AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Is it just me? Or... is Amia really quiet lately?

Amia is just quiet because I left for a while. :mrgreen:

Gravemaskin wrote:

Amia is just quiet because I left for a while. :mrgreen:

It's always your fault, Gravey! Seriously; I miss ya sooooo much! <3

Liz wrote:

The reasons I'm gone have been stated in this thread, and then followed up by people flatly declaring "That reason does not exist, and the people who say they left for that reason are not being honest."

The place I'm playing now is not perfect, but it's not full of assholes.

What server, Liz?

It's going to be difficult to attract new players now. I must admit that since returning over the past week, I've been a little surprised at the numbers, but my timezone may be magnifying the issue.

The best hope is to get past players to return, and better yet, to provide them with incentives to return.

There's 6000 registered members, which means 6000 email addresses of past players in the forums database who already know about Amia. But it's an old game, and most have moved on, or perhaps forgotten about it, and need a little nudge to their memory bank.

I think if you sent out a bulk email to the 6000 email addresses and told them that the:
- Server was still alive and active.
- X, Y, Z Improvements /features / areas have been made.
- X, Y, Z events / plot stuff will be happening.

Even if only 1% of those people receive/read the email and decide to check out the server again, that could potentially be 60 returning players.

That could work. However, from my own past experience, emails like that can be very irritating at the same time. Often because people who have long since left the server and don't even seek to return suddenly receive an email that they don't care too much about. On the other hand, though, there may also be those who return. But it's more likely to just annoy most people, I think. Had a number of servers do that in the past, and the chance of success is pretty low.

Dev Disco wrote:

What you see is something called the Matthew Effect: when you're rich you'll become richer, when you're not you'll get poorer. We got on the wrong side of the balance somewhere, and that kinda reinforces itself. To get out of this downward spiral we'll need to do 4 things:

1. Get more players into the entry
2. Hook 'm when they're past the entry
3. Keep new and old players interested
4. Make old players return

I think a newsletter of sorts could work. Just as long as we're not inundating people with unwanted emails. One email every few months summarizing what changes have occurred would be fine.

If someone doesn't care about it any more, I'm pretty sure there's an option where you can take yourself off a mailing list. There is in most at least, I'm not familiar with phpBB and whatnot.

I would highly suggest that if youre reaching out to old players that you do so in tandem with an event focused on new characters. That way, you give a sweeter lure and a means to integrate the older player back into the flow of Rp without him wandering aimlessly and not finding the sources of rp.

This is actually an extremely effective way of getting record high players to come out of the woodworks on another server. There's an email that goes out in advance, character brainstorming threads for the event (where folks come up with group concepts), and a chance for Dm's to focus their attention on a hub-- so a number of smaller plots take place. On the server in question, I've seen activity go from 30 players online to 60+ through all hours of the day.

Obviously, Amia is a different server and not everything is applicable. But that's a formula that works.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

I would highly suggest that if youre reaching out to old players that you do so in tandem with an event focused on new characters. That way, you give a sweeter lure and a means to integrate the older player back into the flow of Rp without him wandering aimlessly and not finding the sources of rp.

This is actually an extremely effective way of getting record high players to come out of the woodworks on another server. There's an email that goes out in advance, character brainstorming threads for the event (where folks come up with group concepts), and a chance for Dm's to focus their attention on a hub-- so a number of smaller plots take place. On the server in question, I've seen activity go from 30 players online to 60+ through all hours of the day.

Obviously, Amia is a different server and not everything is applicable. But that's a formula that works.

I've seen this work on 2 other servers, yeah.

Tbh the biggest issues with the server, coming from an objective observation of comments, are probably split between player perspective and DM inconsistency.

The former is, as I've said a few times, an attitude adjustment. Look at the positive. Look at the DMs and fellow players out there making a difference. Everyone who is still here is here because they don't want the flame to flicker out and they're determined despite the lack of player number growth.

The latter is, in its basest form, the fact that previous DMs have taken to some acts which deserve question -- they've quit, they've left. This is the big number 2 I keep hearing though: it's a perspective that the team isn't willing to cooperate 100%, and that the playerbase can't rely on them 100%. Without sparking flame wars, calling anyone who used to work here, or otherwise out? The only solution that can be offered for DM related issues is three fold: we as players have to trust the team to not be malicious, the DMs have to cooperatively present a drive to improve the content of the server and control the playerbase vitriol, and they also need to consistently demonstrate agreement in any public and transparent forum (and preferably in general).

