Ryriska, my half-devil, was banned from cordor once over a new law someone wanted to push through, that was not even active though. I still took it IC. Ryriska started to make connection. Speak and write letters to PC and NPC. Talked to other PC to convince them to vouch for her not having done any harm. Etc etc.
This doesn't work when DMs don't answer you, no IC or OOC reasons are needed for a ban, and as soon as you're banned no one will talk to you. "You know what you did." "No, I really don't." "Don't be coy." "What?" "You did thing." "No I didn't." "Liar." Ban upheld and extended to entire faction.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
The Wharftown ban literally happened 3 days ago. >.> The original post seems oddly connected to that, as do Commie's extrapolations, but then people are referencing "waiting forever" and "no DM responses." But it's been 3 days. So I'm confused here. Is the arguing about previous bans or the Wharftown ban, or both? Because if it's both, they have to be separate issues. You can't just lump everything together and blame everyone for everything.
The Wharftown ban literally happened 3 days ago. >.> The original post seems oddly connected to that, as do Commie's extrapolations, but then people are referencing "waiting forever" and "no DM responses." But it's been 3 days. So I'm confused here. Is the arguing about previous bans or the Wharftown ban, or both? Because if it's both, they have to be separate issues. You can't just lump everything together and blame everyone for everything.
It's a lot of things. WT was a catalyst. Other ban was standing 5 months with no way to know (it was only posted about on a private forum) and I had to find out ooc from a dm there was a blanket faction ban.
Me bringing attention to it ic caused a bunch of other people to casually realize they were also banned and had been banned for a very long time.
And the handling of those situations, and how the current ban echos that one, well, here we are.
I have spoken with banned individuals on several occasions. Kobra's character in-specifically, Selgeron was banned for a short time and made effort to speak to some one about it and get it removed. Once proper steps were taken IE: fines were paid and a promise not to repeat said actions again else harsher consequences would be levied, then the ban, it was removed.
But when you have factions springing up that are heavily inter twined with city affairs and protecting the city you get blurred lines where dms and the factions pcs need to work together on such cases.
To be honest I don't want Evil Guy A in my face 24/7 who's murdered folks multiple times, destroyed city property and food stores, openly worships and recruits for evil cult and is allowed to walk around cities Scott free. It's not believable- there has to be a line drawn some where.
There have been few cases where I was personally impressed with an evil Pc's attempt to create conflict.
I'd say about 85% of the time it just turned out to be more aggravating as a player behind the screen having to deal with the same tactics and the same tricks over and over and over again. Nothing really new gets brought to the table that the character hasn't dealt with before. What's the point in playing a fixed game? I know how these cards play out and honestly it's a lot of work on my end for lack luster results.
Speaking candidly a lot of evil pc's I've run in to seem to be more sadistic centered wanting to do the things they do 'just cause'. That doesn't interest me as a player and I do not want to be forced to play along with some one 24/7 the same old over done routines.
There needs to be a line drawn some where down the line. There need to be ways people can get a break from having uncouth shoved in their faces. Maybe people aren't interested in playing with that type of evil? You may sit on the out side and wonder why? It's not because people don't want to be challenged. It's be cause they don't enjoy the particular style you are bringing to the table or feel like they've been there done that and that there's nothing particularly new or interesting being brought forth.
_________________
❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
It's a lot of things. WT was a catalyst. Other ban was standing 5 months with no way to know (it was only posted about on a private forum) and I had to find out ooc from a dm there was a blanket faction ban.
Me bringing attention to it ic caused a bunch of other people to casually realize they were also banned and had been banned for a very long time.
And the handling of those situations, and how the current ban echos that one, well, here we are.
Okay but you're literally contradicting yourself there, Commie. They don't echo each other in terms of how they were dealt with forum-wise. One was on a private forum and you weren't aware (and I'm not sure there was DM involvement?), one was on a public forum and you were totally aware (and it's clear that there was DM involvement?). Those are almost completely opposite. So it's clear that some things are different, whether or not they echo each other in terms of IC/OOC justifications.
These are legitimate concerns: - Not being told about one ban (which does not include Wharftown) - Being banned from hubs/not being able to use cart system - Not getting any IC or OOC responses to attempts to resolve older ban (which can't include Wharftown because it's 3 days old)
These are the concerns I'm not convinced are legitimate and the evidence presented does not fully support (as shown by how you contradicted yourself factually, Commie): - Wharftown's ban seeming connected to others with poor justifications - The Fort being targeted unfairly
In the absence of the Dame Alanna, Mayor Garth adds a few names to the list of banned individuals.
(As usual, still allowed to use the cart systems if necessary)
These were banned back in March for killing Caron in the Triumvir, which had nothing to do with Wharfton and are STILL banned from Wharfton. The ban system is messed up and its clear that some players abuse it.
I'm not the one that made the topic, and it's not about a specific ban. It's about the practice of ban forever and forget, never explain, never answer, never acknowledge, never undo that's been common.
While in the old days you could get these undone, recently, if you even knew you were banned, there was no chance.
If we want to get specific, who was told they were banned from WT with this recent faction ban wave? Did any pm's go out, ic or ooc, at all, from DM's or the players involved? The answer is no.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
robbi320 wrote:
Unless Cor'Xak counts, Grove, Fort Summer, Thraandariv/Nec'Perya, Shadowdancer Academy.
There always are more places you can be banned from.
On the other side, HoJo manages to do stuff in cities. He was banned in Wharftown before that Masquerade.
To be honest, Cordor has a population of 15000 people. http://www.amiaworld.net/phpbb3/viewtop ... 23&t=79132 Is the guard really going to identify everyone? Most of all when many places are not guarded? Kohlingen at least guards every entrance, but do they really have the time to search everyone? Or question for that fact? Or even really look at?
Or, cory, how many arrests do you think a Cordorian guard does offscreen? Zero? If that was true, how was anyone ever a guard PC? I remember Runescape having it's own little 4th wall breaking joke. The game world is smaller than the lore world.
HoJo is banned from every City, except Tarkuul. Even Zanshibon.
EDIT:
PassionateShadow wrote:
I have spoken with banned individuals on several occasions. Kobra's character in-specifically, Selgeron was banned for a short time and made effort to speak to some one about it and get it removed. Once proper steps were taken IE: fines were paid and a promise not to repeat said actions again else harsher consequences would be levied, then the ban, it was removed.
But when you have factions springing up that are heavily inter twined with city affairs and protecting the city you get blurred lines where dms and the factions pcs need to work together on such cases.
