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At some point the one's complaining on this thread should ask themselves the following questions.

1. How much fun have the winners of the IC conflict had given this barrage of ooc complaining?

2. Were you even there or involved?

3. Wouldn't you honestly agree that by showing up for a fight that you agree to the outcome by default?

4. How old am I again?

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Plays Yoweth'Ssissth Kelia

I think what some are pointing out is that they didn't know it was a fight. As someone not involved directly in this and just reading the posts, some are upset it happened but most seem upset about the how. They can live with the outcome BUT I think on the day felt blindsided when it all kicked off. Fun is fun but you can only have fun if there is a sense of fair play.
Yes it was a surprise attack but by rights if the city was attacked before then all of the people who were there when the second attack kicked off WOULD have been buffed and ready because there had been a previous attack. No nation would just stop being prepared when a previous attack was repelled.

Its that sense of fair play, that chance to actually alter in some way the outcome of a fight which, from the go people feel was stacked against them. You don't mind fighting a loosing battle at times so long as you feel you were at least given the chance do fight fairly and to your best.

Just being there didn't mean you were there to fight, it just meant you were there.

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

I created a post about this very issue a few months ago, begging for some kind of augmentations to the rules. It was my opinion that positions of leadership and the like be evacuated if a player doesn't log on in a reasonable amount of time. I was met with "Well. Technically they still exist, just because I'm not there, doesn't mean mu character is not." Notional presence is not real presence. Seriously though. Expect land grabs. Expect raids. If you have no one to defend your place..well...that sucks. The attackers fought hard, and they fought well. Ach has been creeping around the UD for months, a shame no one discovered her plan IC. The fact you even get an OOC notification at all is damn near meta gaming. You want it back. Go and take it. There are plenty of characters that want them dead IC. Oh. And...
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86765
I'm sorry for being combative. But smashing DM's and players because IC you faction is weak, non present and noncommunicative is an IC problem. You are correct when you said you shouldn't have to rely on Skype. You should find these things out in game, in character.
I live in Kuwait and I break my ass to RP with people and I don't even run anything. The most successful factions on the server are the ones with ACTIVE leaders and active players. You made mention of a player quitting because his character was broken and wanted a rebuild. I don't know the specifics, but thats one player. Please, please stop beating up players and DMs. The players were RPing and the DM's were facilitating it. That's how this is supposed to be. They shouldn't have to clear things with you first.

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Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased

Honestly. They shouldn't have rushed to the DM's prompts. They probably thought they were there for a sweet ass event, instead they got rolled up. Happens when you magically navigate somewhere because of intuition delivered to you via golden text.

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Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased

Not sure how the event unfolded but I don't think they rushed to the DM shout, they were in the area when DM shout went out... then the dragons were ported in, I think if I read all this right. If a DM shouts though I don't think its unreasonable to think its a DM event and not a player driven PvP event just aided by DM presence. We have rules that govern PvP encounters which I think means all involved should be told they are in a PvP event... think that's what was missing at the time.

As I said, that sense of fair play.

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

If they didn't want to fight, they could have left. Right?

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Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=70474&p=1410789#p1410789

Were they truly not aware even in the slightest?

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Plays Yoweth'Ssissth Kelia

You'd have to ask them but personally I think its just bad form to log out in the middle of something. Whether they shouted DMs or not during, again only those there know. From what was said in this thread they waited until after the thing ended to voice on the forums because many of them logged I gather when it ended.

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

This doesn't really tell you its a PvP event on the day though, I think that is the main gripe. PvP, regardless, is normally prefaced by a somewhat polite point out that its coming your way. Now if the DMs had shouted out it was a PvP event I guess that moots the point a little.

To comment on a previous point, I don't think DMs with characters in a faction should be excluded from from DMing for that faction. What I do feel though is that if an event is player driven, player controlled and leads to PvP... it shouldn't be 'announced' as if it were a DM making a presence in game.

Its the difference between a DM running the event and a DM overseeing an IC, player conflict.