It's a give and take from both sides, and bar some adjustments (I personally would argue a greater degree of transparency would improve player trust, and that player voted DM appointment would reign supreme over DM voted DMs); it's all up to the individuals to give and take what keeps things lively

As far as a newsletter? I would be for it but let's be realistic: how many do we send before it ends up getting autoflagged as junk mail? Who is to say these people haven't changed emails or turned off notifications from the server? There's a lot of variables.

Personally? I take advertising the server head on -- I frequently draw players from other servers to our own playerbase, and delight to the chance to regardless of what side it's on. Lately I've been trying to get in direct touch with the old Kohlinghen folk -- because I think a team good to compete with seriously would be cool.

My point is -- perhaps what we need isn't automated spammed server reminders. What we need is a handful of people willing to spread their love for the server who truly love this server.

Get in touch with old players. Reccomend them. Tell them to come back to a new team with new ideas -- not giving up just because of initial uncertainty.

From there, keeping them is just up to the whole of us.

emzor wrote:

...

Or we could just turn Amia into new Mystara.

Gods, if only we could.

newsletter response rate is essentially 3% no matter what you're looking for a response on. you can find the 3% figure on pretty much any study about mass mailings.

That's a cold call Commie... for essentially an interest group, it's much higher.

Last edited by emzor on Mon, Oct 10 2016, 2:07 AM, edited 1 time in total.

3% of 6000 is potentially 180 players, which is massive in this context.

Hackums is right on the money, you wouldn't want to reach out to old players without offering something.

You would want to make sure you have a plan and a direction before trying to entice them back or else it's a wasted exercise. Ideally you want to entice them to come back with a direction that's fresh, focused and new. Then you need to deliver on the experience that you promised and keep then playing.

1. So sort out the bickering, attitudes, and issues.
2. Come up with a clear overall focus and direction
3. Advertise

Easier said than done, but I'm hearing that Arelith was dying quite fast, but they have drastically turned things around. I can't say I've played their much myself, but I've heard they have turned things around by fixing by fixing attitudes, direction, and refocusing.

Guardian wrote:

emzor wrote:

...

Or we could just turn Amia into new Mystara.

Gods, if only we could.

Hah, mate.

It's a shame that module was never publicly released, If we hosted it today I reckon we would still get enough players to keep it viable, or maybe host it seasonally or for short campaigns/events.

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

player voted DM appointment would reign supreme over DM voted DMs

Anything but this. Dear lord. I've been on three separate servers that did the player voting thing and it has ALWAYS ended poorly. It seems alright on the surface, that players can appoint who they feel would be active or otherwise. Which, in a perfect world, that could work quite well. However, from my own experience, it generally has the opposite effect. It becomes a popularity contest consisting heavily of favouritism over everything else. Sure, it has the chance of bringing in a good DM, but it's very unreliable. Now, mind you, this isn't to say that the playerbase as a whole is untrustworthy in that regard. Not at all. But it's just how this sort of thing tends to happen.

Hell, I remember the third server this was on, I actually was part of the team and was very much against the idea. But they decided to use it anyways. Just as I kept warning, however, it became a disaster very quickly. I think our we wound up openly removing half the voted DMs not even a week after they were voted (more than once) because they would either abuse power, do VERY lore unfriendly events, show favouritism towards friends,in some cases did stuff that granted their characters power, and in the odd case even backtalk and insult the admins (and even players) because their actions were being contested (though, that's not exactly something that's ever limited to DMs. Just not a quality DMs should have, ever).

Not saying it'll happen exactly as I mentioned, but it is very likely as similar things occurred on every other server that had that sort of system in place.

Terallis wrote:

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

player voted DM appointment would reign supreme over DM voted DMs

Anything but this. Dear lord.

He's right.

Dear lord no.

i'd get 35% of the votes, beating everyone else who got <20% of the vote and ascend the celestial staircase and become a dm.

and i'd begin the de-wiltuning.

edit; im being facetious here but it's the issue with voting for power in cases like this. the guy with the most votes doesn't always reflect the majority.

Yeah, player voted DMs would be a terrible idea.

Yeah, emzor got the picture. It'd be silly to just send a newsletter to people, unless you had things specifically planned to help integrate them back into regular Rp.

A lot of people log on, walk the route, don't know where the roleplay is or any relevance to what may be currently said, and don't know the players well enough to outright ask OOCly. An event that encouraged the creation of new characters wouldn't have to be just for old players, but for regulars too, in an attempt to spice up and freshen the atmosphere. Get folks interacting in hubs that aren't just convenient, but expansive and rich.