To be honest I don't want Evil Guy A in my face 24/7 who's murdered folks multiple times, destroyed city property and food stores, openly worships and recruits for evil cult and is allowed to walk around cities Scott free. It's not believable- there has to be a line drawn some where.
There have been few cases where I was personally impressed with an evil Pc's attempt to create conflict.
I'd say about 85% of the time it just turned out to be more aggravating as a player behind the screen having to deal with the same tactics and the same tricks over and over and over again. Nothing really new gets brought to the table that the character hasn't dealt with before. What's the point in playing a fixed game? I know how these cards play out and honestly it's a lot of work on my end for lack luster results.
Speaking candidly a lot of evil pc's I've run in to seem to be more sadistic centered wanting to do the things they do 'just cause'. That doesn't interest me as a player and I do not want to be forced to play along with some one 24/7 the same old over done routines.
There needs to be a line drawn some where down the line. There need to be ways people can get a break from having uncouth shoved in their faces. Maybe people aren't interested in playing with that type of evil? You may sit on the out side and wonder why? It's not because people don't want to be challenged. It's be cause they don't enjoy the particular style you are bringing to the table or feel like they've been there done that and that there's nothing particularly new or interesting being brought forth.
Passionate, all HoJo does is "just cause". His attack in WharfTown, his attack on the Kampo's Storehouse Ship, his constant "sendings" to PCs. The lack of respect by his newspaper, the lack of respect towards character issues.. I'm sorry if the roleplay I offer doesn't interest you, and I'll make sure not to put Matthew through the same old routines!
EDIT part 2:
Only place HoJo has been banned from, and offered any sort of "opportunity" is Endirs / Fort, and they just asked for a Fine. But, this of course vary on the Crime, but still.
_________________
Auri: Champion of Bahamut
Last edited by LibrisMortis_666 on Tue, Dec 20 2016, 7:07 AM, edited 2 times in total.
It wasn't for killing Caron. You can't presume to know reasons for bans if you never asked, and just making up reasons based on passive aggressive ideals revolving your own character, CCL. He isn't citing anything specific so don't make this into an argument.
But in general, I agree with that kind of middle ground. A temporary banishment would be a good system to adhere to in general - like Cordor did, as the example I mentioned earlier, with the addition of a fine established somewhere. Outside of obvious circumstances, or repeated offenses. And the usual blanket religion or race ban where it's true to the place it comes from. But then again you have to go through the effort of getting /everyone/ to agree to that kind of establishment.
But in general, I agree with that kind of middle ground. A temporary banishment would be a good system to adhere to in general - like Cordor did, as the example I mentioned earlier, with the addition of a fine established somewhere. Outside of obvious circumstances, or repeated offenses. And the usual blanket religion or race ban where it's true to the place it comes from. But then again you have to go through the effort of getting /everyone/ to agree to that kind of establishment.
I agree.
I think we should also, those of us whom maintain banlists, to go, like somewhat soon, and take the time to manually review, unsticky/resticky good banlists with actual info.
Feel free to just look at this template. There should be no question as to whats going on with anyone and a record is kept when people are removed.
every banlist OP should look like that. new info should not only be 17 odd posts down among random spatterings and re-dos all over and no notifications sent out.
Joined: 23 Sep 2012 Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)
Keep in mind Ostland is just really xenophobic. There are no DM enforced bans except Banites due to IC events. And if you're not human, you're just going to have a bad time.
_________________ Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand
Re: CCL: Hopefully those players can speak for themselves. Was the implication that it's my OOC fault those three got banned and still are? It looks like STGS kinda cleared that up. So you know, Caron didn't do anything personally to get anyone banned from anywhere. That wouldn't be any secret! He's like a super bitter boy about his own bans which are almost as extensive as HoJo (except lol HoJo got banned from Zanshibon? That's hardcore). And honestly I've never really seriously enforced bans OOCly nor have I ever really gotten butthurt about getting them.
Re: other issues raised: Commie, you did contradict yourself! It's confusing when you do that as you're trying to argue for server-wide attention to an issue. There are literally opposite facts in situations you're pointing at, and then you're saying they're echoing one another. Clearly, we don't agree. The facts you see are not the same facts I see.
There could be an endless round of questions to answer yours, by the way: Is there a time limit as to when people have to OOCly notify you? Could a public topic count as you being notified, in some manner? Did you give enough time to notify you or did you see the post within the day and not even give Wharftown a chance to handle it differently than others? Is it really up to you what banlists are required to look like and how often they have to be maintained? The point is that you contradicted yourself as it pertains to Wharftown. It's part of why bringing up specific things publicly isn't a good idea. I think there's some solid points and concerns overall, but I am not swayed by your words as to it being targeted at you/your faction OOCly or that Wharftown is part of a problem for everyone everywhere and that there's singular people responsible for it OOC. That just sounds like drama.
I think that bans can be looked at, but I also think The Fort may have some PR problems. >.> It could be a nice compromise to ask that people execute temporary bans before full-time bans, so as to further conflict RP. I could see that being a useful decision. The Team might be amenable to it. I suppose we will have to wait and see!
Re: other issues raised: Commie, you did contradict yourself! It's confusing when you do that as you're trying to argue for server-wide attention to an issue. There are literally opposite facts in situations you're pointing at, and then you're saying they're echoing one another. Clearly, we don't agree. The facts you see are not the same facts I see.
There could be an endless round of questions to answer yours, by the way: Is there a time limit as to when people have to OOCly notify you? Could a public topic count as you being notified, in some manner? Did you give enough time to notify you or did you see the post within the day and not even give Wharftown a chance to handle it differently than others? Is it really up to you what banlists are required to look like and how often they have to be maintained? The point is that you contradicted yourself as it pertains to Wharftown. It's part of why bringing up specific things publicly isn't a good idea. I think there's some solid points and concerns overall, but I am not swayed by your words as to it being targeted at you/your faction OOCly or that Wharftown is part of a problem for everyone everywhere and that there's singular people responsible for it OOC. That just sounds like drama.
I think that bans can be looked at, but I also think The Fort may have some PR problems. >.> It could be a nice compromise to ask that people execute temporary bans before full-time bans, so as to further conflict RP. I could see that being a useful decision. The Team might be amenable to it. I suppose we will have to wait and see!