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

I think Goose just came down from the prompt in the UD skype chat that something was going down and missed the stuff posted drow forum side. In which case its really on us (and him for not reading drow news) for his lack of warning for PVP.

Otherwise it was pretty clear from our perspective a fight was going down. My impression was that all other participants knew we were in for PVP. (Or so I hope, granted the only formal warning DMs gave was the vague promise of shenanigans but we had IC warning)

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Always a reason and always a better perspective which provides clarity! Its hopefully something people learn from, make note of the small things and move on to the next time... least that's forever the hope!!

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

@thunderbrush - Your post seemed rather inflammatory than understanding. Keep in mind, you witnessed nearly 1.5-2 years of RP build up from nearly every day RP on the forums. Yes, we took a break. Should people blame us for that? No, not really. Nothing was stopping anyone from taking over the leadership down there IC anyways, my PC handed away leadership once already, and was looking to do it again, because of an IC journey she was on. Could you have gotten involved and made your own RP while we were on break? Yes. Do you get to be Ust'Il'haress overnight? No; and even if you did, it would not be exciting afterwards.

You're more correct when you say it comes down to having active players. But to have active players, you have to have an active setting, and you need something to do while you're down there, I.E. an active DM; and not have just experienced an extinction event, only to experience yet a more final one, as the next event. Keep in mind that the typical activities that drow do, such as "raid" were often culled by the leadership for fear of counterattack, so on some days, finding RP with the numbers available was hard, because on most nights it was the 'same crew'. Easy to understand why we took a break - anyway...

Some people were told that this was a sandbox, and so they invested hundreds of hours of their time into it, and treated it in a way that they didn't want it to go away, so they didn't do stupid things. Many playing like it was their full time job, for months at a time. There were good times/bad times, but it was always a niche community that seemed to accept anyone who would be willing to contribute, provided their RP was not completely incompatible with it being a Llothite city. Everything down to the locks I saw people one-line-emote to destroy, I probably can cite from memory the weeks of RP some member of the UD did before it was put in the module. In the end, what happened just felt like "the whole server" just came in and pwned us, and took all of our work. That's fine, I mean, hopefully the beautiful story continues, but surely you can't ever expect anyone there to care about a sandbox ever again.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

I can only say from my own perspective. I did not know there was to be pvp for certain although I suspected maybe given what I had read in those UD forums. I did not know until right before when the DM told us to dislike anyone not in party. That being said I'm not sure I understand the relevance of whether or not the event included pvp. Can someone explain that one to me? It seems the crux of the butt hurt here. You all do realize that in any DM event you are likely having to fight something right?

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Plays Yoweth'Ssissth Kelia

I am mostly and outside observer to this, and I've skimmed the thread but I could have missed something. What I will say is this, and I think Dms and players of either side would be able to agree this much.

The higher the stakes of a situation, the more clearly the notice should be made and the more time that should be given to see that notice. "Shenanigans are happening in a day or two" doesn't really make any stakes clear. If you posted something like that in one of my PC's hometowns, there is a good chance I'd pass it over, thinking it's something inconsequential, a mini plot, some literal "shenanigans." Of course you can't and don't want to give away that there's a surprise attack happening, but you could still say very clearly and plainly "if your character would certainly be involved in important happenings in the settlement, you need to make an effort to be here." My PC's not going to come out of his house because NPC Joe had a slipper stolen the by a dog. Thus, I might not log on. He WILL definitely come out of his house if his home and livelihood are under siege. Especially if there's the possibility the whole settlement could be lost. In a single event no less? I would make my best damn effort to log on.

I wasn't there. I was not involved. I can't point any specific finger at anyone, nor would I want to. But being candid, I really feel by the sound of it the DM team should have known better than this. You have to remember the part of the community you're dealing with. The UD drow community has lost now, what, 3 cities? And what's the one complaint that's always there afterwards? They feel they didn't actually stand a chance. Those claims right or wrong, true or not, I think this would have been a good time for the team to go that extra mile in making sure you were being as fair as possible. This would have been the time to be beyond reproach, you, already knowing the stakes and the possible fallout. Had you done so, I think the response would have been "oh, well at least they really looked out for us this time." Instead, from my perspective, this seems to continue a gulf of doubt between the UD community and the DMs that seems to grow wider by the years.