The problems you'd have to overcome are as follows:
- Amians are really good at leveling up extremely quickly. Even if a whole group of players all started something new together, in a matter of even 3 days there would likely be a large mechanical gap.
- Unless there were general restrictions to areas for the duration of the event, you'll have very powerful and very influential people interacting with others who are extremely mechanically inferior. And these powerful figures may also feel unfairly pushed aside if there were measures taken against them interfering, because they have after all earned their presence there.

The community I know of that has done this effectively has just sucked it up and made it happen, and it worked. But I can't say at all that it'd be easy, and in an era of argument maybe it's not the best answer.

Maybe just the sudden development (Either creation or reinforcement) of guilds in one of the central cities, and extending an invitation for players to make characters that would fit with the promise of cool, small plots. Or some kind of focused conflict that enables new characters to take part and affect changes to the world around 'em. You guys are clever people, I've no doubt you could come up with something neat, if you wanted to try to bring back older players as a strategy for revitalizing Amia.

Here's a perspective from one of your invisible players that left...

I once played here years ago with the old DM team. I spent years running around with power builds with a few of my friends and we mostly sold stuff and helped party with more RP focused builds. We would get into PVP with each other for fun also. We did events sometimes and got rewards. I had a few personal quests that DMs helped us RP out for fun. It was great.

Then a new team came, made fun of our builds, told me directly not to play with them (they may have been power builds, but they were legal and had an RP flare), told us not to sell things, refused to give us items after events, and kept spawning rust monsters to get us to leave. I had an unresolved quest that lingered for about 6 months until a DM flat out told me it was lost and would never be picked up again. It was the main reason I logged on...to try to get into that quest.

I looked on the forums, noticed lots of whip-cracking to make everyone follow pre-determined roles, all the work for write-ups, and it stopped being fun. I made a new name (this one) and talked to several people about the quirkiness of the players and how that made Amia special and a clear reason to divert from Arelith. I shrugged off my old identity and tried again with a new one. I wasn't in charge, so I didn't care if they wanted to be like Arelith. I thought I would just try again. But the whip cracked anyways. I posted some builds in the build forum as I had done for years. And a DM called me out on them stating I needed to include my RP justifications for things (it was a build forum, so that logically made no sense). I stopped playing because I didn't know what builds I could use (they made sense to me) or how to play here anymore without getting in trouble. I wasn't sure what I could or couldn't say or do anymore without getting in trouble. Every once in a while I logged in and ran around for fun because the server was cool, but nothing was going on. As I leveled, I got afraid, I would get deleveled for having a build that the DMs didn't like.

I saw this happen to Orb of Abrogation (an older NWN server). It died for the same exact reasons.

Your sever is not popular because it is doesn't appeal to a variety of people (which is essential for popularity to actually exist). I guess you want to be popular with a small group of elite RP people. I think you are. However, there are not enough of you around because elites tend to argue too much about who is right and get mad when no one agrees with their reasoning.

Its fantasy. Its make-believe. No one needs to be right. Why can't you appeal to a variety of people? It really just needs to be fun again and we will come back.

Let me make a build that I think is unique and run around leveling it with my friends without worrying about what others think of how weird it is. Send a bunch of goblins and spiders into a city and make us all band together to fight them. This is not hard. Just make it fun again.

meretricious wrote:

Then a new team came, made fun of our builds, told me directly not to play with them (they may have been power builds, but they were legal and had an RP flare), told us not to sell things, refused to give us items after events, and kept spawning rust monsters to get us to leave. I had an unresolved quest that lingered for about 6 months until a DM flat out told me it was lost and would never be picked up again. It was the main reason I logged on...to try to get into that quest.

I looked on the forums, noticed lots of whip-cracking to make everyone follow pre-determined roles, all the work for write-ups, and it stopped being fun. I made a new name (this one) and talked to several people about the quirkiness of the players and how that made Amia special and a clear reason to divert from Arelith. I shrugged off my old identity and tried again with a new one. I wasn't in charge, so I didn't care if they wanted to be like Arelith. I thought I would just try again. But the whip cracked anyways. I posted some builds in the build forum as I had done for years. And a DM called me out on them stating I needed to include my RP justifications for things (it was a build forum, so that logically made no sense). I stopped playing because I didn't know what builds I could use (they made sense to me) or how to play here anymore without getting in trouble. I wasn't sure what I could or couldn't say or do anymore without getting in trouble. Every once in a while I logged in and ran around for fun because the server was cool, but nothing was going on. As I leveled, I got afraid, I would get deleveled for having a build that the DMs didn't like.

Yikes you got de leveled and dms didn't give you items?