What facts am I not seeing here? Let me know. I'm talking about the Forts ban from Kohl and WT because they are perfect examples of bans done bad and are public as they have to be as it's banning an entire faction. Here are the issues with both of those bans;
1. No communication 2. No listed duration 3. Done without any involvement from the PC's actually banned (no chance to explain/defend) 4. Was then applied to an entire faction... without any communication to individuals who are having to find out on their own, and who are then asking ooc if they count and are banned because they just hang out sometimes... leading me to; 5. Zero clarification and consistency. Does a kohl ban mean just inside the city or anywhere Silver Dragons are present? Depends on which PC you ask. Can we use lamps or the cart service? Depends on which PC you ask.
Both incidents had all of these things, and others have come forward with similar issues with other bans, it's a problem, server-wide.
As for the time limit to notify? When you ban someone or ban a group, send a pm asap and cc the dm's. Just say "hold on" ooc and type that shit out if you're barring people from entry that arn't physically present. Takes like 20 seconds. It does not take hours days weeks or months. Get a DM to help if you need it; if you're in the position to ban someone you should be prepared to handle this, it's part of the responsibility of authority.
As for the structure of the lists themselves? Banlists are super important so the information should be concise, presentable, and written in such a way so that when someone else has to start maintaining it after you don't do it anymore they know what the fuck is happening with people on the list.
And yeah I'm pushing for time limited bans and proper communication as bans are actual server rules (ie you get in trouble for breaking them) so I thoroughly believe efficient and effective communication is paramount here.
It wasn't for killing Caron. You can't presume to know reasons for bans if you never asked, and just making up reasons based on passive aggressive ideals revolving your own character, CCL. He isn't citing anything specific so don't make this into an argument.
But in general, I agree with that kind of middle ground. A temporary banishment would be a good system to adhere to in general - like Cordor did, as the example I mentioned earlier, with the addition of a fine established somewhere. Outside of obvious circumstances, or repeated offenses. And the usual blanket religion or race ban where it's true to the place it comes from. But then again you have to go through the effort of getting /everyone/ to agree to that kind of establishment.
Excuse me, Sammy but don't assume to know what I was thinking. I was pointing out that there are people on there months later and those were people who were involved in things that had nothing to do with Wharfton. If i have something to say about my character, I'll come right out and say it. So please, step it down with the accusations. I wasn't being passive aggressive about anything.
Also of note; I had a PC banned from a city. I sent ic letters (via pm's) to the PC individual responsible for it. It took 3 months (iirc) of correspondence before I just had to go over their head and get a DMPC to do it, which they did instantly after hearing what I had to say ic.
"These were banned back in March for killing Caron in the Triumvir,"
I dont presume to know what you're thinking, you literally said it. I'm not trying to be insulting or rude, I'm just cautioning you not to make a dramatic argument out of something that's meant to better the server. We were addressing this topic en masse. I think bringing specific examples is fine, if you actually have the knowledge that comes with talking about it when you're using it as a leg to stand on for your argument.
You know exactly what you're doing, which is making an assumption. And I would totally understand your point of view, had you actually asked about the details of it instead of just saying something without knowing its true. Or stating that it was your opinion, not actually backed up by fact or even a lack of a bother to respond by the offending parties, which in that case its by all means fair to state your opinion. Instead, you're essentially just calling people out. But I suppose that might have been your prerogative.
Either way I shouldn't respond to this baiting, it's bad for the both of us, because we know this will go in circles. If you want to address something with me, do it through PMs or Skype, you've had no problem with that before.
My parting comment is, I think episodic bans would (in theory) be grounds to create meaningful RP as well as a way to enact consequences where people feel there are none, in a fair way that meets the needs of both sides. I'm not sure it'll ever become a server rule, but if people come to accept it as a majority, that's good enough imo.
As for communicating the bans, I do agree since the last thread about the Kohlingen misshap that people should in general make a bigger habit of explaining the reasoning behind it. Or at least, PM the person with the details and then just general need-to-know things on the forums proper. Big threads like these are usually a red flag that there's something we need to compromise or work on, otherwise people will just continue to get pissed off at each other. We don't need more reasons for that, now!
As for communicating the bans, I do agree since the last thread about the Kohlingen misshap that people should in general make a bigger habit of explaining the reasoning behind it. Or at least, PM the person with the details and then just general need-to-know things on the forums proper. Big threads like these are usually a red flag that there's something we need to compromise or work on, otherwise people will just continue to get pissed off at each other. We don't need more reasons for that, now!
So can we call an agreement here?
1. Bans should be temporary at first (a week for minor, a month for major as an example) and players should be given a chance to rectify their behavior. 2. Bans should be clearly communicated to all parties, and so should the reason; players should always know why. 3. Faction bans (banning a faction) are a no-go except for sanctioned (run past/approved by the DM team and participating players so they have an 'out' if they don't like it) conflict like officially declaring war as a faction. 4. Ban lists should be better maintained on the forum. 5. If you have a faction area (ex Kohl Keep, the Fort) none of the above rules apply, except for clear communication, when it applies to that faction area specifically. 6. If you ban someone you need to give them channels to communicate assuming those channels arn't just used for further IC harassment.
Re: CCL: Hopefully those players can speak for themselves. Was the implication that it's my OOC fault those three got banned and still are? It looks like STGS kinda cleared that up. So you know, Caron didn't do anything personally to get anyone banned from anywhere. That wouldn't be any secret! He's like a super bitter boy about his own bans which are almost as extensive as HoJo (except lol HoJo got banned from Zanshibon? That's hardcore). And honestly I've never really seriously enforced bans OOCly nor have I ever really gotten butthurt about getting them.
No, Estara, there was no implication on anything towards you. Again, my entire reason of posting that was to show that there are people who have been banned from places without events actually having occurred there. Why you and Sammy seem to instantly get defensive and assume I'm implying something or making accusations is beyond me. You all should know me by now; I'm not shy about telling someone what I think, for better or for worse. In the case of ic bans, I think there has to be some better way of handling them. I know on another server, instead of banning since it was so hard to enforce, players were allowed to choose between a huge fine (like -really- steep), or to have to walk around for a specific period of time with a weight in their inventory that is not drop or tradable. This is a tough one, really.
CCL have you ever been banned from anything? I would be surprised if you had.
Thanks for sticking up for us.
Rosary, Rania and Saugine were banned from Kohlingen for a day for leaving prank items in the city and then not picking them up fast enough to suit the npc guard. So yeah, hilariously Rania has been banned for pranking. Maybe leaving skeleton knuckles, that thigh bone from the wastelands and other necromatic items there wasn't the best idea
CCL have you ever been banned from anything? I would be surprised if you had.
Thanks for sticking up for us.