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I'm mostly sitting back and letting this thread go because I don't think it's going to be productive but before I dissapear into my hole again, I'd candidly point out that this event is a rather ready demonstration of the fact that you can approach virtually any DM about virtually anything you need a DM for; and that player to player conflict can and will actually mean something.

What I am saying is; no, you don't need an active environment. You simply need to find things to do with other players that aren't literal musical chairs in Bendir.

Almost every other current still existing server enjoys less DM activity than this one, and as vitriolic as their playerbase can be, you would never really get wide scale complaints about the fact that they were usually glorified ban-handling monderators simply because everyone understood that 80-90% of their purpose was to plan events that included, opposed, and sometimes most verily were guaranteed to involve PvP with the rest of the community.

Granted, I hate Arelith; so take that how you will.



You don't need to raid en-masse, you're drow. Go gank an elf for being an elf.

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Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers

I'm going to hesitantly admit that Stormwind is right. When Tarkuul had Glim and Glim never logged on to do anything but dev work we just found other DMs to interact with. That sort of thing is how you make yourself part of the setting and not just part of our own self contained organism. Factions that only interact with each other and that one DM they think they're confined to always die, that's honestly why all of my recent attempts at consolidating evil have failed; I was mostly waiting for Tormak because for some reason I thought Tormak was the only DM I could go to for events for evil stuff instead of everyone else who honestly seem to be doing a pretty good job of being interesting and running stuff lately.

But having an absentee DM is a huge problem for any community and takes initiative on the part of the player base to revitalize it. I will concede to RaveN that it can be near fatal because it totally halts internal progression of any kind.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

I will completely agree that what I said was inflammatory. I do rather apologize for how it came off. It's just that I see a lot of largely inactive players trying to undermine the work put in by active players and DM's and I think of that is allowed to happen the server will fall into stagnation. I understand and empathize for all the hours put into improving the environment in the UD, and I have seen the same thing happen over and over. I can use Belenoth as an example of a place that substantial RP went into and is largely abandoned, aside from two players. You simply can't expect to put things down for a year and expect them to be the same when you get back. If anything I should hope that this would give the Drow reason to rally and reclaim what is theirs. I guess what I see is a problem that should be solved in game. Not on threads, or Skype or any of that. I hope this puts my views in better perspective. I apologize for my previous bluntness.

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Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased

+1

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

So go get it back. The sandbox isn't done, it's just another story in the sandbox. If you care about it IC and OOC as muh as you do, then go get it back. Why is this constantly looked at as "the end" rather than the middle of Empire Strikes Back or The Two Towers?

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

While it's true that the story need not be over, I think one might be able to empathize with a tiredness of trying to protect/regain/rebuild a Drow settlement. I haven't had a PC actively involved in one past Ultrinaan, and even so it seems a bit daunting to me at this point, without having really experienced Edonil and Nec. But again, you're correct, this has the potential to be but yet another chapter in the book. It is now, however, a question of who wants to keep writing the story.

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If you weren't there and you didn't experience any part of it and have no knowledge and no perspective, then your two cents aren't really helpful here except to reinfrrce a stereotype that did not take place here.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

To this particular event, no. I prefaced my post with that, you'll notice. But this event in context to why people are seeing this as "the end" as you put it, having played with a fair amount of UD players, what from playing a PC that used to fight/scheme/plot against them on the regular, my two cents stands just fine. This is what I hear in PM's and tells. If it needs to come out of someone else's mouth, fine. If it seems like I'm putting words in someone's mouth, they can correct me. I'm not saying that there is a stereotype, nor do I believe there is one, I'm saying that if you look at it from the perspective I gave you, you can realize what actions on the DMs' side may(mistakenly) reinforce it.