What was your build? I cannot think of any racial reason a DM would do that. Mind you I cannot speak for some of our past DMs but if they did I apologize. You can build any way you want.

[quote="meretricious]

Your sever is not popular because it is doesn't appeal to a variety of people (which is essential for popularity to actually exist). I guess you want to be popular with a small group of elite RP people. I think you are. However, there are not enough of you around because elites tend to argue too much about who is right and get mad when no one agrees with their reasoning.

Its fantasy. Its make-believe. No one needs to be right. Why can't you appeal to a variety of people? It really just needs to be fun again and we will come back.

Let me make a build that I think is unique and run around leveling it with my friends without worrying about what others think of how weird it is. Send a bunch of goblins and spiders into a city and make us all band together to fight them. This is not hard. Just make it fun again.[/quote]

+1000

My last few plots have been pretty much that. Large, island wide monster bash or invasions. There is always a bit more going on behind the scenes but that is the gist. I know just as many people enjoy these as hate them though.

It certainly isn't the solution to the larger problem at hand, since they are happening. I just did a small one the other day in fact with a hunting group.

@meretricious:

Are you referring to Letum's "RP your stats thread"? If yes, then it was nothing like that, only a simple reminder. In fact the DM in the thread specifically told you to feel free to put your build back because there was no judgement there.

Maverick00053 wrote:

My last few plots have been pretty much that. Large, island wide monster bash or invasions. There is always a bit more going on behind the scenes but that is the gist. I know just as many people enjoy these as hate them though.

It certainly isn't the solution to the larger problem at hand, since they are happening. I just a small one the other day in fact with a hunting group.

Ant alarm was fun times.

Maverick00053 wrote:

My last few plots have been pretty much that. Large, island wide monster bash or invasions. There is always a bit more going on behind the scenes but that is the gist. I know just as many people enjoy these as hate them though.

It certainly isn't the solution to the larger problem at hand, since they are happening. I just did a small one the other day in fact with a hunting group.

Not sure if I am hitting the right spot, but for me it was disgusting to watch some players to write in IC topics how they "predicted" such situations and bought food and weapons in advance and how they will now deliver them around.

Also all the skype groups and having some doodles yet never annoucing on forum what time some events are, it gets annoying after a while, when you try to fit in and it does not work.

Otherwise as meretricious says... smaller fun events for everyone, problem is that something done for lower lvls can be farmed by DM-seeking coin hunters.Fun fact... 2 of my 3? 4? coins I got by standing AFK in group or by passing by certain players (yes, players, not chars).

I've gotten a DC for talking about butts ig. Dm said they likely missed good rp and I should think of the DC as a reward for that.

Just wiggle your DC wands at ppl if you see a dm on and get your coin. You don't have to be rping out of your mind at that exact moment to get coined.

@Lutra

After seeing how you easily dismissed my personal testimony (meant to help your team), I realize now how wrong I am. Because that is how people work. You should not seek to understand another's viewpoint ever. Instead, just say the other person is wrong and everyone will listen to you.

Now I realize as the old saying goes...its not you, its me!

Have you ever stared at a stop sign and argued for hours about what to do next? Does the DM team ever do that...as a team-building activity? There is a stop sign in front of you right now.

Do you see it?

I guess not. The world is full of people who are "right" sitting alone in tiny apartments with no one to talk to anymore. Right is not always best and right is not always fun. You cannot litigate fun with a massive list of rules and restrictions.

Why don't you try this: Delete all your rules and restrictions, get really, really drunk, and let your freak flag out for a little in game for a week. Try it in real life also. Its awesome!

After experiencing some fun...tell your player based to come up with 10 rules that your team will enforce (only 10) and tell them they can only complain to your team when one of those rules are broken. Otherwise, you will be focused on having and creating fun on the server - ignoring everything else.

When you DM require adult beverages to be consumed in massive quantities.

I did not dismiss your testimony, but I reserve the right not to comment on dramatic posts, threads or sentiments, especially when it comes to a 14 years old game.

I just repeated the question that another DM asked a few posts above mine. Looked for that discussion in the Fishing forum to understand your past issue and I could not find any exact judgement on your builds, just your reaction to Letum's thread.
Either way, if you feel that you have been mistreated then you are welcome to send a PM to any of us with the details and specifics. I would be happy to help reviewing it.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

The problems you'd have to overcome are as follows:
- Amians are really good at leveling up extremely quickly. Even if a whole group of players all started something new together, in a matter of even 3 days there would likely be a large mechanical gap.
- Unless there were general restrictions to areas for the duration of the event, you'll have very powerful and very influential people interacting with others who are extremely mechanically inferior. And these powerful figures may also feel unfairly pushed aside if there were measures taken against them interfering, because they have after all earned their presence there.