Rosary, Rania and Saugine were banned from Kohlingen for a day for leaving prank items in the city and then not picking them up fast enough to suit the npc guard. So yeah, hilariously Rania has been banned for pranking. Maybe leaving skeleton knuckles, that thigh bone from the wastelands and other necromatic items there wasn't the best idea
1. Bans should be temporary at first (a week for minor, a month for major as an example) and players should be given a chance to rectify their behavior.
Only point we should clarify. It really does depend on the reasoning on the ban. Hell, it's been a long while since I've seen a PC be executed for their crimes, it does seem the ban is the go-to these days. But yeah, hope cities and the like move toward temporary bans for lesser crimes rather than a blanket perm ban, but if they've outright gone and murdered someone, should be a perm ban (again, with the ability to communicate via some sort of channel).
Otherwise, I agree with your other points.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
1. Bans should be temporary at first (a week for minor, a month for major as an example) and players should be given a chance to rectify their behavior.
Only point we should clarify. It really does depend on the reasoning on the ban. Hell, it's been a long while since I've seen a PC be executed for their crimes, it does seem the ban is the go-to these days. But yeah, hope cities and the like move toward temporary bans for lesser crimes rather than a blanket perm ban, but if they've outright gone and murdered someone, should be a perm ban (again, with the ability to communicate via some sort of channel).
Otherwise, I agree with your other points.
Seconded.
But like I said, the only remaining issue is having everyone adhere to this stuff. It might be worth it to draft it up and send it to the team, ask them to consider making these rules across the server (because they usually don't touch threads like these, not that I blame them). It would help the legitimacy of it.
Until then, I'll personally try to champion this kind of resolution inside of factions I'm involved in. Because I feel as though I have been part of the problem, so it's only fair that I attempt to become part of the solution.
1. Bans should be temporary at first (a week for minor, a month for major as an example) and players should be given a chance to rectify their behavior.
Only point we should clarify. It really does depend on the reasoning on the ban. Hell, it's been a long while since I've seen a PC be executed for their crimes, it does seem the ban is the go-to these days. But yeah, hope cities and the like move toward temporary bans for lesser crimes rather than a blanket perm ban, but if they've outright gone and murdered someone, should be a perm ban (again, with the ability to communicate via some sort of channel).
Otherwise, I agree with your other points.
Seconded.
But like I said, the only remaining issue is having everyone adhere to this stuff. It might be worth it to draft it up and send it to the team, ask them to consider making these rules across the server (because they usually don't touch threads like these, not that I blame them). It would help the legitimacy of it.
Until then, I'll personally try to champion this kind of resolution inside of factions I'm involved in. Because I feel as though I have been part of the problem, so it's only fair that I attempt to become part of the solution.
yeah i pretty much assumed if you walked into town and shoved a broken bottle in someones eye and 20 people saw you that would qualify for more then a month off.
but it's case by case. and yeah I think this could be championed, again, starting with a re-evaluation of current bans in factions where people want to see this change hold sway.
These were banned back in March for killing Caron in the Triumvir, which had nothing to do with Wharfton and are STILL banned from Wharfton. The ban system is messed up and its clear that some players abuse it.
You mean kinda like how Tempo is banned from the isle of unread; for what? Running around the woods stripping?
_________________
❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
"Boring tactics" "Same old same old" "I don't want to deal with it" these are really sour views of evil, and as I initially stated they're perpetuated by our ban culture. You will never see an evil character outside of a raw in your face conflict if you don't give them the opportunity to do something different. IE talk, converse, be something other than a complete degenerate out in the wilderness. Give people a chance, let this be a community and not a schism between good/neutral/friends and the outcast evil.
It also lends itself to the homogenization of the server, if you can't play non-accepted classes/races/alignments as defined by ban system you're going to slowly lose the variety you've had, which only further perpetuates a singular view of the "evil archetype". Give people a chance, have a little faith in humanity end of the day behind the screen we all get up each morning like you. I don't wake up after playing an evil character and say: "So who's fuckin day can I ruin today" In honesty every plot idea I come up with on Amia is subjected to the question of whether it'll create new plot or intrigue across the board, something enjoyable to all who willingly partake.
Who knows, might learn something about your character, or yourself, or the people you barely get to RP with.
Reading all of this stuff, most of these problems could have been rectified by people communicating. Also players taking ownership of IC things like bans rather than needing the somewhat overwhelmed staff to inform people of punishments.
Commie sets out a great baseline for 'ban mechanics' if you have to issue them.
Personally I'd rather see people use alternative punishments, like flogging, forced labour or the stocks. . . Public things that make people RP consequences, rather than:-
'LOCKED FACTION DOOR SAYS NO TO YOUR FUN'.
It would also mean some understanding from other players that if someone is RPing a punishment like the stocks, not interacting with them if you wander past is really bad for the server. Toss some fruit at them. Be outraged at their treatment. Point and laugh. Let them emote a response. Don't do the default wander past in silence thing. . .
Re: CCL: No assumptions were made by me. Sammy pointed to your direct quote and I asked a question. You seem to still think you know why people who aren't you were banned even though someone actually qualified (a DM at the time and current wharftown defender) to know specified it wasn't the case, so there's not much left to say there. Those players can check with DMs if they have feelings about it. Your specific instances did nothing to further your argument (?) despite Commie's gratitude for you.
Re: Commie:
1. No communication
Not true, as discussed above. Wharftown made it public forum communication (which is communication) and maybe didn't even get a chance to tell you personally because you flamed this thread about it. So there are no grounds to take this as fact in that instance. The case where it may pertain to is Kohlingen (I don't know, I'm taking your word).
2. No listed duration
If there is not an end date, it is logical that it is until further notice. A duration is not a rule so to claim they did something wrong by not giving a duration is not a fact, it is a complaint. The only fact is one does not have to state a duration and it can be "until further notice" as the situation currently stands, both IC and OOC. It may be unfair but it does not mean anyone factually did anything wrong.
3. Done without any involvement from the PC's actually banned (no chance to explain/defend)
Since when was this ever a thing? People get banned without a chance to defend upfront ICly all the time. That's like saying a judge can't put someone in jail until the trial is over in the real world. Silly. They can and do all the time. It's their jurisdiction and if IC they have a reason to believe you need to be out and you're not a citizen? You're out. This is not a requirement and never should be. Not every settlement is democratic, for good reason, and even in democracies non-citizens get much less power. I will never think this should be a server wide rule. Ever.