Additionally, I don't have to be there to say that had I been given the same formal notice, I probably would have passed up the event unknowingly. This is not to accuse you or any of the team of wrongdoing. I'm saying that I and others would have probably had the same reaction, so more meat to the notice probably would help misunderstandings like this be avoided for everyone in the future. That's helpful to everyone and I'm sorry if that comes off like I'm trying to incite or deride anyone; it's just a good idea brought about by a murky situation.

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On the topic of absentee DMs, its not just Nec'perya but the Underdark in general does not get much DM activity. From my understanding, not many DMs are keen to oversee or much less start stuff in the Underdark because of the amount of lore that comes with it. And of the few DMs who are comfortable playing in the UD, they usually have PCs there already (because of course you do, the Underdark is awesome) which brings us back to the issue of DMs' crossing wires.


Four cities. Udos Dro'xun, Ultrinnan, Edonil and Nec'perya.

And when people say drow community, the first question that comes to my mind is 'what drow community?' The OP using this term has bothered me because most of the players have already moved on and if there was a drow community, then Nec'perya would not have fallen. In fact it would be doing a lot more.

If people have a genuine interest in revitalising Drow, or even just Underdark RP in general, then I encourage you to pay attention to Holy Avenger's topic instead of this one.

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Not to mention the fact that OP logs on once a year to pay a heretic who isn't even a part of the drow community last I recall. Most of the most seriously triggered people in this thread aren't a part of that considering that for the past year that community was mostly just naltyr when he had time.

But seriously this thread is a giant triggerfest and I can only day that freely because I'm not playing here.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

So Drow town's received new management eh?

Such opportunities... I may actually log in to check it out!

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

To add a degree of context, one must be very careful of placing the Drow community in the light of a victim. I've seen the same reaction happen three times in the last 10 years: history keeps repeating itself and very few have learnt the lesson from the predecessor's mistakes.


I have said before that a menzoberanzen themed, Lolthite Drow community is a self-destructive entity. If the entire server at full capacity, players and DMs, were dedicated to playing and managing such a setting which included perma-death of characters, then it may be successfully implemented. This is not the case on Amia though and there are many reasons why.


For starters, NWN is a venerable game. 15 years to be precise. The community has done well to keep it driving forward, but the community is not rapidly growing or expanding. Bioware stopped releasing patches for the game eight years ago, the gamespy servers shut down at least five years ago, nwnvault is now shut down and modern-day operating systems are not very accomodating to the aging nwn.exe files without modifying them. Beyond GoG and players purchasing NWN out of nostalgia, the nwn community is not really growing anymore: amia might have a trickle of new players here and there, but that's not to say that they are “new” to NWN itself. Naturally this has an effect on the smaller, niche communities inside Amia itself.


The Underdark is a niche setting: the minority like myself love the dark, villainous and ruthless appeal to it. Most people don't and that's ok. The underdark community as a result (to which the Drow are the dominant contributor, but not the only contributor) will always will be small for its surface area and you notice that it is generally the same players who are attracted to it. In the Drow's context, you generally have two kinds of players attracted to the setting: those players who play a Drow of prominence such as a priestess, matron or head mage in the making, and those who are that player's mates who make a character to support their mate in achieving that goal. Effectively the players are divided into shepherds and sheep. Generally when the shepherd player leaves, the sheep they brought with them disappear too. House Qos'Yutsu is a good example of this. The few Drow who stand the test of time such as Naltyrr and Kerath are the shepherds who actively engage with the server around them, which leads to my next point:


Sub-factions. For such a small playerbase (averaging at 20 people at their most active back when the servers were full daily), the Drow community loves to overstretch themselves. Not only do they have their Noble House factions which can be anywhere between two and six houses at once, they also have the temple for the female clerics, the sorcere for the spellcasters, the magthere for the melee classes, the security institute for the rogueish classes and then the stepchild sub-factions such as the Selvetargtlin (no offence meant Xanthair). So not only do they have a small, niche playerbase, they have now intentionally stretched themselves into more sub-factions then there are players in the underdark.