I think a couple of alternate beginnings styled things would be a perfect way to start folk back who have been out of the loop. I even suggested my own that I'm considering running as a way for people to become acquainted with all the new spell changes, both mechanically and IC. I'm sure a similar event could be done for more roguish or melee-oriented PC's as a Wave and Serpent Guild thing.

About the leveling problem, I've long been an advocate of having a few, just a few events, specifically for certain level ranges. People say that it's somewhat artificial to the setting, well yes, it is, but otherwise it's really, really hard to get new people involved in the mix of things. A few doesn't hurt. My and your 10-year old lv 30's are not going to be any worse for ware for missing a series or events or two, in their interests or not. But it can make all the difference for someone trying to join the swing of things. And again, it also helps the DM tailor challenges to who they know is showing up. I don't want my PC's uber skill roll to solve a newbie's plot and deprive them of a story. Likewise, I don't want my PC's roll watered down or discounted for the sake of not spoiling that plot. Sometimes its good to separate by ability, that way everyone feels like they're doing something. It's not a matter of feeling pushed aside. The simple fact is no one has a monopoly on any sort of RP on our server, nor should that ever be the case.

Ideally, the leveling up thing is solved in my suggested event by having it open every night from a specific time. You'll be getting exp an RP there and we'd ask people not to hunt outside of the event. "But I just wanna play my character now!" Cool. You can do that. Just not that and also being part of this event. It only lasts a week or so, so it's not like you're doomed to never get into the outside world on your own. Heck, and if someone wants to RP sneaking "off campus" with a DM, more power too them, that's cool. But it's not cool for anyone if you show up on the first day barely knowing cantrips, and then a day or so later have mastered Hellball... which is very possible if you're super familiar with our dungeons and have nothing to do for a whole day.

Okay... seems this thread worked, well enough anyway. I'm beginning to see higher numbers on the server counts, and lots of people around more often. Keep it up!

Though, a newsletter isn't a horrible idea... just have to have an unsubscribe in it. Use mailchimp, it's free, can retain your list and do the automated subscribes and unsubs for you.

I mean the server ebbs and flows like any other.

I don't think anything has changed yet as a result of this post, just people venting.

The biggest things mentioned here are "people are assholes here, so we don't play here often anymore."

I think you lot should work on identifying that and fixing it first, whatever "fixing it" means.

MisterLich wrote:

I mean the server ebbs and flows like any other.

I don't think anything has changed yet as a result of this post, just people venting.

The biggest things mentioned here are "people are assholes here, so we don't play here often anymore."

I think you lot should work on identifying that and fixing it first, whatever "fixing it" means.

ML, I was redirecting. Trying to show a positive. Do I really think this thread changed anything? Nah, I think it made more people angry to be honest. I was trying to lighten things up a little.

I think it's accomplished a few positive things, That Guy.

1) Some honesty. This can go a long ways, even if the results can't be seen yet.

2) Some awareness. I've seen in this thread a few people stating they weren't even aware of things, and even if it doesn't show that they are now aware, their actions will slowly begin to change because of things like this. It's inevitable.

3) Some facts. There are clearly some facts in this thread. Wherever you stand, two things can be acknowledged. There is some widespread player dissatisfaction. Some players and DMs (mainly those trying to maintain control, or in positions of leadership) have made it clear they don't take it seriously.

4) Some answers. Regardless of how you feel, That Guy, you got some answers to your questions. From broad to specific. I think my own lies somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. I was more specific than I have been in the past, but less specific than people such as Nick.

Personally, I think you will see a minor jump up in activity and then it will return to the low numbers you've been seeing. I think people will discover many of the things stated here are definitively true: Lack of access to RP, lack of a true story and people being bitchy (even here you can see this last one hasn't stopped, which is probably another fact I should've listed but I try to ignore it, see look I can try to lighten the mood too, is it working I'm not sure, doubtful.....).

I hope I'm wrong, for your guys' and my nostalgia's sake. I can state a newsletter would do little for me. I've made it pretty clear how inactive I'm going to remain until some changes are made or some people acknowledge their own responsibilities. Never know about others, though!

CratzBlade113 wrote:

Having been on that side if the argument before, I'm so tired of hearing about DM favoritism and whatnot.

If people don't like that some groups get more DM attention create RP that needs attention. Make big plans, institute big changes. Stop standing around and waiting for shit to happen.