4. Was then applied to an entire faction... without any communication to individuals who are having to find out on their own, and who are then asking ooc if they count and are banned because they just hang out sometimes... leading me to;
They should've asked IC first. If they didn't, this is partially the fault of those in the confusing middle grounds of factions. Check in game and play the game before jumping OOC and freaking out. Once again, with Kohlingen it might be different than with Wharftown.
5. Zero clarification and consistency. Does a kohl ban mean just inside the city or anywhere Silver Dragons are present? Depends on which PC you ask. Can we use lamps or the cart service? Depends on which PC you ask.
This is a real concern. This is the only factual legitimate concern that applies to both situations in this list of five. You would have done better to stick to the three I listed. I would guess that the situation stands as whatever is "in the gates" for now is a banned area as that's how it's usually run, but you should be able to get clarification, otherwise that's a misstep of the Team and the settlements.
This is what I mean about disagreeing on facts. Your list of facts are literally not all facts. They are your opinions. So are your opinions on how seriously banlists should be updated and taken care of and how fast people are required to respond to you. You might want to think about what you can compromise as much as you're asking others to. That is why I'm having you separate the things out. And why I'm dissecting the opinion part of things from the facts. And ignoring the gossip part. To help you, and to point out where you're not making sense.
I do not represent the Fort, Kohlingen, Wharftown or the DM team currently, so I'm really just giving feedback. I have little investment other than a flickering flame of desire to see if these conversations really can find resolutions or if it will result in yet another deadlock of frustration on all sides because people refuse to take their own accountability. I'm just grateful I have none to take, since I'm not involved whatsoever. That part is definitely refreshing.
Lastly, Strom, you're operating under the assumption those alternative punishments would be respected. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just pointing it out. It may not go as you imagine, not just on the side of passers by.
That is possible but I'd rather continue to operate on the hope of positive change. The alternative is accept entropy and become another jaded, angry forum ghost.
As Selgoron's player, I can with full confidence state that his banishment from Cordor and Wharftown was fully deserved. In the case of Wharftown, he didn't just kill Caron, he also murdered Iim, Fymor, and Drusus, and even later that day brutalized Drusus' face again. In the case of Cordor, he was there with intent to murder someone when he could get away with it. There wasn't direct proof, but given how he's an unrepentant murderer with many prior in other jurisdictions, it was fully logical to assume he was a danger of keep around. I'm still amazed he is allowed in Kohlingen.
1. Bans should be temporary at first (a week for minor, a month for major as an example) and players should be given a chance to rectify their behavior. 2. Bans should be clearly communicated to all parties, and so should the reason; players should always know why. 3. Faction bans (banning a faction) are a no-go except for sanctioned (run past/approved by the DM team and participating players so they have an 'out' if they don't like it) conflict like officially declaring war as a faction. 4. Ban lists should be better maintained on the forum. 5. If you have a faction area (ex Kohl Keep, the Fort) none of the above rules apply, except for clear communication, when it applies to that faction area specifically. 6. If you ban someone you need to give them channels to communicate assuming those channels arn't just used for further IC harassment.
Am I missing anything or are we cool?
As much as I understand that you're going for increased RP between people, I only see these "guidelines" being utterly useless and contrived IC. If someone is certain that you're a threat, why can they only ban you temporarily? What IC justification is there? Why should players who have banned PCs be the ones to determine the validity of their PC's ban? Why do you need to have it spelled out in order for it to be legitimate? Furthermore, why should they spell it out for you IC? If they don't like you IC and feel that you are deserving of such a ban, they can be jerks (or just uncaring of your feelings) IC without people jumping on the players OOC because they think they're also being jerks.
I am personally not a fan of yet more OOC barriers to RP. Which is what this is. It just shifts the barrier from the person being banned to the person who's banning. If people have legitimate reasons to ban you, then there's no reason you shouldn't just be banned. It's not like people sit around and go "So! Who's day should we muck up today by banning them arbitrarily?"
I'm all about making sure everyone who's banned is informed and taking better care of the lists. But I am not supportive of the other OOC measures that force defending PCs from actually defending their people IC from whatever threat they perceive to be a threat.
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I don't know, maybe because gods of justice and their worshipers should gather evidence and speak to the individual before banning them forever with no chance of proving they are not a threat to the city. Then again people that go to a fantasy world to just emulate popular western real world religions are a bit daft and boring.
I don't know, maybe because gods of justice and their worshipers should gather evidence and speak to the individual before banning them forever with no chance of proving they are not a threat to the city. Then again people that go to a fantasy world to just emulate popular western real world religions are a bit daft and boring.
Why do we have to assume that they're banned forever with no chance of proving they are not a threat to the city? We have at least one reformed Banite in our ranks. Nothing is irreversible. The assumptions are the only things that are irritating people. Just because reversal is not immediately obvious doesn't mean it can't happen. People just tend not to keep trying after the first few attempts to make amends. Atonement and amends should not be a quick process, especially if you're untrusted as a murderer or something. You have to actually try. With more than just words and letters.
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Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
Why would anyone keep trying after doing something a few times with no positive results? That's retarded. I've played this server long enough to know the players and their unwillingness to change. Quit setting up people to fail and trudge through miles of shit just so they can be on equal grounds. Play good to play good, not to beat and bully people. When you have a city based around three lawful good gods, you should conduct yourself in a manner that shows such. When people are exiled it isn't done as lightly as it is on amia. It takes evidence, arguments, counter-arguments, and finally a confrontation to pass judgement. Tyr and Torm demand this, while Ilmater teaches to help absolutely anyone who needs it. Kinda hard to help someone if they can't seek you out without a tell isn't it? Kohlingen has always suffered from inability to play nobles and knights as the highly educated and proper people they ought to be, preferring petty squablers with big attitudes. When that is just one or two it's great and creates points of internal contention within the group, but when all the king's court is a bunch of dumbfucks the only point of internal contention is what method of suicide should I use to avoid these people in the future. Quit telling everyone else to change to suit the environment you perpetuate. It'll shake things up and maybe end the same boring shit that's gone on for a decade.
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Last edited by Akhlys on Tue, Dec 20 2016, 15:14 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Righto, this shitting on other players ends here or this thread gets closed and the title gets an ironic meaning. That goes especially towards you Akhlys.