The next hurdle major hurdle which compounds the previous two is the player-driven isolation. Although adherent to R.A Salvatore's vision of an extremist Lolthite meritocracy, the Drow playerbase have always opted to isolate themselves from the larger server around them, including the other Underdark communities if they don't adhere to “the lolthite way.” At first it is a player-driven incentive, then when a few raids occur and PvP starts to get involved, it eventually comes from DM intervention: racial gates, inaccessible leyline portals and god-like NPCs have all been utilised in the past by the DM/Development team to give the Drow community their isolation that they requested. This metaphorically created a locked castle for the Drow community to dwell in, surrounded by the rest of the server which they intentionally lock themselves away from. This then develops a false sense of entitlement over what they own which, considering their playerbase's size, is extremely generous compared to most surface groups.


Although [The drow community] get the space to maintain an extremist, menzoberanzen environment that they wanted, the big problem about locking themselves in their metaphorical castle is that they no longer engage with the rest of the server. The distance of the Underdark from the frequently inhabited server areas contributes to this. The Drow are not included in server-wide plots because they do not want to be or lack that connection to hear about it. They do not engage with other factions for long because its “anathema” to their menzoberanzen themed vision. This lack of external stimuli immediately creates stagnation. In order to alleviate that stagnation, the community has several times in the past resorted to three prominent strategies: alternate characters, turning upon each other or becoming reliant on the DM team to provide that stimuli.


Alternate characters I do not need to expand upon: it gives them that connection with the wider server and detracts from them fully contributing to the Underdark setting. Kind of a catch 22 situation.


Conflict RP is good when utilised in the right context: it is a motivating factor in some respects, provided that it is brief so as to not identify the lack of permadeath on Amia. The drive behind conflict RP though is that you have to have something to conflict over: when the Drow playerbase has locked themselves in their own metaphorical castle away from the rest of the server, they eventually exhaust the resources and assets worth fighting over which then contributes to stagnant stalemates. The player-requested DM/developer interventions actually form a double edged sword in this respect: in order to keep everyone else out, it also limits what everyone inside can claim. The vicious, spiteful nature of the Drow is also taxing on the player as well as the character and its very easy to blur the lines between IC feuds and OOC feuds. I've seen some excellent OOC feuds in my time dealing with the Drow community. This then leads into the second strategy, by involving the DM team directly.


Again, as I mentioned before, the Underdark is a niche setting: this applies for DMs too. Most DMs dislike dealing with the setting, others dislike dealing with the underdark playerbase for their own reasons. This narrows the candidates down to a select few, and firstly I must acknowledge their time, passion and efforts in doing so. Having been in said shoes myself, I can say with experience that it is not an easy job to stimulate a playerbase to move forward because if left to their own devices, they turn upon one another. The only problem in doing so is that eventually the self-isolated playerbase becomes dependent upon the DM to provide that stimulus and when the DM can't (real life matters, writer's block, burn out due to IC or OOC factors, changes in availability, the playerbase being in a different timezone etc), things fall to pieces and stagnate very quickly as demonstrated in Ultrinnan, Edonil and now recently Nec'Perya..


So, what to take from this is that the Drow community shouldn't necessarily be seen as a victim. They are and always have been their own worst enemy. What they were doing, just like in the past was not effectively working and that resulted in them stagnating. Some of that is due to factors beyond their ability to influence, however most of it was in their ability to control. They didn't have to isolate themselves. They didn't have to rely on a DM to push them forward. They didn't have to re-introduce all of the sub-factions to a thinly stretched playerbase which I intentionally simplified and streamlined. They chose to walk into the same trap as their predecessors and it didn't work out like their predecessors.


I applaud those who saw the opportunity in such and decided to make something of it. I am keen to see where they go with it in all honesty.