I used to think like this too! These days I'm honestly not sure what to think. I was never really one for DM events and have been in the situation where I have created my own RP for most years. Unfortunately, as PCs, there is only so much we can do and eventually we may need DMs to help move things forward. That is where things got difficult for me.

I will give a few examples of the most frustrating ones for me:

In one plot, which had been building up for months, Lyraesel decided that she wanted to go to the Positive energy plane. After months of research and planning, I submitted a plot-request for her hidden on the DM-forum. It included other PCs so it was pretty important it was not posted publically. Time passes by, and I nudge a few DMs which each give me the unfortunate answer that there is no interest. I finally get a DM for it but they stop responding to my messages after a time. Oh well.. can't force it! I got back to square one again and time passes on like usual without anything happening.
Then one sudden warm day, another PC approaches Lyraesel and says they've been to the Positive energy plane. Turns out that another PC had gotten the idea to go there, prodded a DM and they had gone there. I was shocked by this revelation as I had sat there without a response for months to do the exact same thing(and she still couldn't go). The worst part about this is that there was no real reason for my charcater to ICly not go. It was very upsetting that it turned out this way.

The most frustrating one by far was during Lyraesel's most anti-chromatic days when she had called for dragonslaying. We generated a lot of RP with this and Lyraesel had gathered a warband. When the time eventually came, no DM showed up. From what I could gather there was confusion with some things but that was ok. As a result, the intiative was crushed entirely (IC). The worst part for me wasn't that we couldn't go, but we had no DM support whatsoever, not even an IC post on the forum that would at least give some IC closure to what happened. Afterwards, I was basically told 'You wouldn't have found the dragon anyway.' OOC. After the incident I signed out and didn't log in for two weeks. It was just horrible.

Lastly, I want to share a 'success story' where things actually worked out:
When Lyraesel was ill, we generated a lot of self-RP in the community. We had everything from outsiders coming in (indirectly causing drama!) to spontaneous events where people tried to help Lyraesel. DMs came by more than once and influenced the setting and it was fun. It ended with a DM-event that others had planned for Lyraesel. Unfortunately, this has only happened once to me in my years on Amia, but overall it was a good experience.

In the first case I described, the DM who ran the Positive energy plane event was a close OOC friend of the party who went. Did that matter, and was it a deciding factor? I don't know. But from my observings, OOC helps a lot on Amia if you ever want to get things done.

A common response I've seen to this is something like 'Well, the DMs are volunteers, they are not paid employees and don't owe anyone anything'. This is true! But when things go bad, complaints will rise and most of the time there is at least some substance to them. Please don't dismiss them so easily.

I want to be clear and say that I don't blame a single particular DM for any of these things I mentioned! I also don't know the current team's stance on these things, things may have improved drastically since then.

Too long, didn't read: I tried generating my own RP on Amia. In the majority of times, I ended up falling flat on my face when I needed DM assistance.

I'm sorry for the rant.

A lot of things are misconstrued, misrepresented, and misunderstood - not to mention, lack of proper communication that is often the downfall of DM to PC interaction, or just in general. The one thing I've heard many times from other DMs, which I think makes sense, is that it will always look a certain way to the people who can't see the "man behind the curtain" and everything that goes on behind the scenes. Without all the pieces, and without being able to let you see all the pieces, its really no one's fault in particular that things can get confusing.

@Alaria:

So, as with this example, it is often times not an intentional thing to ignore or jump over certain people. Its just honest mistakes. If you follow up and try to talk to the DM, if they are willing, its often you will find you can clear this sort of stuff up. If you care to, that is!

i've found by making dm requests for plot and stuff public it's easier to prod them into doing stuff.

make a topic. bump it daily. be as general or as specific as you want. bump it daily on the public requests forum until someone picks it up. has out the deets via pm or ig if it needs to be secret.

this has the added benefit of people knowing somethings going on so they can ic get informed.

I think I'm more like Alaria in this respect. I've asked DM's to help with things before. Sometimes it's worked out great, other times, perhaps they forgot? Moved on to something else? I don't know. In the real world, I hate people bugging me constantly, so I try to not be "That Guy" in the game myself. Meaning, I don't like to bug the DM's. I know they have so much shit to deal with, from whiny people who lost XP during a crash, to DC requests, to OOC conflicts between players, and, you know, keeping the server alive with stories and plots. I hate to keep pestering them about -my- stuff. I think that's where Alaria is coming from too, she waited patiently, and it was dropped, where someone else might have been the proverbial squeaky wheel and got greased.

Are we really supposed to be the squeaky wheel? I'm asking in earnest to our DM team... I don't wish to offend anyone, nor piss someone off by being persistent, but, if you say that's the way to get something accomplished, well... then I will from here forward as needed.