_________________ Playing as: Aleana Xiloscient: Wherever the winds take her. Jealesyl Truesong: A voice in the dark DM Prometheus: Bringing you fire
1. Bans should be temporary at first (a week for minor, a month for major as an example) and players should be given a chance to rectify their behavior. 2. Bans should be clearly communicated to all parties, and so should the reason; players should always know why. 3. Faction bans (banning a faction) are a no-go except for sanctioned (run past/approved by the DM team and participating players so they have an 'out' if they don't like it) conflict like officially declaring war as a faction. 4. Ban lists should be better maintained on the forum. 5. If you have a faction area (ex Kohl Keep, the Fort) none of the above rules apply, except for clear communication, when it applies to that faction area specifically. 6. If you ban someone you need to give them channels to communicate assuming those channels arn't just used for further IC harassment.
Am I missing anything or are we cool?
As much as I understand that you're going for increased RP between people, I only see these "guidelines" being utterly useless and contrived IC. If someone is certain that you're a threat, why can they only ban you temporarily? What IC justification is there? Why should players who have banned PCs be the ones to determine the validity of their PC's ban? Why do you need to have it spelled out in order for it to be legitimate? Furthermore, why should they spell it out for you IC? If they don't like you IC and feel that you are deserving of such a ban, they can be jerks (or just uncaring of your feelings) IC without people jumping on the players OOC because they think they're also being jerks.
I am personally not a fan of yet more OOC barriers to RP. Which is what this is. It just shifts the barrier from the person being banned to the person who's banning. If people have legitimate reasons to ban you, then there's no reason you shouldn't just be banned. It's not like people sit around and go "So! Who's day should we muck up today by banning them arbitrarily?"
I'm all about making sure everyone who's banned is informed and taking better care of the lists. But I am not supportive of the other OOC measures that force defending PCs from actually defending their people IC from whatever threat they perceive to be a threat.
consider that it's another person sitting on a computer at the other end of that character and being told you're about to be pvp flagged and killed for breaking a rule you had no idea you were in violation of for being part of a faction you arn't even in is dumb as hell.
it's also not remotely realistic to just bar anyone that's a possible 'threat' from a city unless you're running a settlement in North Korea mode. Does the US prevent entry to people from Russia? Nope.
addressing this bit specifically;
Quote:
I am personally not a fan of yet more OOC barriers to RP. Which is what this is. It just shifts the barrier from the person being banned to the person who's banning. If people have legitimate reasons to ban you, then there's no reason you shouldn't just be banned. It's not like people sit around and go "So! Who's day should we muck up today by banning them arbitrarily?"
there's no rp when
letters don't get an answer ic questions don't get an answer any attempt at clarification gets ignored pc's ignore you ban remains you don't know what you even did, or if it was slapped on you because of the friends someone thinks you have.
look at this example again;
Commie wrote:
Also of note; I had a PC banned from a city. I sent ic letters (via pm's) to the PC individual responsible for it. It took 3 months (iirc) of correspondence before I just had to go over their head and get a DMPC to do it, which they did instantly after hearing what I had to say ic.
The radio silence on these matters is deafening.
The replies I got to those letters were nothing but stalling. There was no RP. Then it got overturned instantly as soon as I went to a DM.
Again, city bans, not faction bans, should require DM oversight, because it's gotten totally out of hand.
people don't even know who they are banning at this point.
Quote:
If they don't like you IC and feel that you are deserving of such a ban, they can be jerks (or just uncaring of your feelings) IC without people jumping on the players OOC because they think they're also being jerks.
Well
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Now, city bans, should of course not be willy nilly like "guard X doesn't like your nose". Ideally city bans should also be reviewed by a DM as the key rule organism of a city is usually still DM controlled. (I exclude factions here, naturally)
and it's not happening as far as I can tell, due to the lack of any notification.
Not true, as discussed above. Wharftown made it public forum communication (which is communication) and maybe didn't even get a chance to tell you personally because you flamed this thread about it. So there are no grounds to take this as fact in that instance. The case where it may pertain to is Kohlingen (I don't know, I'm taking your word).
Updating a post, or in Kohls case, editing a post when there's 0 way to know the post was edited, and the post had not changed since 2014, is not proper notification. "you know you are" is not enough to determine who and who isn't hit with a faction ban.
Notification needs to be at absolute minimum, a forum pm, along with an OOC blurb and a copy sent to the DM's.
Estara wrote:
2. No listed duration
If there is not an end date, it is logical that it is until further notice. A duration is not a rule so to claim they did something wrong by not giving a duration is not a fact, it is a complaint. The only fact is one does not have to state a duration and it can be "until further notice" as the situation currently stands, both IC and OOC. It may be unfair but it does not mean anyone factually did anything wrong.
Eternal bans for non-crimes are the issue here. People on those banlists have been banned for literal years and nobody can even tell you why anymore; they're just banned. Nobody even knows what they did. You deserve to know what you did wrong and how long you're being punished for. Basic decency here.
Estara wrote:
3. Done without any involvement from the PC's actually banned (no chance to explain/defend)
Since when was this ever a thing?
Since recently. It's being done now because if you don't know what it is you did, it's impossible to contest it.
Estara wrote:
People get banned without a chance to defend upfront ICly all the time. That's like saying a judge can't put someone in jail until the trial is over in the real world. Silly. They can and do all the time. It's their jurisdiction and if IC they have a reason to believe you need to be out and you're not a citizen? You're out. This is not a requirement and never should be. Not every settlement is democratic, for good reason, and even in democracies non-citizens get much less power. I will never think this should be a server wide rule. Ever.
Jail exists for people that are awaiting trial; it's hold. I hate to bust out amarice again but;
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Now, city bans, should of course not be willy nilly like "guard X doesn't like your nose". Ideally city bans should also be reviewed by a DM as the key rule organism of a city is usually still DM controlled. (I exclude factions here, naturally)
And then Jes, a proponent of the current ban system;
Jes wrote:
Furthermore, why should they spell it out for you IC? If they don't like you IC and feel that you are deserving of such a ban, they can be jerks (or just uncaring of your feelings) IC without people jumping on the players OOC because they think they're also being jerks.
Banning someone for being a jerk, from a city, is full on BS.
That's why it's important to know the reason.
Estara wrote:
4. Was then applied to an entire faction... without any communication to individuals who are having to find out on their own, and who are then asking ooc if they count and are banned because they just hang out sometimes... leading me to;
They should've asked IC first. If they didn't, this is partially the fault of those in the confusing middle grounds of factions. Check in game and play the game before jumping OOC and freaking out. Once again, with Kohlingen it might be different than with Wharftown.