Take what you will from what I have said. I simply trust that it is taken objectively and learnt from so as to not repeat all of it again for the fifth time.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

The Drow have never been their own worst enemy, in fact arguably for years the only thing that kept Drow RP going was self sustained RP due to being FORCED onto B away from population bases and left with month long waits on simple tasks.

You blame the Drow community for your own precieved failings, despite the fact that you make several rather untrue statements on some of the history here.

Ultrinnan had 7 active house factions before the Drow were put through what was pretty obviously a rather railroaded event to destroy that City in order to put Drow on B due to server caps at the time.

So the DM team really that actively made the choice to ostracize the Drow base by tossing them on the far less populated server in a more remote UD locale (That I for the record vehemently opposed and was told essentially that I was causing shit) , then set them on "build a city" RP for years with promises of updating as the players worked for it, only to never really follow through with many buildings and works never put in at all.

Further I personally resent any comment on Qos'yutsu having myself actually been both a player and even faction mod it is blatently false and does a discredit to players I personally knew. Vehdra brought the house itself to Edonil however it was lead with various players being more active leaders at different times. Further Qos had what I consider one of the most RP encouraging faction areas that Ive ever seen in my time on Amia, since we specifically had 95% of it as an open to the public Bar or Club.


Nec was only the isiolationist little cove it is purely out of response to Ultrinnan and Edonil essentially being railroaded city loss events, a bad choice but a logical one at the time given how all the effort building Edonil was rendered pointless.

Further the Vanguard was its own failure in terms of killing a lot of RP by trying to force it into a singular command structure. The idea of unifying more to increase RP was a fine one but doing so just created essentially a central Drow Faction above the houses really and killed the inter drow side of things to a large extent which would have been fine if there was something to unify against but as there wasnt it just collapsed a significantly important RP avenue.

Why are we still talking about this

Just play the game

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Osiris Masud

i think what they brought up is valid and perhaps can help curry some more interest in drow.

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Iman Emanni: Learned, wanderer, dangerous
Jurl Blackskull: Why people fear the underdark.

Or..bring up more interest in curry. Tim or otherwise.

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Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased

Can we throw bread in this thread?

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Osiris Masud

As amusing as this whole thread is...

Having been on both sides of similar events in the past, it is the way things work out with factions. Part of the responsibility of having a faction is keeping the activity and interest up. As soon as activity drops off, you should be ready to defend it or loose it, either through an opposing faction or players leaving and not coming back. If you leave your car in South Central LA with the keys inside, don't expect it to still be there six months later.

Sure it sucks for the players who invested time and effort into Edonil, er Necperya, but when very few people are out and about and nothing really seems to be happening, its your own damn fault for letting it slip away.

All that said, I did notice this comment and it aroused my curiosity:



At what point were the NPC Spider Guard increased in capability? As far as I know, they were only level 5 after more than 8 months of training and equipping at considerable cost t several PC's. I know this because they still had less than 50hp last time I killed them all.

I don't really expect an answer as I don't have a vested interest since it would be a moot point anyway. I'm one of those people who have limited amounts of time to invest in places like Amia and have a difficult time apportioning that time when there is no clear ratio of work verses reward. It is something that has always bugged me in the past to be told by a DM that it happens when it happens, then see another faction spring up and in some cases overnight, have an enormous amount of new toys while your own faction sees almost no progress to their own works. Having perhaps a more detailed timescale of expectations and progress would be of great benefit rather than be in the position of waiting until everyone else in the faction wanders off and have that faction taken away in some form.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

They were like level 30, had Chaos Shields, undead traits and immunity to heal/mass heal, and seemed to have good AC and AB and HP but I don't remember.

Actually the HP was at least a few hundred I remember.

They also had really good saves.

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Osiris Masud

They been juicing. Switch to the Ada'vrae fitness plan and you too can punch above your weight in the PC ring.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

omg dying

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Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers

LOL, that makes sense. But really, if all I had to do was get another faction to wipe out the city it would have saved a ton of gathering and RP.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

If you're going to beat this dead horse anymore how about you log in once in a while?