Bug us. Yes.

We are human and sometimes need the bump.

New player here and if I may, I think a mass emailing is perfectly acceptable. If someone gets annoyed, they can easily unsubscribe or block the transmission email address. I don't believe there is a limit on how many emails a person can receive, nor is it a finite resource, so mail away. It costs them nothing and can boost attendance.

Just my two cents.

BK

I still hop on here and there but I wonder if it's more nostalga than honest expectation of any meaningful interactions.

I can't even really remember many players or characters from the server full days but that's as much to do with my aging neurons ad much as the fact they don't play much if at all either.

As to why numbers have fallen of the continental shelf, for my part I regret the server's decent into a more OOC concerned direction but also I feel that large over powered plot lines that effected everyone but involved only a chosen few were and are a big mistake.

In pnp terms it would be similar to the DM focusing the spotlight on one player for the majority of the lead up as well as making that player the centre of the climatic final scene. And when the rest of the players raise their concerns they are told dismissively that it's their own fault.

///I'm on the mobile at the moment and will expand on this when I get home, so rest assured there us more context to come

I was actually hoping this was going in a more positive direction. Though it seems people want to rehash old problems again and again. We haven't had a plot that big in some time, and I don't see one now. Right now, I see player run initiatives that are starting to take off, I see new players finding niches that others have left behind. In short, I see progress, sure, I may be looking through rose colored glasses, but it's better than the alternative.

I'm not trying to start anything with you Strikeclone, but... I don't see any need to expand on your complaint. It's been said before, and you even admitted to not playing anymore. So, why dredge up old injuries again?

I'm thinking this threat has run it's course....

BREAKING NEWS

PEOPLE STILL BEING BUTTHURT ABOUT A DECADE OLD PLOT
THE SERVER IS SHOCKED

MORE IN 5

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

BREAKING NEWS

PEOPLE STILL BEING BUTTHURT ABOUT A DECADE OLD PLOT
THE SERVER IS SHOCKED

MORE IN 5

These kinds of comments are absolutely not helpful.

SoA, please. At least attempt to be constructive. Don't waste peoples time with that sort of bullshit. It's asinine and we are all better than that.

Back on the topic of a newsletter. People who have been away for a while then came back, what information would have made it easier to get back into the flow of things? My longest hiatus was a year I believe, but it was so long ago I can't really remember what I was slow to pick up on. I guess settlement developments, like racial gates and such were one thing. Strolling up to an old stomping ground and then being told to go away was a change, but not the end of the world.

A Current State of Affairs for each settlement/region would be perfect.

And honestly, we should have one of those for the forum in a tidy spot, anyway. Both for organization between DMs and so players know what's going on if they're away for a little bit (or a long bit).

Alaria- wrote:

In the first case I described, the DM who ran the Positive energy plane event was a close OOC friend of the party who went. Did that matter, and was it a deciding factor? I don't know. But from my observings, OOC helps a lot on Amia if you ever want to get things done.

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:

A lot of things are misconstrued, misrepresented, and misunderstood - not to mention, lack of proper communication that is often the downfall of DM to PC interaction, or just in general. The one thing I've heard many times from other DMs, which I think makes sense, is that it will always look a certain way to the people who can't see the "man behind the curtain" and everything that goes on behind the scenes. Without all the pieces, and without being able to let you see all the pieces, its really no one's fault in particular that things can get confusing.

@Alaria:

So, as with this example, it is often times not an intentional thing to ignore or jump over certain people. Its just honest mistakes. If you follow up and try to talk to the DM, if they are willing, its often you will find you can clear this sort of stuff up. If you care to, that is!

It is possible yes, however, I also share Alaria's concern. It was not before I started actively RP where there was certain players that I started getting stuff done. In order to get things done, you need DM's characters so that DM's see what your character is about. Which is natural, as without any knowledge, how you know anything was done in the first place. It was also the reason why I personally sought to be inclusive instead of exclusive in RP (Where I could), which also backfired IC:ly by things getting screwed up. Lesson learned.

At times having to bug DM's over and over again starts getting tiring, fighting to get anything. Then you see just someone sweep in and do the same in matter of weeks when you spent months, it is disheartening.

It would be fun to be more included in matters, while I also understand the IC hesitation do it, it still does not make it any easier in OOC level to feel welcome IC and IG when you can't get into anything. IC consequences yes, but when that means no RP, what really is the point of logging in? My point is that instead of saying no to RP, try to find a mean to be inclusive in RP even when the character might not be wanted IC. At least there is point to log in, to RP and see what happens.

