical standpoint, and has nothing to do with whether or not anyone does or did not deserve it based on any conceivable metric.

It was bad for the game to exist.

Agree, but both AMF, and the players were cool af.

Monks, KI, Chakra Discussion / Proposal

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