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Don't be ridiculous Bob. #KeepAmiaStagnant crew has a point: why should things change just because we have the ability and drive to change them?

#KeepTheStatusQuo

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Osiris Masud

Actually I'm intending to do just that. However I have very limited amounts of time to devote to the game. I would like to save myself from repeating past mistakes and actually have fun on occasion. But if you're just going to be salty and be somewhat less constructive in helping avoid past problems with both players and DM's, what is there then to recommend players coming to Amia?

The original point was just something I noticed that happened in my time away and not having the opportunity to comment on it at the time. It may be a dead horse, but it shows that at some point I failed and now that I'm considering a return, would like to succeed instead. Finding out what I can do and actually get accomplished would be of immense help to me.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

I regret my earlier posts dragging my feet into the sand, admittedly. I like the idea of changing the status quo, so bravo for doing something daring. And further, I apologize if my posts came off as if I 'ragequit' or something; but really, it seems the community took people's opinions and twisted them into more butthurt than it really was. All in all, I'm rather pleased; it wrapped up several story lines so everyone could move forward, wherever that forward is. I think it's probably time to let this topic die, though, since it's unfortunately rather negative and I'm not sure anything productive can come out of it that hasn't already (the new rebirth of Nec'perya!)

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

If you're looking for how to make an impact and have fun, you have to do one of two things USUALLY.

1. Be super active and form a compelling faction, and follow through on it. Don't flake out. This is hard to do! I've tried to start factions numerous times and I can't do it.

2. Join a faction that has a leader with the qualities of point #1, above. Be semi-active and useful to the faction's plots and goals.

Those are the two ways I've always had of having fun and making an impact of any kind.

The third option is to be a renegade who does something so awesome that people just want your input on stuff, and you don't have to be part of a faction, but you have to be actually noteworthy IC and also have compelling RP, and be semi-active. I haven't really done this much. My noteworthy characters were all either members of larger factions when they became well-known, or one of them started his own faction and became semi-infamous (Kaelthas) before I simply got bored of playing a pale master. He was kind of fun though.



Just some rough suggestions if that's the kind of stuff you were looking for.


As far as what you can accomplish in total? I think the fact this thread exists shows that if you have enough determined players who will rally behind a leader, you can do almost anything.

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Osiris Masud

Thank you Misterlich, that is the sort of thing I was looking to see and I appreciate it.

While people can and should regret the words they use at times, they should never regret feeling a certain way. Threads like this one are beneficial over the long run, as most people will find the need to vent about something at one time or another.

It doesn't matter if you personally feel the posters in a thread like this have valid points or not, you cannot have a community unless there is communication between the members of it. By implying that a subject is beating a dead horse is a clever way of saying that someone has an opinion that is shit and should just shut up. It's not nice and stifles communication and growth as a community. I'd much rather see more constructive conversation and perhaps some compromise so that fewer people that play on Amia would feel as if they have been taken advantage of in some way, real or not.

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Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.

-Krrja

I'm just very jaded about human beings and do not particularly care about people's feelings anymore. This is why I don't take this kind of topic, or the "is Amia slow?" topic well. Such things have been said before, it always boils down to people saying other people are cramping their style and should bend over for them because they're special snowflakes... I just don't have time for people's feelings unless they just want simple advice that I can actually give them.

I realize that's a horrible quality which borders on misanthropy, but c'est la vie.

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Osiris Masud

Sorry to hear that, MisterLich. I know it won't be long before you find hope again, I won't claim to know you, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders!

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

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Success is a stale finale.

Said someone who's doing stupid things on forum and continually disturbs others fun IG in most childish ways... So do not tell us how we've hurt your feelings, now.

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Reynard d'Aubernon - Retired
Balaeyi Elandinai Haeren - Active
Jaezred Kilr'ae - Active

*Grabs popcorn*
Tis gunna be gud.

Someone should just post a link to this thread in the "is it just me or is amia quiet?" thread.

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Osiris Masud