That Guy wrote:

I was actually hoping this was going in a more positive direction.

That Guy wrote:

Though it seems people want to rehash old problems again and again.

There is nothing inherently wrong with veteran players expressing their experiences and opinions pursuant to the thread topic, arguably those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it as the saying goes.

That Guy wrote:

We haven't had a plot that big in some time

Here you are missing the point of what I am trying to say, which is that in the time I was most active it was the fact that there were large over arching plots that changed the server landscape (i.e. nuking Cordor and other places) thus effecting everyone who played here, but the plots themselves only involved a handful of players at its core. This rendered in effect everyone else as nameless extras on sets made for those handful to bulk out the scenes, all for the reward of a DC at the end of it, with many of these "extras" none the wiser as to what the hell was going on.

That Guy wrote:

and I don't see one now.

Irrelevant to my point damage done, but can/will/have lessons be learned from this or do we pretend that everything is and was hunky dory even as the server population goes from "server full please try again later" to 1/65?

That Guy wrote:

Right now, I see player run initiatives that are starting to take off, I see new players finding niches that others have left behind. In short, I see progress, sure, I may be looking through rose colored glasses, but it's better than the alternative.

Again irrelevant to my main points however I said I was going to expand upon my earlier post once I got home and could use a proper keyboard, I always found that the best use of a DM on a server like Amia was to randomly potter around the server and see where they can insert themselves into the goings on.
For example once upon a long time ago whilst going through the old Gnoll lair with a group a DM unbeknownst to our party was spectating our antics and decided to get involved, long story short they took the part of the Gnolls and hit us with custom ambushes and so on culminating in a custom boss fight, all of which was laced with the groups RPing within itself and trying to tend to the wounded/fallen and fight off the Gnolls.

Best fun I have had on Amia by far, and one sadly never repeated with any party I have been in since.

That Guy wrote:

I'm not trying to start anything with you Strikeclone,

Could have fooled me, even with the fact I stated I could not complete my original post in the depth I wanted at the time of posting and with full notice I would expand later you immediately gave me no benefit of any doubt and rendered my post down as mere "complaint" and "dredging up of old injuries" which if you had bothered to wait for me to finish is clearly not what I was doing.
Rather I was relaying my experience of when there was a sharp decline in server culture which whether you like it or not echos other experiences posted in this topic thread.

Could be there is something to what people have said maybe?

So maybe you should not ask "Is something going on I don't know about? Or.. just an ebb and flow sort of thing?" if you are not prepared for answers that might not suit your assumptions, expectations, echo chamber or whatever.

That Guy wrote:

I'm thinking this threat has run it's course....

This ties in with what I said in the lines above, and I have to say with all due respect I don't think its appropriate for you to ask vague questions about the blatant server decline if you then want to somehow close down the debate when it strays near facts and experiences you find uncomfortable for some reason.

I have been slowly edging my way back onto Amia after a long hiatus and trying slowing to insert my characters into RP with people and players who are complete strangers ICly and OOCly to me and for the most part they have been welcoming OOCly even if their characters were less so ICly (which ofc is fine)

But frankly it is sort of nihilism for want of a better word in your reply to me that contributed to my taking that hiatus in the first place.

I would suggest to the wider readers of this thread that if you want to improve the server culture to the point where people want to return and newcomers want to stay then the best place to start is with yourselves, and examining if you are being fair to others and trying to approach them with the full benefit of the doubt that they maybe trying to help rather than merely "complain" and "dredge".

I regret even having to reply in this fashion but it seem to be required so that my full and complete context and meaning of my earlier post could be made hopefully clearer, and I hope that you can take my words into consideration as they were intended rather than feel I am being confrontational.

Far from it, open and honest debate and disagreement leading to greater understanding of each other are to my mind far more agreeable that simply nodding and smiling to your forum face whilst plotting your forum death via pm

I hope to see you in game and be a small part of helping Amia active numbers rise once more.

P.S. as for StraightOutaAvernus's snide post, this just shows another reason why players will leave or keep to themselves and I have nothing polite to say to such people and what I would say would get me in trouble no matter how close to the mark it would be be.

P.P.S. if anyone would like to discuss my posts with me then I would welcome them to PM me to avoid cluttering this thread if it seems more appropriate to do so.

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

BREAKING NEWS

PEOPLE STILL BEING BUTTHURT ABOUT A DECADE OLD PLOT
THE SERVER IS SHOCKED

MORE IN 5

This was not constructive nor was it needed. I am giving you a warning.

Is it just me? Or... is Amia really quiet lately?

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