Was five months with Kohl, I was only told and then it was OOC by a DM. No other members were told. WT has sent 0 notices as well. Going into a settlement you're in w/o a DM over you is breaking a server rule, that's totally ooc, and that's why people are so upset by this.
Estara wrote:
5. Zero clarification and consistency. Does a kohl ban mean just inside the city or anywhere Silver Dragons are present? Depends on which PC you ask. Can we use lamps or the cart service? Depends on which PC you ask.
This is a real concern. This is the only factual legitimate concern that applies to both situations in this list of five. You would have done better to stick to the three I listed. I would guess that the situation stands as whatever is "in the gates" for now is a banned area as that's how it's usually run, but you should be able to get clarification, otherwise that's a misstep of the Team and the settlements.
No, they all apply. The Kohl banlist has no indication it was updated. Last post was 2014.
I'm on it. There isn't even an edit date for crying out loud. How can you say there was proper notification?
Estara wrote:
This is what I mean about disagreeing on facts. Your list of facts are literally not all facts. They are your opinions. So are your opinions on how seriously banlists should be updated and taken care of and how fast people are required to respond to you. You might want to think about what you can compromise as much as you're asking others to. That is why I'm having you separate the things out. And why I'm dissecting the opinion part of things from the facts. And ignoring the gossip part. To help you, and to point out where you're not making sense.
I do not represent the Fort, Kohlingen, Wharftown or the DM team currently, so I'm really just giving feedback. I have little investment other than a flickering flame of desire to see if these conversations really can find resolutions or if it will result in yet another deadlock of frustration on all sides because people refuse to take their own accountability. I'm just grateful I have none to take, since I'm not involved whatsoever. That part is definitely refreshing.
Lastly, Strom, you're operating under the assumption those alternative punishments would be respected. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just pointing it out. It may not go as you imagine, not just on the side of passers by.
No they're facts. Updating a forum post w/o any indication there was an edit, or just making some base post in a cities sub-forum is not sufficient notification. Not responding to ic and ig or ic pm's about the issue is also unacceptable.
The global vague bans with no oversight based on who knows what with zero notification is the whole cause of this situation.
As I said, when you go to contest the bans, often you get literally nothing but silence. No reply pm, no ability to set up a meeting, no conversation, you never know what you did, what your group did, it's total radio silence for months until you drag a DM in and get it overturned almost instantly.
Joined: 17 Dec 2013 Location: Just arrived from Korriban by Fury class Imperial Interceptor
Shadowfiend wrote:
But then again you're extremely resourceful and popular You have a lot going for you. There are other people, new players or old players returning (like me) that don't share the same opportunities. With the wrong timezone it can be hard enough to engage in rp as it is, even more so if you get banned from half of the factions.
D'awww thanks!
Seriously though, part of the reason Rith'tar got banned from Nec'perya was because I went looking for RP for him. Doh! I can't tell you how many days, weeks went by when the only way he got any RP was by lurking out in caverns hoping to catch other players hunting. And even then they either wanted to PVP or ran like hell. Please don't think all of you chaffing under getting banned from several places are alone.
Also, remember that your race, deity, alignment and ACTIONS factor into how others react to you. If you are seen with someone considered an enemy of the city... BAM! You could be banned. For all the city folks know you're a spy. Why take the chance?
As for the time limit on bans... OMG if that were in effect when the Lolthites had Nec'perya, Rith'tar would waltz into Nec'perya, get crash tackled by the first PC to see him then chained and flayed!
Better to RP your way back in imho. And even if you don't know why you were banned you can still RP your way back in. Send flowers, offer services, camp outside the main gates... I've been known to send a tell asking if the character might be found elsewhere at some point so my character can catch them.
What I do know is badgering other players usually leads to being ignored. Hence I go and find something else to do for a bit then come back. Food for thought.
CrazyCatLady wrote:
SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
In the absence of the Dame Alanna, Mayor Garth adds a few names to the list of banned individuals. (As usual, still allowed to use the cart systems if necessary)
These were banned back in March for killing Caron in the Triumvir, which had nothing to do with Wharfton and are STILL banned from Wharfton. The ban system is messed up and its clear that some players abuse it.
Hey, we all know this was for killing Iim'mur'ss once and Drusus... twice! And Winya /still/ hasn't replied to the letters from the Kelemvorites about Drusus's KOS ban from Winya /grounds/ not just the city. Which I forgot about until just now so thanks for the reminder.
_________________
2015 Mr. AMIA with the Fabulous Estara ~ 2015 Best Developed SOB Character: Rith'tar
I've got a good one: Velden has been dead for like two years and I'm pretty sure he's still on almost every banlist (though I know Bendir crossed his name out). Unless they cleaned them recently. Most banlists become an archive of retired PCs with only a few present hot buttons.
On topic: when the DM team underwent a campaign "funnelling PCs to hubs" the ban system should have been overhauled. Bans are easy to get and hard to remove. Since server population remains a problem but bans can't be dispensed of due to their fulfilling a need (maintaining the pretense of civilised law, and thus immersion), I'd say there are two viable solutions:
1. Take the power of bans out of PCs entirely, no matter who sits in the big chair. 2. Make it more desirable to not be in areas under some sort of sovereign power.
Righto, this shitting on other players ends here or this thread gets closed and the title gets an ironic meaning. That goes especially towards you Akhlys.
He's right though. In my time back, and especially as a DM, culture towards banning has changed. I know the DMs are aware of this, because it was the subject of several group skype conversations, and it was agreed that the current system of ban waves as per mid-late 2015 and going onwards, was not well backed and unsustainable. DM silence here doesn't change those conversations we had and the agreements we had, or the fact that nothing was done because at the time, while the DM team had about 16 people, only 5 ever logged in on a regular basis, and so they were carrying the weight of a team 3x their size and choking under the red tape of a supposedly democratic system that came down to "things only got done when you decided to ignore everyone else who wasn't doing therr job."
As a DM, I had to overturn bans that were being handed out for things as simple as "I don't like the way you talked to me today." These were bans added to a permanent exile list, with no time, date, or reason, and sometimes with no notification to the PC or player IC or OOC. These bans came from multiple locations around the server, and contesting them was pointless because they were ignored or shrugged off not just IC but also OOC. The ban system has come down to a point where, self admitted by several players in this topic, it's nothing more than a way for people to get rid of PCs and players they don't like, so they don't need to "deal with you." There's no recourse to have a conversation, speak, or anything, it's about hiding behind giant walls where it's metagaming if anyone bothers to show their face.
Ironically, this is why the two-wall system Bendir currently has, and the current rule of "doesn't apply outside the inner walls" is great, and why the previous system before was great. The city is in an area surrounded by non-city territory, which means characters have a means to not only go around the city if they need to, but also have a way to interact with players, giving both characters oriented towards driving server conflict an avenue of roleplay, and characters oriented towards fighting and defending that conflcit, and avenue of roleplay to defend and protect. It also allows socialite characters an opportunity to meet with all sorts of characters in a relatively safe environment: While conflcit can break out, the presence of so many different characters means its likely your PC will find backup, or can hide within the city if need be.
Bans from cities should, with the exception of Kohlingen due to how that city even works and exists (crusader city of paladins that actively works to extend its influence religiously and militarily), be restricted to dealing with that city specifically. The DMs agreed with this assessment in previous conversations, but nothing was ever done about it - it sort of got shelved like a lot of conversations did because... well, I don't really have a good reason or defense, things just did. Bans from entire cities should not be able to happen because of something something hearsay, or because "I don't like you."
Quote:
Better to RP your way back in imho. And even if you don't know why you were banned you can still RP your way back in. Send flowers, offer services, camp outside the main gates... I've been known to send a tell asking if the character might be found elsewhere at some point so my character can catch them.
What I do know is badgering other players usually leads to being ignored. Hence I go and find something else to do for a bit then come back. Food for thought.
As a DM, I can tell you straight up people were simply ignored, and often on OOC grounds. Stalling occurred for weeks, months, before players gave up because they could "take the hint". You can't RP your way back in when your ban was on OOC grounds just to get rid of you so they don't need to "deal with you anymore." At that point it's OOC playstyles clashing, again, as admitted by several players in this topic. They're bored with you, so they're exercising their authority to get rid of you IC, using an IC ignorator to not have to see any of your content or any of your posts anymore. You no longer exist in their section of the server and can't, because it's metagaming if they try to, and with only 5 busy DMs, trying to track down a DM to do RP based on that area is a crapshoot, on top of a laundry list of other issues. It becomes known that it's not worth the time, so people quit, or worse, roll a new character that's not going to get banned.
That's not good, not healthy for the server. What the vastly popular, vastly widespread player personalities in this topic are missing is that you are all essentially a hivemind now. All you need to do is roll a character and every other player who likes you is inclined to act positively towards you. This is a trend that is super easy t spot,, and again, one that I know is noted by the DM team due to regular conversations on the subject. Note that I didn't say "RP becoming friends with your PC." I said "react positively" to you. Those are very different things - one is motivated by IC, one is motivated by OOC. I saw how all of you interacted as a DM, and now I see how all of you act as players, when that influence is no longer there. Ladies and gentlemen: It is night and day.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Reading all of this stuff, most of these problems could have been rectified by people communicating. Also players taking ownership of IC things like bans rather than needing the somewhat overwhelmed staff to inform people of punishments.
Commie sets out a great baseline for 'ban mechanics' if you have to issue them.
Personally I'd rather see people use alternative punishments, like flogging, forced labour or the stocks. . . Public things that make people RP consequences, rather than:-
'LOCKED FACTION DOOR SAYS NO TO YOUR FUN'.
It would also mean some understanding from other players that if someone is RPing a punishment like the stocks, not interacting with them if you wander past is really bad for the server. Toss some fruit at them. Be outraged at their treatment. Point and laugh. Let them emote a response. Don't do the default wander past in silence thing. . .
+1 respect.
This is brilliant, reminds me of a time where alternatives were used, and mistakes did happen but it made story not walls.
I played a spellsword years ago when the kelemvorites had their Ne'sek eternal order in swing. I travelled with a necromancer, whom my character didn't know was a necromancer, the kelemvorites did though, and when we hit their checkpoint and found us they assumed i was in collusion as I tried to defend the friend, thinking they were not a necro.
Their punishment was a short jail sentence, followed by 50 lashes, which were RPed out. And it was devastating to my character, he never showed his skin again, he wore those 50 reminders eternally and held a grudge against the kelemvorites that he would always stew about in hopes of retribution. It made interactions with the following kelemvorites tense, but the beauty is that it was still possible. The kelemvorites sent their message, and then we continued roleplaying.
Seriously though, resorting to ban isn't "justified" it's uninventive and lazy.
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Why would anyone keep trying after doing something a few times with no positive results? That's retarded. I've played this server long enough to know the players and their unwillingness to change. Quit setting up people to fail and trudge through miles of shit just so they can be on equal grounds. Play good to play good, not to beat and bully people. When you have a city based around three lawful good gods, you should conduct yourself in a manner that shows such. When people are exiled it isn't done as lightly as it is on amia. It takes evidence, arguments, counter-arguments, and finally a confrontation to pass judgement. Tyr and Torm demand this, while Ilmater teaches to help absolutely anyone who needs it. Kinda hard to help someone if they can't seek you out without a tell isn't it? Kohlingen has always suffered from inability to play nobles and knights as the highly educated and proper people they ought to be, preferring petty squablers with big attitudes. When that is just one or two it's great and creates points of internal contention within the group, but when all the king's court is a bunch of dumbfucks the only point of internal contention is what method of suicide should I use to avoid these people in the future. Quit telling everyone else to change to suit the environment you perpetuate. It'll shake things up and maybe end the same boring shit that's gone on for a decade.
Real fucking talk though.
Kamina wrote:
OpenTheRift wrote:
Seriously though, resorting to ban isn't "justified" it's uninventive and lazy.
Jail turned from a way for guards to interact with criminal PCs, and keep both parties entertained rather than segregated after the resolution of conflict RP, and instead became, as stated by players in this topic, "I don't want to deal with you, and now you expect me to sit in a jail cell and RP with you?"
Yes, actually. I do.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Jail turned from a way for guards to interact with criminal PCs, and keep both parties entertained rather than segregated after the resolution of conflict RP, and instead became, as stated by players in this topic, "I don't want to deal with you, and now you expect me to sit in a jail cell and RP with you?"
Yes, actually. I do.
A genuine shame, since a lot of Black Flag PCs or even smaller thug groups in South Cordor not only raided the prison to get people out, but being put in prison brought respect to you.
That said, I know what the Cordor Guard was like back then, and I honestly can't remember the last PC prisoner I heard being in there.
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"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
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You have a lot going for you. There are other people, new players or old players returning (like me) that don't share the same opportunities. With the wrong timezone it can be hard enough to engage in rp as it is, even more so if you get banned from half of the factions.
Which I forgot about until just now so thanks for the reminder.
